ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Coronavirus

Reply
Old 18th July 2020, 07:08 PM   #481
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 22,779
Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
They've changed the threshold for how light blue, blue etc. are picked. First map, light blue is 1-620. Second map, light blue is 1-949. The red starts at 2961 in the first map, 3769 in the second. IOW the red "hot zone" is not comparable to the red in the first map. One of these maps on its own would show you the rankings among counties, but comparing the maps is highly misleading.



Counties that were red in the first map can fall out of red in the second map, even if they have increased transmission. If the parameters were kept the same there would be more red counties in the second map.


Yes the thresholds were changed. But that may be just the default distribution for the map program. It doesn’t mean that it’s nefarious.

The question I would ask is who is showing that graph to whom and why? It’s a heat map of counties — which are doing better and which are doing worse per 100k of population. If it’s just one out of several standard graphs that get issued issued every week, I have zero issue with that. If it’s like that Mis-ordered data that Georgia showed when they first opened up, then obviously that’s a ridiculous misuse of numbers.

IIRC, when they first opened the state, they showed a chart of daily cases, which some moron had re-sorted, rather than showing the days in calendar order.
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2020, 07:16 PM   #482
Resume
Troublesome Passenger
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 17,198
Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Yesterday the United States reported an all-time high for new cases with over 75,000. Almost 15,000 of those cases were in Texas. Below are some quotes from NBC affiliate KXAN-TV in Austin. The news story was filed last night and it is very grim:
Lt. Gov Dan Patrick, you know, the guy who says Fauci doesn't know what he's talking about, who says there are more important things than living . . . he's on the front lines with the medical professionals and first responders, right?

He said he's no hero; no **** Sherlock.
__________________
He must be removed.

George Will on
President Donald J. Trump.
June 1, 2020
Resume is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2020, 08:06 PM   #483
newyorkguy
Penultimate Amazing
 
newyorkguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 11,200
Dan Patrick isn't backing down or backing off. This is from a column published two weeks ago in the Texas Tribune:
Quote:
This week, as Abbott was trying to find the handle on the alarming escalation of the coronavirus in Texas, Patrick was going the other way in television interviews, saying the Texas numbers aren’t bad, that news organizations are picking on states with Republican governors and giving a pass to those with Democratic governors...Patrick was more combative in an interview with Fox News host Laura Ingraham. “Fauci said today he’s concerned about states like Texas that ‘skipped over’ certain things. He doesn’t know what he’s talking about. We haven’t skipped over anything. The only thing I’m skipping over is listening to him.” Texas Tribune link
Back in May Patrick even posted bail for the owner of a hair salon who was arrested after opening up for business in defiance of a state mandate that hair salons, among other businesses, remain closed.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Dan Patrick.jpg (65.1 KB, 9 views)
newyorkguy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2020, 10:34 PM   #484
Lurch
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 1,542
Can't remember if I posted this here, but I did in some YT video comment section. .

Imagine if all these 140,000 deaths were at the hands of crafty pop-up terrorists, crying "Allah u ackbar!", blasting the victim with an AK, then disappearing into the woodwork. The US would be alternating between apoplectic rage and paralyzing fear. The Government would bend every effort and spend untold treasure to fix the problem.

But for a virus? Meh.
Lurch is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2020, 11:47 PM   #485
Puppycow
Penultimate Amazing
 
Puppycow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Yokohama, Japan
Posts: 25,376
White House seeks to block funds for coronavirus testing and tracing in relief bill, report says

Quote:
The White House is trying to block billions of dollars for coronavirus testing and contact tracing in the upcoming stimulus relief bill, according to a new report in The Washington Post, even as infections surge across the country and Americans face long wait times to receive test results amid high demand.

The Trump administration also wants to block billions of dollars that would go toward bolstering the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the Pentagon and the State Department to combat the pandemic, the Post reported Saturday, citing people familiar with the deliberations.
. . .

The Post report comes just hours after a piece in The New York Times detailed how the White House sought to shift responsibility for dealing with the pandemic to the state governments with disastrous results. The Times’ report was based on interviews with state and administration officials as well as emails and documents.

President Trump has publicly called coronavirus testing a “double-edged sword” and even suggested at a campaign rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma that officials should slow testing down. White House officials later said Trump was joking.

However, the Times report portrayed a president who feels boxed in by testing because cases counts inevitably increase as more people are tested, jeopardizing the reopening of the economy and potentially damaging his re-election chances.
__________________
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare
Puppycow is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2020, 12:10 AM   #486
timhau
NWO Litter Technician
 
timhau's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I?
Posts: 13,912
So much for Trump's "Deaths are down" BS. Hospitalization and deaths follow infections with a lag, exactly as predicted by everyone that isn't drinking his kool-aid.
__________________
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me.
- Emo Philips
timhau is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2020, 07:30 AM   #487
varwoche
Penultimate Amazing
 
varwoche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 15,121
Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Assume for a moment, for the sake of discussion, that Trump is not an agent for a hostile foreign power.

I'm unable to distinguish Trump's actions from those of an agent of a hostile foreign power, determined to wreak destruction, suffering, and destabilization.
__________________
To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
My authority is total - Trump
varwoche is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2020, 10:17 AM   #488
Meadmaker
Penultimate Amazing
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 23,042
Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
I read that headline yesterday and it seemed so unbelievable to me, even when one considers Trump. What possible justification could there be for this?
Meadmaker is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2020, 10:29 AM   #489
Minoosh
Penultimate Amazing
 
Minoosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 11,527
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I read that headline yesterday and it seemed so unbelievable to me, even when one considers Trump. What possible justification could there be for this?
He maybe thinks he can sweep all this under the rug? He's so self-centered that if he's not personally affected, he thinks no one is?
Minoosh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2020, 10:51 AM   #490
Safe-Keeper
Penultimate Amazing
 
Safe-Keeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Norway
Posts: 10,005
Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
Can't remember if I posted this here, but I did in some YT video comment section. .

Imagine if all these 140,000 deaths were at the hands of crafty pop-up terrorists, crying "Allah u ackbar!", blasting the victim with an AK, then disappearing into the woodwork. The US would be alternating between apoplectic rage and paralyzing fear. The Government would bend every effort and spend untold treasure to fix the problem.
Building on this: imagine if this happened and Obama was president. The intelligence community is worried about islamists in some foreign country and how they could strike in the US. Obama says it's a hoax by his political opponents to damage him. Terrorist attacks and killings reach the US. Obama says it's "just one guy coming in from Saudi-Arabia" and that they have everything under control. The death toll mounts. Obama says the terrorists will go away like a miracle. He advises people to do something equally stupid and dangerous as drinking bleach, getting multiple people injured and several killed, then says he was just joking to get a rise out of the conservatives. As tens of thousands die every day, he orders airports to relax security, because tight security just leads to more terrorists apprehended, and the terrorist threat is bad for his ratings. He then says he was just joking to trigger conservatives. He rails against whatever everyday safety measures would be equivalent to wearing a mask and performing social distancing. He boasts that he knows more about islamists than anybody, and that the intelliengece community is corrupt. He disregards intel that islamists are placing bounties on US soldiers. He retweets a video where an islamist shouts "allahu ackbar". He says there are fine people among the islamists.

You-know-who would not just protest outside the White House like the triggered libruls are doing, they'd storm it and string up Obama from a lamp post.
__________________
"He's like a drunk being given a sobriety test by the police after being pulled over. Just as a drunk can't walk a straight line, Trump can't think in a straight line. He's all over the place."--Stacyhs
"If you are still hung up on that whole words-have-meaning thing, then 2020 is going to be a long year for you." --Ladewig
Safe-Keeper is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2020, 11:13 AM   #491
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Alexandria, VA Home to the Deep State.
Posts: 21,412
Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
He maybe thinks he can sweep all this under the rug? He's so self-centered that if he's not personally affected, he thinks no one is?
I think the answer is in Mary Trump's book. Trump engages in toxic positivity. If you don't acknowledge the bad news there isn't bad news. Testing forces you to notice the bad news.
__________________
A MAGA hat = a Swastika arm band. A vote for Trump is a vote for treason.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2020, 11:22 AM   #492
newyorkguy
Penultimate Amazing
 
newyorkguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 11,200
As one expects, the White House and trump have refused to respond to inquiries from the media about their reported efforts to block funds for testing. But CNBC (and some others) have reported:
Quote:
Some White House officials reportedly believe new money shouldn’t be allocated for testing because previous funds remain unspent. CNBC link
However
Quote:
The Trump administration also wants to block billions of dollars that would go toward bolstering the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the Pentagon and the State Department to combat the pandemic, The Washington Post reported Saturday, citing people familiar with the deliberations.
Forbes business magazine reported that testing is not as wonderful as trump continually says it is.
Quote:
A lack of testing has beset the U.S. since the beginning of the virus outbreak. Now, the main problem appears to be a backlog at labs across the country. This week, the Washington Post reported that some testing sites are taking five to seven days to deliver results to patients...Former White House Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney penned an op-ed in CNBC this week in which he argued the U.S. still has a “testing problem.” “Any stimulus should be directed at the root cause of our recession: dealing with Covid,” Mulvaney writes. “I know it isn’t popular to talk about in some Republican circles, but we still have a testing problem in this country.” Forbes link
Yet trump doggedly sticks to the 'party line,' as he recently told Fox News' Chris Wallace:
Quote:
“No country has ever done what we’ve done in terms of testing. We are the envy of the world,” Trump said. CNBC link
newyorkguy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2020, 11:56 AM   #493
newyorkguy
Penultimate Amazing
 
newyorkguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 11,200
The real danger from this is just around the corner. Health officials have been warning for months, we need to flatten the curve over the summer and get people out of the hospitals before the Fall flu season rolls in. Instead, as July winds down the U.S. is daily reaching new highs in cases and hospitalizations have been rising since mid-June. This is setting the stage for a disaster come September, one that trump seems oblivious to.

That's what has always scared me about trump being president. I watched in real time as trump insisted the United States Football League abandon its successful Spring schedule and move to the Fall, to go head-to-head with the NFL. Most observers told trump he was making a huge mistake only trump ignored them. Of course, it turned out they were right, trump was wrong. When the league played in the Fall and the numbers tanked, the league collapsed. What did trump do then? Did he stay and try and figure out a strategy to keep the league going? Of course not. trump just walked away.

That doesn't exactly inspire too much confidence in donald trump. Now I'm seeing him setting up the United States for a major health catastrophe. I know if it happens, trump will probably lose the Fall election and, come next January 20th, he'll walk away. Like he did with the USFL. Let the next guy figure out what to do.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg US Hospitalized 07072020.jpg (57.9 KB, 15 views)
newyorkguy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2020, 12:05 PM   #494
Safe-Keeper
Penultimate Amazing
 
Safe-Keeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Norway
Posts: 10,005
And of course, the next guy will be blamed for every problem he's inherited from Trump, the same way Trump is praised for inheriting a low unemployment rate from Obama.
__________________
"He's like a drunk being given a sobriety test by the police after being pulled over. Just as a drunk can't walk a straight line, Trump can't think in a straight line. He's all over the place."--Stacyhs
"If you are still hung up on that whole words-have-meaning thing, then 2020 is going to be a long year for you." --Ladewig
Safe-Keeper is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2020, 12:12 PM   #495
Meadmaker
Penultimate Amazing
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 23,042
I would like to think that this rise in cases, hospitalizations, and deaths have doomed Donald Trump. Until that happened, it could be a dispute between those who say we shouldn't open up, and those that say we should.

I think even his supporters are being forced to acknowledge that no matter what they think the best course of action would have been, Trump has flopped around on it, said things that are obviously untrue, and been grossly incompetent. The best case for him is not that people will think he did a great job on the pandemic, but that people will think it's not his fault and there are more important issues. (i.e. I don't care if everyone dies, as long as they don't raise my taxes.)

As long as that holds, I don't think he can be reelected. However, the election is still a long way off in a very volatile world. A lot can happen. If there is an effective vaccine by then, will people either give him credit or decide that his bungling doesn't matter anymore?

I just find myself thinking, "Please, Joe. Don't say anything stupid!"
Meadmaker is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2020, 12:15 PM   #496
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
If I didn't know better I'd think Trump and the GOP are deliberately trying to kill as many Americans as they can.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2020, 12:21 PM   #497
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 15,992
Trump does not live in reality. Plain and simple.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2020, 12:25 PM   #498
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 22,779
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
If there is an effective vaccine by then, will people either give him credit or decide that his bungling doesn't matter anymore?

"


There is not going to be an effective vaccine by November. That is a fantasy be repeated by the president. Even Fauci is
just being optimistic at this point.
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2020, 12:35 PM   #499
Meadmaker
Penultimate Amazing
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 23,042
Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
There is not going to be an effective vaccine by November. That is a fantasy be repeated by the president. Even Fauci is
just being optimistic at this point.
There certainly won't be one going into the public's arms by then.

I suppose the worst case scenario, politically, would be that there is a vaccine that shows some promise, and people give Trump the credit for that.

It was weird trying to decide whether to call that the best case or the worst case. In reality, I really, really hope that there is a vaccine at that stage by election time. That would be the best case. I just hope people don't give Trump credit for it. That would be the worst case.

I look at the things that he has done right in this scenario, and what I see are things that any president would have done. He really did take steps to ensure ventilator capacity. He really did take steps to increase hospital capacity by setting up temporary facilities in New York, Detroit, and elsewhere. He overdid both of those things, and that is good. He really did shove money toward vaccines. He really did shove money toward testing capacity. Those are all good things. In my mind, those are all obvious things. I don't think they should override the mixed messages, falsehoods, bad advice, and lack of clear messages on masking, or failure to ramp up production of N95 masks that would be more effective.

So, I think, people are going to see through his incompetence, and won't give him credit for doing something that anyone ought to have known should be done. We'll know in November.
Meadmaker is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2020, 12:49 PM   #500
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 83,567
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I think the answer is in Mary Trump's book. Trump engages in toxic positivity. If you don't acknowledge the bad news there isn't bad news. Testing forces you to notice the bad news.
It also goes along with his big lie, there aren't more cases just more testing.
__________________
ORANGE MAN BAD? Why yes, yes he is.

Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2020, 12:58 PM   #501
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 83,567
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I would like to think that this rise in cases, hospitalizations, and deaths have doomed Donald Trump. Until that happened, it could be a dispute between those who say we shouldn't open up, and those that say we should.

I think even his supporters are being forced to acknowledge that no matter what they think the best course of action would have been, Trump has flopped around on it, said things that are obviously untrue, and been grossly incompetent. The best case for him is not that people will think he did a great job on the pandemic, but that people will think it's not his fault and there are more important issues. (i.e. I don't care if everyone dies, as long as they don't raise my taxes.)

As long as that holds, I don't think he can be reelected. However, the election is still a long way off in a very volatile world. A lot can happen. If there is an effective vaccine by then, will people either give him credit or decide that his bungling doesn't matter anymore?

I just find myself thinking, "Please, Joe. Don't say anything stupid!"
It's going to be a while before Trumpers figure this out.

NME this weekend: Wisconsin’s ‘Herd Immunity’ festival** is scientific proof that there’s no cure for idiot
Quote:
It’s almost impressive that with everything 2020 has thrown at us so far, it still seems to have limitless reserves of curveballs – curveballs which comprise a squashed together amalgam of idiocy and human excrement – to lob at us from various directions, all of them hitting us squarely in the face. This is, I think, a fitting description of the so-called ‘Herd Immunity’ festival, held in Ringle, Wisconsin this weekend....

One particular country that seems to have leant into the kamikaze philosophy, is outgoing world superpower the United States. Not only has their richest state (California) just been forced back into lockdown, but their President – an overfilled colostomy bag wearing a red tie – has only just started to wear a face mask, though according to the man himself (and I use the term ‘man’ loosely), he’s always worn a face mask… in fact, he invented them.

**They had to change the name after it caused one of the bands to drop out.
__________________
ORANGE MAN BAD? Why yes, yes he is.

Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2020, 01:04 PM   #502
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 83,567
Normally phase 3 clinical trials take a couple years.

Not sure when the US is going to call phase 3 sufficient. China's probably going to call it by the end of the year. They are giving it to the military, people in Canada and Bangladesh.

The Daily Star: China’s Covid-19 Vaccine: Third phase trial in Bangladesh
__________________
ORANGE MAN BAD? Why yes, yes he is.

Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2020, 01:11 PM   #503
Aridas
Crazy Little Green Dragon
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: East Coast, US
Posts: 6,835
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I read that headline yesterday and it seemed so unbelievable to me, even when one considers Trump. What possible justification could there be for this?
Keeping the official numbers down. It's been the same story since the beginning, exemplified with the Princess. Trump's pushed the party and its propaganda in the direction of "if you don't test, the numbers will stay low; if the numbers stay low, the numbers won't hurt my popularity."
__________________
So sayeth the crazy little dragon.
Aridas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2020, 01:30 PM   #504
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port Townsend, Washington
Posts: 29,339
Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Yet trump doggedly sticks to the 'party line,' as he recently told Fox News' Chris Wallace:
I beg to differ. Trump has never followed the party line. It's the party following the Trump line.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2020, 01:31 PM   #505
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 15,992
Quote:
an overfilled colostomy bag wearing a red tie
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2020, 02:07 PM   #506
newyorkguy
Penultimate Amazing
 
newyorkguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 11,200
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
So ridiculous, these people don't even know what the words mean. Below is a quote from Southeast Health Group dot org, published almost two years ago:
Quote:
Herd Immunity: It’s not just for cattle!

Ranchers have known for decades that when you vaccinate one animal, you make the whole herd healthier. When 95% of the herd has been vaccinated, you reach a state of “herd immunity” where illness is unlikely to occur at all, even in animals with weaker immune systems. Practicing immunization saves the lives of the animals, reduces the veterinarian bills, and makes for a more profitable bottom line. Southeast Health link
newyorkguy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2020, 08:43 PM   #507
Meadmaker
Penultimate Amazing
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 23,042
From Trump's interview with Fox News today:

“I called Michigan. I want to have a big rally in Michigan. Do you know we’re not allowed to have a rally in Michigan?” Trump said in the interview.


Thank you, Gretchen Whitmer. I don't know if she is the best choice as a vice presidential candidate. I'll let the political pros figure out who will best help Joe Biden get elected, but if she ended up as Vice President, I think I would be very happy.

And I hardly doubt that I have to tell anyone here this, but there's nothing special about Trump rallies here in Michigan. It's that there are restrictions on large gatherings. The truth is that he could be allowed to hold a rally in Michigan. I just read a story about a large upcoming concert in Michigan. All he would have to do is seat people far apart, and require masks from everyone in attendance. I guess that doesn't suit his purposes.

And....that assumes that things don't get worse. The governor has said that she will reimpose certain restrictions that have been lifted if the numbers continue to get worse. She already closed down indoor service at bars when it became obvious that a couple of bars were the locus of hundreds of new cases.
Meadmaker is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2020, 09:24 PM   #508
Aridas
Crazy Little Green Dragon
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: East Coast, US
Posts: 6,835
In case anyone needed further confirmation...

NYTimes investigation finds Trump administration was desperate to shift blame for a crisis it caused

Also, Birx was apparently feeding Trump a more pleasant spin throughout?
__________________
So sayeth the crazy little dragon.
Aridas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2020, 09:40 PM   #509
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 13,094
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
If I didn't know better I'd think Trump and the GOP are deliberately trying to kill as many Americans as they can.
The deeper the fall, the more impressive the comeback.

If your ability to comeback isn't that great, you have to make the fall deeper so it still looks impressive.
__________________
Prediction
https://xkcd.com/2370/
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2020, 11:08 PM   #510
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 15,992
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
The deeper the fall, the more impressive the comeback.

If your ability to comeback isn't that great, you have to make the fall deeper so it still looks impressive.
Which is exactly what Mary Trump said in her book about Donald. He lied about Mary having a really bad drug habit to Melania in order to make her 'comeback' seem more impressive. Truth was, Mary never took drugs at all but he lied about if right in front of her.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2020, 11:38 PM   #511
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 83,567
Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
In case anyone needed further confirmation...

NYTimes investigation finds Trump administration was desperate to shift blame for a crisis it caused

Also, Birx was apparently feeding Trump a more pleasant spin throughout?
From the link:
Quote:
deliberate exercise in self-delusion
Pretty much confirms what we know.

This reminds me of Bush sending unqualified people to Iraq to establish the new government:
Quote:
The Times’ report includes several facts not previously disclosed. First, nearly the entirety of the administration’s policy was formulated by aides with no public health or scientific background whatsoever.
But it gets a gazillion times worse:
Quote:
Second, Trump’s perverse “campaign” against testing was intentional and in fact directly related to shifting wholesale responsibility to individual states so that he, Trump, would not be blamed for the catastrophe. Third, the silencing of Fauci through limiting his media appearances was deliberate as they were afraid he would “go off message” and start telling Americans the truth about skyrocketing infection rates; and fourth, California’s governor was told by administration officials that if he wanted bulk deliveries of nasal swabs to test for Covid-19 infections, he would have to call Trump personally and thank him before they would be delivered.

The article also confirms that it was Jared Kushner, as well as administration officials acting on his cues, who was largely influential at the federal level in depriving states of the number of tests necessary to adequately combat the virus.
This is horrible.
__________________
ORANGE MAN BAD? Why yes, yes he is.

Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2020, 11:41 PM   #512
carlosy
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 305
Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
He maybe thinks he can sweep all this under the rug? He's so self-centered that if he's not personally affected, he thinks no one is?
Really? That's a surprise!
carlosy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th July 2020, 03:07 AM   #513
newyorkguy
Penultimate Amazing
 
newyorkguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 11,200
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Very bad idea. Hard to understand why people can be so selfish and callous. Not a good time to be holding a mass gathering in Wisconsin.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg WI 07192020.jpg (46.3 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg WI concert 07172020.jpg (115.8 KB, 15 views)
newyorkguy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th July 2020, 05:18 AM   #514
Myriad
Hyperthetical
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Betwixt
Posts: 16,901
Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
They've changed the threshold for how light blue, blue etc. are picked. First map, light blue is 1-620. Second map, light blue is 1-949. The red starts at 2961 in the first map, 3769 in the second. IOW the red "hot zone" is not comparable to the red in the first map. One of these maps on its own would show you the rankings among counties, but comparing the maps is highly misleading.

Counties that were red in the first map can fall out of red in the second map, even if they have increased transmission. If the parameters were kept the same there would be more red counties in the second map.

I think it's automatic software making decisions using some black box algorithm that's sensitive to minor details. And I think a lot of states are using that same software (or software that uses the same algorithm) for their "dashboards" and county heat maps.

Massachusetts includes a county by county map of cumulative case rate per capita (total cases all time, not current or recent cases) in every daily dashboard. My county has consistently had the third highest rate for months, with clear separation from the better and worse counties. The second highest county and the highest county also all have clear separation from one another. The fourth through seventh highest counties have remained clustered together tightly.

The thresholds on each new map are different, in order to keep the overall number bins (and range of colors on the map) the same. At times, on the daily map, the thresholds for the different colors on the map have been set to group my county (#3) with the 2nd highest county, with the highest county as its own color. Sometimes the highest and 2nd highest have been binned together, with my county all alone with its own color. Sometimes #1 through #3 have all been grouped together. Currently, #1 and #2 are each in their own bin, and #3 has been grouped with numbers 4-7. Since the numbers are now changing very slowly, this current grouping has stayed the same for a few weeks now.

The point is, there's no agenda to conceal the number of cases in MA or to make some particular county look better or worse than another. That's why I think it's software trying to "optimize" the information in some obscure way.
__________________
A zømbie once bit my sister...
Myriad is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th July 2020, 07:33 AM   #515
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 22,779
Thanks Myriad. Statistics can be hard to understand, and in my experience journalists are pretty bad at it, let alone "random guy on twitter."
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th July 2020, 07:52 AM   #516
varwoche
Penultimate Amazing
 
varwoche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 15,121
It's possible the banding thresholds are automatically generated. Whatever.

However the color scheme is a flat out joke, it's so hugely misleading. That's about all that the unwashed masses take in. If that color scheme wasn't intentional, I'll eat my pocket protector.
__________________
To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
My authority is total - Trump
varwoche is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th July 2020, 07:57 AM   #517
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 22,779
Full disclosure - I'm not going to do this; I have more important things to do.

If I were to show you that the color scheme and parameters were the default settings for that piece of graphics software, would it change your mind?
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th July 2020, 08:13 AM   #518
varwoche
Penultimate Amazing
 
varwoche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 15,121
Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Full disclosure - I'm not going to do this; I have more important things to do.

If I were to show you that the color scheme and parameters were the default settings for that piece of graphics software, would it change your mind?
It's hard to believe, but yes. What software is it?
__________________
To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
My authority is total - Trump
varwoche is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th July 2020, 08:21 AM   #519
Beelzebuddy
Philosopher
 
Beelzebuddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,862
The default almost certainly would have been some variation on jet.

The first set of bands is definitely arbitrary, to highlight county variations. They don't make any sense otherwise. I assume the color scheme would also have been chosen for the purpose. Feel free to read into whatever that means. But the second one's bands are just a rough 50% increase across the board. If they were really trying to hide the new data, I imagine they couldn't have helped themselves but twiddle with it even more. This is the state that once put dates out of order to make the curve seem smoother.
Beelzebuddy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th July 2020, 08:45 AM   #520
Horatius
NWO Kitty Wrangler
 
Horatius's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 28,354
Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
In case anyone needed further confirmation...

NYTimes investigation finds Trump administration was desperate to shift blame for a crisis it caused

Also, Birx was apparently feeding Trump a more pleasant spin throughout?

Quote:
Over a critical period beginning in mid-April, President Trump and his team convinced themselves that the outbreak was fading, that they had given state governments all the resources they needed to contain its remaining “embers” and that it was time to ease up on the lockdown.

I started reading Bolton's book about Trump last week, and it confirmed something I've said before, which the above quote re-confirms.

The biggest problem with the modern Republican party is that the people in charge have started to believe their own propaganda.

I expect stupid propaganda to be used to sway low-information, biased and/or stupid voters. It's depressing that this is the way the world works, but there's not much I can do about that. But when the people in charge start believing this nonsense as well, we are well and truly ******.
__________________
Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd
Horatius is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:51 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.