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1st December 2012, 05:16 AM | #521 |
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1st December 2012, 05:58 AM | #522 |
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1st December 2012, 10:45 AM | #523 |
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No no no, you've got it all backwards. Morality does apply to God's own actions, in that "whatever God does is moral" is encoded into morality. He's not above the rules, he just has a hardcoded exemption written into them.
God therefore can't do immoral things at all, because "whatever God does is moral." |
1st December 2012, 11:04 AM | #524 |
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1st December 2012, 11:27 AM | #525 |
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That's an interesting idea; I'll have to think about that.
My current understanding is that, no, morality applies to God as well. For instance, were God to lie or to express malice or dehumanize, it would still be just as wrong even though it's God doing it. The rules are the rules. Of course, what throws people off are the things God has the right to do because He's God but we as human individuals don't have the right to do, like determine the circumstances of peoples' deaths (including bringing about those deaths). As He explains in Job, He did put the world in motion and He does run it, and just as He had the right and ability to bring us into the world, He also has the right and ability to take us out of it -- a right which he does not generally give humans with respect to each other, except in particular cases (government, war). |
1st December 2012, 12:10 PM | #526 |
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1st December 2012, 12:13 PM | #527 |
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1st December 2012, 12:43 PM | #528 |
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Human beings generally live under the principle that what I create, be it a computer or a sculpture or a house, I have control over and the right to destroy. But human beings do not (at least not yet) create life in the same way that I build a house.
The Bible is very clear that it is God, not man, that originates the ability to make babies. We allow babies to grow inside of us, but we no more "create" a human life by fertilizing an ovum than we "create" a plant by burying a seed. The creative force is God's, and He reserves the right to decide under what conditions it is appropriate for life to end. |
1st December 2012, 06:13 PM | #529 |
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1st December 2012, 06:34 PM | #530 |
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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1st December 2012, 06:43 PM | #531 |
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1st December 2012, 06:48 PM | #532 |
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1st December 2012, 06:50 PM | #533 |
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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1st December 2012, 06:54 PM | #534 |
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1st December 2012, 06:54 PM | #535 |
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1st December 2012, 07:00 PM | #536 |
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Oh, no. Not at all. You did not say those things directly. You simply tried to dance around them.
Nope. Read the entire thread. Ever dance with the devil in the pale moon light? I see you dancing, avoiding, dodging. Revelations 9:11. Reveal me. |
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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1st December 2012, 07:00 PM | #537 |
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1st December 2012, 07:02 PM | #538 |
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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1st December 2012, 07:04 PM | #539 |
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Ok, how many of you are pretending that Avalon's god exists just to try and get a straight answer for once?
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1st December 2012, 07:05 PM | #540 |
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I believe that The Tooth Fairy is an immoral character who promotes avarice amongst the young. Shall we pretend that The Tooth Fairy exists so we can have a discussion?
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1st December 2012, 07:06 PM | #541 |
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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1st December 2012, 07:09 PM | #542 |
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1st December 2012, 07:12 PM | #543 |
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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1st December 2012, 07:21 PM | #544 |
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1st December 2012, 07:25 PM | #545 |
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Let's try a different tack. I agree that god exists but he can't be moral because he gives children cancer. And that's not the only evil thing that he does.
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1st December 2012, 07:28 PM | #546 |
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1st December 2012, 07:30 PM | #547 |
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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1st December 2012, 07:35 PM | #548 |
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1st December 2012, 07:42 PM | #549 |
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1st December 2012, 07:45 PM | #550 |
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1st December 2012, 07:45 PM | #551 |
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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1st December 2012, 07:47 PM | #552 |
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Anybody who accuses me of not knowing the Bible clearly doesn't know what they're talking about.
Article I, Section 8, Paragraph 6 |
1st December 2012, 07:49 PM | #553 |
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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1st December 2012, 07:56 PM | #554 |
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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1st December 2012, 08:03 PM | #555 |
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You claim to be a figurative entity in a prophetic vision - particularly the angel of the Fifth Seal?
Sorry, but believing the Bible doesn't mean that I believe all ancillary claims about the Bible, particularly when it comes to prophetic visions and entities that probably aren't real. But what does that have to do about morality and a higher power? Hamlet Act 4, Scene 7 |
1st December 2012, 08:08 PM | #556 |
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1st December 2012, 08:46 PM | #557 |
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Taken on its face…the OP is indisputable. There cannot but exist a higher authority. David Fincher put it best:
“ You’re in charge…you’re not in control. Anyone who thinks they’re in control is nuts. “ Nobody here with an atom of intelligence can accurately conclude that they created themselves …or whatever it is that enables them to come to any conclusion at all. There does not exist anything remotely resembling an explanation for our abilities…or who we are, what we are, or this place we all inhabit. Calling it ‘God’ is as reasonable as anything…considering the dimensions of ‘it’ all…not to mention the unavoidable fact that ‘it’ creates us (and is us). Quite obviously, ‘it’ exists. ‘It’ is, by default, a ‘higher authority’ (since we are created by ‘it’, not the other way around). Again…nobody with an atom of intelligence would insist that right and wrong do not exist (anyone disagree????...raise your paw)…and since we cannot take credit for creating anything (except, perhaps, stupidity)…they (right and wrong) must, by default, be a function of this ‘higher authority’. Always amusing to hear so many complaining that there is no evidence that God exists. Provide evidence that you have the ability to accurately adjudicate such evidence. What would be required to accurately adjudicate the existence of a God? Successful completion of elementary school? Twenty twenty vision? An IQ of 120? Being a vegetarian? A PhD in physics? Emotional maturity? A really really really really really really really really big telescope? …and while we’re on the subject…what would actually constitute evidence of a God? And there is lots of evidence that God exists, but that’s a derail and God knows I wouldn’t want to be guilty of a derail. So…to summarize…there is a higher authority (by default)…there is right and wrong (unless you’re stupid)…we didn’t create right and wrong…so dear old Occam would have that it’s a function of the higher authority. The venerable Sam Harris would prefer to assign its origins to bubbling bits of brain but seeing as how no-one has a clue how bubbling bits of brain produce us we must, by default, defer to the ‘higher authority’ conclusion…cause that’s exactly what it (what creates us) is. |
1st December 2012, 09:25 PM | #558 |
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That's an awful lot of words just to say you believe some higher authority exists and is the source of morality. But nowhere in there have you offered more than a declaration of faith, a misunderstanding of Occam's razor, a rather severe misunderstanding of the null hypothesis, a heaping helping of gibberish, several unsupported assertions, a couple of childish insults, and some arguments from incredulity and ignorance. The result? Complete failure. |
1st December 2012, 10:05 PM | #559 |
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Not even wrong. It’s got less than nothing to do with belief. You didn’t create you…and you don’t create you. Beginning, middle, and end of story. Nobody on this planet knows what did or does… including you. What you (and every one of us) has been described as is ‘the most complex object in the known universe’ (Scott Heutel…director of cognitive science…Duke University). And that’s just the human brain…that doesn’t even begin to estimate the all-but incomprehensible mystery and complexity of the psychology / being / consciousness that this brain somehow supports (described [by Dennet] as 'the last remaining mystery'). That is you. It’s a fact. Deny it all you like…changes nothing. You can’t claim to even begin to begin to remotely understand it all….let alone create such a thing. That is what is in ‘control’. You are the result of all that. It’s a ‘higher power’ by any understanding those words could possibly have. (there are those...such as my pet gerbil...that do not possess the capacity to appreciate the inevitability of this conclusion). The only real (and unanswerable) question is...how much higher? When you can accurately claim to understand and create you…you can accurately dismiss the existence of a higher power. Until then…read what Fincher said. |
1st December 2012, 10:23 PM | #560 |
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That's another argument from incredulity and ignorance. Of course it isn't any more compelling than your previous screed. Just a bit of helpful advice, you be doing yourself a favor if you become familiar with those particular logical fallacies and avoid using them. And if you're having other problems picking up on this critical thinking stuff, just ask. |
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