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Old 9th January 2019, 10:01 PM   #401
Norman Alexander
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Shutdown is about to get more real with almost a million workers about to miss a pay-check.
The pressure will now go back on McConnell. The Dems have already put up various bills to get these people paid. It's McConnell currently being the roadblock. But if he organises to let some pass, it will become Trump the roadblock alone. I suspect his brain will snap. Or dissolve. Or something.
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Old 9th January 2019, 11:02 PM   #402
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Shutdown is about to get more real with almost a million workers about to miss a pay-check.
I think the "& Friends" guy/gal who got a job at the Coast Guard could offer some hints. This was real. They actually had up a page for furloughed USCG staff suggesting they should be creative and maybe make money by having a garage sale, becoming a mystery shopper or baby-sitting.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/09/p...les/index.html
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Old 9th January 2019, 11:18 PM   #403
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Working for the Government (an employer that can't go bankrupt) should mean more, not less job safety.
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Old 10th January 2019, 12:00 AM   #404
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Shutdown is about to get more real with almost a million workers about to miss a pay-check.
It will get more real the closer you get to tax day. The Trump administration has claimed that refunds will be paid this year despite the shutdown, but with thousands of IRS workers furloughed, processing of tax returns may be slow. (The government may order IRS workers to return to work despite not getting paid, but in that scenario I can see a lot of them calling in sick.)
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Old 10th January 2019, 03:56 AM   #405
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Has Trump realised what this is going to do to the economy? And who gets blamed for the economy?
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Old 10th January 2019, 05:45 AM   #406
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Has Trump realised what this is going to do to the economy? And who gets blamed for the economy?
Has Trump ever considered the consequences of his actions? If it comes back to bite him he'll just do something even more outrageous until it blows over.
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Old 10th January 2019, 06:05 AM   #407
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Has Trump realised what this is going to do to the economy? And who gets blamed for the economy?
In this case, if things work out badly for Trump, then Trump will do what Trump always does in such a situation:

> Trump will simply blame someone and/or many other people for the screw up in question.

And if things work out well for Trump, then Trump will do what Trump always does in such a situation:

> Trump will simply take all of the credit for the good turn of events.
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Old 10th January 2019, 06:23 AM   #408
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
The pressure will now go back on McConnell. The Dems have already put up various bills to get these people paid. It's McConnell currently being the roadblock. But if he organises to let some pass, it will become Trump the roadblock alone. I suspect his brain will snap. Or dissolve. Or something.
I actually wonder if the end result of this is Trump managing to convince himself that some sort of short term "emergency funding" for specific things (worker pay, etc) is enough of a face save, so he acquiesces to that and then another and we wind up in a new paradigm where there's just a constant fight over every part of the budget, with individual parts of the government getting turned on and off throughout the year.
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Old 10th January 2019, 06:47 AM   #409
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I actually wonder if the end result of this is Trump managing to convince himself that some sort of short term "emergency funding" for specific things (worker pay, etc) is enough of a face save, so he acquiesces to that and then another and we wind up in a new paradigm where there's just a constant fight over every part of the budget, with individual parts of the government getting turned on and off throughout the year.
A sort of flickering state, then.
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Old 10th January 2019, 06:58 AM   #410
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I actually wonder if the end result of this is Trump managing to convince himself that some sort of short term "emergency funding" for specific things (worker pay, etc) is enough of a face save, so he acquiesces to that and then another and we wind up in a new paradigm where there's just a constant fight over every part of the budget, with individual parts of the government getting turned on and off throughout the year.
I think Trump should do two things. Sign the bills necessary to open the government and declare his emergency. It will get slapped down by the courts. But in the meantime he can save a little face and move on from this moment.

Because I saw the little press conference he gave in the oval office yesterday and he sounded more like a moron than he usually does.
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Old 10th January 2019, 07:16 AM   #411
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On a completely unrelated note:
all eight wall prototypes commissioned by DHS, steel and concrete alike, are vulnerable to being breached:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/imm...-sawed-n956856
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Old 10th January 2019, 07:18 AM   #412
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Because I saw the little press conference he gave in the oval office yesterday and he sounded more like a moron than he usually does.
I read several reports that mentioned he seemed to be struggling for breath during his oratorical adventure. I'm wondering if he's having health problems. At his age, weight, and reported dietary habits it doesn't seem like he could physically cope with longterm stress. Perhaps he's headed for a heart attack or stroke. While I don't wish that upon him, I wouldn't be surprised if that will end up being the way out of the current mess.

If I were him I'd fake a health crisis, retire to seclusion for treatment for a few weeks, and let other people undo the situation I made. That way I'd save some face, at least, and garner sympathy. I'd then emerge, subdued but brave, and announce that in light of recent events I'd come to value increased cooperation and hoped we could all work together going forward. When asked about the wall I'd answer that I still thought it was a good idea but perhaps this isn't the right moment.
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Old 10th January 2019, 07:19 AM   #413
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
On a completely unrelated note:
all eight wall prototypes commissioned by DHS, steel and concrete alike, are vulnerable to being breached:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/imm...-sawed-n956856
Of course. No form of security can withstand attack for ever. It is about delaying and causing them to make noise to attract attention. Not exactly something a wall in the middle of nowhere is ever likely to be all that effective at. Simple tools and time will get through any physical security like a wall.

But why should logic enter this thing now?
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Old 10th January 2019, 07:23 AM   #414
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I read several reports that mentioned he seemed to be struggling for breath during his oratorical adventure. I'm wondering if he's having health problems. At his age, weight, and reported dietary habits it doesn't seem like he could physically cope with longterm stress. Perhaps he's headed for a heart attack or stroke. While I don't wish that upon him, I wouldn't be surprised if that will end up being the way out of the current mess.
Nobody can argue that being the President isn't a stressful job, and it is most probably one of those jobs that doesn't get less stressful if you really, really suck at it.

Look at how much even the young and/or better Presidents... just aged during their terms. And Trump did take office as the oldest age ever for a President.

Dude's body has gotta be feeling the strain, no question.
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Old 10th January 2019, 07:23 AM   #415
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I read several reports that mentioned he seemed to be struggling for breath during his oratorical adventure. I'm wondering if he's having health problems.
Impossible. He's the healthiest human to ever live.
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Old 10th January 2019, 07:25 AM   #416
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
A sort of flickering state, then.
Yep.

Like if this one had started as a "Full Shutdown" like the 1995-1996 one, I bet we already be a "partial shutdown" with some funding restored because that seems like less of a "giving in to da libruls."
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Old 10th January 2019, 07:30 AM   #417
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I read several reports that mentioned he seemed to be struggling for breath during his oratorical adventure. I'm wondering if he's having health problems. At his age, weight, and reported dietary habits it doesn't seem like he could physically cope with longterm stress. Perhaps he's headed for a heart attack or stroke. While I don't wish that upon him, I wouldn't be surprised if that will end up being the way out of the current mess.
If only. But I don't think Melania could pull off an Edith Gault. Especially in this day and age.
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Old 10th January 2019, 07:33 AM   #418
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I actually wonder if the end result of this is Trump managing to convince himself that some sort of short term "emergency funding" for specific things (worker pay, etc) is enough of a face save, so he acquiesces to that and then another and we wind up in a new paradigm where there's just a constant fight over every part of the budget, with individual parts of the government getting turned on and off throughout the year.
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
A sort of flickering state, then.
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Yep.

Like if this one had started as a "Full Shutdown" like the 1995-1996 one, I bet we already be a "partial shutdown" with some funding restored because that seems like less of a "giving in to da libruls."
That and just playing around with who is or is not "essential". Some Wildlife Refuges have been re-staffed and opened to allow hunting.

Liberal hike and wander and play and like National Parks, so those stay closed. Conservatives hunt, so that gets to be essential. Just keep the things liberal like closed, but open the things conservatives like.

Such winning.
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Old 10th January 2019, 07:33 AM   #419
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
On a completely unrelated note:
all eight wall prototypes commissioned by DHS, steel and concrete alike, are vulnerable to being breached:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/imm...-sawed-n956856
The picture showing the sawed off steel slats is priceless.

These absurd side plots give me the sense I'm experiencing a vivid dream nightmare, along the lines of a horror/comedy.
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Old 10th January 2019, 07:34 AM   #420
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I actually wonder if that's his goal. Stall like mad, keep everyone focused on something else, keep running up the metaphorical credit card, slap enough primer on everything to hide the rust, until it's close enough to re-election to step down "for his health" without it seeming like quitting and letting the next administration, Democrat or Republican, deal with the fallout.

Maybe. And it fits in with the "Trump never actually expected to win" theory.
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Old 10th January 2019, 07:47 AM   #421
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I actually wonder if that's his goal. Stall like mad, keep everyone focused on something else, keep running up the metaphorical credit card, slap enough primer on everything to hide the rust, until it's close enough to re-election to step down "for his health" without it seeming like quitting and letting the next administration, Democrat or Republican, deal with the fallout.

Maybe. And it fits in with the "Trump never actually expected to win" theory.
How many more times does it need to be said? That is how he's acted his entire life. Everything he's ever done has been one long credit binge. No chance in hell he's stepping down though, but if he loses he'll be happy to move on (to Trump Tower Moscow) and leave someone else holding the bag.
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Old 10th January 2019, 07:49 AM   #422
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I read several reports that mentioned he seemed to be struggling for breath during his oratorical adventure. I'm wondering if he's having health problems. At his age, weight, and reported dietary habits it doesn't seem like he could physically cope with longterm stress. Perhaps he's headed for a heart attack or stroke. While I don't wish that upon him, I wouldn't be surprised if that will end up being the way out of the current mess.

If I were him I'd fake a health crisis, retire to seclusion for treatment for a few weeks, and let other people undo the situation I made. That way I'd save some face, at least, and garner sympathy. I'd then emerge, subdued but brave, and announce that in light of recent events I'd come to value increased cooperation and hoped we could all work together going forward. When asked about the wall I'd answer that I still thought it was a good idea but perhaps this isn't the right moment.
He has to the the best at everything. He's the smartest, he knows the most, etc. He would never admit to a health issue if he actually had one, much less fake one. He already has his doctor issuing fake health reports adding an inch to his height and subtracting a substantial amount from his visible weight to claim to be healthy.
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Old 10th January 2019, 08:09 AM   #423
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The House passes (with all House Democrats and 8 House Republicans voting for) a bill that would restore funding to key government financial services; most notably the IRS and Treasury Department. The White House is expected to veto it.
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Old 10th January 2019, 08:14 AM   #424
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
The House passes (with all House Democrats and 8 House Republicans voting for) a bill that would restore funding to key government financial services; most notably the IRS and Treasury Department. The White House is expected to veto it.
Will he even see it. No way it gets past the turtle.
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Old 10th January 2019, 08:17 AM   #425
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
The House passes (with all House Democrats and 8 House Republicans voting for) a bill that would restore funding to key government financial services; most notably the IRS and Treasury Department. The White House is expected to veto it.
Now you are seeing why so many Republicans in the legislature are so quick and voluminous to support Trump on the shutdown issue.

By having Trump own the shutdown, then the Republicans in the legislature believe that that they are now absolved of any bad stuff that may result from the shutdown. Furthermore, if it turns out that the shutdown actually does result in something good, then they can take credit for supporting Trump all along.
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Old 10th January 2019, 08:20 AM   #426
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
The House passes (with all House Democrats and 8 House Republicans voting for) a bill that would restore funding to key government financial services; most notably the IRS and Treasury Department. The White House is expected to veto it.
IRS and Treasury are parts of the Government that generate more revenue than they require for upkeep - it is pretty insane to have them close down for any reason.
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Old 10th January 2019, 08:24 AM   #427
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
IRS and Treasury are parts of the Government that generate more revenue than they require for upkeep - it is pretty insane to have them close down for any reason.
It is rather like quitting your job to save money on commuting.
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Old 10th January 2019, 09:20 AM   #428
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
IRS and Treasury are parts of the Government that generate more revenue than they require for upkeep - it is pretty insane to have them close down for any reason.
When does funding for White House staff, and Secret Service end?
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Old 10th January 2019, 09:23 AM   #429
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Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
When does funding for White House staff, and Secret Service end?
As far as the Secret Service, it already has.

Trying to find reference for the White House staff, but they belong to so many different departments it's hard to get a solid answer.
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Old 10th January 2019, 10:40 AM   #430
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
As far as the Secret Service, it already has.
On point, from yesterday:
https://twitter.com/KellyO/status/1083107431021006859
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Old 10th January 2019, 11:01 AM   #431
Trebuchet
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Quote:
Congratulations @SpeakerRyan on your retirement. Please take with you the knowledge that when you left, the government was shutdown, an incompetent traitor was president, the country’s debt was higher than its ever been, & you did nothing. You were the worst Speaker in history.
https://twitter.com/CamelotK/status/1078807443227009025
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Old 10th January 2019, 11:09 AM   #432
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Hastert laid a lot of the groundwork for why congress is so dysfunctional and partisan today and was a piece of human excrement on top of that.
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Old 10th January 2019, 11:20 AM   #433
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Ryan failed by everyone's standards, but especially his own when he decided to jettison all his Fiscal Conservatism (which he claimed to value above all else) in order to cut the taxes of the wealthy.
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Old 10th January 2019, 11:32 AM   #434
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I actually wonder if the end result of this is Trump managing to convince himself that some sort of short term "emergency funding" for specific things (worker pay, etc) is enough of a face save, so he acquiesces to that and then another and we wind up in a new paradigm where there's just a constant fight over every part of the budget, with individual parts of the government getting turned on and off throughout the year.
Not necessarily. Courts judge legality with respect to the law and constitution, but cannot substitute their judgement for that of another branch. It does not get to say, "This or that reason for war isn't good enough."

Oh I am sure a lower court will do this -- at least one anti-anti-immigration ruling included the additional "and anyway, their reasoning is not very good."

And given it is (in theory) an emergency, the benefit of the doubt need lie with the emergency.

It's been pointed out imagine it is 2020 or 2024 and President Cortez issues a national emergency over global warming, letting her do an end run around regulatory laws and process to control business.

Be careful what you wish for, Trump supporters and supine Republican congressmen.
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The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales now! More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?
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Old 10th January 2019, 11:34 AM   #435
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Here's a question...

With the shutdown, many workers are furloughed and/or working without pay. Now, since they're laid off they still officially have a job.

What if the shutdown lasts longer and an employee decides to quit so they can find a better job. Is there anything they can do to obtain severance pay? Has anyone ever tried?
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Old 10th January 2019, 11:44 AM   #436
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Sure, they'll get severance pay. When they send aeromail to the Prussian consulate in Siam on the next autogyro. 'Severance pay'? I suppose you'll say 'pension' next!
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Old 10th January 2019, 12:32 PM   #437
Delphic Oracle
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Nobody can argue that being the President isn't a stressful job, and it is most probably one of those jobs that doesn't get less stressful if you really, really suck at it.

Look at how much even the young and/or better Presidents... just aged during their terms. And Trump did take office as the oldest age ever for a President.

Dude's body has gotta be feeling the strain, no question.
On the other hand, most Presidents grapple with a complex reality all day. Trump has "executive time" which involves rage-tweeting while watching FNC.
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Old 10th January 2019, 02:07 PM   #438
Donal
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Looks like some GOP members are starting to consider trying make a deal with the Democrats without the President, floating the idea of offering the Democrats concessions on such long desired political goals as the "Dreamer" Program and H-2B Visas in exchange for funding Trump's wall.

CNN: https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/09/polit...ors/index.html
1) Long term Dreamer protection (possible path to citizenship)

2) Medicare for All

3) protection for Mueller

4) Pence resigns

Those 4 things would be acceptable as a trade off. And it has to be all 4.
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Old 10th January 2019, 02:08 PM   #439
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I think Trump should do two things. Sign the bills necessary to open the government and declare his emergency. It will get slapped down by the courts. But in the meantime he can save a little face and move on from this moment.

Because I saw the little press conference he gave in the oval office yesterday and he sounded more like a moron than he usually does.
Save a little face for whom? Who in the world will say, "Hey everyone maybe Trump's not so bad after all" if he gives in on anything? His base? The Democrats? The media? No.
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Old 10th January 2019, 02:12 PM   #440
Donal
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Sure, they'll get severance pay. When they send aeromail to the Prussian consulate in Siam on the next autogyro. 'Severance pay'? I suppose you'll say 'pension' next!
https://tenor.com/HHet.gif

Last edited by Donal; 10th January 2019 at 02:13 PM.
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