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Old 8th January 2019, 06:55 AM   #321
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Oh with full certainty Trump cares about "the wall" about as much as I care about the stuff in my drain.

And I agree that he's surely going to try to save face by finding a way out of this while still giving the appearance of winning.

Just that the way Trump's mind works, I'd wager what ever he considers "a win" is going to be radically different from what we're thinking.
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Old 8th January 2019, 07:06 AM   #322
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Old 8th January 2019, 07:31 AM   #323
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
I've got my fingers crossed that Trump's little speech-i-poo is "That's it, I'm taking a pension and buggering off to Sochi. Mike Pence will take it from here. See ya, suckers!"
No, President DJT wouldn’t even consider that. He’s more of a “I lost a lot of money being president, so give me a billion dollars and then I’ll resign” kind of guy.

Also, someone needs to explain to him that if $5 billion is allocated for the wall and it doesn’t get built, he doesn’t get to keep the money for himself. That’s been one of his business models for so long that he might think it would work that way here as well.
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Old 8th January 2019, 08:01 AM   #324
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Trump doesn't make money from the Wall, so he doesn't care about the "sell".
But in his mind, in order to survive the next two years, he needs to show Pelosi "who is boss" - if she caves on this, he will be able to make her cave on all other issues, including Impeachment; for Trump, there never can be such a thing as give and take, because that would leave the other side with something he wants for himself.
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Old 8th January 2019, 08:22 AM   #325
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We're building up to Wrestlemania. This whole thing is going to be revealed as one long storyline between Trump and McMahon.

It's going to come to a head at the State of the Union: Unleashed PPV where Trump fights Andy Kaufman, who it will be revealed faked his death and was really Mike Pence this entire time.
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Old 8th January 2019, 08:24 AM   #326
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He wouldn't have to fake his death for that.
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Old 8th January 2019, 03:00 PM   #327
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So, I just had a scary thought: what if starts beating the war drums tonight? He says he won't worry about the wall anymore because we're going to invade Honduras/El Salvador/Venezuela/whoever

This lets him save face and look tough. Shields him from criticism, because if you insult him, now you're not supporting the troops. Can't impeach a war time president, can you? Also, centrists on both sides love war, so they will back him.

Its just too good for him.
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Old 8th January 2019, 03:14 PM   #328
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Trump doesn't make money from the Wall, so he doesn't care about the "sell".
But in his mind, in order to survive the next two years, he needs to show Pelosi "who is boss" - if she caves on this, he will be able to make her cave on all other issues, including Impeachment; for Trump, there never can be such a thing as give and take, because that would leave the other side with something he wants for himself.
Exactly.
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Old 8th January 2019, 03:19 PM   #329
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
No, President DJT wouldn’t even consider that. He’s more of a “I lost a lot of money being president, so give me a billion dollars and then I’ll resign” kind of guy.

Also, someone needs to explain to him that if $5 billion is allocated for the wall and it doesn’t get built, he doesn’t get to keep the money for himself. That’s been one of his business models for so long that he might think it would work that way here as well.
What makes you think Trump has lost a lot of money being President? Do you have his tax returns?
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Old 8th January 2019, 03:28 PM   #330
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
What makes you think Trump has lost a lot of money being President? Do you have his tax returns?
No, but the Dems soon will.
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Old 8th January 2019, 03:46 PM   #331
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
What makes you think Trump has lost a lot of money being President? Do you have his tax returns?
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
No, but the Dems soon will.
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Old 8th January 2019, 04:53 PM   #332
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Trump doesn't care about the wall, he cares about the Manafort case. We need no longer be detained by any discussion of border security. Trump is about to let 800,000 people not get paid to distract from what came out in the Manafort case today. Manafort provided polling data to the Russians. Trump colluded and conspired with the Russians. This shutdown has nothing to do with border security and the Dems need to go for blood now.
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Old 8th January 2019, 04:56 PM   #333
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Trump doesn't care about the wall, he cares about the Manafort case. We need no longer be detained by any discussion of border security. Trump is about to let 800,000 people not get paid to distract from what came out in the Manafort case today. Manafort provided polling data to the Russians. Trump colluded and conspired with the Russians. This shutdown has nothing to do with border security and the Dems need to go for blood now.
As much as I'd like to agree with you on the highlighted part, what was revealed today proves that Manafort colluded with the Russians, not Trump personally.
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Old 8th January 2019, 04:58 PM   #334
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
As much as I'd like to agree with you on the highlighted part, what was revealed today proves that Manafort colluded with the Russians, not Trump personally.
If he didn't he's still vulnerable to it. Does anyone really believe this happened without Trump's direction. Just make the assumption and go with it.
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Old 8th January 2019, 05:04 PM   #335
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
If he didn't he's still vulnerable to it. Does anyone really believe this happened without Trump's direction. Just make the assumption and go with it.
I don't think much of anything happened in his business ( or even now) or during the campaign without his knowledge. But his personal collusion with Russia has not been proved... that we are aware of yet. I'm betting that Mueller has proof of a lot of illegal activity in many areas conducted by Trump.
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Old 8th January 2019, 05:15 PM   #336
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It looks like Senate Democrats threatening to block bills until the shutdown is addressed has finally lured McConnell out of his shell.

Quote:
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell on Monday bashed his Democratic colleagues over the partial government shutdown, and backed up President Donald Trump's call for a wall along the US-Mexico border.

McConnell accused Democrats of indulging in a "partisan tantrum" over the "public interest."

"Walls and barriers are not immoral," McConnell said. "How silly!"

Alluding to the Secure Fence Act of 2006, which was supported by then-Senators Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, McConnell contended Democrats used to support "physical barriers" but are now acting out of "political spite."

"The only things that have changed between then and now are the political wins, and of course the occupant of the White House," McConnell said.
Linky.

McConnell has been shifting responsibility to Trump for the shutdown, probably because he knows it is a losing hand. He's another completely insincere actor. He's back at trying to use Democratic arguments (even the word "tantrum") against them. He has all the power, so he doesn't need to give any justification. But he likes to give trolling ones.
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Old 8th January 2019, 05:16 PM   #337
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I don't think much of anything happened in his business ( or even now) or during the campaign without his knowledge. But his personal collusion with Russia has not been proved... that we are aware of yet. I'm betting that Mueller has proof of a lot of illegal activity in many areas conducted by Trump.
But Manafort's efforts at collusion are coming to light during the shutdown. Trump is vulnerable to the charge regardless of proof. Go ahead and make the charge. You only have to be right until the shutdown ends. The ends justify the means. Something else will come out so no one will care on the off chance you're wrong.
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Old 8th January 2019, 06:34 PM   #338
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I don't agree.

I don't think Trump actually cares about 'the wall'. I do believe he cares way too much about looking weak and foolish.

Too bad for him. That horse has been out of the barn for quite a while.
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Old 8th January 2019, 06:36 PM   #339
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
No, President DJT wouldn’t even consider that. He’s more of a “I lost a lot of money being president, so give me a billion dollars and then I’ll resign” kind of guy.

<snip>

A bargain at twice the price.

Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
What makes you think Trump has lost a lot of money being President? Do you have his tax returns?

I doubt that's what he meant. More like the sort of thing Trump would be liable to say ... and do.
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Old 8th January 2019, 06:44 PM   #340
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
If he didn't he's still vulnerable to it. Does anyone really believe this happened without Trump's direction. Just make the assumption and go with it.

Manafort was just some guy who got coffee. Trump didn't even know his name.
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Old 8th January 2019, 06:51 PM   #341
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The Dem response tonight should open with, "Good evening. I have to admit that I'm not as prepared for this as I might have been because I've spent the latter part of the day reading the latest releases from the Mueller investigation. Damn! That's some bad **** catching up to them..... but on to the dog and pony show. I particularly liked the giraffes in tutus and the constant sniffing,..... "
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Old 8th January 2019, 06:52 PM   #342
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Will he say witch hunt, or no collusion, or fake news? If so, does that necessarily mean he's off script? Or might the script be unhinged?
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Old 8th January 2019, 06:58 PM   #343
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Will he say witch hunt, or no collusion, or fake news? If so, does that necessarily mean he's off script? Or might the script be unhinged?
Sounds like a drinking game.

I'm betting that "crisis" wins for the most overused word.

Crisis: Used six times.

Pretty much what I expected: full of misleading statements, lies, misinformation, and fear mongering. Once again, he is trying to make border security all about the wall/fence as if they are one and the same. They aren't.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 8th January 2019 at 07:09 PM.
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Old 8th January 2019, 07:28 PM   #344
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That came across like Dirty John grift-talking Deb. Oh the sincerity.
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Old 8th January 2019, 07:34 PM   #345
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As expected, 8 minutes of outright lies.
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Old 8th January 2019, 07:44 PM   #346
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I liked Sanders's response more than Pelosi and Schumer's. He highlighted how the shutdown actually happened and the lies Trump was telling. Pelosi and Schumer seemed more conciliatory overall. But it was funny seeing the "facts not feels" script reversed for the left and alt-right.
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Old 8th January 2019, 07:44 PM   #347
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Yawn. Everything he said was predictable.
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Old 8th January 2019, 07:56 PM   #348
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Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
I liked Sanders's response more than Pelosi and Schumer's. He highlighted how the shutdown actually happened and the lies Trump was telling. Pelosi and Schumer seemed more conciliatory overall. But it was funny seeing the "facts not feels" script reversed for the left and alt-right.
Darn! I missed Sanders' reply. I'll have to look that up.
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Old 8th January 2019, 08:08 PM   #349
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I guess the networks will think twice before giving him anything other than an afternoon slot in the future? There was absolutely nothing in that that hasn't been put forth by him and his stalking horses. This is right up there with his other stunts.... using troop addresses to make political speeches, putting the Birther conspiracy to rest while plugging his new hotel, Huckabee-Sanders calling an impromptu presser so Donnie Johnny could bring in some wall supporters...

Wanna bet he tweets about the great ratings it got?
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Old 8th January 2019, 08:12 PM   #350
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So what were we all expecting? An apology for being so awful? A sincere call for reconciliation and togetherness? A brilliant new plan for economic prosperity? A foaming torrent of butter to pour out of his mouth and ears? A Sinead O'Connor moment? An Ashley Simpson moment? A Budd Dwyer moment?
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Old 8th January 2019, 08:21 PM   #351
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
So what were we all expecting? An apology for being so awful? A sincere call for reconciliation and togetherness? A brilliant new plan for economic prosperity? A foaming torrent of butter to pour out of his mouth and ears? A Sinead O'Connor moment? An Ashley Simpson moment? A Budd Dwyer moment?
I've been halfway expecting this every time Trump has opened his mouth:

https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/...xtual-hegemony
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Old 8th January 2019, 08:29 PM   #352
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
So what were we all expecting? An apology for being so awful? A sincere call for reconciliation and togetherness? A brilliant new plan for economic prosperity? A foaming torrent of butter to pour out of his mouth and ears? A Sinead O'Connor moment? An Ashley Simpson moment? A Budd Dwyer moment?
Well, not to support the networks, but their decisions to give Dubya and Trump the air time and not Obama were based on just that unknown. With Dubya you could just wait for him to opine that you can bring home the bacon but you couldn't make it drink. With Trump, there's always a chance that he'll go off script and tell us about how it was he and he alone who solved the problem of the missing strawberries and not "dog face Pelosi".
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Old 8th January 2019, 08:51 PM   #353
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
I guess the networks will think twice before giving him anything other than an afternoon slot in the future?
Probably not. The "liberal" media bends over backwards to give Republican leaders air-time.
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Old 8th January 2019, 09:29 PM   #354
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Trump spewed lies, but so weakly (and with such apparent effort to maintain reading and speaking simultaneously!) that I didn't even get all riled up at it.

I actually did emotionally prepare for the Democrats to somehow own-goal nevertheless. When I realized it was a dual response I shook my head. When I heard "Schumer and Pelosi" I just rolled my eyes. Once the shot came up and they were crammed awkwardly together behind a podium I don't think I had it together enough to even hear what they said, but it seemed rather staid and unremarkable, too.

I remember giggling at Schumer trying his darndest not to lip-read while Pelosi was delivering her part.

But mostly I was consumed with ire at how, yet again, these two won't give a toss to a mid-ranking star. The moment seems more appropriate to, I dunno, maybe someone who could speak from a more recent immigrant family experience.

My overall thought was something like "Even as much of a political junkie as I am, I sit here wondering why in god's name this is on prime-time network tv..."
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Old 8th January 2019, 10:44 PM   #355
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The wall needs to be about 30 miles or so north of Los Angeles. That would be much better, though for different reasons.

It was a poorly delivered speech even for Trump but he painted a pretty accurate picture of the overall situation. Ya I get it that some disagree. I've said my piece on here enough already recently.

Trump should know by now that there is no point in him giving in on anything. Ever. No matter what Trump does, now matter how much he compromises, the Democrats will never hate him any less than they currently do, and the press will continue to crucify him on a daily basis.

If properly played (gigantic IF), this shutdown could be worked to hurt the Dems more than the Repubs. The again things are so polarized - pfft.
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Old 8th January 2019, 11:11 PM   #356
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If you say "never give in to anything", you are saying you support two years of government shutdown and total gridlock?
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Old 8th January 2019, 11:36 PM   #357
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
If properly played (gigantic IF), this shutdown could be worked to hurt the Dems more than the Repubs. The again things are so polarized - pfft.

If properly played?



How about thinking of the millions of people being directly and indirectly hurt and losing money because of this whole situation. It's not just part of a game being played out in Washington. It involves a lot of real people, not political pawns in a chess game, all over the country who, if they are not hurting already, are going to be in a pretty uncomfortable position very shortly.


Do you think that they are just toys to be played with like Trump does?



Norm
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Old 9th January 2019, 12:25 AM   #358
thaiboxerken
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Trump supporters don't have a capacity for empathy or compassion. I was listening to NPR interview a Trump supporting government worker that is not getting paid. He said he would support Trump if he didn't personally suffer the consequence. This is how Trump supporters, and Republicans think.
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Old 9th January 2019, 12:35 AM   #359
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Once again, I wanna hurl my shoe at the screen. Trump pulls out his fake outrage routine with that old saw of demonizing "the other" by recounting 'gory' stories of the rare killing, raping and dismembering of our poor citizens at the hands of those despicable brown invaders. Shades of Julius Streicher and his pornographic, race-baiting rag, The Stormer in '30s Germany.

As I pointed out just a day or so ago, a *far* more horrific crisis is awaiting to tackle with good ol' Yank fratricide resulting from their infantile infatuation with guns. Where's the foam and froth over *that* wrenching trail of tears? For every killing by an illegal there's, what, a hundred--a thousand?--slayings by the good citizens upon their own.

Crisis on the southern border, my ass. And the torrent of bald-faced, easily checked lies upon lies coming out of this Administration! Damn, but I hope this kind of 'governing' never becomes even remotely the norm. I pray the history books will stress forcefully just how despicable in behavior was this White House and the cabal of fellow travelers in the Cabinet and House.
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Old 9th January 2019, 12:36 AM   #360
Tsukasa Buddha
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Trump spewed lies, but so weakly (and with such apparent effort to maintain reading and speaking simultaneously!) that I didn't even get all riled up at it.

I actually did emotionally prepare for the Democrats to somehow own-goal nevertheless. When I realized it was a dual response I shook my head. When I heard "Schumer and Pelosi" I just rolled my eyes. Once the shot came up and they were crammed awkwardly together behind a podium I don't think I had it together enough to even hear what they said, but it seemed rather staid and unremarkable, too.

I remember giggling at Schumer trying his darndest not to lip-read while Pelosi was delivering her part.

But mostly I was consumed with ire at how, yet again, these two won't give a toss to a mid-ranking star. The moment seems more appropriate to, I dunno, maybe someone who could speak from a more recent immigrant family experience.

My overall thought was something like "Even as much of a political junkie as I am, I sit here wondering why in god's name this is on prime-time network tv..."
They completely left the emotional appeal to Trump. Pelosi is a great deal maker and Speaker, but she absolutely can't be a party leader.
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