Can the Dems retain the House Speaker??! - Page 14

Norman Alexander · 8th January 2023, 03:51 PM

We can speculate all we want. In fact, the Terrible Twenty think they now have control over Congress. They think they can "block" all sorts of legislation the GOP puts up, because it will be "too woke" or "not Trumpy-fascist enough".

Fact is, the Congress now has effectively three parties, not two. The smallest is the Terrible Twenty. And the largest is the Democrats! So the Dems effectively hold the whip hand now, not the Terrible Twenty. If the more sensible Republicans negotiate normally and in good faith with the Dems rather than trying to placate the Terrible Twenty, they will actually get government stuff done. The Terrible Twenty will simply get sidelined.

Mike! · 8th January 2023, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

We can speculate all we want. In fact, the Terrible Twenty think they now have control over Congress. They think they can "block" all sorts of legislation the GOP puts up, because it will be "too woke" or "not Trumpy-fascist enough".

Fact is, the Congress now has effectively three parties, not two. The smallest is the Terrible Twenty. And the largest is the Democrats! So the Dems effectively hold the whip hand now, not the Terrible Twenty. If the more sensible Republicans negotiate normally and in good faith with the Dems rather than trying to placate the Terrible Twenty, they will actually get government stuff done. The Terrible Twenty will simply get sidelined.

Hopefully this is the actual result of this fiasco.

Trebuchet · 8th January 2023, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

We can speculate all we want. In fact, the Terrible Twenty think they now have control over Congress. They think they can "block" all sorts of legislation the GOP puts up, because it will be "too woke" or "not Trumpy-fascist enough".

Fact is, the Congress now has effectively three parties, not two. The smallest is the Terrible Twenty. And the largest is the Democrats! So the Dems effectively hold the whip hand now, not the Terrible Twenty. If the more sensible Republicans negotiate normally and in good faith with the Dems rather than trying to placate the Terrible Twenty, they will actually get government stuff done. The Terrible Twenty will simply get sidelined.

You are hoplessly optimistic, but I'll forgive you because you aren't American. McCarthy will do everything the extremists want, because he's terrified of them. If MTG says "jump" he'll ask how high on the way up.

Stacyhs · 8th January 2023, 06:03 PM

There's tons of speculation about how McCarthy will handle the House. Personally, I think he'll be as spineless and as much an ass kisser as he's always been, but we'll just have to wait and see. It won't be long before we know.

Tero · 8th January 2023, 06:33 PM

Absolutely nothing will be passed. The insurrectionists will get the Hunter Biden Investigation. Budgets will be hard to pass.

So just coast on to the election. "Republicans are not doing anything, because they think government is bad. That is why things are bad now. Vote for us in 2024, we will fix this. And forget Trump, he never fixed things well, other than paying for the vaccine, which Joe then got in your hands."

a_unique_person · 8th January 2023, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by smartcooky

Well congratulations to the GQP. You now have a puppet speaker - a puppet of the Fascist Caucus of your party. Kevin McKiss-Arse will be the US equivalent of Marshall Petain.

We'll now have to call your party the "Vichy GOP"

Don't confuse McCarthy with someone who is reasonable and practical. He's just not as insane as the most insane.

acbytesla · 8th January 2023, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

You are hoplessly optimistic, but I'll forgive you because you aren't American. McCarthy will do everything the extremists want, because he's terrified of them. If MTG says "jump" he'll ask how high on the way up.

I don't know what he will do and neither does anyone else. I am not optimistic, but I am also not going to start shouting "the sky is falling either." McCarthy doesn't have a huge majority to play with so I'm not so sure he's going to tear everything down like the nutsos want him to do.

acbytesla · 8th January 2023, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by a_unique_person

Don't confuse McCarthy with someone who is reasonable and practical. He's just not as insane as the most insane.

Actually I think he is very practical. My issue with him is that he is devoid of principles.

Norman Alexander · 8th January 2023, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

You are hoplessly optimistic, but I'll forgive you because you aren't American. McCarthy will do everything the extremists want, because he's terrified of them. If MTG says "jump" he'll ask how high on the way up.

As soon as Kevin realises he can do better deals with the Dems and get a semblance of his desired legislation actually passed, he is spineless and craven enough to do exactly that and renege on everything he promised the Terrible Twenty. No matter how much they terrify him.

And I think they don't terrify him, actually. He may be extreme, but not insanely so. He superpower is flipping. And that's what he will do if there is an easier way out. Especially if it is a way out that does not endanger his Speaker role which he craves, which the Terrible Twenty have already threatened. Dealing with the Dems, giving them some of what they want, is a much surer way to keep his treasured gavel than trying to deal in any way with the busted-clockwork and rancid-fluff-for-brains nitwits on his side of the House.

SteveAitch · 8th January 2023, 11:33 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Which 'ring'?

The one to rule them all?

dudalb · 9th January 2023, 04:26 PM

How long until McCarthy gets challenges for his speakership? I give it one month.

Doubt · 9th January 2023, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

How long until McCarthy gets challenges for his speakership? I give it one month.

We will see if the House can pass a rules package tonight. If not, then some of McCarthy's deals that got him the chair will fall apart.

Norman Alexander · 9th January 2023, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

How long until McCarthy gets challenges for his speakership? I give it one month.

Well, you're optimistic!

I'd give it about 48 hours, when the new "rules package" flies into the dirt.

newyorkguy · 9th January 2023, 05:17 PM

A Democratic member of the House, Jim McGovern of Massachusetts, said the other day, if McCarthy wins the speakership, "his nightmares just begin." Why did McGovern say that?

Quote:

During the previous Congress, an internal GOP policy required a majority of the party’s membership to agree to pursue a motion to vacate [the chair] — a fairly high bar. After Republicans secured control of the House in the 2022 midterm elections, McCarthy agreed to a much lower threshold, just five members. And after failing to win the speakership two days in a row, McCarthy made a concession to the GOP bloc opposing him: In the next Congress, any single member could offer a motion to vacate [the speakership], news outlets reported. Austin TX American-Statesman news link

McGovern is right, now that McCarthy has won the speakership, his -- and the American people's -- nightmare is just beginning. Any single member can stop the session and bog down the entire House by introducing a motion to vacate the Speaker's Chair. Thereby forcing four hundred and thirty-odd representatives to have to vote one-by-one during a roll call.

Any single member.

Norman Alexander · 9th January 2023, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

A Democratic member of the House, Jim McGovern of Massachusetts, said the other day, if McCarthy wins the speakership, "his nightmares just begin." Why did McGovern say that?

McGovern is right, now that McCarthy has won the speakership, his -- and the American people's -- nightmare is just beginning. Any single member can stop the session and bog down the entire House by introducing a motion to vacate the Speaker's Chair. Thereby forcing four hundred and thirty-odd representatives to have to vote one-by-one during a roll call.

Any single member.

Including Democrats.

Want to see any of their nasty legislation hit the ground and burn?

"The Member for BlahBlahBlah has the floor."

"Mr Speaker! I rise to put the motion that the position of Speaker of this House be vacated immediately and a new Speaker be elected according to the House Rules."

*chaos and hilarity ensues*

dudalb · 9th January 2023, 05:57 PM

RUles package passed. let the fun begin...
I am reading a lot of the deals McCarthy made are not in the rules package.
His life will be a living hell.

Norman Alexander · 9th January 2023, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

RUles package passed. let the fun begin...
I am reading a lot of the deals McCarthy made are not in the rules package.
His life will be a living hell.

What WAS included?

dudalb · 9th January 2023, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

A Democratic member of the House, Jim McGovern of Massachusetts, said the other day, if McCarthy wins the speakership, "his nightmares just begin." Why did McGovern say that?

McGovern is right, now that McCarthy has won the speakership, his -- and the American people's -- nightmare is just beginning. Any single member can stop the session and bog down the entire House by introducing a motion to vacate the Speaker's Chair. Thereby forcing four hundred and thirty-odd representatives to have to vote one-by-one during a roll call.

Any single member.

It's ridiculousl. You know some members will do it just to get time on TV.

ZiprHead · 9th January 2023, 06:09 PM

dudalb · 9th January 2023, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

What WAS included?

Should be easy to finedon the Internet.

Norman Alexander · 9th January 2023, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Should be easy to find on the Internet.

So far I can only find that it squeaked through, and contained the infamous "one member" rule. Can't find any other details yet. Congressional record??

Segnosaur · 9th January 2023, 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Quote:

McGovern is right, now that McCarthy has won the speakership, his -- and the American people's -- nightmare is just beginning. Any single member can stop the session and bog down the entire House by introducing a motion to vacate the Speaker's Chair.

Including Democrats.

I have to admit, I am surprised the Republicans did not put some sort of stipulation in there... such as "a single member can call for a vote to dismiss a speaker, but only if they are from the party that has the majority". (Which in this case would be the republicans.)

Norman Alexander · 9th January 2023, 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Should be easy to finedon the Internet.

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

So far I can only find that it squeaked through, and contained the infamous "one member" rule. Can't find any other details yet. Congressional record??

Here 'tis.

https://rules.house.gov/sites/republ...ves-SxS-V2.pdf

Susheel · 9th January 2023, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Resolution Declaring the Office of Speaker Vacant. Subsection (q)
strikes language from rule IX to allow any member to offer a privileged resolution
declaring the Office of Speaker vacant.

I don't think the Repubs thought this through...

Norman Alexander · 10th January 2023, 01:38 AM

Originally Posted by Susheel

I don't think the Repubs thought this through...

Ya think?

Armitage72 · 10th January 2023, 04:17 AM

Originally Posted by Susheel

I don't think the Repubs thought this through...

It's like when Republican state legislatures approved the use of state vouchers for religious schools and were horrified when Muslim schools applied.
"We only meant for it to apply to us!!"

Donal · 10th January 2023, 06:51 AM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

I have to admit, I am surprised the Republicans did not put some sort of stipulation in there... such as "a single member can call for a vote to dismiss a speaker, but only if they are from the party that has the majority". (Which in this case would be the republicans.)

For the same reason McConnell doesn't call for the filibuster to be abolished. The Democrats don't weaponize procedure the way Republicans do. This is asymmetrical. Republicans win when Congress does nothing.

Donal · 10th January 2023, 06:53 AM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

As soon as Kevin realises he can do better deals with the Dems and get a semblance of his desired legislation actually passed, he is spineless and craven enough to do exactly that and renege on everything he promised the Terrible Twenty. No matter how much they terrify him.

And I think they don't terrify him, actually. He may be extreme, but not insanely so. He superpower is flipping. And that's what he will do if there is an easier way out. Especially if it is a way out that does not endanger his Speaker role which he craves, which the Terrible Twenty have already threatened. Dealing with the Dems, giving them some of what they want, is a much surer way to keep his treasured gavel than trying to deal in any way with the busted-clockwork and rancid-fluff-for-brains nitwits on his side of the House.

There is no ideological divide between McCarthy and the lunatics who blocked him.

There are also no consequences for screwing over the Democrats. If he pisses off the right-wingers in Congress, there will be pipe bombs showing up in his mailbox.

TragicMonkey · 10th January 2023, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by Donal

There are also no consequences for screwing over the Democrats. If he pisses off the right-wingers in Congress, there will be pipe bombs showing up in his mailbox.

Ah! Now it makes sense, I've wondered why Republicans have been trying to cripple the postal services for so long.

Suddenly · 10th January 2023, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by Donal

For the same reason McConnell doesn't call for the filibuster to be abolished. The Democrats don't weaponize procedure the way Republicans do. This is asymmetrical. Republicans win when Congress does nothing.

This is all about the next debt ceiling vote. That's the problem.

The Biden administration needs to have a ten trillion dollar coin ready to go and end that insanity for good. Sure, that coinage provision was never really meant to be used that way but the debt ceiling being used to hold the country hostage is way more absurd.

Donal · 10th January 2023, 09:15 AM

All it does is threaten the world economy. And of course, the only things they want to cut are social welfare programs and infrastructure projects. At most, they give lip service to scaling back the military or cutting subsidies for oil and pharma companies.

Norman Alexander · 10th January 2023, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by Donal

There is no ideological divide between McCarthy and the lunatics who blocked him.

Agreed. Just that McCarthy is more educated and less insane.

Quote:

There are also no consequences for screwing over the Democrats.

Except by making deals he can get stuff done.

Quote:

If he pisses off the right-wingers in Congress, there will be pipe bombs showing up in his mailbox.

They already are, in effect. MAGAnuts who hate his guts are still lurking in the background making nasty noises, and real death threats arrive daily for many congress critters. So what is new there?

dudalb · 10th January 2023, 05:50 PM

McCarthy and a number of other Republicans are going to start etting phone calls from the Powers That Be on Wall Street that you really don't want a default to happen. He will then be forced to choose between the big doners and nutwing of the party.
That is what scares me. You can expect some rationality from the CEO's; you can expect none from the MAGA crowd.

acbytesla · 10th January 2023, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by Donal

There is no ideological divide between McCarthy and the lunatics who blocked him.

There are also no consequences for screwing over the Democrats. If he pisses off the right-wingers in Congress, there will be pipe bombs showing up in his mailbox.

Actually, I think there is. McCarthy is a lot like Trump in that he has no principles except to himself. McCarthy isn't really a radical right wingers although he will act like one at times.

angrysoba · 10th January 2023, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by smartcooky

Well congratulations to the GQP. You now have a puppet speaker - a puppet of the Fascist Caucus of your party. Kevin McKiss-Arse will be the US equivalent of Marshall Petain.

We'll now have to call your party the "Vichy GOP"

That's an unfair comparison.... to Pétain!

Say what you like about him in World War Two, he at least showed intelligence and competence in the First World War.

Stacyhs · 10th January 2023, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

That's an unfair comparison.... to Pétain!

Say what you like about him in World War Two, he at least showed intelligence and competence in the First World War.

Fantastic French series that takes place during the occupation of France and Petain/Vichy called a "A French Village". I highly recommend it. Available on Walter Presents on Netflix.

Ok..done with derail.

Norman Alexander · 10th January 2023, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

Actually, I think there is. McCarthy is a lot like Trump in that he has no principles except to himself. McCarthy isn't really a radical right wingers although he will act like one at times.

His superpower is flipping. And you are right - he is like Trump: self-interested. That's why he endured 15 votes of global humiliation just to get a gavel that will ring his political death-knell.

Suddenly · 11th January 2023, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by dudalb

McCarthy and a number of other Republicans are going to start etting phone calls from the Powers That Be on Wall Street that you really don't want a default to happen. He will then be forced to choose between the big doners and nutwing of the party.
That is what scares me. You can expect some rationality from the CEO's; you can expect none from the MAGA crowd.

The ultrawealthy donors are getting to the point where collapse could benefit them. Economic collapse would profit them in the sense that (1) they can buy more stuff and (2) they can fully transition us to a despotic oligarchy.

They will be almost totally insulated from the carnage of all this and they already have all the money. All that is left is to create a power vacuum to fill.

Donal · 11th January 2023, 08:58 AM

I just finished reading Survival of the Richest and this is all I can think about.

Susheel · 11th January 2023, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Except by making deals he can get stuff done.?

Therein lies the rub. Exactly what in their body of work over the past so many years suggests to you that they want anything done?

8th January 2023, 03:51 PM	#521
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,190	We can speculate all we want. In fact, the Terrible Twenty think they now have control over Congress. They think they can "block" all sorts of legislation the GOP puts up, because it will be "too woke" or "not Trumpy-fascist enough". Fact is, the Congress now has effectively three parties, not two. The smallest is the Terrible Twenty. And the largest is the Democrats! So the Dems effectively hold the whip hand now, not the Terrible Twenty. If the more sensible Republicans negotiate normally and in good faith with the Dems rather than trying to placate the Terrible Twenty, they will actually get government stuff done. The Terrible Twenty will simply get sidelined.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

8th January 2023, 04:00 PM	#522
Mike! Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it! Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not! Posts: 49,362	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander We can speculate all we want. In fact, the Terrible Twenty think they now have control over Congress. They think they can "block" all sorts of legislation the GOP puts up, because it will be "too woke" or "not Trumpy-fascist enough". Fact is, the Congress now has effectively three parties, not two. The smallest is the Terrible Twenty. And the largest is the Democrats! So the Dems effectively hold the whip hand now, not the Terrible Twenty. If the more sensible Republicans negotiate normally and in good faith with the Dems rather than trying to placate the Terrible Twenty, they will actually get government stuff done. The Terrible Twenty will simply get sidelined. Hopefully this is the actual result of this fiasco.
	__________________ "Never judge a man until you’ve walked a mile in his shoes... Because then it won't really matter, you’ll be a mile away and have his shoes."

8th January 2023, 04:27 PM	#523
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 35,974	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander We can speculate all we want. In fact, the Terrible Twenty think they now have control over Congress. They think they can "block" all sorts of legislation the GOP puts up, because it will be "too woke" or "not Trumpy-fascist enough". Fact is, the Congress now has effectively three parties, not two. The smallest is the Terrible Twenty. And the largest is the Democrats! So the Dems effectively hold the whip hand now, not the Terrible Twenty. If the more sensible Republicans negotiate normally and in good faith with the Dems rather than trying to placate the Terrible Twenty, they will actually get government stuff done. The Terrible Twenty will simply get sidelined. You are hoplessly optimistic, but I'll forgive you because you aren't American. McCarthy will do everything the extremists want, because he's terrified of them. If MTG says "jump" he'll ask how high on the way up.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

8th January 2023, 06:33 PM	#525
Tero Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: North American prairie Posts: 3,001	Absolutely nothing will be passed. The insurrectionists will get the Hunter Biden Investigation. Budgets will be hard to pass. So just coast on to the election. "Republicans are not doing anything, because they think government is bad. That is why things are bad now. Vote for us in 2024, we will fix this. And forget Trump, he never fixed things well, other than paying for the vaccine, which Joe then got in your hands."
	__________________ Dominus vo-bisque'em Et cum spear a tu-tu, oh! Politics blog: https://esapolitics.blogspot.com/ Parody: http://karireport.blogspot.com/ Poll: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...proval-rating/

8th January 2023, 06:48 PM	#526
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open. Posts: 45,029	Originally Posted by smartcooky Well congratulations to the GQP. You now have a puppet speaker - a puppet of the Fascist Caucus of your party. Kevin McKiss-Arse will be the US equivalent of Marshall Petain. We'll now have to call your party the "Vichy GOP" Don't confuse McCarthy with someone who is reasonable and practical. He's just not as insane as the most insane.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos

8th January 2023, 06:03 PM	#524
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 29,332	There's tons of speculation about how McCarthy will handle the House. Personally, I think he'll be as spineless and as much an ass kisser as he's always been, but we'll just have to wait and see. It won't be long before we know.

8th January 2023, 06:58 PM	#527
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 31,385	Originally Posted by Trebuchet You are hoplessly optimistic, but I'll forgive you because you aren't American. McCarthy will do everything the extremists want, because he's terrified of them. If MTG says "jump" he'll ask how high on the way up. I don't know what he will do and neither does anyone else. I am not optimistic, but I am also not going to start shouting "the sky is falling either." McCarthy doesn't have a huge majority to play with so I'm not so sure he's going to tear everything down like the nutsos want him to do.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

8th January 2023, 07:01 PM	#528
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 31,385	Originally Posted by a_unique_person Don't confuse McCarthy with someone who is reasonable and practical. He's just not as insane as the most insane. Actually I think he is very practical. My issue with him is that he is devoid of principles.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

8th January 2023, 09:29 PM	#529
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,190	Originally Posted by Trebuchet You are hoplessly optimistic, but I'll forgive you because you aren't American. McCarthy will do everything the extremists want, because he's terrified of them. If MTG says "jump" he'll ask how high on the way up. As soon as Kevin realises he can do better deals with the Dems and get a semblance of his desired legislation actually passed, he is spineless and craven enough to do exactly that and renege on everything he promised the Terrible Twenty. No matter how much they terrify him. And I think they don't terrify him, actually. He may be extreme, but not insanely so. He superpower is flipping. And that's what he will do if there is an easier way out. Especially if it is a way out that does not endanger his Speaker role which he craves, which the Terrible Twenty have already threatened. Dealing with the Dems, giving them some of what they want, is a much surer way to keep his treasured gavel than trying to deal in any way with the busted-clockwork and rancid-fluff-for-brains nitwits on his side of the House.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015} Last edited by Norman Alexander; 8th January 2023 at 09:31 PM.

8th January 2023, 11:33 PM	#530
SteveAitch Muse Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: St Aines Posts: 752	Originally Posted by Stacyhs Which 'ring'? The one to rule them all?
	__________________ If this board is too exciting for you, try my Flickr pages. Warning: may cause narcolepsy! Some people call me 'strange'. I prefer 'unconventional'. But I'm willing to compromise and accept 'eccentric'...

9th January 2023, 04:26 PM	#531
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 57,715	How long until McCarthy gets challenges for his speakership? I give it one month.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

9th January 2023, 04:58 PM	#532
Doubt Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 7,781	Originally Posted by dudalb How long until McCarthy gets challenges for his speakership? I give it one month. We will see if the House can pass a rules package tonight. If not, then some of McCarthy's deals that got him the chair will fall apart.
Doubt Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 7,781	__________________ 45 es un titere

9th January 2023, 05:04 PM	#533
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,190	Originally Posted by dudalb How long until McCarthy gets challenges for his speakership? I give it one month. Well, you're optimistic! I'd give it about 48 hours, when the new "rules package" flies into the dirt.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

9th January 2023, 05:50 PM	#535
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,190	Originally Posted by newyorkguy A Democratic member of the House, Jim McGovern of Massachusetts, said the other day, if McCarthy wins the speakership, "his nightmares just begin." Why did McGovern say that? McGovern is right, now that McCarthy has won the speakership, his -- and the American people's -- nightmare is just beginning. Any single member can stop the session and bog down the entire House by introducing a motion to vacate the Speaker's Chair. Thereby forcing four hundred and thirty-odd representatives to have to vote one-by-one during a roll call. Any single member. Including Democrats. Want to see any of their nasty legislation hit the ground and burn? "The Member for BlahBlahBlah has the floor." "Mr Speaker! I rise to put the motion that the position of Speaker of this House be vacated immediately and a new Speaker be elected according to the House Rules." chaos and hilarity ensues
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

9th January 2023, 05:57 PM	#536
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 57,715	RUles package passed. let the fun begin... I am reading a lot of the deals McCarthy made are not in the rules package. His life will be a living hell.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

9th January 2023, 06:00 PM	#537
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,190	Originally Posted by dudalb RUles package passed. let the fun begin... I am reading a lot of the deals McCarthy made are not in the rules package. His life will be a living hell. What WAS included?
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

9th January 2023, 06:00 PM	#538
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 57,715	Originally Posted by newyorkguy A Democratic member of the House, Jim McGovern of Massachusetts, said the other day, if McCarthy wins the speakership, "his nightmares just begin." Why did McGovern say that? McGovern is right, now that McCarthy has won the speakership, his -- and the American people's -- nightmare is just beginning. Any single member can stop the session and bog down the entire House by introducing a motion to vacate the Speaker's Chair. Thereby forcing four hundred and thirty-odd representatives to have to vote one-by-one during a roll call. Any single member. It's ridiculousl. You know some members will do it just to get time on TV.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

9th January 2023, 06:09 PM	#539
ZiprHead Muse Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sag-Nasty Posts: 901
	__________________ When conservatives realize they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will abandon democracy. IIDB is back, baby!

9th January 2023, 07:05 PM	#540
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 57,715	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander What WAS included? Should be easy to finedon the Internet.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

9th January 2023, 07:11 PM	#541
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,190	Originally Posted by dudalb Should be easy to find on the Internet. So far I can only find that it squeaked through, and contained the infamous "one member" rule. Can't find any other details yet. Congressional record??
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

9th January 2023, 09:58 PM	#542
Segnosaur Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 19,656	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander Quote: McGovern is right, now that McCarthy has won the speakership, his -- and the American people's -- nightmare is just beginning. Any single member can stop the session and bog down the entire House by introducing a motion to vacate the Speaker's Chair. Including Democrats. I have to admit, I am surprised the Republicans did not put some sort of stipulation in there... such as "a single member can call for a vote to dismiss a speaker, but only if they are from the party that has the majority". (Which in this case would be the republicans.)
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9th January 2023, 11:10 PM	#543
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,190	Originally Posted by dudalb Should be easy to finedon the Internet. Originally Posted by Norman Alexander So far I can only find that it squeaked through, and contained the infamous "one member" rule. Can't find any other details yet. Congressional record?? Here 'tis. https://rules.house.gov/sites/republ...ves-SxS-V2.pdf
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

9th January 2023, 11:59 PM	#544
Susheel Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Hyderabad, India Posts: 3,085	Quote: Resolution Declaring the Office of Speaker Vacant. Subsection (q) strikes language from rule IX to allow *any member* to offer a privileged resolution declaring the Office of Speaker vacant. I don't think the Repubs thought this through...
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10th January 2023, 01:38 AM	#545
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,190	Originally Posted by Susheel I don't think the Repubs thought this through... Ya think?
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

10th January 2023, 04:17 AM	#546
Armitage72 Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 7,651	Originally Posted by Susheel I don't think the Repubs thought this through... It's like when Republican state legislatures approved the use of state vouchers for religious schools and were horrified when Muslim schools applied. "We only meant for it to apply to us!!"

10th January 2023, 06:51 AM	#547
Donal Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5,285	Originally Posted by Segnosaur I have to admit, I am surprised the Republicans did not put some sort of stipulation in there... such as "a single member can call for a vote to dismiss a speaker, but only if they are from the party that has the majority". (Which in this case would be the republicans.) For the same reason McConnell doesn't call for the filibuster to be abolished. The Democrats don't weaponize procedure the way Republicans do. This is asymmetrical. Republicans win when Congress does nothing.
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10th January 2023, 06:53 AM	#548
Donal Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5,285	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander As soon as Kevin realises he can do better deals with the Dems and get a semblance of his desired legislation actually passed, he is spineless and craven enough to do exactly that and renege on everything he promised the Terrible Twenty. No matter how much they terrify him. And I think they don't terrify him, actually. He may be extreme, but not insanely so. He superpower is flipping. And that's what he will do if there is an easier way out. Especially if it is a way out that does not endanger his Speaker role which he craves, which the Terrible Twenty have already threatened. Dealing with the Dems, giving them some of what they want, is a much surer way to keep his treasured gavel than trying to deal in any way with the busted-clockwork and rancid-fluff-for-brains nitwits on his side of the House. There is no ideological divide between McCarthy and the lunatics who blocked him. There are also no consequences for screwing over the Democrats. If he pisses off the right-wingers in Congress, there will be pipe bombs showing up in his mailbox.
Donal Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5,285	__________________ SuburbanNerd A blog for making tech make sense

10th January 2023, 07:40 AM	#549
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 65,256	Originally Posted by Donal There are also no consequences for screwing over the Democrats. If he pisses off the right-wingers in Congress, there will be pipe bombs showing up in his mailbox. Ah! Now it makes sense, I've wondered why Republicans have been trying to cripple the postal services for so long.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

10th January 2023, 08:22 AM	#550
Suddenly No Punting Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Not In Follansbee Posts: 5,444	Originally Posted by Donal For the same reason McConnell doesn't call for the filibuster to be abolished. The Democrats don't weaponize procedure the way Republicans do. This is asymmetrical. Republicans win when Congress does nothing. This is all about the next debt ceiling vote. That's the problem. The Biden administration needs to have a ten trillion dollar coin ready to go and end that insanity for good. Sure, that coinage provision was never really meant to be used that way but the debt ceiling being used to hold the country hostage is way more absurd.

10th January 2023, 09:15 AM	#551
Donal Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5,285	All it does is threaten the world economy. And of course, the only things they want to cut are social welfare programs and infrastructure projects. At most, they give lip service to scaling back the military or cutting subsidies for oil and pharma companies.
Donal Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5,285	__________________ SuburbanNerd A blog for making tech make sense

10th January 2023, 12:20 PM	#552
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,190	Originally Posted by Donal There is no ideological divide between McCarthy and the lunatics who blocked him. Agreed. Just that McCarthy is more educated and less insane. Quote: There are also no consequences for screwing over the Democrats. Except by making deals he can get stuff done. Quote: If he pisses off the right-wingers in Congress, there will be pipe bombs showing up in his mailbox. They already are, in effect. MAGAnuts who hate his guts are still lurking in the background making nasty noises, and real death threats arrive daily for many congress critters. So what is new there?
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

10th January 2023, 05:50 PM	#553
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 57,715	McCarthy and a number of other Republicans are going to start etting phone calls from the Powers That Be on Wall Street that you really don't want a default to happen. He will then be forced to choose between the big doners and nutwing of the party. That is what scares me. You can expect some rationality from the CEO's; you can expect none from the MAGA crowd.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

10th January 2023, 05:57 PM	#554
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 31,385	Originally Posted by Donal There is no ideological divide between McCarthy and the lunatics who blocked him. There are also no consequences for screwing over the Democrats. If he pisses off the right-wingers in Congress, there will be pipe bombs showing up in his mailbox. Actually, I think there is. McCarthy is a lot like Trump in that he has no principles except to himself. McCarthy isn't really a radical right wingers although he will act like one at times.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

10th January 2023, 06:11 PM	#555
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 33,995	Originally Posted by smartcooky Well congratulations to the GQP. You now have a puppet speaker - a puppet of the Fascist Caucus of your party. Kevin McKiss-Arse will be the US equivalent of Marshall Petain. We'll now have to call your party the "Vichy GOP" That's an unfair comparison.... to Pétain! Say what you like about him in World War Two, he at least showed intelligence and competence in the First World War.
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10th January 2023, 06:38 PM	#556
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 29,332	Originally Posted by angrysoba That's an unfair comparison.... to Pétain! Say what you like about him in World War Two, he at least showed intelligence and competence in the First World War. Fantastic French series that takes place during the occupation of France and Petain/Vichy called a "A French Village". I highly recommend it. Available on Walter Presents on Netflix. Ok..done with derail.