Criminal Charges Against Trump - Page 14

ponderingturtle · 25th February 2021, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Do we know which reputable banks still deal with his businesses?

Well we know he owes a few hundred million to Deutsche Bank if that counts as reputable.

Random · 25th February 2021, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by Craig4

If the New York Times article is accurate (and it almost certainly is because Trump called it fake news) Trump is pretty ******. The devaluing of properties to show a loss on his taxes and increasing values of the same properties for loans is both tax and bank fraud. Documented crimes are the best crimes.

Not necessarily both tax and bank fraud. He might have reported accurate numbers to the Feds, but not the bank, which would be bank fraud but not tax fraud. He might have reported accurate numbers to the bank, but not the Feds, which would be tax fraud but not bank fraud. Indeed, a Trumpian defense could be made here. "Yes, I committed a felony, but you can't prove which one!"

But, yeah. He cheated on both. Trump is a cheater. Cheaters gonna cheat.

SteveAitch · 25th February 2021, 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B

Martha Stewart also comes to mind.

Not to mention Leona Helmsley.

Fast Eddie B · 25th February 2021, 08:24 AM

News reports are saying Trump’s tax documents were turned over by Lazars.

Crossbow · 25th February 2021, 09:10 AM

Well, ...

Maybe it has finally happened where all can see just what a greedy, corrupt, POS Trump actually is, because a vast amount of Trump documentation has been turned over to the New York investigators.

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/trump...150411162.html

Donald Trump’s Tax Records Finally Turned Over For New York Investigation

Nearly a decade’s worth of former President Donald Trump’s tax documents have been turned over to a New York district attorney’s office, multiple outlets reported Thursday.

The office received millions of pages spanning from January 2011 to August 2019, according to CNN.

...

Paul2 · 25th February 2021, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by Crossbow

Well, ...

Maybe it has finally happened where all can see just what a greedy, corrupt, POS Trump actually is, because a vast amount of Trump documentation has been turned over to the New York investigators.

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/trump...150411162.html

Donald Trump’s Tax Records Finally Turned Over For New York Investigation

Nearly a decade’s worth of former President Donald Trump’s tax documents have been turned over to a New York district attorney’s office, multiple outlets reported Thursday.

The office received millions of pages spanning from January 2011 to August 2019, according to CNN.

...

At least during the grand jury process everything will be secret, and what we eventually find out will be what is revealed during a trial, but IANAL.

Stacyhs · 25th February 2021, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B

Trump has never declared personal bankruptcy. But he has utilized bankruptcy laws four times for various owned businesses.

https://money.cnn.com/2015/08/31/new...mp-bankruptcy/

Personal bankruptcy would be a whole different kettle of fish. If declared, he would need to divest of many personal assets to pay off his creditors. I wonder what a gold toilet brings these days?

He could always sell off Don Jr. and Eric.

Oh. You said 'assets'. Never mind.

slyjoe · 25th February 2021, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B

Trump has never declared personal bankruptcy. But he has utilized bankruptcy laws four times for various owned businesses.

https://money.cnn.com/2015/08/31/new...mp-bankruptcy/

Personal bankruptcy would be a whole different kettle of fish. If declared, he would need to divest of many personal assets to pay off his creditors. I wonder what a gold toilet brings these days?

Slight correction - 6 times

Trump Taj Mahal (1991)
Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino (1992)
Plaza Hotel (1992)
Trump Castle Hotel and Casino (1992)
Trump Hotels and Casino Resorts (2004)
Trump Entertainment Resorts (2009)

Segnosaur · 25th February 2021, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by slyjoe

Quote:

Trump has never declared personal bankruptcy. But he has utilized bankruptcy laws four times for various owned businesses.

Slight correction - 6 times

Trump Taj Mahal (1991)
Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino (1992)
Plaza Hotel (1992)
Trump Castle Hotel and Casino (1992)
Trump Hotels and Casino Resorts (2004)
Trump Entertainment Resorts (2009)

I wonder how people keep thinking it was only 4 bankruptcies. (I have to admit, I have made that mistake myself.)

Is it because people are only thinking of his pre-2000 bankruptcies? (i.e. people started thinking of the bankruptcies earlier and they just didn't change to include new information)

Or is it because people lump several bankruptcies in as one? (I think Trump himself might be responsible for that... supposedly he has lumped several together as one during interviews/debates.)

ponderingturtle · 25th February 2021, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

I wonder how people keep thinking it was only 4 bankruptcies. (I have to admit, I have made that mistake myself.)

Then there are businesses like Trump Airlines that his creditors took away from him and put him on an allowance with out it ever technically declairing bankruptcy.

slyjoe · 25th February 2021, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

I wonder how people keep thinking it was only 4 bankruptcies. (I have to admit, I have made that mistake myself.)

Is it because people are only thinking of his pre-2000 bankruptcies? (i.e. people started thinking of the bankruptcies earlier and they just didn't change to include new information)

Or is it because people lump several bankruptcies in as one? (I think Trump himself might be responsible for that... supposedly he has lumped several together as one during interviews/debates.)

I think it is because there were 4 years where he filed for bankruptcy.

smartcooky · 25th February 2021, 12:08 PM

Want to hit him where it hurts?

Take his golf courses and turn them into public access courses with affordable green-fees

Take his beloved Mar-A-Largo and turn it into a shelter for the homeless.

ponderingturtle · 25th February 2021, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by smartcooky

Want to hit him where it hurts?

Take his golf courses and turn them into public access courses with affordable green-fees

Take his beloved Mar-A-Largo and turn it into a shelter for the homeless.

Oh god how the neighbors would scream from the NIMBYism of the last one.

Fast Eddie B · 25th February 2021, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

I wonder how people keep thinking it was only 4 bankruptcies. (I have to admit, I have made that mistake myself.)

I just got that number from the CNN Business article from 2015 that I linked. Not sure if the error was combining a couple separate bankruptcies into one.

dudalb · 25th February 2021, 02:24 PM

Manhattan DA now has the tax returns.
Let the fun begin...

dudalb · 25th February 2021, 02:25 PM

I still think the ulitmate comment on Trump as a businessman is he went bankrupt running a casino.That takes some doing.

Gord_in_Toronto · 25th February 2021, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

I still think the ulitmate comment on Trump as a businessman is he went bankrupt running a casino.That takes some doing.

And not just once!!

Random · 25th February 2021, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

I still think the ulitmate comment on Trump as a businessman is he went bankrupt running a casino.That takes some doing.

It was really pretty simple. He opened more than one casino in the same city with the obvious hopes of increasing his income. But more people did not come to Atlantic city simply because there were more casinos. Running two casinos on one casino's worth of income will put both of them out of business, and pretty much everyone told him so.

Fast Eddie B · 28th February 2021, 07:34 PM

I just found a great compilation/summary of all the civil and criminal charges and investigations involving Trump:

https://www.justsecurity.org/75032/l...-donald-trump/

Segnosaur · 28th February 2021, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by Random

Quote:

I still think the ulitmate comment on Trump as a businessman is he went bankrupt running a casino.That takes some doing.

It was really pretty simple. He opened more than one casino in the same city with the obvious hopes of increasing his income. But more people did not come to Atlantic city simply because there were more casinos. Running two casinos on one casino's worth of income will put both of them out of business, and pretty much everyone told him so.

Didn't he also make the mistake of taking a casino that largely catered to average/middle class people, and tried to do some rather expensive renovations in a failed attempt to appeal to the wealthy?

Random · 1st March 2021, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Didn't he also make the mistake of taking a casino that largely catered to average/middle class people, and tried to do some rather expensive renovations in a failed attempt to appeal to the wealthy?

Oh yeah, he made a lot of dumb mistakes. But the big one was assuming that the number of people who would travel to Atlantic City to gamble would increase simply because there were more places to gamble. Same problem with a lot of his projects like Trump Jets. Demand does not automatically increase with supply.

eerok · 1st March 2021, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by Random

Oh yeah, he made a lot of dumb mistakes. But the big one was assuming that the number of people who would travel to Atlantic City to gamble would increase simply because there were more places to gamble. Same problem with a lot of his projects like Trump Jets. Demand does not automatically increase with supply.

Let's face it, he was never good at business, only lying and stealing.

Armitage72 · 1st March 2021, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Random

Oh yeah, he made a lot of dumb mistakes. But the big one was assuming that the number of people who would travel to Atlantic City to gamble would increase simply because there were more places to gamble. Same problem with a lot of his projects like Trump Jets. Demand does not automatically increase with supply.

But his name was on them! That should have caused people from around the world to flock to them to bask in the reflected magnificence. Who wouldn't be proud to say that they flew on a Trump plane , stayed at a Trump hotel, or gambled at a Trump casino?

Gord_in_Toronto · 1st March 2021, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by Armitage72

But his name was on them! That should have caused people from around the world to flock to them to bask in the reflected magnificence. Who wouldn't be proud to say that they flew on a Trump plane , stayed at a Trump hotel, or gambled at a Trump casino?

But I would have stayed away from a Trump steak for fear of what it was cut from.

True story -- I actually own a Trump branded shirt. Soon to be available on e-bay.

Belz... · 2nd March 2021, 04:59 AM

Originally Posted by Random

It was really pretty simple. He opened more than one casino in the same city with the obvious hopes of increasing his income. But more people did not come to Atlantic city simply because there were more casinos. Running two casinos on one casino's worth of income will put both of them out of business, and pretty much everyone told him so.

Which just shows how bad of a businessman he is. The grift is his only talent.

MRC_Hans · 2nd March 2021, 06:06 AM

Originally Posted by Random

Oh yeah, he made a lot of dumb mistakes. But the big one was assuming that the number of people who would travel to Atlantic City to gamble would increase simply because there were more places to gamble. Same problem with a lot of his projects like Trump Jets. Demand does not automatically increase with supply.

Which is sort of the basic tenet of business of any kind.

Now, if some city had Casino A, and it made good business, you might want to start a Casino B, to try to grab some of that business. But if you are the one who owns Casino A ...

Hans

Darat · 2nd March 2021, 06:13 AM

Originally Posted by MRC_Hans

Which is sort of the basic tenet of business of any kind.

Now, if some city had Casino A, and it made good business, you might want to start a Casino B, to try to grab some of that business. But if you are the one who owns Casino A ...

Hans

And an owner by raising funds via junk bonds. I do think his casino failure really shows how stupid he is better than any other example. His reasoning went “One casino makes $2 billion so two will make $4 billion and 3 will make $6 billion!”

alfaniner · 2nd March 2021, 07:06 AM

Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto

But I would have stayed away from a Trump steak for fear of what it was cut from.

True story -- I actually own a Trump branded shirt. Soon to be available on e-bay.

I actually bought a MAGA cap, with a plan. The rumors of idiots eating Tide detergent pods were rife around that time, so I blocked out some letters on the slogan so it read "MA - I EAT GAIN" and attached a couple of Gain detergent pods to the bill.

I never had the nerve to wear it in public, though.

MRC_Hans · 2nd March 2021, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

And an owner by raising funds via junk bonds. I do think his casino failure really shows how stupid he is better than any other example. His reasoning went “One casino makes $2 billion so two will make $4 billion and 3 will make $6 billion!”

Well, there can be markets where this is true, but it requires an evolving market, and usually falling prices. Smartphones and personal computers come into mind.

Rather obviously, the time when this could possibly be true for physical casinos is long past. Online gambling, on the other hand ....

Hans

timhau · 2nd March 2021, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto

But I would have stayed away from a Trump steak for fear of what it was cut from.

Just order it the way it's supposed to be ordered (well done, with lots of ketchup) and it doesn't really matter.

ponderingturtle · 2nd March 2021, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by MRC_Hans

Well, there can be markets where this is true, but it requires an evolving market, and usually falling prices. Smartphones and personal computers come into mind.

Rather obviously, the time when this could possibly be true for physical casinos is long past. Online gambling, on the other hand ....

Hans

And thinking that he can attract the whales away from Vegas and other areas to new jersey.

kookbreaker · 2nd March 2021, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Didn't he also make the mistake of taking a casino that largely catered to average/middle class people, and tried to do some rather expensive renovations in a failed attempt to appeal to the wealthy?

Sort of. His second casino was decidedly more “fancy” than his first, and it became his baby, getting all his attention while the older casino started falling apart (despite being a more viable casino in the first place). But it didn’t attract anyone new and the shine started coming off Trump’s star so no big rollers came by either.

smartcooky · 3rd March 2021, 01:19 AM

Looks like the first cab off the rank is about to kick off in GA with the Fulton County DA going to the Grand Jury for document and witness subpoenas in her investigation of Trump's Jan 2 strongarm phone call with GA Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger.

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-...to-grand-jury/

Segnosaur · 5th March 2021, 07:55 AM

(Not sure where this should go... general Trump thread, one of the Capitol Riots threads... thought it best fit in here, since it involves Trump and a legal case.)

NAACP and Democratic congressman to Trump: You got served!
(although I don't think we'll see any sort of dance battle)

From: Yahoo News
Attorneys for Rep. Bennie Thompson (D-MS) and the NAACP have served former President Donald Trump at his Mar-a-Lago club...Thompson and the NAACP filed suit against Trump alleging that his incendiary rhetoric and false claims of a “stolen” election amounted to a conspiracy to interfere with civil rights...The suit names Trump alongside his attorney Rudy Giuliani and the right-wing extremist groups the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers as co-defendants and builds off the 1871 “Ku Klux Klan Act,” which was “intended to protect against conspiracies, through violence and intimidation, that sought to prevent Members of Congress from discharging their official duties,” according to a complaint.

Sadly its only a civil suit, but hey, anything that causes legal headaches for Trump is fine by me. (I recognize that the lawsuit is probably a longshot... issues of free speech and whether the defendants have standing an all.)

Gord_in_Toronto · 5th March 2021, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

(Not sure where this should go... general Trump thread, one of the Capitol Riots threads... thought it best fit in here, since it involves Trump and a legal case.)

NAACP and Democratic congressman to Trump: You got served!
(although I don't think we'll see any sort of dance battle)

From: Yahoo News
Attorneys for Rep. Bennie Thompson (D-MS) and the NAACP have served former President Donald Trump at his Mar-a-Lago club...Thompson and the NAACP filed suit against Trump alleging that his incendiary rhetoric and false claims of a “stolen” election amounted to a conspiracy to interfere with civil rights...The suit names Trump alongside his attorney Rudy Giuliani and the right-wing extremist groups the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers as co-defendants and builds off the 1871 “Ku Klux Klan Act,” which was “intended to protect against conspiracies, through violence and intimidation, that sought to prevent Members of Congress from discharging their official duties,” according to a complaint.

Sadly its only a civil suit, but hey, anything that causes legal headaches for Trump is fine by me. (I recognize that the lawsuit is probably a longshot... issues of free speech and whether the defendants have standing an all.)

I think any number of lawyers will be carefully examining the language of tat act.

Squeegee Beckenheim · 11th March 2021, 08:22 AM

The Georgia DA has brought in a racketeering expert to help with the case against Trump

Racketeering can carry up to 20 years in prison.

Segnosaur · 11th March 2021, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim

The Georgia DA has brought in a racketeering expert to help with the case against Trump

And speaking of the legal case against Trump in Georgia...

From: NPR
In a newly revealed phone call, former President Donald Trump asked a Georgia law enforcement official to find evidence of fraud with absentee-by-mail ballots, the latest revelation in his unsuccessful attempt to overturn the state's election results. "Whatever you can do, Frances, it would be — it's a great thing," Trump said to Georgia Secretary of State chief investigator Frances Watson.

That Trump called other officials in Georgia (apart from Raffensperger) is no big surprise. And given how... bad... the Raffensperger recording made Trump look, I'm not sure if this particular call makes that much difference. Still, more evidence is not a bad thing, and knowing that there are even more Georgia election officials that Trump tried to manipulate might mean more chance that Trump will be convicted.

ponderingturtle · 11th March 2021, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

And speaking of the legal case against Trump in Georgia...

From: NPR
In a newly revealed phone call, former President Donald Trump asked a Georgia law enforcement official to find evidence of fraud with absentee-by-mail ballots, the latest revelation in his unsuccessful attempt to overturn the state's election results. "Whatever you can do, Frances, it would be — it's a great thing," Trump said to Georgia Secretary of State chief investigator Frances Watson.

That Trump called other officials in Georgia (apart from Raffensperger) is no big surprise. And given how... bad... the Raffensperger recording made Trump look, I'm not sure if this particular call makes that much difference. Still, more evidence is not a bad thing, and knowing that there are even more Georgia election officials that Trump tried to manipulate might mean more chance that Trump will be convicted.

Did it make him look bad in a way that changed anyone's opinion on him though? That is just Trump being Trump it makes no difference.

Segnosaur · 11th March 2021, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

Quote:

That Trump called other officials in Georgia (apart from Raffensperger) is no big surprise. And given how... bad... the Raffensperger recording made Trump look, I'm not sure if this particular call makes that much difference. Still, more evidence is not a bad thing, and knowing that there are even more Georgia election officials that Trump tried to manipulate might mean more chance that Trump will be convicted.

Did it make him look bad in a way that changed anyone's opinion on him though? That is just Trump being Trump it makes no difference.

It is less important how it looks to the average Georgia MAGAchud than how it looks to the individuals who will be prosecuting the case and sitting on the jury. From what I understand, the charges are being brought in Fulton County, which voted overwhelmingly for Biden in the last election (>70%), so it might be easier to get a jury willing to convict.

SteveAitch · 11th March 2021, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

It is less important how it looks to the average Georgia MAGAchud than how it looks to the individuals who will be prosecuting the case and sitting on the jury. From what I understand, the charges are being brought in Fulton County, which voted overwhelmingly for Biden in the last election (>70%), so it might be easier to get a jury willing to convict.

In that case can't he/his lawyers demand(?) that the case should be held somewhere else as the whole county is biased against him* and he won't get a fair trial? And if that fails and he is found guilty, appeal on the grounds that a fair trial was not possible? And generally drag things out for as long as possible?

* Though this would go against his stolen votes idea and probably count against him re the dodgy phone-call.

25th February 2021, 07:57 AM	#521
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 52,943	Originally Posted by Darat Do we know which reputable banks still deal with his businesses? Well we know he owes a few hundred million to Deutsche Bank if that counts as reputable.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

25th February 2021, 08:09 AM	#522
Random Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 3,567	Originally Posted by Craig4 If the New York Times article is accurate (and it almost certainly is because Trump called it fake news) Trump is pretty ******. The devaluing of properties to show a loss on his taxes and increasing values of the same properties for loans is both tax and bank fraud. Documented crimes are the best crimes. Not necessarily both tax and bank fraud. He might have reported accurate numbers to the Feds, but not the bank, which would be bank fraud but not tax fraud. He might have reported accurate numbers to the bank, but not the Feds, which would be tax fraud but not bank fraud. Indeed, a Trumpian defense could be made here. "Yes, I committed a felony, but you can't prove which one!" But, yeah. He cheated on both. Trump is a cheater. Cheaters gonna cheat.
Random Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 3,567	__________________ The road to Fascism is paved with people saying, "You're overreacting!". Last edited by Random; 25th February 2021 at 08:11 AM.

25th February 2021, 08:21 AM	#523
SteveAitch Muse Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: St Aines Posts: 752	Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B Martha Stewart also comes to mind. Not to mention Leona Helmsley.
	__________________ If this board is too exciting for you, try my Flickr pages. Warning: may cause narcolepsy! Some people call me 'strange'. I prefer 'unconventional'. But I'm willing to compromise and accept 'eccentric'...

25th February 2021, 09:10 AM	#525
Crossbow Seeking Honesty and Sanity Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Charleston, WV Posts: 14,419	Well, ... Maybe it has finally happened where all can see just what a greedy, corrupt, POS Trump actually is, because a vast amount of Trump documentation has been turned over to the New York investigators. https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/trump...150411162.html Donald Trump’s Tax Records Finally Turned Over For New York Investigation Nearly a decade’s worth of former President Donald Trump’s tax documents have been turned over to a New York district attorney’s office, multiple outlets reported Thursday. The office received millions of pages spanning from January 2011 to August 2019, according to CNN. ...
	__________________ On 29JUL2022, 'Gaetan' said: "We all know here that the moderators are for the use of firearms and they don't mind if some people recieve a bullet in their head." A man's best friend is his dogma.

25th February 2021, 09:38 AM	#526
Paul2 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,728	Originally Posted by Crossbow Well, ... Maybe it has finally happened where all can see just what a greedy, corrupt, POS Trump actually is, because a vast amount of Trump documentation has been turned over to the New York investigators. https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/trump...150411162.html Donald Trump’s Tax Records Finally Turned Over For New York Investigation Nearly a decade’s worth of former President Donald Trump’s tax documents have been turned over to a New York district attorney’s office, multiple outlets reported Thursday. The office received millions of pages spanning from January 2011 to August 2019, according to CNN. ... At least during the grand jury process everything will be secret, and what we eventually find out will be what is revealed during a trial, but IANAL.
Paul2 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,728	__________________ It's nice to be nice to the nice. Aristotle, so far as I know, was the first man to proclaim explicitly that man is a rational animal. His reason for this view was one which does not now seem very impressive: it was, that some people can do sums. - Bertrand Russell

25th February 2021, 08:24 AM	#524
Fast Eddie B Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Lenoir City, TN/Mineral Bluff, GA Posts: 7,473	News reports are saying Trump’s tax documents were turned over by Lazars.

25th February 2021, 10:15 AM	#527
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 29,332	Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B Trump has never declared personal bankruptcy. But he has utilized bankruptcy laws four times for various owned businesses. https://money.cnn.com/2015/08/31/new...mp-bankruptcy/ Personal bankruptcy would be a whole different kettle of fish. If declared, he would need to divest of many personal assets to pay off his creditors. I wonder what a gold toilet brings these days? He could always sell off Don Jr. and Eric. Oh. You said 'assets'. Never mind.

25th February 2021, 11:09 AM	#528
slyjoe Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Near Harmonica Virgins, AZ Posts: 3,445	Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B Trump has never declared personal bankruptcy. But he has utilized bankruptcy laws four times for various owned businesses. https://money.cnn.com/2015/08/31/new...mp-bankruptcy/ Personal bankruptcy would be a whole different kettle of fish. If declared, he would need to divest of many personal assets to pay off his creditors. I wonder what a gold toilet brings these days? Slight correction - 6 times Trump Taj Mahal (1991) Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino (1992) Plaza Hotel (1992) Trump Castle Hotel and Casino (1992) Trump Hotels and Casino Resorts (2004) Trump Entertainment Resorts (2009)
	__________________ "You have done nothing to demonstrate an understanding of scientific methodology or modern skepticism, both of which are, by necessity, driven by the facts and evidence, not by preconceptions, and both of which are strengthened by, and rely upon, change." - Arkan Wolfshade

25th February 2021, 11:48 AM	#529
Segnosaur Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 19,656	Originally Posted by slyjoe Quote: Trump has never declared personal bankruptcy. But he has utilized bankruptcy laws four times for various owned businesses. Slight correction - 6 times Trump Taj Mahal (1991) Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino (1992) Plaza Hotel (1992) Trump Castle Hotel and Casino (1992) Trump Hotels and Casino Resorts (2004) Trump Entertainment Resorts (2009) I wonder how people keep thinking it was only 4 bankruptcies. (I have to admit, I have made that mistake myself.) Is it because people are only thinking of his pre-2000 bankruptcies? (i.e. people started thinking of the bankruptcies earlier and they just didn't change to include new information) Or is it because people lump several bankruptcies in as one? (I think Trump himself might be responsible for that... supposedly he has lumped several together as one during interviews/debates.)
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppins Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot

25th February 2021, 11:54 AM	#530
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 52,943	Originally Posted by Segnosaur I wonder how people keep thinking it was only 4 bankruptcies. (I have to admit, I have made that mistake myself.) Then there are businesses like Trump Airlines that his creditors took away from him and put him on an allowance with out it ever technically declairing bankruptcy.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

25th February 2021, 11:54 AM	#531
slyjoe Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Near Harmonica Virgins, AZ Posts: 3,445	Originally Posted by Segnosaur I wonder how people keep thinking it was only 4 bankruptcies. (I have to admit, I have made that mistake myself.) Is it because people are only thinking of his pre-2000 bankruptcies? (i.e. people started thinking of the bankruptcies earlier and they just didn't change to include new information) Or is it because people lump several bankruptcies in as one? (I think Trump himself might be responsible for that... supposedly he has lumped several together as one during interviews/debates.) I think it is because there were 4 years where he filed for bankruptcy.
	__________________ "You have done nothing to demonstrate an understanding of scientific methodology or modern skepticism, both of which are, by necessity, driven by the facts and evidence, not by preconceptions, and both of which are strengthened by, and rely upon, change." - Arkan Wolfshade

25th February 2021, 12:08 PM	#532
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 23,089	Want to hit him where it hurts? Take his golf courses and turn them into public access courses with affordable green-fees Take his beloved Mar-A-Largo and turn it into a shelter for the homeless.
	__________________ What is Woke? It is a term that means "awakened to the needs of others". It means to be well-informed, thoughtful, compassionate, humble and kind. Woke people are keen to make the world a better, fairer place for everyone, But, unfortunately, it has also become a pejorative used by racists, homophobes and misogynists on the political right, to describe people who possess a fully functional moral compass. Last edited by smartcooky; 25th February 2021 at 12:10 PM.

25th February 2021, 12:17 PM	#533
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 52,943	Originally Posted by smartcooky Want to hit him where it hurts? Take his golf courses and turn them into public access courses with affordable green-fees Take his beloved Mar-A-Largo and turn it into a shelter for the homeless. Oh god how the neighbors would scream from the NIMBYism of the last one.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

25th February 2021, 01:24 PM	#534
Fast Eddie B Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Lenoir City, TN/Mineral Bluff, GA Posts: 7,473	Originally Posted by Segnosaur I wonder how people keep thinking it was only 4 bankruptcies. (I have to admit, I have made that mistake myself.) I just got that number from the CNN Business article from 2015 that I linked. Not sure if the error was combining a couple separate bankruptcies into one.

25th February 2021, 02:24 PM	#535
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 57,715	Manhattan DA now has the tax returns. Let the fun begin...
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

25th February 2021, 02:25 PM	#536
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 57,715	I still think the ulitmate comment on Trump as a businessman is he went bankrupt running a casino.That takes some doing.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

25th February 2021, 02:31 PM	#537
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 23,487	Originally Posted by dudalb I still think the ulitmate comment on Trump as a businessman is he went bankrupt running a casino.That takes some doing. And not just once!!
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

25th February 2021, 02:37 PM	#538
Random Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 3,567	Originally Posted by dudalb I still think the ulitmate comment on Trump as a businessman is he went bankrupt running a casino.That takes some doing. It was really pretty simple. He opened more than one casino in the same city with the obvious hopes of increasing his income. But more people did not come to Atlantic city simply because there were more casinos. Running two casinos on one casino's worth of income will put both of them out of business, and pretty much everyone told him so.
Random Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 3,567	__________________ The road to Fascism is paved with people saying, "You're overreacting!".

28th February 2021, 07:34 PM	#539
Fast Eddie B Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Lenoir City, TN/Mineral Bluff, GA Posts: 7,473	I just found a great compilation/summary of all the civil and criminal charges and investigations involving Trump: https://www.justsecurity.org/75032/l...-donald-trump/

28th February 2021, 07:42 PM	#540
Segnosaur Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 19,656	Originally Posted by Random Quote: I still think the ulitmate comment on Trump as a businessman is he went bankrupt running a casino.That takes some doing. It was really pretty simple. He opened more than one casino in the same city with the obvious hopes of increasing his income. But more people did not come to Atlantic city simply because there were more casinos. Running two casinos on one casino's worth of income will put both of them out of business, and pretty much everyone told him so. Didn't he also make the mistake of taking a casino that largely catered to average/middle class people, and tried to do some rather expensive renovations in a failed attempt to appeal to the wealthy?
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1st March 2021, 09:04 AM	#541
Random Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 3,567	Originally Posted by Segnosaur Didn't he also make the mistake of taking a casino that largely catered to average/middle class people, and tried to do some rather expensive renovations in a failed attempt to appeal to the wealthy? Oh yeah, he made a lot of dumb mistakes. But the big one was assuming that the number of people who would travel to Atlantic City to gamble would increase simply because there were more places to gamble. Same problem with a lot of his projects like Trump Jets. Demand does not automatically increase with supply.
Random Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 3,567	__________________ The road to Fascism is paved with people saying, "You're overreacting!".

1st March 2021, 12:56 PM	#542
eerok Quixoticist Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: ON Canada Posts: 5,378	Originally Posted by Random Oh yeah, he made a lot of dumb mistakes. But the big one was assuming that the number of people who would travel to Atlantic City to gamble would increase simply because there were more places to gamble. Same problem with a lot of his projects like Trump Jets. Demand does not automatically increase with supply. Let's face it, he was never good at business, only lying and stealing.
	__________________ "Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

1st March 2021, 01:34 PM	#543
Armitage72 Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 7,651	Originally Posted by Random Oh yeah, he made a lot of dumb mistakes. But the big one was assuming that the number of people who would travel to Atlantic City to gamble would increase simply because there were more places to gamble. Same problem with a lot of his projects like Trump Jets. Demand does not automatically increase with supply. But his name was on them! That should have caused people from around the world to flock to them to bask in the reflected magnificence. Who wouldn't be proud to say that they flew on a Trump plane , stayed at a Trump hotel, or gambled at a Trump casino?

1st March 2021, 04:52 PM	#544
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 23,487	Originally Posted by Armitage72 But his name was on them! That should have caused people from around the world to flock to them to bask in the reflected magnificence. Who wouldn't be proud to say that they flew on a Trump plane , stayed at a Trump hotel, or gambled at a Trump casino? But I would have stayed away from a Trump steak for fear of what it was cut from. True story -- I actually own a Trump branded shirt. Soon to be available on e-bay.
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

2nd March 2021, 04:59 AM	#545
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a post-fact world Posts: 96,875	Originally Posted by Random It was really pretty simple. He opened more than one casino in the same city with the obvious hopes of increasing his income. But more people did not come to Atlantic city simply because there were more casinos. Running two casinos on one casino's worth of income will put both of them out of business, and pretty much everyone told him so. Which just shows how bad of a businessman he is. The grift is his only talent.
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2nd March 2021, 06:06 AM	#546
MRC_Hans Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 24,379	Originally Posted by Random Oh yeah, he made a lot of dumb mistakes. But the big one was assuming that the number of people who would travel to Atlantic City to gamble would increase simply because there were more places to gamble. Same problem with a lot of his projects like Trump Jets. Demand does not automatically increase with supply. Which is sort of the basic tenet of business of any kind. Now, if some city had Casino A, and it made good business, you might want to start a Casino B, to try to grab some of that business. But if you are the one who owns Casino A ... Hans
	__________________ Experience is an excellent teacher, but she sends large bills.

2nd March 2021, 06:13 AM	#547
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 108,048	Originally Posted by MRC_Hans Which is sort of the basic tenet of business of any kind. Now, if some city had Casino A, and it made good business, you might want to start a Casino B, to try to grab some of that business. But if you are the one who owns Casino A ... Hans And an owner by raising funds via junk bonds. I do think his casino failure really shows how stupid he is better than any other example. His reasoning went “One casino makes $2 billion so two will make $4 billion and 3 will make $6 billion!”
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2nd March 2021, 07:06 AM	#548
alfaniner Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Sorth Dakonsin Posts: 27,587	Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto But I would have stayed away from a Trump steak for fear of what it was cut from. True story -- I actually own a Trump branded shirt. Soon to be available on e-bay. I actually bought a MAGA cap, with a plan. The rumors of idiots eating Tide detergent pods were rife around that time, so I blocked out some letters on the slogan so it read "MA - I EAT GAIN" and attached a couple of Gain detergent pods to the bill. I never had the nerve to wear it in public, though.
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2nd March 2021, 07:44 AM	#549
MRC_Hans Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 24,379	Originally Posted by Darat And an owner by raising funds via junk bonds. I do think his casino failure really shows how stupid he is better than any other example. His reasoning went “One casino makes $2 billion so two will make $4 billion and 3 will make $6 billion!” Well, there can be markets where this is true, but it requires an evolving market, and usually falling prices. Smartphones and personal computers come into mind. Rather obviously, the time when this could possibly be true for physical casinos is long past. Online gambling, on the other hand .... Hans
	__________________ Experience is an excellent teacher, but she sends large bills.

2nd March 2021, 07:54 AM	#550
timhau NWO Litter Technician Join Date: May 2004 Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I? Posts: 15,105	Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto But I would have stayed away from a Trump steak for fear of what it was cut from. Just order it the way it's supposed to be ordered (well done, with lots of ketchup) and it doesn't really matter.
	__________________ When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips

2nd March 2021, 09:16 AM	#551
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 52,943	Originally Posted by MRC_Hans Well, there can be markets where this is true, but it requires an evolving market, and usually falling prices. Smartphones and personal computers come into mind. Rather obviously, the time when this could possibly be true for physical casinos is long past. Online gambling, on the other hand .... Hans And thinking that he can attract the whales away from Vegas and other areas to new jersey.
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2nd March 2021, 09:41 AM	#552
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 14,384	Originally Posted by Segnosaur Didn't he also make the mistake of taking a casino that largely catered to average/middle class people, and tried to do some rather expensive renovations in a failed attempt to appeal to the wealthy? Sort of. His second casino was decidedly more “fancy” than his first, and it became his baby, getting all his attention while the older casino started falling apart (despite being a more viable casino in the first place). But it didn’t attract anyone new and the shine started coming off Trump’s star so no big rollers came by either.
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3rd March 2021, 01:19 AM	#553
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 23,089	Looks like the first cab off the rank is about to kick off in GA with the Fulton County DA going to the Grand Jury for document and witness subpoenas in her investigation of Trump's Jan 2 strongarm phone call with GA Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger. https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-...to-grand-jury/
	__________________ What is Woke? It is a term that means "awakened to the needs of others". It means to be well-informed, thoughtful, compassionate, humble and kind. Woke people are keen to make the world a better, fairer place for everyone, But, unfortunately, it has also become a pejorative used by racists, homophobes and misogynists on the political right, to describe people who possess a fully functional moral compass. Last edited by smartcooky; 3rd March 2021 at 01:50 AM.

5th March 2021, 07:55 AM	#554
Segnosaur Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 19,656	(Not sure where this should go... general Trump thread, one of the Capitol Riots threads... thought it best fit in here, since it involves Trump and a legal case.) NAACP and Democratic congressman to Trump: You got served! (although I don't think we'll see any sort of dance battle) From: Yahoo News Attorneys for Rep. Bennie Thompson (D-MS) and the NAACP have served former President Donald Trump at his Mar-a-Lago club...Thompson and the NAACP filed suit against Trump alleging that his incendiary rhetoric and false claims of a “stolen” election amounted to a conspiracy to interfere with civil rights...The suit names Trump alongside his attorney Rudy Giuliani and the right-wing extremist groups the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers as co-defendants and builds off the 1871 “Ku Klux Klan Act,” which was “intended to protect against conspiracies, through violence and intimidation, that sought to prevent Members of Congress from discharging their official duties,” according to a complaint. Sadly its only a civil suit, but hey, anything that causes legal headaches for Trump is fine by me. (I recognize that the lawsuit is probably a longshot... issues of free speech and whether the defendants have standing an all.)
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppins Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot

5th March 2021, 09:09 AM	#555
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 23,487	Originally Posted by Segnosaur (Not sure where this should go... general Trump thread, one of the Capitol Riots threads... thought it best fit in here, since it involves Trump and a legal case.) NAACP and Democratic congressman to Trump: You got served! (although I don't think we'll see any sort of dance battle) From: Yahoo News Attorneys for Rep. Bennie Thompson (D-MS) and the NAACP have served former President Donald Trump at his Mar-a-Lago club...Thompson and the NAACP filed suit against Trump alleging that his incendiary rhetoric and false claims of a “stolen” election amounted to a conspiracy to interfere with civil rights...The suit names Trump alongside his attorney Rudy Giuliani and the right-wing extremist groups the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers as co-defendants and builds off the 1871 “Ku Klux Klan Act,” which was “intended to protect against conspiracies, through violence and intimidation, that sought to prevent Members of Congress from discharging their official duties,” according to a complaint. Sadly its only a civil suit, but hey, anything that causes legal headaches for Trump is fine by me. (I recognize that the lawsuit is probably a longshot... issues of free speech and whether the defendants have standing an all.) I think any number of lawyers will be carefully examining the language of tat act.
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick