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Old 16th July 2020, 01:10 PM   #401
Captain_Swoop
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The White House Press Secretary on Trump's push to reopen schools
"The science should not stand in the way of this."
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Old 16th July 2020, 02:24 PM   #402
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
The White House Press Secretary on Trump's push to reopen schools
"The science should not stand in the way of this."
I think I know what she meant to say, but what she actually said would look good in a Democratic video on youtube.
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Old 16th July 2020, 02:32 PM   #403
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Originally Posted by carlosy View Post
I'll have to investigate if there was a hospitalizations and deaths daily page that the CDC previously had.

It's encouraging to see Trump's attempts to deal the CDC out thwarted.
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Old 16th July 2020, 02:34 PM   #404
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Restored after serious objections, if I read correctly, albeit not going to be updated further?
Oh dear.
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Old 16th July 2020, 02:35 PM   #405
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I think I know what she meant to say, but what she actually said would look good in a Democratic video on youtube.
You do?
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Old 16th July 2020, 02:41 PM   #406
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
You do?
I strongly suspect that she meant, "There is nothing in the scientific studies which should stand in the way of reopening schools." i.e. the science says it's safe enough to open schools.

What came out was more like, "We don't care what the science says. We want to open up regardless."

The second version, while it probably isn't what she meant to say, is probably a more accurate statement of White House policy.
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Old 16th July 2020, 02:48 PM   #407
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Georgia governor Kemp just banned cities and counties from requiring masks. What on earth is it with Republicans??
Hard to believe. As CBS News reports, Governor Brian Kemp is forcing local governments in Georgia to rescind any requirement that residents wear face masks. This effects at least fifteen local governments including the City of Atlanta.
Quote:
The Republican governor has instead been trying to encourage voluntary mask wearing, including telling fans that reduced infections from mask-wearing would make college football season possible...Kemp said Wednesday that the federal government has sent 32,600 vials of the antiviral drug remdesivir, which has been shown to aid people with infections. Kemp said that was enough to treat up to 5,400 patients. The governor said that from now on, hospitals will generally be able to buy the drug directly, although smaller federal shipments to Georgia will continue.

Wednesday's numbers showed nearly 2,800 people hospitalized statewide with the COVID-19 respiratory illness, the highest on record and a number that's nearly doubled since the beginning of the month. The state reports 84% of hospitals' available critical beds are in use, although some hospitals say they have opened up more space and have more room...The rising COVID-19 case numbers prompted Atlanta Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms to order the city to reverse its reopening plan and return to Phase 1 last week. "Georgia reopened in a reckless manner and the people of our city and state are suffering the consequences," Bottoms said. CBS News link
These Republican supporters go back and forth with this. If a governor does something they don't like they cry local rule. If a city, town or county enacts something they don't like they appeal to the governor. Or donald trump. But with almost all of them, they won't discuss the medical science involved. They refuse to acknowledge the polling that shows the majority of Americans think wearing a face mask is a good idea. That's a conversation they're not having. It becomes impossible to work with people like this.

Meantime, the virus in Georgia keeps growing:
.
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Old 16th July 2020, 03:00 PM   #408
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I strongly suspect that she meant, "There is nothing in the scientific studies which should stand in the way of reopening schools." i.e. the science says it's safe enough to open schools.

What came out was more like, "We don't care what the science says. We want to open up regardless."

The second version, while it probably isn't what she meant to say, is probably a more accurate statement of White House policy.
What has this administration done to warrant any benefit of the doubt?
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Old 16th July 2020, 03:03 PM   #409
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Hard to believe. As CBS News reports, Governor Brian Kemp is forcing local governments in Georgia to rescind any requirement that residents wear face masks. This effects at least fifteen local governments including the City of Atlanta.


These Republican supporters go back and forth with this. If a governor does something they don't like they cry local rule. If a city, town or county enacts something they don't like they appeal to the governor. Or donald trump. But with almost all of them, they won't discuss the medical science involved. They refuse to acknowledge the polling that shows the majority of Americans think wearing a face mask is a good idea. That's a conversation they're not having. It becomes impossible to work with people like this.

Meantime, the virus in Georgia keeps growing:
.
FREEDUMB!!!
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Old 16th July 2020, 03:10 PM   #410
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Hard to believe. As CBS News reports, Governor Brian Kemp is forcing local governments in Georgia to rescind any requirement that residents wear face masks. This effects at least fifteen local governments including the City of Atlanta.


These Republican supporters go back and forth with this. If a governor does something they don't like they cry local rule. If a city, town or county enacts something they don't like they appeal to the governor. Or donald trump. But with almost all of them, they won't discuss the medical science involved. They refuse to acknowledge the polling that shows the majority of Americans think wearing a face mask is a good idea. That's a conversation they're not having. It becomes impossible to work with people like this.

Meantime, the virus in Georgia keeps growing:
.
Does he get up in the morning and ask "How can I **** things up even more?"
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Old 16th July 2020, 03:13 PM   #411
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I strongly suspect that she meant, "There is nothing in the scientific studies which should stand in the way of reopening schools." i.e. the science says it's safe enough to open schools.

What came out was more like, "We don't care what the science says. We want to open up regardless."

The second version, while it probably isn't what she meant to say, is probably a more accurate statement of White House policy.
So she's wrong either way?
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Old 16th July 2020, 03:16 PM   #412
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I strongly suspect that she meant, "There is nothing in the scientific studies which should stand in the way of reopening schools." i.e. the science says it's safe enough to open schools.

What came out was more like, "We don't care what the science says. We want to open up regardless."

The second version, while it probably isn't what she meant to say, is probably a more accurate statement of White House policy.
The full quote, though, began with

"'The science is on our side here,' McEnany told reporters gathered in the James S. Brady Briefing Room Thursday afternoon."

So, yeah, I'm pretty sure that's what she meant.

But the out of context quote is funnier. I have only a limited amount of outrage available for an out of context quote that hurts Donald Trump.
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Old 16th July 2020, 03:19 PM   #413
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McEnany: "The president has said unmistakably that he wants schools to open. When he says open, he means open and full, kids being able to attend each and every day at their school. The science should not stand in the way of this." http://cbsnews.com/live
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Old 16th July 2020, 03:19 PM   #414
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
FREEDUMB!!!
Time for my standard comment about Georgia needing another iittle visit from General Sherman.
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Old 16th July 2020, 03:21 PM   #415
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Does he get up in the morning and ask "How can I **** things up even more?"

Kemp seems to be in competition with De Santis in Florida in that area.
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Old 16th July 2020, 03:27 PM   #416
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Kemp seems to be in competition with De Santis in Florida in that area.
Two different breeds of Trump lapdog.
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Old 16th July 2020, 03:35 PM   #417
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
McEnany: "The president has said unmistakably that he wants schools to open. When he says open, he means open and full, kids being able to attend each and every day at their school. The science should not stand in the way of this." http://cbsnews.com/live
"The President told me this very morning that he thinks killing families is just a bit of fun, a lark. He says that he's accepted that he's not going to win reelection and this may be his last chance to really stick it to the American people."
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Old 16th July 2020, 03:52 PM   #418
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Hard to believe. As CBS News reports, Governor Brian Kemp is forcing local governments in Georgia to rescind any requirement that residents wear face masks. This effects at least fifteen local governments including the City of Atlanta.


These Republican supporters go back and forth with this. If a governor does something they don't like they cry local rule. If a city, town or county enacts something they don't like they appeal to the governor. Or donald trump. But with almost all of them, they won't discuss the medical science involved. They refuse to acknowledge the polling that shows the majority of Americans think wearing a face mask is a good idea. That's a conversation they're not having. It becomes impossible to work with people like this.

Meantime, the virus in Georgia keeps growing:
.
The weird thing is that he's as pro-mask as a Republican governor there is. He flew around the state on a "mask up Georgia" tour, and reminded people to wear masks, even threatening that the college football could be cancelled if people fail to stop the spread.
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Old 16th July 2020, 04:06 PM   #419
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
The full quote, though, began with

"'The science is on our side here,' McEnany told reporters gathered in the James S. Brady Briefing Room Thursday afternoon."

So, yeah, I'm pretty sure that's what she meant.

But the out of context quote is funnier. I have only a limited amount of outrage available for an out of context quote that hurts Donald Trump.

I don't see why people are deliberately cutting off her explanation in full. I mean, i understand why, I just don't see why people are aware but celebrating the misrepresentation..


Quote:
The president has said unmistakably that he wants schools to open. And I was just in the Oval talking to him about that. And when he says open, he means open and full, kids being able to attend each and every day at their school. The science should not stand in the way of this. And as Dr. Scott Atlas said, I thought this was a good quote. Of course, we can do it. Everyone else in the Western world, our peer nations are doing it. We are the outlier here. The science is very clear on this that for instance, you look at the JAMA Pediatric study of 46 pediatric hospitals in North America that said the risk of critical illness from COVID is far less for children than that of seasonal flu.

The science is on our side here, and we encourage for localities and states to just simply follow the science, open our schools. It’s very damaging to our children. There’s a lack of reporting of abuse, there’s mental depressions that are not addressed, suicidal ideations that are not addressed when students are not in school. Our schools are extremely important. They’re essential and they must reopen. Yes.

If you disagree with the science she is referencing, perfectly reasonable to debate it though.
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Old 16th July 2020, 04:20 PM   #420
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Originally Posted by rdwight View Post
If you disagree with the science she is referencing, perfectly reasonable to debate it though.
Other countries are doing it because they, for the most part, have their Covid-19 problem under control or can at least see the light at the end of the tunnel. The United States is drowning in new infections and it's only getting worse.

Also, focusing on how the virus on average affects children (setting aside the callous disregard demonstrated by purposely putting children in a position to be infected with a virus that absolutely can kill them, even if it does so very rarely) ignores the secondary infections that will surely result from school infections. Teachers and other school employees will get sick, parents and other family members will get sick.
  • Children, especially younger ones, will not properly socially distance themselves from their classmates if that's even possible.
  • Children, especially younger ones, will not maintain good mask discipline.
  • Asymptomatic (and some symptomatic, for that matter) children absolutely will infect other children.
  • Even if the problem stopped only with infecting children (it won't), some of those children will end up hospitalized from the infection, and a few of those children will die.

It's a bad situation, no doubt, and I'm not happy about the expense of dealing with current school-aged children ending up spending an extra 6 months to a year in public schools (ameliorated somewhat by distance learning at home), but the answer to this issue isn't "**** it, we're opening the schools no matter what."
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Old 16th July 2020, 04:26 PM   #421
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Originally Posted by rdwight View Post
I don't see why people are deliberately cutting off her explanation in full. I mean, i understand why, I just don't see why people are aware but celebrating the misrepresentation..

If you disagree with the science she is referencing, perfectly reasonable to debate it though.
You aren't connecting all the dots. Yes, the COVID virus may not be very deadly for children. But that doesn't mean it isn't deadly for their teachers, their counselors, the janitors or the children's parents and other relatives.

Ninja'd by Babbylonian. Not to mention, his post is much better than mine.
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Old 16th July 2020, 04:36 PM   #422
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Originally Posted by rdwight View Post
...If you disagree with the science she is referencing, perfectly reasonable to debate it though.
What science? No other country is considering reopening schools while the virus is still surging as it is in the U.S. Kayleigh McEnany said, "Everyone else in the Western world, our peer nations are doing it. We are the outlier here." The U.S. IS the outlier here, no doubt about that. The chart below is for March 1st through June 28th. If it was updated to July 15th the difference between the EU and the United States would be even more drastic.
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Old 16th July 2020, 05:05 PM   #423
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Here's U.S. trending after June 28th. It's almost doubled.
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Old 16th July 2020, 05:05 PM   #424
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Other countries are doing it because they, for the most part, have their Covid-19 problem under control or can at least see the light at the end of the tunnel. The United States is drowning in new infections and it's only getting worse.

Also, focusing on how the virus on average affects children (setting aside the callous disregard demonstrated by purposely putting children in a position to be infected with a virus that absolutely can kill them, even if it does so very rarely) ignores the secondary infections that will surely result from school infections. Teachers and other school employees will get sick, parents and other family members will get sick.
  • Children, especially younger ones, will not properly socially distance themselves from their classmates if that's even possible.
  • Children, especially younger ones, will not maintain good mask discipline.
  • Asymptomatic (and some symptomatic, for that matter) children absolutely will infect other children.
  • Even if the problem stopped only with infecting children (it won't), some of those children will end up hospitalized from the infection, and a few of those children will die.

It's a bad situation, no doubt, and I'm not happy about the expense of dealing with current school-aged children ending up spending an extra 6 months to a year in public schools (ameliorated somewhat by distance learning at home), but the answer to this issue isn't "**** it, we're opening the schools no matter what."
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
You aren't connecting all the dots. Yes, the COVID virus may not be very deadly for children. But that doesn't mean it isn't deadly for their teachers, their counselors, the janitors or the children's parents and other relatives.

Ninja'd by Babbylonian. Not to mention, his post is much better than mine.
Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
What science? No other country is considering reopening schools while the virus is still surging as it is in the U.S. Kayleigh McEnany said, "Everyone else in the Western world, our peer nations are doing it. We are the outlier here." The U.S. IS the outlier here, no doubt about that. The chart below is for March 1st through June 28th. If it was updated to July 15th the difference between the EU and the United States would be even more drastic.


I feel like I didn't make my point clear. All of these are completely valid, and because you guys took the time to voice them I will give my view since I have less than a month to decide on my own children's school plans. But the main issue I have is with the characterization of what she said, and the obvious editing of length to put forward a snippet that doesn't reflect what was said. The fact it is being spread widely and prominently by even mainstream news sources is not a good look to me.


As for the science, I would say it is definitely not settled at all at this point, which is why most school districts are still dealing with getting a plan together on what they are going to do. Of the plans currently circulating, I don't see anything that make sense besides making people feel better that they are attempting something.

Limited class sizes, seating distances as much as possible, split in school and at home learning switching on and off between weeks, masks for students all day, deep cleaning classrooms every few days. None of this seems more than a small minimization of risk.

But we do have to admit that two working parent families/singe parent families exist, and are by no means rare. Instead of school, children will be put in less controlled day cares, or taken care of by grandparents, increasing their exposure.

Closing schools will cause undue hardship on the poorest segments of people. It does seem like there is a level of opposition from those like myself who have the ability to deal with this without major disruptions normal life that lacks any nuance to others situations. Saving lives is a wonderful goal but I haven't seen any science coming out that puts forward the risks of each situation and makes a glaringly obvious distinction. Given the disruption this will cause on top of every other covid related problem people have to deal with, I think a we need some very solid data showing a statistically significant reason to keep schools closed.
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Old 16th July 2020, 05:34 PM   #425
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Originally Posted by rdwight View Post
Given the disruption this will cause on top of every other covid related problem people have to deal with, I think a we need some very solid data showing a statistically significant reason to keep schools closed.
This specific thing has to be proven with statistics? We know that the infection spreads between people in close proximity; even if class populations were cut in half we know that children in schools will be in close proximity (for up to 6 hours per day!). We know that temperature checks (a common "precaution" utilized currently by businesses) won't identify asymptomatic carriers and so there is no way to prevent these children from going to school. What more information do you need? A couple pilot programs so we can see how many more dead people result from sending kids back to school?

We're in the situation we're in now because we haven't had the will to do what was necessary to stem the tide of this illness. We never had a chance since our government leaders completely failed us by treating this as a political issue rather than a science issue.

We're already screwed unless/until there's an effective vaccine and a comprehensive inoculation program. I don't see why we should screw ourselves worse and give our children the responsibility of being the next epicenter of sickness and death.

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Old 16th July 2020, 06:16 PM   #426
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Originally Posted by rdwight View Post
I feel like I didn't make my point clear. All of these are completely valid, and because you guys took the time to voice them I will give my view since I have less than a month to decide on my own children's school plans. But the main issue I have is with the characterization of what she said, and the obvious editing of length to put forward a snippet that doesn't reflect what was said. The fact it is being spread widely and prominently by even mainstream news sources is not a good look to me.


As for the science, I would say it is definitely not settled at all at this point, which is why most school districts are still dealing with getting a plan together on what they are going to do. Of the plans currently circulating, I don't see anything that make sense besides making people feel better that they are attempting something.

Limited class sizes, seating distances as much as possible, split in school and at home learning switching on and off between weeks, masks for students all day, deep cleaning classrooms every few days. None of this seems more than a small minimization of risk.

But we do have to admit that two working parent families/singe parent families exist, and are by no means rare. Instead of school, children will be put in less controlled day cares, or taken care of by grandparents, increasing their exposure.

Closing schools will cause undue hardship on the poorest segments of people. It does seem like there is a level of opposition from those like myself who have the ability to deal with this without major disruptions normal life that lacks any nuance to others situations. Saving lives is a wonderful goal but I haven't seen any science coming out that puts forward the risks of each situation and makes a glaringly obvious distinction. Given the disruption this will cause on top of every other covid related problem people have to deal with, I think a we need some very solid data showing a statistically significant reason to keep schools closed.
That last part ought to be the kind of thing that hardly needs to be said. Alas, in Donald Trump's America, science isn't the number one reason for doing anything. And it's not completely Donald Trump and his friends that are guilty of that. Plenty of people pick and choose science that they think makes Trump look bad. However, the Trump administration sets the tone. "A fish rots from the head."*

In a decent world, not even a perfect one, the words of a Presidential Press Secretary wouldn't be a big story. Instead, the task force, or a subgroup within the task force, would gather real data, analyze it, and publish it. There would be a "conclusions and recommendations" section, which would include guidance about schools opening, and for people who are skeptical of those conclusions, and willing and able to think through a statistical and data based argument, there would be enough data to see how those conclusions were arrived at.

At that point, there still could be disputes. There really is a tradeoff between number of people who die and the degredation of quality of life due to trying to minimize the number of deaths. In other words, if we kept schools shut down to save 100 lives, I would say it's not worth it. If we kept schools shut down to save 100,000 lives, you would have to work hard to convince me that opening them was a good idea.

Unfortunately, in the real America we live in, the administration wants a particular outcome, and they will declare that outcome is what will happen, science be damned.

As for "the science" that the Press Secretary referred to today, here it is:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2766037

I think the conclusion she drew from the paper is a bit premature. Her comparison between flu and COVID-19 It was based on number of pediatric deaths from Covid-19 versus the flue between Jan 1, 2020 and April 28, 2020. Before making a decision about what to do in September of 2020, I think a refresher on the data, and a bit deeper analysis, is in order.

****************
*I picked up that saying from Michael Dukakis. George H. W. Bush made much of that line, expressing outrage that someone would compare the President of the United States to a rotting fish. Today, I think the outrage would come from the fish.

Last edited by Meadmaker; 16th July 2020 at 06:20 PM.
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Old 16th July 2020, 06:59 PM   #427
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
That last part ought to be the kind of thing that hardly needs to be said. Alas, in Donald Trump's America, science isn't the number one reason for doing anything. And it's not completely Donald Trump and his friends that are guilty of that. Plenty of people pick and choose science that they think makes Trump look bad. However, the Trump administration sets the tone. "A fish rots from the head."*

In a decent world, not even a perfect one, the words of a Presidential Press Secretary wouldn't be a big story. Instead, the task force, or a subgroup within the task force, would gather real data, analyze it, and publish it. There would be a "conclusions and recommendations" section, which would include guidance about schools opening, and for people who are skeptical of those conclusions, and willing and able to think through a statistical and data based argument, there would be enough data to see how those conclusions were arrived at.

At that point, there still could be disputes. There really is a tradeoff between number of people who die and the degredation of quality of life due to trying to minimize the number of deaths. In other words, if we kept schools shut down to save 100 lives, I would say it's not worth it. If we kept schools shut down to save 100,000 lives, you would have to work hard to convince me that opening them was a good idea.

Unfortunately, in the real America we live in, the administration wants a particular outcome, and they will declare that outcome is what will happen, science be damned.

As for "the science" that the Press Secretary referred to today, here it is:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2766037

I think the conclusion she drew from the paper is a bit premature. Her comparison between flu and COVID-19 It was based on number of pediatric deaths from Covid-19 versus the flue between Jan 1, 2020 and April 28, 2020. Before making a decision about what to do in September of 2020, I think a refresher on the data, and a bit deeper analysis, is in order.

****************
*I picked up that saying from Michael Dukakis. George H. W. Bush made much of that line, expressing outrage that someone would compare the President of the United States to a rotting fish. Today, I think the outrage would come from the fish.
That link you provided deals with PICUs - why do you think that is what she was referring to?
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Old 16th July 2020, 07:21 PM   #428
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
That link you provided deals with PICUs - why do you think that is what she was referring to?
Because it was a JAMA study of pediatric ICUs in 46 hospitals, and compared death counts between Covid and the flu, exactly as McEnany said.

Last edited by Meadmaker; 16th July 2020 at 07:22 PM.
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Old 16th July 2020, 07:23 PM   #429
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
This specific thing has to be proven with statistics? We know that the infection spreads between people in close proximity; even if class populations were cut in half we know that children in schools will be in close proximity (for up to 6 hours per day!). We know that temperature checks (a common "precaution" utilized currently by businesses) won't identify asymptomatic carriers and so there is no way to prevent these children from going to school. What more information do you need? A couple pilot programs so we can see how many more dead people result from sending kids back to school?
Is that a serious question on a skeptics forum? Yes, we need data. Because it's not as simple as "we'll just keep schools closed and that'll fix things.. for now.. maybe."

Where do you think all these kids go when they don't go to school? Does everyone have a budget for day care if they work? Do they all have dependable child care to fall back on? Can one parent or the other leave their job to homeschool? It's easy to say we'll just not send them to that place, and completely overlook that they are going to go someplace else. And there will be a cost, to parents, that a certain percentage won't be able to meet.

Which can put kids in riskier situations. And their families. That doesn't even get into any of the many problems that can arise in regards to socialization, special needs and occupational therapy offered in school but not always possible with virtual learning etc. You're being simplistic in your answer because you want to avoid the myriad of other issues, or you don't know about them.



Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
We're in the situation we're in now because we haven't had the will to do what was necessary to stem the tide of this illness. We never had a chance since our government leaders completely failed us by treating this as a political issue rather than a science issue.

We're already screwed unless/until there's an effective vaccine and a comprehensive inoculation program. I don't see why we should screw ourselves worse and give our children the responsibility of being the next epicenter of sickness and death.
So we cannot take studies from other countries like Sweden that kept their schools open and get an idea of the risk? Compare it to other nordic countries that closed schools and see what differences we find, whether between child cases or teachers, whether they were important in the spread to the community etc.

We can't look at Israel and see how large of a spread was caused by opening schools compared to the rest of the economy? Disagreeing with the path that was taken is fine, but acting as if your intuition on this is somehow correct when I don't see some general consensus in the scientific community about school openings and closings.

And that is just based on the science of spread and risk. Not the totality of everything involved beyond that. If you have some specific studies you want to reference they show me to be ignorant, please post it. I am not at all set on any one direction we should go, mainly because there are still so many things that we don't know.
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Old 16th July 2020, 08:41 PM   #430
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According to the LA Times there's a good chance that children will not prove to be significant spreaders of the virus:

Will children spread COVID-19 If they go back to school?

That doesn't mean schools aren't good places for teachers to catch it from other adults.
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Old 16th July 2020, 09:05 PM   #431
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I strongly suspect that she meant, "There is nothing in the scientific studies which should stand in the way of reopening schools." i.e. the science says it's safe enough to open schools.

What came out was more like, "We don't care what the science says. We want to open up regardless."

The second version, while it probably isn't what she meant to say, is probably a more accurate statement of White House policy.
The way the GOP takes words out of context, serves them right to get a taste of their own medicine.
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Old 16th July 2020, 09:14 PM   #432
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
You aren't connecting all the dots. Yes, the COVID virus may not be very deadly for children. But that doesn't mean it isn't deadly for their teachers, their counselors, the janitors or the children's parents and other relatives.

Ninja'd by Babbylonian. Not to mention, his post is much better than mine.
It also doesn't mean kids are at zero risk. This is a nasty virus and Trump's fantasy that it's not an issue for 99% of the population, that he can just open the economy up before Nov, sucks big time.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
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Old 16th July 2020, 09:18 PM   #433
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Because it was a JAMA study of pediatric ICUs in 46 hospitals, and compared death counts between Covid and the flu, exactly as McEnany said.
There are more things to consider than just the number of deaths. Not to mention that study is about
Quote:
46 North American PICUs, between March 14 and April 3, 2020, 48 children were admitted to 14 PICUs in the US and none in Canada.
That's completely inadequate of a study population and time frame.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

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Old 16th July 2020, 10:44 PM   #434
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
If you thought that the wackos in Palm Beach County, Florida were a lot of fun, check out this mask meeting in Utah. [nbc news] It had to be cancelled due to the room being "packed with unmasked people" and boy did they bring the crazy.
Quote:
“We are perpetuating a lie,” one woman who said she has five grandchildren said. “COVID is a hoax. It’s a lie. It’s a political stunt," The Salt Lake Tribune reported.

A mother suggested that masks cut down on a person’s oxygen, and a father said COVID-19 is no different than the flu, according to the Tribune.

Another parent of two children, ages 10 and 3, said she is concerned that wearing a mask would teach her older child to fear the world and that both of her kids would not learn proper socialization if their faces were covered, the Tribune reported.

“It’s going to rewire their brains,” the mother said. “I’m especially not going to send my son back to have his mind broken.”
You can't fix stupid. And these people are just plain
stupid.
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Old 16th July 2020, 11:13 PM   #435
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It also doesn't mean kids are at zero risk. This is a nasty virus and Trump's fantasy that it's not an issue for 99% of the population, that he can just open the economy up before Nov, sucks big time.
Of course, Trump's fantasy also doesn't address the fact that kids can get the virus, and not seem very sick, if at all, but are totally capable of passing it on to others.
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Old 17th July 2020, 12:15 AM   #436
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Oh dear.
And... things are not going well from the HHS side, by the looks of it.

Quote:
As the Idaho Statesman reports, the switchover had an immediate effect on the ability of state officials to see what was going on in their own states, with the spokesperson for the Idaho Department of Health reporting “significant challenges” in their ability to monitor the number of hospitalizations. With the way information is now being routed, it’s not being congregated at the state level, or available on the public website of the CDC. It’s all going into HHS, directly from individual hospitals, and what comes out the other side is only what the White House chooses to make available.
Elsewhere, this isn't just US Politics, but...

U.K. intelligence reports Russian hackers are infiltrating companies developing COVID-19 vaccines
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Old 17th July 2020, 02:08 AM   #437
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It also doesn't mean kids are at zero risk. This is a nasty virus and Trump's fantasy that it's not an issue for 99% of the population, that he can just open the economy up before Nov, sucks big time.
Perhaps it's a long-game strategy. Perhaps, sometime in early autumn, The PDJT will change his tune and start promoting mask-wearing with a vengeance, resulting in a marked reduction in transmission rates and all related data. He takes the credit, and actually gets some. This puts him over the top and gets him reelected. (Never mind all those people that could have been saved earlier.)
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Old 17th July 2020, 02:16 AM   #438
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Perhaps it's a long-game strategy.
I see no evidence of this kind of strategic thinking from the Trump Administration or the Trump Campaign. They seem to move tactically from one dumpster fire to the next.

I could see them do something, in a panic, in October, but not having planned it this far in advance.

Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Perhaps, sometime in early autumn, The PDJT will change his tune and start promoting mask-wearing with a vengeance, resulting in a marked reduction in transmission rates and all related data. He takes the credit, and actually gets some. This puts him over the top and gets him reelected. (Never mind all those people that could have been saved earlier.)
An easier way is to do what they've already done, take charge of the statistics. That way they can change the numbers without having to actually do anything to address the underlying issues.

I can foresee a drop in the number of reported cases as testing is largely abandoned and/or the definition of what constitutes a Covid-19 case is narrowed significantly and a corresponding reduction in the death toll (but there still being a huge number of "excess deaths" among people who haven't officially died of Covid-19)

That, and the grand announcement of a vaccine/cure in October may be enough to convince enough people that President Trump has conquered Covid-19 and reelect him
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Old 17th July 2020, 02:24 AM   #439
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Quote:
"We'll just keep schools closed and that'll fix things."
My understanding is, no one is really saying that. Even trump isn't claiming that. Instead, he has complained the CDC guidelines are "very tough [and] expensive." From CNN:
Quote:
The CDC has three different sets of recommendations in its guidelines for administrators: for communities where there's no virus spread, for those where there is minimal to moderate transmission, and for those where there is "substantial" spread. Link
The charge is made -- without evidence -- that American public health officials ignore what is working in other countries. I doubt that's true. In New York State the governor has said specifically that New York health officials are consulting with health officials in other countries.
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Old 17th July 2020, 02:28 AM   #440
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
...snip...

An easier way is to do what they've already done, take charge of the statistics. That way they can change the numbers without having to actually do anything to address the underlying issues.

...snip..
It really gets to heart of one of the major problems with our current popular politicians: It is the "numbers" that are the problem, so it is the numbers that need to be fixed. They are divorced from the numbers having any meaning beyond how it impacts them.
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