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Tags court cases , donald trump , Michael Flynn , perjury cases , Robert Mueller , William Barr

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Old 12th August 2020, 01:02 AM   #961
Squeegee Beckenheim
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I've seen a couple of lawyers voice the opinion that if the court were going to support Flynn then they wouldn't have agreed to the en banc review in the first place. To grant the review requires a majority of the justices, and they are unlikely to want to do a review simply to add their voices to the original decision.

I've also seen more than one lawyer say that Sullivan was likely always going to grant the motion to dismiss.

Of course, this may end up backfiring, because it's also possible that since Sullivan was the person who filed for the en banc that he may be seen as an invested party and asked to recuse himself going forwards. So Flynn's fate may depend on which judge is chosen to replace Sullivan.
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Old 12th August 2020, 09:33 AM   #962
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
So Flynn's fate may depend on which judge is chosen to replace Sullivan.
Chosen by whom, I wonder?
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Old 13th August 2020, 03:31 AM   #963
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Chosen by whom, I wonder?
Random drawing.
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Old 14th August 2020, 04:47 PM   #964
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Quote:
The former FBI attorney, Kevin Clinesmith, will plead to a single felony count of making a false statement, though his lawyer said it was not his intent to mislead the court that approved the original warrant in 2016 and three renewals in 2017.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...a-probe-395317

I wonder what Flynn defenders will say?

"They can't prove intent!"

"The FBI refuses to turn over every single intermediary work product related to his case!!!1"

"Where's the audio recording of the interview?"

"Maybe he just forgot the truth during the interview?"

"They got him to plead guilty by threatening to ruin him through the cost of defense lawyers."

"Process crime!"

Or perhaps:

"*crickets*"

(The above should not be construed as a defense of Mr. Clinesmith.)

Last edited by Beeyon; 14th August 2020 at 04:48 PM.
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Old 14th August 2020, 08:44 PM   #965
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Originally Posted by Beeyon View Post
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...a-probe-395317

I wonder what Flynn defenders will say?

"They can't prove intent!"

"The FBI refuses to turn over every single intermediary work product related to his case!!!1"

"Where's the audio recording of the interview?"

"Maybe he just forgot the truth during the interview?"

"They got him to plead guilty by threatening to ruin him through the cost of defense lawyers."

"Process crime!"

Or perhaps:

"*crickets*"

(The above should not be construed as a defense of Mr. Clinesmith.)
Cute.
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Old 31st August 2020, 09:19 AM   #966
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Appeals court denies Flynn and DOJ effort to end his case.
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Old 31st August 2020, 11:14 AM   #967
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Indeed - an 8 to 2 ruling by the Appeals Court. Here is the ruling (embedded document at CNN website)
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Old 31st August 2020, 11:31 AM   #968
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Hmm. The 2 that originally ruled to end the case were the only ones that voted again to end the case?
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Old 31st August 2020, 11:46 AM   #969
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https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...8-31-2020.html

Flynn's petition for mandamus is denied by the en banc Circuit Court for the District of Columbia.

Highlights:

- 8-2, with the 2 dissenters being the majority from the original panel.

- The decision provides Sullivan with an extremely short leash. I think it's fair to say the subtext is "we don't think the executive gets to tell you to grant their motion to dismiss, but we are telling you to grant the motion to dimiss, and don't get cute while coming to your "decision"!"

- Henderson's dissent is all about reassigning the case to a new judge. In her view, Sullivan's en banc request breaks the camel's back. I think it interesting that neither the original panel decision nor her participation on that panel's oral arguments indicated that the camel was so heavily loaded to begin with.

- The mechanism by which the case went en banc is strange. Henderson focuses on Sullivan request, because only parties can make such requests. The en banc majority says that one of their ranks sua sponte requested a vote. Looking back at the original order, it doesn't indicate either a petition for en banc being granted or a sua sponte order being made. The original order appears to have been crafted anticipating a need to walk a fine line.

- Griffith, a republican appointed judge who sided with the en banc majority, concurs with the per curiam to reject the idea that this decision is playing out the party politics of the appointing presidents. This has to be in reference to Henderson and Rao (both republican appointees) being the sole dissenters.

- Rao doesn't seem to have tuned up her "think of what could happen to the executive!" argument in the intervening month. Whoever wrote the per curium did so to make it as palatable as possible to anyone with doubts about Sullivan's behavior. Rao did not take a similar approach. It is not surprising that she got no additional votes.


It will be interesting to see if Flynn appeals to SCOTUS now, or if he let's Sullivan play out his hearing. The former option appears unlikely to result in a win during the remainder of Trump's term. The latter option really could be resolved by December. It will be an excellent test of whether Flynn is more motivated by results or grandstanding.
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Old 31st August 2020, 11:47 AM   #970
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Hmm. The 2 that originally ruled to end the case were the only ones that voted again to end the case?

Correct.
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Old 12th September 2020, 02:26 AM   #971
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https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1304450096948482048

Quote:
JUST IN: Adviser appointed by Judge Sullivan in FLYNN case urges him to deny DOJ's motion to dismiss the case, calling its decision a clear pretext for Trump's pressure campaign. Flynn's guilt is "obvious" he argues.
Excerpt embedded in tweet, and more in subsequent tweets. He's not mincing his words.
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Old 21st September 2020, 04:23 AM   #972
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Going to jail to own the libs. Gotta admire the commitment to the bit.

Quote:
A Manorville man has been arrested and charged with threatening the life of a federal judge in the District of Columbia, according to court records.

...

Sources familiar with the case, however, say that the unnamed judge was Emmet Sullivan who has figured prominently in the news because of his role in declining to immediately dismiss the case against former Trump national security adviser Michael Flynn.

The court papers say that Caporusso was charged in August in Washington with threatening to kill the judge and making the threat in a communication in interstate commerce.
https://www.newsday.com/long-island/...ase-1.49152996

Quote:
This is not a threat. This is a promise.
Narrator voice: It was, in fact, a threat
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Old 22nd September 2020, 02:58 AM   #973
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Quote:
"Marshals, with the aid of AT&T, were able to trace the call and a number of others that day to the judge’s chambers back to a phone that Caporusso had been using since 2003, the court records said."
Its just as well these types of scumbags are stupid.

Has this guy never heard of a burner phone?
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Old 22nd September 2020, 10:55 AM   #974
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Its just as well these types of scumbags are stupid.

Has this guy never heard of a burner phone?
A burner phone isn’t as safe as it used to be. They’ve got serial numbers that can be traced to where they were sold and cameras in stores with virtually unlimited storage capacity mean that your picture with a time stamp is likely to be available to the cops. Paying cash may slow things down, but at the end of the day it’s still 2020...
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Old 22nd September 2020, 12:36 PM   #975
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
A burner phone isn’t as safe as it used to be. They’ve got serial numbers that can be traced to where they were sold and cameras in stores with virtually unlimited storage capacity mean that your picture with a time stamp is likely to be available to the cops. Paying cash may slow things down, but at the end of the day it’s still 2020...
They still have to be safer than using a phone that is registered in the perp's own name.

I bet I could buy a burner without being identified if I really wanted to.
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Old 22nd September 2020, 01:25 PM   #976
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
They still have to be safer than using a phone that is registered in the perp's own name.

I bet I could buy a burner without being identified if I really wanted to.
It's easier now that masks are normalized, but precautions would still be necessary. For example, don't buy at a 7-11 or similar national chain (too many cameras and strong record-keeping), park at least a block away to avoid parking lot cameras, and don't call more than one phone number with each burner.
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Old 22nd September 2020, 02:11 PM   #977
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
It's easier now that masks are normalized, but precautions would still be necessary. For example, don't buy at a 7-11 or similar national chain (too many cameras and strong record-keeping), park at least a block away to avoid parking lot cameras, and don't call more than one phone number with each burner.
Know this from personal experience, heh?
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Old 22nd September 2020, 02:27 PM   #978
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Know this from personal experience, heh?
If only my life was that interesting or I was that nutty (the latter would presumably result in the former). No, I just think about these things a lot. I'd offer a couple more tips but at some point I have to draw a line between giving tips to be humorous and offering a complete plan that might actually be criminally useful.
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Old 22nd September 2020, 03:37 PM   #979
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Personally, Max and I just use our shoe phones.
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Old 24th September 2020, 02:32 PM   #980
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https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/...92.248.0_2.pdf
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Old 24th September 2020, 03:03 PM   #981
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Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma View Post
Try giving us an idea of what this is. Otherwise I'm not going to both even opening it.
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Old 24th September 2020, 04:18 PM   #982
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Personally, Max and I just use our shoe phones.
.... would you believe.....
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Old 24th September 2020, 11:27 PM   #983
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
.... would you believe.....
Meet me under the Dome of Silence and we'll discuss it.
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Old 25th September 2020, 12:38 AM   #984
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Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma View Post
Seems complicated. A federal judge might be able to give us more detail on that. Why don't you DM Maryanne Trump Barry and ask her for comment? I hear she has a twitter account now.
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Old 25th September 2020, 09:16 AM   #985
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Try giving us an idea of what this is. Otherwise I'm not going to both even opening it.
DOJ scraping the barrel.
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Old 5th October 2020, 08:33 AM   #986
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This seems to have got lost over the last week: one of Strzok's lawyers told Judge Sullivan that some notes handwritten by Strzok had been altered by the Justice Department

That seems major and egregious even in this day and age.
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Old 5th October 2020, 11:00 AM   #987
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
This seems to have got lost over the last week: one of Strzok's lawyers told Judge Sullivan that some notes handwritten by Strzok had been altered by the Justice Department

That seems major and egregious even in this day and age.
Holy Cow! That is a very serious offence, carrying a potential 20 years in the slammer.
18 USC § 1519: Destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in Federal investigations and bankruptcy
Whoever knowingly alters, destroys, mutilates, conceals, covers up, falsifies, or makes a false entry in any record, document, or tangible object with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence the investigation or proper administration of any matter within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of the United States or any case filed under title 11, or in relation to or contemplation of any such matter or case, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.

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Old 5th October 2020, 01:14 PM   #988
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
This seems to have got lost over the last week: one of Strzok's lawyers told Judge Sullivan that some notes handwritten by Strzok had been altered by the Justice Department

That seems major and egregious even in this day and age.
Can you c&p the important parts? Paywall.
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Old 6th October 2020, 12:39 AM   #989
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Can you c&p the important parts? Paywall.
Quote:
Separately, in a letter docketed on Monday night, a lawyer for Mr. Strzok told Judge Sullivan that someone had altered handwritten notes by his client in one of the recent batches of internal materials turned over to Ms. Powell — adding two dates to them that he did not write, including one that suggested a White House meeting happened earlier than it did.

Judge Sullivan ordered the Justice Department to provide a sworn declaration certifying whether the materials submitted to him “were true and accurate,” saying he was “floored” by the “unsettling” claim that they had been modified.
..
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Old 6th October 2020, 12:41 AM   #990
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Thank you.
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Old 6th October 2020, 12:43 AM   #991
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Flynn's lawyer will be extremely lucky if she gets out of this with her license in hand.
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Old 6th October 2020, 01:29 AM   #992
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Flynn's lawyer will be extremely lucky if she gets out of this with her license in hand.
I think she will be lucky to stay out of jail. Remember that this judge was the one who, way back, said this about Flynn.

“I am going to be frank with you, this crime is very serious, I can’t hide my disgust, my disdain, at this criminal offence.”

He even questioned if what Flynn did in working for the interests of the Turkish government might have been treason. He strikes me as someone who does not suffer fools gladly.

Oh, I can hear the Trumpistas of the forum all bleating "process crime", but I don't know of any process crime that can land you 20 years in the slammer!
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Old 6th October 2020, 01:37 AM   #993
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Nah, she has a Trump pardon in the bag.
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Old 6th October 2020, 01:49 AM   #994
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On a podcast I listen to (I can't remember if it was Opening Arguments or All The President's Lawyers, but it was one of the two) the lawyer host opined that throughout the hearing Powell had been speaking to "an audience of one", implying that what she said to the court was less important than what she said in front of Trump via the court.
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Old 6th October 2020, 03:26 AM   #995
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Flynn's lawyer will be extremely lucky if she gets out of this with her license in hand.
What did Flynn's lawyer do?
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Old 6th October 2020, 03:28 AM   #996
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Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
What did Flynn's lawyer do?
I think it got to the stage of saying she was considering filing a motion to remove the judge on the grounds he was biased against her/her client.
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Old 6th October 2020, 03:32 AM   #997
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Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
What did Flynn's lawyer do?
Introduce tempered evidence.
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Old 6th October 2020, 04:20 AM   #998
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Originally Posted by Aber View Post
I think it got to the stage of saying she was considering filing a motion to remove the judge on the grounds he was biased against her/her client.
Yes, but surely that wouldn't be grounds for disbarment?
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Old 6th October 2020, 04:22 AM   #999
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Introduce tempered evidence.
I thought that evidence was introduced by the prosecution? In any case if it were to turn out that the justice department tampered with evidence in the way alleged, it seems to be a few hops of logic to get to the defence lawyer losing her license. How do we get there?

Last edited by shuttlt; 6th October 2020 at 04:24 AM.
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Old 6th October 2020, 04:28 AM   #1000
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Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
Yes, but surely that wouldn't be grounds for disbarment?
Probably not on its own
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