ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Non-USA & General Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Australia elections , Australia politics , Julie Bishop , Malcolm Turnbull , Peter Dutton , Scott Morrison

Reply
Old 27th March 2020, 12:46 AM   #2281
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 24,638
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
This is just a "misery loves company" post.
What a dick comment. I'm not even slightly miserable about it - I'm keeping myself and my family safe and both mine and my wife's jobs are working from home. Effect on me to date = zero.

This is about knowing how races work, having been involved with racing for 40 years, whereas you clearly have no idea, as amplified by the idiotic comment below.

Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
There are no trackside crowds at the races so what are you worried about? Do you think that the jockeys will get too close to each other during a race?
The jockeys are less than three feet apart in the stalls, where they can be waiting for up to five minutes. Handlers have to leg jockeys up, starting assistants have to lead horses with jockeys aboard, as well as hold heads in the starting stalls, which means they will be less than 2 feet face to face with the jockey.

These things are completely unavoidable - you can't run races without those things taking place. Trainers also give verbal instructions to jockeys, and you can bet they won't be standing back and shouting for all the other jockeys & trainers to hear.

When a jockey returns to scale, he/she hands the non-weighed gear to a handler, then stands on scales being checked by an official standing well within 2 metres. Horse's reins must be physically handed to another person - racehorses are not the most obedient animals and won't just stand there.

It is impossible to conduct racing and maintain safe distancing.
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th March 2020, 06:04 PM   #2282
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 45,076
Morrison must genuinely think that Australians are idiots. He and Hunt have been triumphantly proclaiming that while infections are increasing, it is at a lower rate than a week ago.

This firstly displays an dismal grasp of arithmetic. If 10 more people than yesterday are infected every single day (450, 460, 470, etc) the percentage growth reduces. The appalling consequences of increasing infections doesn’t change one little bit.

Secondly, he thinks people will be satisfied that an astronomic growth rate has been avoided. Anyone who bothers to spend a second or two thinking about this will not be satisfied until infections actually reduce.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 12:25 AM   #2283
rjh01
Gentleman of leisure
Tagger
 
rjh01's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Flying around in the sky
Posts: 25,506
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Morrison must genuinely think that Australians are idiots. He and Hunt have been triumphantly proclaiming that while infections are increasing, it is at a lower rate than a week ago.

This firstly displays an dismal grasp of arithmetic. If 10 more people than yesterday are infected every single day (450, 460, 470, etc) the percentage growth reduces. The appalling consequences of increasing infections doesn’t change one little bit.

Secondly, he thinks people will be satisfied that an astronomic growth rate has been avoided. Anyone who bothers to spend a second or two thinking about this will not be satisfied until infections actually reduce.
I have been looking at the total number of cases in Australia. The % increase over the last two days has gone down from 15-25% daily to to a record low of 7.6% yesterday and 10.8% the day before. This is a sign that the stay at home thing is beginning to work. I want to see it drop to less than 1% for several consecutive days before I will be satisfied that it will work. We will know by the end of the week. Until then it is too early to say much.

Ref: https://www.worldometers.info/corona...try/australia/
__________________
This signature is for rent.
rjh01 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 12:32 AM   #2284
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 45,076
Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
I have been looking at the total number of cases in Australia. The % increase over the last two days has gone down from 15-25% daily to to a record low of 7.6% yesterday and 10.8% the day before. This is a sign that the stay at home thing is beginning to work. I want to see it drop to less than 1% for several consecutive days before I will be satisfied that it will work. We will know by the end of the week. Until then it is too early to say much.

Ref: https://www.worldometers.info/corona...try/australia/
You are missing the point in my opinion. Until the actual number of new infections reduces there is absolutely nothing to celebrate. I want to see no increase in infections at all. Let’s see it stabilise and then reduce. Until then this **** Scomo is talking **** and failing in his role.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 01:46 AM   #2285
rjh01
Gentleman of leisure
Tagger
 
rjh01's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Flying around in the sky
Posts: 25,506
Good news for you lionking, the actual number of new infections has gone down for the last 3 days. The figures are 374, 328, 257. I expect these numbers to continue to get smaller most days until the only new infections are from after 22 March.
__________________
This signature is for rent.
rjh01 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 01:48 AM   #2286
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 45,076
Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Good news for you lionking, the actual number of new infections has gone down for the last 3 days. The figures are 374, 328, 257. I expect these numbers to continue to get smaller most days until the only new infections are from after 22 March.
I hope this trend continues, although 3 days is too small a sample.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 03:35 AM   #2287
novaphile
Quester of Doglets
Moderator
 
novaphile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,503
Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Good news for you lionking, the actual number of new infections has gone down for the last 3 days. The figures are 374, 328, 257. I expect these numbers to continue to get smaller most days until the only new infections are from after 22 March.
Erm... where are you getting these figures from?

I'm seeing:

DateCount
21 Mar 2020
280
22 Mar 2020
478
23 Mar 2020
133
24 Mar 2020
362
25 Mar 2020
320
26 Mar 2020
446
27 Mar 2020
333
28 Mar 2020
497

Yesterday's jump received a lot of media attention.
__________________
We would be better, and braver, to engage in enquiry, rather than indulge in the idle fancy, that we already know -- Plato.
novaphile is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 03:55 AM   #2288
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 15,901
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Morrison must genuinely think that Australians are idiots. He and Hunt have been triumphantly proclaiming that while infections are increasing, it is at a lower rate than a week ago.

This firstly displays an dismal grasp of arithmetic. If 10 more people than yesterday are infected every single day (450, 460, 470, etc) the percentage growth reduces. The appalling consequences of increasing infections doesn’t change one little bit.

Secondly, he thinks people will be satisfied that an astronomic growth rate has been avoided. Anyone who bothers to spend a second or two thinking about this will not be satisfied until infections actually reduce.
A linear increase in infections is a heck of a lot better than an exponential increase (as any maths student will tell you). And that is what we appear to have ATM.

The problem is that just one week isn't a lot of data to go on - especially if we have to regard the 28/3 spike as an outlier.

It is still a hopeful sign but by no means a cause for celebration.
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 04:03 AM   #2289
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 45,076
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
A linear increase in infections is a heck of a lot better than an exponential increase (as any maths student will tell you). And that is what we appear to have ATM.
Oh sure, I get this. But while better it is far from good. Does Scomo get this? Without doubt. But as is his nature he is trying to sell an absolutely ****** situation as something he has under control.

He’s a ******* disgraceful liar, and (yes you don’t agree) in his heart believes his lord will see things through.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 04:06 AM   #2290
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 15,901
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
He’s a ******* disgraceful liar, and (yes you don’t agree) in his heart believes his lord will see things through.
There is no need to gild the lily. We all know how much Scumo can be trusted with the truth.
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 04:10 AM   #2291
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 45,076
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
There is no need to gild the lily. We all know how much Scumo can be trusted with the truth.
What motivates his lying? I at least have a theory.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 06:02 AM   #2292
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 15,901
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
What motivates his lying? I at least have a theory.
Why make up a theory? You can't read his mind and you can't divine his motivations.

It just makes the rest of what you have to say about him seem less credible.
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 01:23 PM   #2293
rjh01
Gentleman of leisure
Tagger
 
rjh01's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Flying around in the sky
Posts: 25,506
Originally Posted by novaphile View Post
Erm... where are you getting these figures from?

I'm seeing:

DateCount
21 Mar 2020
280
22 Mar 2020
478
23 Mar 2020
133
24 Mar 2020
362
25 Mar 2020
320
26 Mar 2020
446
27 Mar 2020
333
28 Mar 2020
497

Yesterday's jump received a lot of media attention.
I am looking at the graph marked Total Coronavirus Cases in Australia

Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Just take the difference between one day and the next and you will end up with my figures. Not sure where you are getting your figures from. But please take a look at them and see if you work out why they are different. Maybe just the definition of day?

Edit. My figures for today will be a reversal of the short trend and be big. The discrepancy is probably just when the day started.
__________________
This signature is for rent.

Last edited by rjh01; Yesterday at 02:45 PM.
rjh01 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 02:50 PM   #2294
Thor 2
Philosopher
 
Thor 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 5,981
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Oh sure, I get this. But while better it is far from good. Does Scomo get this? Without doubt. But as is his nature he is trying to sell an absolutely ****** situation as something he has under control.

He’s a ******* disgraceful liar, and (yes you don’t agree) in his heart believes his lord will see things through.
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
There is no need to gild the lily. We all know how much Scumo can be trusted with the truth.
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
What motivates his lying? I at least have a theory.
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Why make up a theory? You can't read his mind and you can't divine his motivations.

It just makes the rest of what you have to say about him seem less credible.

I could have foretold this reaction of psion's. Soot Morrison is influenced by everything but his religious faith.
__________________
Thinking is a faith hazard.
Thor 2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 12:27 AM   #2295
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 24,826
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Prosperity gospel. If you're more rich, you're more moral.
Not quite. Prosperity gospel says that if you're more moral, you're more rich. Subtle difference.

<snip>

There is a certain unavoidable reciprocity attached.

They can be assured that they must be moral, otherwise they wouldn't be so rich.

The ideology of privilege is in some part based on this belief.
__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."

"Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 12:39 AM   #2296
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 15,901
Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
I could have foretold this reaction of psion's. Soot Morrison is influenced by everything but his religious faith.
Yeah, that's what "You can't read his mind and you can't divine his motivations" means.
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 12:40 AM   #2297
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 15,901
Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
There is a certain unavoidable reciprocity attached.

They can be assured that they must be moral, otherwise they wouldn't be so rich.

The ideology of privilege is in some part based on this belief.
Why is it that whenever religion gets involved, the laws of logic fly out of the window? You are effectively saying that my dog must be a cat otherwise it wouldn't have 4 legs.

P ==> Q does not mean Q ==> P.
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975

Last edited by psionl0; Today at 12:42 AM.
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 12:43 AM   #2298
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 45,076
Bloody broken record. Morrison has himself said that his religion guides his politics. But Morrison’s own words obviously aren’t good enough for psion.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 12:46 AM   #2299
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 15,901
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Bloody broken record. Morrison has himself said that his religion guides his politics. But Morrison’s own words obviously aren’t good enough for psion.
It sure is. Why bother with facts when you can make up your own theories instead?

Scumo is religious? Then lets make up some of the most evil religious beliefs that we can imagine and ascribe them to Scumo.
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 12:59 AM   #2300
fromdownunder
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,559
I know that this might not go down well here. Look - my father was a left wing Labor Senator whose career was ended by Kerr in 1975, and I am my father's son.


But, for today I really believe that ScoMo is just as confused and as uncertain what needs to be done as every other leader on the planet. Political ideologies are no longer relevant, at least they seem to be with Australia's federal and state leaders.



Nobody on the entire planet really has a "how best to deal with this" thing, but many are actually trying and coming up with all sorts of attempts to minimise the potential number of deaths and economic damage. I honestly think that Morrison is one of those who are trying.



That he may not be right is certainly not unique among the 200 world nations. Who here could have done better as opposed to being just an armchair critic?



Norm
__________________
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in Vain


fromdownunder is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 01:51 AM   #2301
EHocking
Philosopher
 
EHocking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,279
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Why is it that whenever religion gets involved, the laws of logic fly out of the window?
I’m sure you meant that to be read differently.
__________________
"A closed mouth gathers no feet"
"Ignorance is a renewable resource" P.J.O'Rourke
"It's all god's handiwork, there's little quality control applied", Fox26 reporter on Texas granite
You can't make up anything anymore. The world itself is a satire. All you're doing is recording it. Art Buchwald

Last edited by EHocking; Today at 01:56 AM.
EHocking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 02:57 AM   #2302
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 90,434
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Not quite. Prosperity gospel says that if you're more moral, you're more rich. Subtle difference.

Again, not quite. If Morrison were a different kind of religious - one that doesn't believe in Prosperity Gospel, then he would probably care more about the poor. If he were Catholic, for example. That doesn't necessarily mean that he would be poor. There are, obviously, plenty of rich Catholics. But charity towards the poor is built in to the Catholic belief system (faith and good works).

But Prosperity Gospel teaches that anyone can become rich just by being more faithful. So if you're not rich, you're just not being faithful enough.

One more disclaimer, because rjh01 is exactly right. We have no evidence that Scott Morrison actually does believe in Prosperity Gospel. He is a member of a church that is frequently linked to Prosperity Gospel, but that is circumstantial evidence at best.

I presume you mean the RCC when you say “catholic”? Just as a reminder for the RCC the poor will always be with us, their doctrine is to celebrate the suffering of the poor. Now you will point out the many good works done by R catholic’s, and yes they do good works but the core doctrine is that suffering brings you closer to god so the poor are blessed by being poor.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 03:06 AM   #2303
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 90,434
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Do you expect horses to be left unattended and die during the lockdown?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...onavirus-scare

If they are struggling to keep the horses the horses can be shot. In good times horse breeders and trainers are not know for their compassion or sentimentally towards their products, well no more than most business owners.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Non-USA & General Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:06 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.