Are You a "Bigot" If You Don't Think Homosexuality Should Be Celebrated?

[Olmstead]

I'd like to see a player argue that they don't like a certain shirt sponsor. I'm sure that will go over well.

Some might choose to die on that hill because the team is sponsored by a mass murdering regime, others because the team speaks out against discrimination and hatred. Heroes all.

[Lukraak_Sisser]

I've never really understood the dislike for non - heterosexuality.

Someones sexual orientation is important at one time only, when you want to sleep with that person.
But gay people can hit a ball with a stick as much as a heterosexual.
So why is it 'against your religion' to show they are welcome to join in? Why would they need to be excluded in the first place?

And they are. Slurs for gay people are used as cuss words to denigrate players who under perform, the suggestion that a player is gay can lead to being excluded and if you're openly gay there are countries where you risk death when you play there.

As for the science. Homosexuality is present in most large mammals that live in groups.
Given that everything else in nature is a spectrum rather than black / white, why would anyone even assume sexuality was the sole exception to that?

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser

I've never really understood the dislike for non - heterosexuality.

Someones sexual orientation is important at one time only, when you want to sleep with that person.
But gay people can hit a ball with a stick as much as a heterosexual.
So why is it 'against your religion' to show they are welcome to join in? Why would they need to be excluded in the first place?

And they are. Slurs for gay people are used as cuss words to denigrate players who under perform, the suggestion that a player is gay can lead to being excluded and if you're openly gay there are countries where you risk death when you play there.

As for the science. Homosexuality is present in most large mammals that live in groups.
Given that everything else in nature is a spectrum rather than black / white, why would anyone even assume sexuality was the sole exception to that?

They find it threatening in some way. It threatens the validity of their religious beliefs: if the Church is wrong about this, what else are they wrong about?Same-sex marriage threatened the special status of 'marriage' and interracial marriage threatened white superiority.
Women voting, having the right to control their own money and having careers outside the home threatened men's power and dominance while some women saw it threatening to their preferred way of life as only mothers and wives. It's always about fear.

[dann]

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

... They aren't a problem ...

Well, some of them are, but not because they're gay.

[Regnad Kcin]

Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin

No, not everyone who disagrees with this liberal (actually a moderate, but NVM) is a duck. But when they waddle, molt, fly in a V formation, and say “You’re dethpicable,” their quacks to the contrary aren’t exactly convincing.

As to the rest of your post, I can only say, sincerely, I hope your son is well, has made peace with the sadness, and that it’s not his fault.

Too late to edit my post to more clearly express the thought, so:

Originally Posted by Me

…I can only say, sincerely, I hope your son is well, has made peace with the sadness, and that he knows it’s not his fault.

[Robin]

Originally Posted by Olmstead

I'd like to see a player argue that they don't like a certain shirt sponsor. I'm sure that will go over well.

Some might choose to die on that hill because the team is sponsored by a mass murdering regime, others because the team speaks out against discrimination and hatred. Heroes all.

An indigenous player in the West Australian state netball team said she felt uncomfortable wearing the logo for Hancock Prospecting because of the views of the founder, Lang Hancock, who famously talked about "half castes" and said he wanted to poison their drinking water to make them sterile so that they would breed themselves out.

She didn't refuse to wear it, just said that it would make her uncomfortable.

Immediately the current owner, Lang Hancock's daughter, Gina Reinhardt,pulled all sponsorship of the team and criticised the netball authorities roundly for allowing the player to say it.

Needless to say all the free speech warriors of the right joined in with Reinhardt in condemning the player for daring to speak out of turn.

The player was devastated that she felt she had cost netball in Western Australia all of its funding.

And poor snowflake Provorov got called a homophobe by a few people and the far right howl that he is being persecuted.

[lionking]

Originally Posted by Robin

An indigenous player in the West Australian state netball team said she felt uncomfortable wearing the logo for Hancock Prospecting because of the views of the founder, Lang Hancock, who famously talked about "half castes" and said he wanted to poison their drinking water to make them sterile so that they would breed themselves out.

She didn't refuse to wear it, just said that it would make her uncomfortable.

Immediately the current owner, Lang Hancock's daughter, Gina Reinhardt,pulled all sponsorship of the team and criticised the netball authorities roundly for allowing the player to say it.

Needless to say all the free speech warriors of the right joined in with Reinhardt in condemning the player for daring to speak out of turn.

The player was devastated that she felt she had cost netball in Western Australia all of its funding.

And poor snowflake Provorov got called a homophobe by a few people and the far right howl that he is being persecuted.

I’d like evidence of that as I do not recall this at all, unless you define someone like Andrew Bolt as “all the free speech warriors”.

You also neglect to say that the sponsorship money was replaced. Why do you do these things? Yes, I get your dislike for conservatives, but you don’t need to make stuff up.

[Foster Zygote]

Originally Posted by mikegriffith1

It's hard to have a rational discussion on this issue when so many liberals start with the assumption that anyone who disagrees with them is a bigot and a homophobe, and with the assumption that the only alternative to their "progressive" position is bigotry and homophobia.

The Oxford English Dictionary definition of 'homophobia' is: negative attitudes towards homosexual people and homosexuality. Merriam-Webster's definition is: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or gay people.

That right there, in a nutshell, is why you are characterized as a homophobe and a bigot. If you don't want to be characterized as a homophobic bigot, then perhaps you should stop engaging in homophobic bigotry. Again, just because you don't engage in the worst sorts of homophobic acts, like assault or murder, it doesn't mean that your attitudes toward homosexuality, characterizing it as morally wrong, are not homophobic.

As for your biased, pro-homophobic citation, Stacyhs has already pointed out the cherry picking, so I'll only ask the following two questions:

Did you consciously choose to be heterosexual - was there a point at which you could have had any sexual preference, but consciously decided to be heterosexual?

Hypothetically, if you lived in a culture in which you were raised to see heterosexuality as perverse (say, for example, your father wrote a forum post titled Are You a Bigot If You Don't Think Heterosexuality Should Be Celebrated?), do you think you could decide to stop being heterosexual and become genuinely homosexual?

[JoeMorgue]

Person: "Is am X if I do the literal dictionary definition of X?"
Sane person: "Yes"
Hangers On: "Wow way to personalize the argument by calling the person who just admitted to meeting the definition of X an X."

And wash, rinse, repeat.

[plague311]

Originally Posted by lionking

I’d like evidence of that as I do not recall this at all, unless you define someone like Andrew Bolt as “all the free speech warriors”.

You also neglect to say that the sponsorship money was replaced. Why do you do these things? Yes, I get your dislike for conservatives, but you don’t need to make stuff up.

He said, "She felt she had", not that she did. Seems pretty clear to me that there is still funding for the organization. The point is that the money was pulled over a simple comment about the bigoted views of the company owner. I don't see anything that was made up.

[Resume]

Good news though:

Guy in dress and funny hat says

Quote:

Pope Francis Says Homosexuality Is Not a Crime . . .

But . . . (cue sad trombone)

Quote:

. . . but Is a Sin

Well, at least the OP is in agreement with the world's most famous cross-dresser.

[JoeMorgue]

"I hate gays."
"Well you're a bigot."
"No you don't understand, I only hate gays because God tells me to."
"And that changes what exactly?"

And this isn't rhetorical. I want to know why we keep getting told we have to shift the entire discussion over to one about "religious tolerance" when it's still about just being a bigot.

In the same way I'm totally and completely done with the "Oh we're talking about Nazis? Well I just remember that I'm totally for Free Speech" types and will call them out every time they want to play that game, I'm done with having to have a religious tolerance discussion every time a god botherer wants to be hateful.

[ZirconBlue]

Originally Posted by mikegriffith1

I had a son who lived the gay lifestyle for several years. I was disappointed with him and believed he was making mistake, but my wife and I never stopped loving him and never stopped helping him with college, rent, etc. By the way, after several years, he decided that homosexuality was not for him and abandoned it.

What's with the past tense? Do you no longer have a son?

[Upchurch]

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

"I hate gays."
"Well you're a bigot."
"No you don't understand, I only hate gays because God tells me to."
"And that changes what exactly?"

"I don't hate gays. I hate the sin of being gay."
"Oh. Well, who is responsible for that sin?"
"The gays."
"..."

[Foster Zygote]

"I don't hate the French, just their language, food and culture."

[Carrot Flower King]

Originally Posted by Foster Zygote

The Oxford English Dictionary definition of 'homophobia' is: negative attitudes towards homosexual people and homosexuality. Merriam-Webster's definition is: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or gay people.

That right there, in a nutshell, is why you are characterized as a homophobe and a bigot. If you don't want to be characterized as a homophobic bigot, then perhaps you should stop engaging in homophobic bigotry. Again, just because you don't engage in the worst sorts of homophobic acts, like assault or murder, it doesn't mean that your attitudes toward homosexuality, characterizing it as morally wrong, are not homophobic.

As for your biased, pro-homophobic citation, Stacyhs has already pointed out the cherry picking, so I'll only ask the following two questions:

Did you consciously choose to be heterosexual - was there a point at which you could have had any sexual preference, but consciously decided to be heterosexual?

Hypothetically, if you lived in a culture in which you were raised to see heterosexuality as perverse (say, for example, your father wrote a forum post titled Are You a Bigot If You Don't Think Heterosexuality Should Be Celebrated?), do you think you could decide to stop being heterosexual and become genuinely homosexual?

Quoting this 'cos it's good and it takes a very large hammer to the head of the relevant nail.

[plague311]

Originally Posted by Foster Zygote

"I don't hate the French, just their language, food and culture."

Originally Posted by Nigel Powers

There are only two things I can't stand in this world: People who are intolerant of other people's cultures, and the Dutch.

[lionking]

Originally Posted by plague311

He said, "She felt she had", not that she did. Seems pretty clear to me that there is still funding for the organization. The point is that the money was pulled over a simple comment about the bigoted views of the company owner. I don't see anything that was made up.

What about “all the free speech warriors” criticising the netball player? Not even one name provided. I was following that event and saw no such thing. It may have happened, but I’ll bet it was on the very margins.

[plague311]

Originally Posted by lionking

What about “all the free speech warriors” criticising the netball player? Not even one name provided. I was following that event and saw no such thing. It may have happened, but I’ll bet it was on the very margins.

So if he provides a name you're kosher? We do this all of the time on this forum, and I'd bet dimes to donuts that if I looked hard enough I'd find you making a generalization as well. It's not a lie, it's hyperbole at best.

If that's the win you need, though. Take that lap. Seems a bit overzealous to me but they're your shoes, lace those bitches up and wear them however you want.

[Regnad Kcin]

Originally Posted by Foster Zygote

"I don't hate the French, just their language, food and culture."

Sure, but their kissing…oo la la!

[ponderingturtle]

Originally Posted by gabeygoat

Believing that gay people should burn in hell for all eternity isn't particularly kind

What next claiming that the religious belief that the jews are the spawn of Satan is somehow antisemitic? Just because someone has differences of opinion about how the Jewish question should be answered politically doesn't make anyone a bigot.

[ponderingturtle]

Originally Posted by plague311

Just like you, I also despise when sports organizations show that they will accept people that are in the LGBT+ community. Good call.

As long as the players can hate the jews it's still all good.

[Hercules56]

Yes, if you believe homosexuality guarantees you a spot in hell, you are a bigot.

[Robin]

Originally Posted by lionking

I’d like evidence of that as I do not recall this at all, unless you define someone like Andrew Bolt as “all the free speech warriors”.

You also neglect to say that the sponsorship money was replaced. Why do you do these things? Yes, I get your dislike for conservatives, but you don’t need to make stuff up.

Why do you have this habit of making nonsensical, poorly thought out responses to my posts??

Do you seriously think Bolt was the only one to speak up in favour of. Rinehart?

Do you seriously think Rinehart's move is OK because someone else stepped in to be the sponsor?

Do you seriously think that I say this because I dislike conservatives?

Is that seriously the level of your intellectual processes?

[Robin]

Let's see, Barnaby Joyce, Jacqui Lambie, Chris Smith for a start.

Here is part of the Sky News pile on to the netball player:

https://www.skynews.com.au/australia...8b34f2ae4c8e12

Sky News are currently running a whiney ad campaign about how they are being "silenced" and about how courageous the are for speaking out.

And apparently this is not hypocrisy, just me allegedly hating conservatives.

Nah. I love the right wing nut job. Hate the right wing nut jobbery.

[mikegriffith1]

I see that the so-called "tolerance and inclusion" crowd, who are not very tolerant or inclusive, are trying to get NBC to fire former NFL coach and NFL Hall of Fame member Tony Dungy as a sports commentator over his alleged "bigotry" and "hatred" toward gays.

And how has Dungy, who is one of the nicest and most decent people you'd ever hope to meet--how has he supposedly displayed hate and bigotry toward gays? Well, he recently spoke out against forcing schools to put menstrual products in boys bathrooms; he believes that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice, not a genetic mandate; and in years past he expressed opposition to same-sex marriage.

This is the absurd basis that some radical liberals are using to accuse Dungy of being hateful and bigoted toward gays.

[Darat]

Originally Posted by mikegriffith1

I see that the so-called "tolerance and inclusion" crowd, who are not very tolerant or inclusive, are trying to get NBC to fire former NFL coach and NFL Hall of Fame member Tony Dungy as a sports commentator over his alleged "bigotry" and "hatred" toward gays.

And how has Dungy, who is one of the nicest and most decent people you'd ever hope to meet--how has he supposedly displayed hate and bigotry toward gays? Well, he recently spoke out against forcing schools to put menstrual products in boys bathrooms; he believes that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice, not a genetic mandate; and in years past he expressed opposition to same-sex marriage.

This is the absurd basis that some radical liberals are using to accuse Dungy of being hateful and bigoted toward gays.

Evidence?

[JoeMorgue]

Originally Posted by mikegriffith1

I see that the so-called "tolerance and inclusion" crowd, who are not very tolerant or inclusive, are trying to get NBC to fire former NFL coach and NFL Hall of Fame member Tony Dungy as a sports commentator over his alleged "bigotry" and "hatred" toward gays.

And how has Dungy, who is one of the nicest and most decent people you'd ever hope to meet--how has he supposedly displayed hate and bigotry toward gays? Well, he recently spoke out against forcing schools to put menstrual products in boys bathrooms; he believes that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice, not a genetic mandate; and in years past he expressed opposition to same-sex marriage.

This is the absurd basis that some radical liberals are using to accuse Dungy of being hateful and bigoted toward gays.

Stop lying.

Dungy reported the debunked "Litter boxes in school" urban legend. He also said gays will go to hell. You cherry picked one example I can't even find evidence he said.

Stop lying.

"You're intolerance because you won't let me hate people" isn't the flex you think it is.

Stop lying.

You are going to remember by history in the exact same mental space as the picture of the white people screaming at the little black girl for going to school.

Also you should probably try not lying.

[Upchurch]

Originally Posted by mikegriffith1

I see that the so-called "tolerance and inclusion" crowd, who are not very tolerant or inclusive, are trying to get NBC to fire former NFL coach and NFL Hall of Fame member Tony Dungy as a sports commentator over his alleged "bigotry" and "hatred" toward gays.

Literally the second post of the thread:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

This post is like if the "Paradox of Tolerance" gained sentience and was ranting on Youtube from the cab of a pickup truck while wearing wrapround mirrored sunglasses.

Originally Posted by mikegriffith1

he believes that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice, not a genetic mandate; and in years past he expressed opposition to same-sex marriage.

I've seen your arguments about evolution. I'm not sure you are in any position to judge anything to do with genetics.

Originally Posted by mikegriffith1

This is the absurd basis that some radical liberals are using to accuse Dungy of being hateful and bigoted toward gays.

I mean, denying their existence does seem fairly hateful and bigoted.

[turingtest]

Originally Posted by mikegriffith1

I see that the so-called "tolerance and inclusion" crowd, who are not very tolerant or inclusive, are trying to get NBC to fire former NFL coach and NFL Hall of Fame member Tony Dungy as a sports commentator over his alleged "bigotry" and "hatred" toward gays.

And how has Dungy, who is one of the nicest and most decent people you'd ever hope to meet--how has he supposedly displayed hate and bigotry toward gays? Well, he recently spoke out against forcing schools to put menstrual products in boys bathrooms; he believes that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice, not a genetic mandate; and in years past he expressed opposition to same-sex marriage.

This is the absurd basis that some radical liberals are using to accuse Dungy of being hateful and bigoted toward gays.

Originally Posted by Darat

Evidence?

AFAICT, mike's "crowd" is Keith Olbermann, who did tweet that Dungy should be fired from NBC. I can't find any other examples of anyone else calling for that, though I'm sure mike will have enough more examples to qualify as a "crowd."

I have no idea where the righty-tighties get the idea that "tolerance and inclusion" must also mean silence in the face of the intolerant; probably the same strawman school that says that being naturally gay must rely on a "genetic mandate."

My own feeling is that Dungy is a decent man with some opinions I don't share, and he has a right to express those opinions on his own time without fear of losing his job over them. But that right of his to express opinions doesn't include a right to do so with no push back- after all, people who have their own, opposing opinions have the same right to express them. And this is especially so when, as JoeMorgue says, one of his expressions is factually wrong (the "litter box" idiocy).

[Shalamar]

Originally Posted by mikegriffith1

I see that the so-called "tolerance and inclusion" crowd, who are not very tolerant or inclusive, are trying to get NBC to fire former NFL coach and NFL Hall of Fame member Tony Dungy as a sports commentator over his alleged "bigotry" and "hatred" toward gays.

And how has Dungy, who is one of the nicest and most decent people you'd ever hope to meet--how has he supposedly displayed hate and bigotry toward gays? Well, he recently spoke out against forcing schools to put menstrual products in boys bathrooms; he believes that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice, not a genetic mandate; and in years past he expressed opposition to same-sex marriage.

This is the absurd basis that some radical liberals are using to accuse Dungy of being hateful and bigoted toward gays.

There's the Bigotry you can't seem to find.

When did you choose to be straight?

[Stacyhs]

I'd like to see mikegriffith1's source for his claims. You know why.

[Random]

Originally Posted by mikegriffith1

I see that the so-called "tolerance and inclusion" crowd, who are not very tolerant or inclusive, are trying to get NBC to fire former NFL coach and NFL Hall of Fame member Tony Dungy as a sports commentator over his alleged "bigotry" and "hatred" toward gays.

(snip)

Tolerance is not a personal virtue, it is a peace treaty. Not tolerating bigotry is not a failure of the victims of bigotry.

[JoeMorgue]

I notice now that Mikegriffith1 is spewing hate and wrongness we have no thread nannies.

I wonder exactly how sarcastic we have to be to open wrongness and hatred we have to be before they, by pure coincidence, come back.

[Silly Green Monkey]

I mean, Darat posted just three hours before you did. When I find a post objectionable I generally report it rather than whining about it.

[JoeMorgue]

Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey

I mean, Darat posted just three hours before you did. When I find a post objectionable I generally report it rather than whining about it.

Yeah because that was my point. *roll eyes*

I'm just wondering where all the... very concerned people who are sooooooo invested in making sure we don't dare get too snarky have gone off to while he sits on his soapbox and spews that hate.

But I'm sure it's just coincidence. *Sips my tea*

[Robin]

Originally Posted by lionking

What about “all the free speech warriors” criticising the netball player? Not even one name provided. I was following that event and saw no such thing. It may have happened, but I’ll bet it was on the very margins.

Sure, Barnaby Joyce is a nobody, Jacqui Lamby, Chris Smith.

As I said before, I wish you would put in even a few second thought into your replies to me.

[Carrot Flower King]

Originally Posted by mikegriffith1

I see that the so-called "tolerance and inclusion" crowd, who are not very tolerant or inclusive, are trying to get NBC to fire former NFL coach and NFL Hall of Fame member Tony Dungy as a sports commentator over his alleged "bigotry" and "hatred" toward gays.

And how has Dungy, who is one of the nicest and most decent people you'd ever hope to meet--how has he supposedly displayed hate and bigotry toward gays? Well, he recently spoke out against forcing schools to put menstrual products in boys bathrooms; he believes that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice, not a genetic mandate; and in years past he expressed opposition to same-sex marriage.

This is the absurd basis that some radical liberals are using to accuse Dungy of being hateful and bigoted toward gays.

Do you even read what you post?

Or is it just copy pasta'd "talking points" from somewhere?

And, to repeat a question asked severral times and not answered, when did you decide to be heterosexual (assuming you are)?

[varwoche]

Originally Posted by mikegriffith1

I see that the so-called "tolerance and inclusion" crowd, who are not very tolerant or inclusive, are trying to get NBC to fire former NFL coach and NFL Hall of Fame member Tony Dungy as a sports commentator over his alleged "bigotry" and "hatred" toward gays....

He should have been called out for being an abject dimwit who believes every asinine thing he reads, no matter how implausible. That's because he echoed the retarded notion that school kids who identify as cats are being provided litter boxes. That's why he's in the news.

He apologized for the tweet, but he didn't own up to it being false.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by mikegriffith1

I see that the so-called "tolerance and inclusion" crowd, who are not very tolerant or inclusive, are trying to get NBC to fire former NFL coach and NFL Hall of Fame member Tony Dungy as a sports commentator over his alleged bigotry and hatred toward gays.

And how has Dungy, who is one of the nicest and most decent people you'd ever hope to meet--how has he supposedly displayed hate and bigotry toward gays? Well, he recently spoke out against forcing schools to put menstrual products in boys bathrooms; he believes that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice, not a genetic mandate; and in years past he expressed opposition to same-sex marriage.

This is the absurd basis that some radical liberals are using to accuse Dungy of being hateful and bigoted toward gays.

You included some superfluous words and punctuation in your post. I have hilited them for you. Dungy has openly and publicly displayed his bigotry for all to see. Your support for him and his bigotry is quite shameful.