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Tags donald trump , Mueller investigation , Robert Mueller , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections , William Barr

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Old 11th June 2020, 05:03 PM   #401
Segnosaur
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It would be nice but Barr won't show nor will he allow anyone else to show. It would be nice if the judge then simply released the un-redacted report.
I suspect what would happen is that Barr would just appeal the decision to another court, and it would be tied up in legal knots until after the election.
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Old 11th June 2020, 05:07 PM   #402
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I don't see why they couldn't have still met in person; just take the usual precautions with masks, distancing, and using sanitizer.
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Old 11th June 2020, 05:11 PM   #403
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It would be nice but Barr won't show nor will he allow anyone else to show. It would be nice if the judge then simply released the un-redacted report.

It might shut up Lindsay Graham who this morning in committee is still repeating the CT that the FBI was in cahoots with Clinton to get Trump.

I have a great idea, release it near the end of Oct.

Unlike Congress, it is within a Federal Courts power to send the FBI to arrest Barr and bring him before the court. It only a matter of whether there is a judge with big enough balls to do it.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 10:23 PM   #404
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The most explosive revelations from the newly released, less redacted version of the Mueller report

Quote:
Multiple top Trump campaign aides told investigators that Trump himself, then the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, knew WikiLeaks had information that would hurt the Clinton campaign, the report said.

Mueller also believed Trump may have lied to him in his written answers to questions from investigators.

Prosecutors also suspected that Trump may have discussed his answers with Roger Stone, the longtime former Republican strategist who was convicted on seven felony counts of obstruction, false statements, and witness tampering.
Also -

Zelinsky Opening Statement Directly Accuses DOJ of Corruption In Stone Sentencing
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Old 23rd June 2020, 10:42 PM   #405
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Unlike Congress, it is within a Federal Courts power to send the FBI to arrest Barr and bring him before the court. It only a matter of whether there is a judge with big enough balls to do it.
Slight nit: the FBI works for Barr's Justice Department. A federal judge would send U.S. Marshals, who are part of the judiciary.
https://www.usmarshals.gov/index.html

Theoretically, the Congress, which has its own police force, could also make an arrest. But they haven't done it since 1927.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlo...fy-its-orders/

Last edited by Bob001; 23rd June 2020 at 10:52 PM.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 11:23 PM   #406
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Slight nit: the FBI works for Barr's Justice Department. A federal judge would send U.S. Marshals, who are part of the judiciary.
https://www.usmarshals.gov/index.html
My bad

Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Theoretically, the Congress, which has its own police force, could also make an arrest. But they haven't done it since 1927.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlo...fy-its-orders/
And there hasn't been been an AG as crooked and corrupt as Barr since.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_N._Mitchell
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Old 24th June 2020, 01:13 AM   #407
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
And there hasn't been been an AG as crooked and corrupt as Barr since.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_N._Mitchell
Sure Barr isn't worse?
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Old 24th June 2020, 01:23 AM   #408
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Sure Barr isn't worse?
Barr is worse for the simple fact that, after Watergate, he should and did know better.
Barr is a smart person fully aware that what he does would get him thrown in jail if it wasn't for a White House and Senate that will back him as long as he backs them.
He is part of a cartel.
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Old 24th June 2020, 01:30 AM   #409
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Where is this less redacted version?


Here it is https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/19/p...ort/index.html


It's just the Appendices. Is that correct?
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Old 24th June 2020, 02:18 AM   #410
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Sure Barr isn't worse?
I'm sure he is worse that Mitchell ever was.
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Old 24th June 2020, 04:31 AM   #411
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Barr is a smart person fully aware that what he does would get him thrown in jail if it wasn't for a White House and Senate that will back him as long as he backs them.
And, no doubt, a promised presidential pardon when everything goes to hell.
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Old 24th June 2020, 06:18 AM   #412
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Where is this less redacted version?


Here it is https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/19/p...ort/index.html


It's just the Appendices. Is that correct?
It's Roger Stone related stuff, now that Roger Stone's trial is over, unless I completely misunderstood.
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Old 24th June 2020, 09:21 AM   #413
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
I'm sure he is worse that Mitchell ever was.

Yes. Mitchell was just trying to get Nixon re-elected. Barr is a right-wing religous extremist who is perverting the functions of government.
Quote:
In a histrionic speech at Notre Dame Law School on Friday, he blamed “secularists” and “so-called progressives” for destroying society and precipitating the crises of family dissolution, crime, and drugs, while talking of a war between religious and nonreligious Americans. Scary ****.

“This is not decay,” Barr intoned darkly at Notre Dame. “This is organized destruction. Secularists and their allies have marshaled all the forces of mass communication, popular culture, the entertainment industry, and academia in an unremitting assault on religion and traditional values.”
https://www.thenation.com/article/ar...me-secularism/
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Old 26th June 2020, 09:25 AM   #414
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https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/sta...84544249786368

Quote:
Barr spent weeks in 2019 questioning SDNY prosecutors over their decision to charge Michael Cohen with violating campaign finance laws.

At one point, Barr told DOJ officials to draft a memo that could have undermined that part of Cohen's conviction. https://nyti.ms/2CL8eJD
Article embedded in tweet.
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Old 27th June 2020, 11:34 AM   #415
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
The same Michael Cohen Trump wants in jail? I never thought I'd see the day Squeegee agreed with Trump, but here we are.
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Old 27th June 2020, 12:46 PM   #416
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Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma View Post
The same Michael Cohen Trump wants in jail? I never thought I'd see the day Squeegee agreed with Trump, but here we are.
Of more note there is the "campaign finance laws," I think.

For context, by the look of it, the Trump campaign's actual main crimes involved campaign finance law violations, including felonies. They've been pretty much given a pass there, though, for no actually good reason. The FEC's been crippled to the point where the Republicans on it literally stopped all FEC investigation into even the NRA's involvement in funneling Russian money into our elections (on the basis of the flimsiest, most transparent of excuses even after Butina's confession) to the significant benefit of the Republicans and then became pretty much completely defunct because of McConnell's long-standing hatred of the FEC. On the Mueller side, Mueller decided to generally employ a standard for campaign finance violations that had been explicitly forbidden by Congress and ruled against in McConnell vs FEC (which is probably related to McConnell's long-standing campaign to sabotage the FEC), which led to the Trump campaign not being charged for... the main things that they were being accused of. Even stuff like Manafort sharing campaign data with the Russians while knowing that the Russians wanted the data so they could interfere better wasn't charged under that explicitly banned standard.

Given that, Barr's interference about that, specifically, looks more like an attempt to protect Trump and co and make Trump happy.
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Old 27th June 2020, 02:31 PM   #417
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
stopped all FEC investigation[/url] into even the NRA's involvement in funneling Russian money into our elections
Can you post the relevant documents/evidence/cite for this statement? Thanks.
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Old 27th June 2020, 02:33 PM   #418
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Of more note there is the "campaign finance laws," I think.

For context, by the look of it, the Trump campaign's actual main crimes involved campaign finance law violations, including felonies.

Can you be more specific on this point? Which felonies and specific instances are you referring to? Thanks.
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Old 27th June 2020, 02:43 PM   #419
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Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma View Post
Can you post the relevant documents/evidence/cite for this statement? Thanks.
I gave an example of a supporting link for it in what you quoted? That [/url] tag in what you quoted is from it.

There's plenty more if you actually look, of course.

With that said, though, what, exactly, are you asking? My statement was that the Republicans blocked investigation into the matter, which they did.

Here, though, is a link directly to an official FEC statement on the matter.
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Old 27th June 2020, 02:50 PM   #420
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Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma View Post
Can you be more specific on this point? Which felonies and specific instances are you referring to? Thanks.
Well, there's the obvious ones involving Cohen, to start with.

Trump probably won't be charged with campaign finance fraud in office. But that doesn't make him innocent.

Quote:
In a blistering sentencing submission filed against Michael Cohen, the SDNY definitively indicated that Trump conspired with Cohen to commit the felony crime of campaign finance fraud.
To poke further at that via CREW

Quote:
Five of Trump’s potential violations involved his apparent knowing and willful direction, receipt, and concealment of unlawful contributions to his presidential campaign in violation of the Federal Election Campaign Act (FECA), 52 U.S.C. § 30101 et seq. While it is true that technical offenses of the FECA are penalized with civil fines, more serious offenses are subject to criminal penalties. Unlawful campaign contributions or expenditures in excess of $25,000, made knowingly and willfully, are felonies punishable by up to five years in prison.
The eight criminal offenses, including seven felonies, potentially committed by Trump include:

Causing American Media Inc. (AMI) to make and/or accepting (or causing his then lawyer Michael Cohen to accept) an unlawful corporate contribution related to Karen McDougal.
Two instances of causing Cohen to make and/or accepting an unlawful individual contributions related to Stephanie Clifford and February 2015 online polling.
Two instances of causing Donald J. Trump for President LLC’s failure to report contributions from AMI and Cohen related to McDougal and Clifford.
Causing Donald J. Trump for President LLC to file false reports with the Federal Election Commission (FEC).
Making a false statement by failing to disclose liability to Cohen for the Clifford payment on his 2017 public financial disclosure form.
Conspiracy to defraud the United States by undermining the lawful function of the FEC and/or violating federal campaign finance law related to “hush money” payments, false statements, and cover-ups of reimbursement payments to Cohen made by the Trump Organization.
That enough to start with for you?
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Old 27th June 2020, 02:50 PM   #421
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
I gave an example of a supporting link for it in what you quoted? That [/url] tag in what you quoted is from it.

There's plenty more if you actually look, of course.

With that said, though, what, exactly, are you asking? My statement was that the Republicans blocked investigation into the matter, which they did.

Here, though, is a link directly to an official FEC statement on the matter.
No, you are misunderstanding my question. You claimed "The FEC's been crippled to the point where the Republicans on it literally stopped all FEC investigation into even the NRA's involvement in funneling Russian money into our elections."

I'm interested in this part specifically, "the NRA's involvement in funneling Russian money into our elections." What is the current evidence for this that warrants an investigation? Thanks.
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Old 27th June 2020, 03:16 PM   #422
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Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma View Post
No, you are misunderstanding my question. You claimed "The FEC's been crippled to the point where the Republicans on it literally stopped all FEC investigation into even the NRA's involvement in funneling Russian money into our elections."

I'm interested in this part specifically, "the NRA's involvement in funneling Russian money into our elections." What is the current evidence for this that warrants an investigation? Thanks.
Hmm? By the sound of it, you're effectively asking for proof that it did happen, after further investigation into the matter was blocked.

You've already been given links that largely deal with the question that you just asked, after all. Read the FEC statement, for example. More can be added, but more does not need to be added.

Related on the general topic, incidentally, though perhaps not as relevant to your specific question -

NRA Was 'Foreign Asset' To Russia Ahead of 2016, New Senate Report Reveals
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Old 27th June 2020, 03:35 PM   #423
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Hmm? By the sound of it, you're effectively asking for proof that it did happen, after further investigation into the matter was blocked.

You've already been given links that largely deal with the question that you just asked, after all. Read the FEC statement, for example. More can be added, but more does not need to be added.

Related on the general topic, incidentally, though perhaps not as relevant to your specific question -

NRA Was 'Foreign Asset' To Russia Ahead of 2016, New Senate Report Reveals
So there is no evidence for the claim that the NRA funneled Russian money into our elections? Or there is and you just refuse to post a cite in a discussion forum in the relevant thread? Partisan allegations are a dime a dozen. Your articles cite Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore and "Senate Finance Committee's Democratic staff." Is there any meat to the allegation which would warrant an investigation into Russian money laundering via the NRA?
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Old 27th June 2020, 03:39 PM   #424
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The NRA & Russia: How a Tax Exempt Organization Became a Foreign Asset
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Old 27th June 2020, 03:50 PM   #425
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Well, there's the obvious ones involving Cohen, to start with.

Trump probably won't be charged with campaign finance fraud in office. But that doesn't make him innocent.



To poke further at that via CREW



That enough to start with for you?
It doesn't amount to anything except allegations. You could argue on precedent that they weren't violations, and I'm sure he would. Trump is no more a felon than mother Theresa at this point, regardless of your characterization of the allegations regarding the Cohen payments.
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Old 27th June 2020, 03:51 PM   #426
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Originally Posted by The Greater Fool View Post

There is nothing in there about the NRA funneling Russian money to campaigns.
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Old 27th June 2020, 03:58 PM   #427
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Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma View Post
There is nothing in there about the NRA funneling Russian money to campaigns.
Wow, have an agenda do you?

Do you not understand exactly what the title means?

What interest in supporting the NRA do you suppose Russia/Russian oligarchs have?
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Old 27th June 2020, 04:15 PM   #428
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Wow, have an agenda do you?

Do you not understand exactly what the title means?

What interest in supporting the NRA do you suppose Russia/Russian oligarchs have?

My agenda is looking for evidence of the allegation that money was given to the NRA by Russia. Unless evidence for this is posted, it's partisan drivel peddled by Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore and "Senate Finance Committee's Democratic staff," and repeated here as fact. I thought this was a skeptics forum? It used to be that pushers of such allegations would be happy to cite the specific evidence for their claims. I know why it's not cited, because it doesn't exist. If this were an allegation about a left leaning organization by some Q-tards, they'd be laughed out of the thread, as they should be. Same applies here.
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Old 27th June 2020, 04:51 PM   #429
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Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma View Post
My agenda is looking for evidence of the allegation that money was given to the NRA by Russia. Unless evidence for this is posted, it's partisan drivel peddled by Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore and "Senate Finance Committee's Democratic staff," and repeated here as fact. I thought this was a skeptics forum? It used to be that pushers of such allegations would be happy to cite the specific evidence for their claims. I know why it's not cited, because it doesn't exist. If this were an allegation about a left leaning organization by some Q-tards, they'd be laughed out of the thread, as they should be. Same applies here.
What's a Q-tard??

You ignored the evidence, hand-waved it away claiming no partisan report can be valid.

What are you looking for, McConnell to admit a lot of the millions the RNC gets from the NRA has been coming from the Russians all along? It's not just Trump that got this money.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
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Old 27th June 2020, 04:52 PM   #430
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Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma View Post
My agenda is looking for evidence of the allegation that money was given to the NRA by Russia. Unless evidence for this is posted, it's partisan drivel peddled by Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore and "Senate Finance Committee's Democratic staff," and repeated here as fact. I thought this was a skeptics forum? It used to be that pushers of such allegations would be happy to cite the specific evidence for their claims. I know why it's not cited, because it doesn't exist. If this were an allegation about a left leaning organization by some Q-tards, they'd be laughed out of the thread, as they should be. Same applies here.
Ron Wyden has credibility, people who uncritically repeat things popular in q-anon circles do not.

That's not hypocrisy or a double standard.

A skeptic won't need to ask why.

Dismissing Ron Wyden because of his party affiliation is what is motivated by partisan bias.

TL;DR: project somewhere else.

ETA: You're new here, so heads up "I thought this was a skeptic forum" is some weak tea emotional manipulation ********* that is so overplayed that it will only get you laughed at. Proceed at your own risk.

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Old 27th June 2020, 05:10 PM   #431
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Obviously you, TahiniBinShawarma, are being willfully ignorant here but in case others need a memory refresher:

AJC: Who are the top 10 recipients of NRA money?
Quote:
In the 2016 election, the NRA spent $11,438,118 to support Donald Trump’s campaign and donated $19,756,346 to groups opposing Hillary Clinton’s. However, the bulk of the contributions have gone to House and Senate members. Here is a look at the top 10 recipients of NRA contributions.
Snopes: Did the Kremlin Give Money to the National Rifle Association to Help Trump?
A report by McClatchy revealed that the FBI is looking into whether a Russian banker with Kremlin ties funneled money through the NRA during the 2016 election.
Quote:
Even as the NRA has attacked the American news media with incendiary videos stoking hostility, the news media has been reporting on apparent links between the NRA and the Kremlin — most recently revealing a Federal Bureau of Investigation probe into whether a Kremlin-linked banker used the gun lobby organization to help the Trump campaign.

According to an 18 January 2018 McClatchy D.C. Bureau report, the FBI is investigating allegations that Alexander Torshin, an official at the Central Bank of the Russia and life member of the NRA, funneled money through the gun lobby group to the Trump campaign. The reporting was based on interviews with two unnamed sources familiar with the matter, but who requested their names be withheld because it involves classified and confidential information:
The Guardian: NRA in crisis: how the gun group became ensnared in the Russia inquiry - The Russia ties of NRA bigwigs are political and legal headaches that won’t go away
Quote:
For the powerful 5 million-member NRA, the Russia ties of Keene and other NRA bigwigs are political and legal headaches that won’t go away – not with the FBI and congressional panels pursuing lengthy probes into the Kremlin’s alleged scheme to influence the pro-gun giant’s top brass, other conservative groups and US politicians. ...

The links are a complex web as evidenced by two of those at the 2016 convention dinner. Ex-Moscow banker Alexander Torshin, who was sanctioned last year, and his gun rights protege Maria Butina, who in late 2018 pleaded guilty to being a Russian influence agent and is now cooperating with US law enforcement, spent years cozying up to the NRA and some of its leaders. Their goal was to “establish unofficial lines of communication with Americans having power and influence over US politics”, according to Butina’s later plea agreement.
Remember Butina?

All of this was well documented. The Congressional committee merely gathered the evidence up and presented it in a report.

But then some people aren't the least bit interested in the evidence. Some people have another agenda for joining this forum and this discussion.
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Old 27th June 2020, 05:15 PM   #432
TahiniBinShawarma
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
What's a Q-tard??

You ignored the evidence, hand-waved it away claiming no partisan report can be valid.

What are you looking for, McConnell to admit a lot of the millions the RNC gets from the NRA has been coming from the Russians all along? It's not just Trump that got this money.
There is no evidence of Russians funneling money through the NRA for me to hand wave away. Otherwise you would cite it. Your cite does not back up the claim. You've cited a baseless allegation by partisan sources. I'm not looking to McConnell for anything. I'm looking to you to post something, anything, which shows Russia funneled money to the NRA.
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Old 27th June 2020, 05:35 PM   #433
TahiniBinShawarma
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Obviously you, TahiniBinShawarma, are being willfully ignorant here but in case others need a memory refresher:

AJC: Who are the top 10 recipients of NRA money?


Snopes: Did the Kremlin Give Money to the National Rifle Association to Help Trump?
A report by McClatchy revealed that the FBI is looking into whether a Russian banker with Kremlin ties funneled money through the NRA during the 2016 election.


The Guardian: NRA in crisis: how the gun group became ensnared in the Russia inquiry - The Russia ties of NRA bigwigs are political and legal headaches that won’t go awayRemember Butina?

All of this was well documented. The Congressional committee merely gathered the evidence up and presented it in a report.

But then some people aren't the least bit interested in the evidence. Some people have another agenda for joining this forum and this discussion.
None of these cites provide any evidence that Russia funneled money to the NRA. Not one. What you have done is gish galloped a lot of irrelevant unrelated information mixed with unnamed/unsourced allegations and said "see there is the evidence of the NRA laundering Russian money to campaigns." In fact, it shows no such thing.

No one here as shown any credible source for this allegation. We do get,

"FBI counterintelligence investigators have focused on the activities of Alexander Torshin, the deputy governor of Russia’s central bank who is known for his close relationships with both Russian President Vladimir Putin and the NRA, the sources said.

It is illegal to use foreign money to influence federal elections.

It’s unclear how long the Torshin inquiry has been ongoing, but the news comes as Justice Department Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s sweeping investigation of Russian meddling in the 2016 election, including whether the Kremlin colluded with Trump’s campaign, has been heating up."

So this was investigated by Mueller, and yet nothing came of it. Yet the allegation is repeated here as fact. Do you suppose Robert Mueller suppressed this Russian meddling in our election? It was his duty to investigate these allegations, your source claims he was. His investigation was unrestricted. Point me to the section in the Mueller report which contains evidence the the NRA funneled Russian money to campaigns.
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Old 27th June 2020, 05:38 PM   #434
TahiniBinShawarma
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Obviously you, TahiniBinShawarma, are being willfully ignorant here but in case others need a memory refresher:

AJC: Who are the top 10 recipients of NRA money?


Snopes: Did the Kremlin Give Money to the National Rifle Association to Help Trump?
A report by McClatchy revealed that the FBI is looking into whether a Russian banker with Kremlin ties funneled money through the NRA during the 2016 election.


The Guardian: NRA in crisis: how the gun group became ensnared in the Russia inquiry - The Russia ties of NRA bigwigs are political and legal headaches that won’t go awayRemember Butina?

All of this was well documented. The Congressional committee merely gathered the evidence up and presented it in a report.

But then some people aren't the least bit interested in the evidence. Some people have another agenda for joining this forum and this discussion.
FYI, your snopes article cites a McClatchy article by Greg Gordon, the same fellow that gave "Cohen in Prage" and also refers to Glenn Simpson of peepee dossier fame. Color me unimpressed.
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Old 27th June 2020, 08:31 PM   #435
Aridas
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Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma View Post
So there is no evidence for the claim that the NRA funneled Russian money into our elections?
There is. I have no problem with saying that it's not proof, though, given the lack of sufficient cooperation by the NRA that's in the public eye. However, what you're doing is attacking the point that Republicans of the FEC squelched FEC investigation into the matter completely, refusing to allow even the simplest of verification (calling up the FBI and asking them a very simple question) which they irrefutably did.

Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma View Post
Or there is and you just refuse to post a cite in a discussion forum in the relevant thread?


Refuse? So far, you've shown strong indication that you're not engaging honestly, quite frankly.

Still, just for a moment consider the larger picture. Russia has been working to co-opt the NRA for years with some notable success - Maria Butina's conviction serves as ample evidence of that, really. In 2016, while Russia was engaging in massive and unprecedented attempts to interfere with the elections in the anti-Hillary direction, NRA spending surged over $100 million amidst their pro-Trump push. About 30 million of that was directly focused on Trump (about double what was spent on Romney, apparently) and about 21 million of that 30 million alone was from dark money sources. Add to that the NRA's... troubles with corruption, to put it nicely, and their rather evasive answers (no big donations from Russian addresses doesn't actually mean much when using shell corporations with an address in the appropriate country as an intermediary is one of standard and obvious measures to move money in the dark) and the stage is set extremely suspiciously. When the Republican party blocks investigation into huge amounts of suspicious money that went overwhelmingly into supporting and getting Republicans elected, that's a huge red flag as well.

Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma View Post
It doesn't amount to anything except allegations. You could argue on precedent that they weren't violations, and I'm sure he would. Trump is no more a felon than mother Theresa at this point, regardless of your characterization of the allegations regarding the Cohen payments.
Government refuses to charge Trump based on an OLC memo crafted to achieve a specific political end with Nixon and that achieved that objective. Because they refuse to charge Trump, the observations about laws being broken to the point of earning felonies in normal and fair circumstances are therefore specious. This logic, how could it possibly be unconvincing?
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Last edited by Aridas; 27th June 2020 at 08:40 PM.
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Old 27th June 2020, 08:53 PM   #436
TahiniBinShawarma
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Originally Posted by Aridas;[LIST=1
[*]13139862]There is. I have no problem with saying that it's not proof[/list][/color]

I didn't ask for proof. I asked for any evidence of Russia funneling money through the NRA to campaigns. You and others have provided zero evidence. You've gish galloped all the way pointing to evidence that says nothing about Russia funneling money through the NRA.
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Old 27th June 2020, 08:59 PM   #437
Aridas
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Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma View Post
I didn't ask for proof. I asked for any evidence of Russia funneling money through the NRA to campaigns. You and others have provided zero evidence. You've gish galloped all the way pointing to evidence that says nothing about Russia funneling money through the NRA.
And in doing so, seem to be doing your best to to ignore the point I actually made.
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Old 27th June 2020, 09:04 PM   #438
TahiniBinShawarma
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Government refuses to charge Trump based on an OLC memo crafted to achieve a specific political end with Nixon and that achieved that objective. Because they refuse to charge Trump, the observations about laws being broken to the point of earning felonies in normal and fair circumstances are therefore specious. This logic, how could it possibly be unconvincing?

Which crime do you think Trump should have been charged with if not for the OLC memo?
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Old 27th June 2020, 09:08 PM   #439
TahiniBinShawarma
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
And in doing so, seem to be doing your best to to ignore the point I actually made.
Your point is that without any evidence that Russia funneled money through the NRA there should be an investigation because you and some democrats suspect it. It's not a very good point. Mueller would have ripped the NRA a new one if he had found evidence of this. He didn't, and he and the FBI looked.
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Old 27th June 2020, 09:09 PM   #440
Aridas
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Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma View Post
Your point is that without any evidence that Russia funneled money through the NRA there should be an investigation because you and some democrats suspect it. It's not a very good point. Mueller would have ripped the NRA a new one if he had found evidence of this. He didn't, and he and the FBI looked.
No, that wasn't my point. As has been made perfectly clear repeatedly. Nice try at the spin, though.

Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma View Post
Which crime do you think Trump should have been charged with if not for the OLC memo?
Alright. I'll take that as strong confirmation that you're a troll, if you're working to reset the discussion that quickly.
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Last edited by Aridas; 27th June 2020 at 09:11 PM.
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