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Tags 2016 elections , 2020 elections , donald trump , presidential candidates , republicans

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Old 22nd March 2020, 11:49 AM   #481
theprestige
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Originally Posted by Dread Pirate Roberts View Post
Can it also depend on the type of fear? Economic, like the Great Depression and Recession, people picked the left.
Maybe. The Great Depression was kind of a big deal. Hence the name. Like I said, my sense of human nature is that things have to get pretty bad before people start thinking about restructuring society as a solution.

---

There may be other factors, too. The New Deal was an extreme solution to an extreme situation. It wasn't the thin end of Communism's statist totalitarian wedge. Even if Americans today feel that some restructuring of the system is necessary, they might still reject Bernie's prescription. There's a difference between desperate measures for desperate times, and not letting a crisis go to waste when you can use it to advance your otherwise-unpalatable agenda.

Right? A politician might say, "this crisis calls for a little more socialism - even a lot more socialism! - than we are normally comfortable with. But I think we can all agree it's necessary."

Or a politician might say, "this crisis clearly shows why Communism is the better option. Revolution now!"

Last edited by theprestige; 22nd March 2020 at 11:56 AM.
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Old 22nd March 2020, 09:52 PM   #482
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
I think someone is shilling for the Centrist/Third Way-ers when everything we know about the US on an issue by issue basis shows the populace is highly progressive.
I agree with you that per issue, most Americans are progressive. However, ther are a great many Americans that will vote for the Trump cult based on single issues. Some idiots would rather see the pandemic kill off 80% of America in order to ban abortion. (This is hyperbole, for you a-holes that want to call me out). The point still stands.
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Old 24th March 2020, 02:09 AM   #483
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In fact, we have those kinds of people right here on this forum.
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Old 24th March 2020, 02:19 AM   #484
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Some idiots would rather see the pandemic kill off 80% of America in order to ban abortion. (This is hyperbole, for you a-holes that want to call me out).
Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
In fact, we have those kinds of people right here on this forum.


Į\(ļ_o)/Į
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Old 24th March 2020, 07:20 AM   #485
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I'm not too concerned about approval ratings anymore.
Some hinky games with approval ratings. Moscow Mitch routinely gets very low (sub 25%) ARs and keeps getting re-elected.

Then again, with GOP election rigging, all bets are off...
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Old 24th March 2020, 07:22 AM   #486
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
That's not what you lied about and you know it. You lied about a vast majority of people supporting the removal of Trump from office. That is not what the polls showed.

You're helping make the anti-Trump side vulnerable by being a pernicious liar.
Are Democrats and Independents not people? The approval ratings for removal among both groups were HUGE, and they make up the bulk of the electorate.
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Old 24th March 2020, 07:44 AM   #487
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
Some hinky games with approval ratings. Moscow Mitch routinely gets very low (sub 25%) ARs and keeps getting re-elected.
What are your sources for his approval ratings?
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Old 24th March 2020, 08:15 AM   #488
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
Are Democrats and Independents not people? The approval ratings for removal among both groups were HUGE, and they make up the bulk of the electorate.
Tripling down on your lie?

If you're going to lie like that why didn't you just say people were unanimous on Trump's removal and then point out that you're only talking about people who support his removal?

You are now obviously a deliberate liar.

The truth, the unfortunate truth, is that only a slim majority supported removal. Another truth is that you are a pernicious liar.
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Old 24th March 2020, 08:34 AM   #489
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
Some hinky games with approval ratings. Moscow Mitch routinely gets very low (sub 25%) ARs and keeps getting re-elected.

Then again, with GOP election rigging, all bets are off...
Not necessarily any jiggery-pokery.

After all, if turnout is 50% then if all of the 25% of the people who approve of you vote for you, you'll still get a majority of the votes cast.

IMO the biggest skewing factor is the fact that people will vote for the party they support regardless of the candidate. Presumably a proportion of people who disapprove of Mitch McConnell are GOP voters who think he is far too moderate. Those people would never vote for the Democratic Party candidate and will therefore not vote, or hold their noses and vote the GOP ticket.
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Old 24th March 2020, 09:04 AM   #490
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Not necessarily any jiggery-pokery.

After all, if turnout is 50% then if all of the 25% of the people who approve of you vote for you, you'll still get a majority of the votes cast.

IMO the biggest skewing factor is the fact that people will vote for the party they support regardless of the candidate. Presumably a proportion of people who disapprove of Mitch McConnell are GOP voters who think he is far too moderate. Those people would never vote for the Democratic Party candidate and will therefore not vote, or hold their noses and vote the GOP ticket.
There's a growing polisci model that proposes there aren't very many swing voters; but rather, we experience turnout waves from different voter segments that do or don't get motivated this election vs the last one.
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Old 24th March 2020, 04:03 PM   #491
ChristianProgressive
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What are your sources for his approval ratings?
Here's one

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...-at-18-percent

Here's one from the next year

https://www.thedailybeast.com/kentuc...itch-mcconnell

Here's one that is above 25%, but barely.

https://morningconsult.com/2018/04/1...ular-senators/
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Old 24th March 2020, 04:09 PM   #492
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Tripling down on your lie?

If you're going to lie like that why didn't you just say people were unanimous on Trump's removal and then point out that you're only talking about people who support his removal?

You are now obviously a deliberate liar.

The truth, the unfortunate truth, is that only a slim majority supported removal. Another truth is that you are a pernicious liar.
Quote:
81% of Democrats favoring the president's removal and 84% of Republicans opposing it. Independents said Trump should be removed by a nearly 20-point margin, with 53% in favor of conviction and 34% opposed.
Note that the source poll was a FOX poll and thus skewed pro-Trump.
Source
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ll/4581020002/

Game, set, match.
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Old 24th March 2020, 04:48 PM   #493
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
Note that the source poll was a FOX poll and thus skewed pro-Trump.
Source
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ll/4581020002/

Game, set, match.
But the quote that is relevant to your original claim is the first sentence of the article.

Quote:
Half of registered voters and a majority of independents think the Senate should convict President Donald Trump in his impeachment trial and remove him from office, according to a Fox News poll released Sunday.
And here is your original quote that you are running away from:

Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
NO ONE's support is that rock-solid. As recently as the eve of the Senate Removal vote a vast majority was polled as wanting Trump removed.

Someone's playing games with the numbers.
Your claim WAS WRONG. And you now have multiple sources telling you it's wrong including the article you just cited to me. How stupid are you trying to make yourself look?

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Old 24th March 2020, 08:37 PM   #494
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
But the quote that is relevant to your original claim is the first sentence of the article.

And here is your original quote that you are running away from:



Your claim WAS WRONG. And you now have multiple sources telling you it's wrong including the article you just cited to me. How stupid are you trying to make yourself look?
THe raw aggregate is misleading, given that Dems and Indies make up the majority of voters. Repubs are a small minority (less than 1/3.
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Old 24th March 2020, 08:52 PM   #495
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
THe raw aggregate is misleading, given that Dems and Indies make up the majority of voters. Repubs are a small minority (less than 1/3.
Please tell me you are stupidest person on the planet, because the only other alternative is that you have just hextupled down on lying.
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Old 27th March 2020, 08:49 PM   #496
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Please tell me you are stupidest person on the planet, because the only other alternative is that you have just hextupled down on lying.
The last election had strong GOP turnout and the total number of cast votes was ~ 60% of the electorate. Since the Orange Mussolini got slightly less than half the votes, that makes the number of Republicans less than 30%.

Math is your friend.
.
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Old 27th March 2020, 10:50 PM   #497
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
There's a growing polisci model that proposes there aren't very many swing voters; but rather, we experience turnout waves from different voter segments that do or don't get motivated this election vs the last one.
It is certainly a possible hypothesis.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 04:23 AM   #498
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This thread will go on for years
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Old 2nd April 2020, 06:25 AM   #499
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
This thread will go on for years
It will if you keep reviving it. The last post was five days ago before your profound post.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 07:40 AM   #500
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
This thread will go on for years
Perhaps, but I wonder if you will ever, ever post something of substance?
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Old 2nd April 2020, 08:27 AM   #501
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
This thread will go on for years
I can't deny that's a possibility.

Once upon a time, for a joke, I started an experimental thread in community section. My goal was to get zero responses. The OP was dull, tedious, vim-less. I failed.

So yes, if you keep bumping the thread, people will inevitably engage. Congrats! It's a remarkable achievement! Your contributions to this forum border on legendary.
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Old 9th April 2020, 07:29 PM   #502
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Maybe Peak Trump and peak Covid will coincide
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Old 10th April 2020, 12:18 AM   #503
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Biden is ahead of Trump in Ohio, Michigan and Pennsylvania. Peak Trump has come and gone. I'd like to see Biden win in Florida, just to add salt to the wound.
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Old 19th April 2020, 06:26 PM   #504
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Old 20th April 2020, 10:39 AM   #505
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Biden is ahead of Trump in Ohio, Michigan and Pennsylvania. Peak Trump has come and gone. I'd like to see Biden win in Florida, just to add salt to the wound.
I'd like to see Biden win like Reagan beat Mondale, but I'll settle for Trump getting beaten by a thin margin.
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Old 20th April 2020, 02:17 PM   #506
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
I'd like to see Biden win like Reagan beat Mondale, but I'll settle for Trump getting beaten by a thin margin.
We'll settle for a narrow win, but the other side won't. He's gotta be trounced badly enough that he and his basket of deplorables have a real uphill climb in pushing their conspiracies of a rigged election. If it's a close run thing, I shudder at the potential for shenanigans right up to the Supreme Court.
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Old 24th April 2020, 12:05 PM   #507
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Originally Posted by hgc View Post
The only thing in this election cycle that will get even more over-the-top media coverage than the rise of Donald Trump will be the decline and exit of Donald Trump. But that at least will be a more tasty meal to slop up.
Is it tasty yet?
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Old 25th April 2020, 04:07 AM   #508
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Is it tasty yet?
We're only on the amuse bouche right now but the meal is certainly looking rather tasty so far.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...iden-6765.html

Your guy has no map and he told people to ingest bleach.
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Old 25th April 2020, 06:55 AM   #509
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Is it tasty yet?
What, Clorox?

When you try to engage with posters who haven't been to the forum in five years, at long last you may have found a winning debate strategy.
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Old 25th April 2020, 02:00 PM   #510
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
..nominatng Trump almost guarntees a Democratic win next November.


almost
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Old 25th April 2020, 05:46 PM   #511
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post


almost
Your guy has no map and he told people to ingest bleach.

A candidate who can be elected on Twitter can be destroyed by a meme. The Toilet Duck IV meme will destroy Trump.
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Old 26th April 2020, 05:47 AM   #512
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Well we might have passed Peak Coronavirus but that's about it
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Old 26th April 2020, 09:02 AM   #513
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You candidate told people to drink bleach.
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Old 26th April 2020, 10:28 AM   #514
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
You candidate told people to drink bleach.
No. He told them to inject it.....
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Old 26th April 2020, 10:38 AM   #515
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
No. He told them to inject it.....
No, he didn't. He said that we should waste government resources to look into it. His comments were likely to cause stupid people to self-medicate with disinfectant. Both those things are bad enough.

He did not literally tell anyone to inject disinfectant. He didn't even tell researchers to inject anyone, but to investigate if disinfectant could somehow be used internally.

His actual behavior is stupid enough. I don't see any reason to exaggerate it. In your favor, you corrected someone who said he told people to drink bleach.
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Old 26th April 2020, 11:09 AM   #516
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
No, he didn't. He said that we should waste government resources to look into it. His comments were likely to cause stupid people to self-medicate with disinfectant. Both those things are bad enough.

He did not literally tell anyone to inject disinfectant. He didn't even tell researchers to inject anyone, but to investigate if disinfectant could somehow be used internally.

His actual behavior is stupid enough. I don't see any reason to exaggerate it. In your favor, you corrected someone who said he told people to drink bleach.
Letís just all reflect for a moment about what it means for our current reality that this is a discussion that is actually happening.
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Old 26th April 2020, 11:17 AM   #517
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Letís just all reflect for a moment about what it means for our current reality that this is a discussion that is actually happening.
Which is why I see no reason to quibble over details. The fact that all the jokes and memes aren't fair or entirely accurate is hardly a reason to stop them. If Trump doesn't like it, he should resign.
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Old 26th April 2020, 11:44 AM   #518
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Which is why I see no reason to quibble over details. The fact that all the jokes and memes aren't fair or entirely accurate is hardly a reason to stop them. If Trump doesn't like it, he should resign.
I prefer to convince people by using facts rather than exaggerations. Indeed, one reason I despise Trump is that he can't stick to the truth.

Maybe you don't give a damn one way or the other and think that all that matters is getting the bastard out of office by whatever means necessary (in terms of persuading voters -- I'm presuming violence is a step too far). I disagree.

It's got nothing to do with whether Trump deserves to be treated fairly. I'm not even talking about memes, which are generally beneath contempt. This is a skeptics' forum. We should try to be reasonably accurate. We should avoid strawmen, especially in a case such as this where Trump's own words really are damning enough that hyperbole adds very little.
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Old 26th April 2020, 11:45 AM   #519
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Letís just all reflect for a moment about what it means for our current reality that this is a discussion that is actually happening.
Probably best not to reflect too much or else drinking bleach might seem a lot more attractive.
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Old 26th April 2020, 11:49 AM   #520
theprestige
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
I(This is hyperbole, for you a-holes that want to call me out). The point still stands.
If it's such a valid point, how come you won't let it stand without hyperbole? And why do you have to pre-emptively attack and dismiss anyone who questions the hyperbole?

I think maybe the point doesn't stand at all, without the two crutches you've provided. Take away the exaggeration and the well-poisoning, and I bet that point would fall right over. Like one of those gas station air tube guys when you turn off the fan.

A lot of anti-trump sentiment seems to boil down to wild flailing, propped up by fans blowing hot air.
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