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Tags 2020 elections , donald trump , Mary Trump , presidential candidates , Trump controversies

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Old 24th August 2020, 06:09 PM   #401
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
I had heard that name mentioned before, at about the time the book came out. I'm not sure it was in the book, but it was being tossed around.
This is from the book:

Quote:
Unfortunately, even though Maryanne had been doing his
homework for him, she couldn’t take his tests, and Donald worried that his
grade point average, which put him far from the top of his class, would
scuttle his efforts to get accepted. To hedge his bets he enlisted Joe
Shapiro, a smart kid with a reputation for being a good test taker, to take
his SATs for him. That was much easier to pull off in the days before photo
IDs and computerized records. Donald, who never lacked for funds, paid
his buddy well. Not leaving anything to chance, he also asked Freddy to
speak with James Nolan, a friend from St. Paul’s, who happened to work in
Penn’s admissions office. Maybe Nolan would be willing to put in a good
word for Freddy’s little brother.
Remember there are 15 hours of tapes. I suspect there is more info there than we are aware of so far.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 24th August 2020 at 06:10 PM.
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Old 24th August 2020, 07:00 PM   #402
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The distinction between journalism and non-fiction not-journalism is important, but ultimately misleading. If Mary Trump reports something in her memoir that is defamatory and false, she could be held liable just as any journalist who did the same. Being a journalist does not provide any kind of special protection. It’s a professional title that usually indicates someone graduated from a journalism program and was taught journalistic style, professionalism and ethics.

So no, Mary Trump is not a journalist, but that doesn’t help her much if she reports something defamatory and false.
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Old 24th August 2020, 07:15 PM   #403
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
The distinction between journalism and non-fiction not-journalism is important, but ultimately misleading. If Mary Trump reports something in her memoir that is defamatory and false, she could be held liable just as any journalist who did the same. Being a journalist does not provide any kind of special protection. It’s a professional title that usually indicates someone graduated from a journalism program and was taught journalistic style, professionalism and ethics.

So no, Mary Trump is not a journalist, but that doesn’t help her much if she reports something defamatory and false.
I don't think she's in trouble from Trump - it may be actually impossible to defame him - but there might be a few irate Joe Schapiros out there. Trump probably thinks it makes him look smart.
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Old 24th August 2020, 07:23 PM   #404
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Trump would have to prove he didn't cheat on his SAT and he probably can't prove that. The personal accounts of things in the family, seems like those would be pretty hard to contest.

I don't think she has much to worry about.
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Old 24th August 2020, 07:46 PM   #405
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
I don't think she's in trouble from Trump - it may be actually impossible to defame him - but there might be a few irate Joe Schapiros out there. Trump probably thinks it makes him look smart.

To win a libel or defamation case against a public figure, you have to prove 1/ that the claim was in fact false; 2/ that the speaker/writer knew or should have known it was false; 3/ that the speaker/writer acted with malice to injure the plaintiff's reputation; and 4/ that the plaintiff actually suffered quantifiable injury to his/her reputation.
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclope...ple-29718.html

Could anybody or anything really damage Trump's reputation? Most people already know what he is, and his cultists wouldn't believe it.
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Old 24th August 2020, 08:31 PM   #406
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
To win a libel or defamation case against a public figure, you have to prove 1/ that the claim was in fact false; 2/ that the speaker/writer knew or should have known it was false; 3/ that the speaker/writer acted with malice to injure the plaintiff's reputation; and 4/ that the plaintiff actually suffered quantifiable injury to his/her reputation.
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclope...ple-29718.html

Could anybody or anything really damage Trump's reputation? Most people already know what he is, and his cultists wouldn't believe it.
That's the thing - how can you defame someone who has so thoroughly dragged his own name through the mud? Did he cheat to get into Penn? I don't know, but it would have been perfectly in character given so much of what is already known about him. Even he probably couldn't say what the truth is at this point. A judge could always rule that his reputation has been trashed, but since it wasn't worth a nickel to begin with, the damages would be limited.
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Old 25th August 2020, 01:20 AM   #407
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Mod WarningSeveral off topic posts moved to AAH.

The topic of the thread is Mary Trump's book. It is not Trump himself (there are plenty of threads to discuss that), though of course anything about him connected to the book is fine. It is also not about the definition of words; please do not get bogged down in Clintonesque “It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is." discussions.

Thank you.
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Old 25th August 2020, 06:03 AM   #408
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Claiming (implying?) that Trump cheated is in a way less problematic than tossing out the name "Joe Schapiro."

There are numerous red flags about the statement ... who corrected the "one year" at Fordham to "two years"? "SATS or whatever" emphasizes that he's not sure of the exact entrance exam. The fact that this is what Barry allegedly told Mary as reported in the Post - too many layers. But mostly ... that was more than 50 years ago. I've had my memory proven faulty too many times to try to reproduce a conversation from decades ago. I'll be sure a certain book ends with a well-remembered line ... only to reread the book and realize I'd remembered wrong. As Barry himself seems to hint ... "That's what I believe."

Even so, journalistically you could probably claim to cover your bases just by asking Trump if it's true and recording his response or non-response. But the "Joe Schapiro" part? There really are guys named Joe Schapiro, and you've just accused one of them of serious fraud. And what if it was really "John Schapira," or some other plausible deviation?

Those things stuck in memory that you are sure are true ... are often inaccurate. Even if it's true in broad outline, you can undermine your own credibility by getting some detail wrong.
It is a bit of a bummer how quickly you were able to move from "numerous" red flags to saying you could get away with it by turning it into she-said-he-denied. But I guess that is the system.
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Old 25th August 2020, 08:03 AM   #409
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Trump would have to prove he didn't cheat on his SAT and he probably can't prove that. The personal accounts of things in the family, seems like those would be pretty hard to contest.

I don't think she has much to worry about.
I agree. Actually suing for defamation would be futile. It would be hard to argue that, 50 years later, this claim about the SAT in her book is actually defamatory in the first place and false to boot. Plus, he's a public figure, so he has to show Mary Trump had actual malice. Like you said, reporting old stories from the family in a memoir is not likely to be demonstrably false and it's probably not an element of actual malice on Mary Trump's part.

But the larger point remains: writers of memoirs are no different from journalists when it comes to liability.
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Old 25th August 2020, 04:45 PM   #410
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
It is a bit of a bummer how quickly you were able to move from "numerous" red flags to saying you could get away with it by turning it into she-said-he-denied. But I guess that is the system.
The way I was raised you always give the subject a chance to respond, which I think I would have done anyway because the "he said, she said" drives me kind of nuts.
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Old 25th August 2020, 08:05 PM   #411
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That post didn't come out right. You give the subject a chance to respond - even if you're covering a prosector's opening statement in a murder trial, you also give the defense a chance to comment. So even though "he said, she said" drives me nuts, there is a principle I'm defending. You can't always get to the bottom of things, and IMO the press should try to do that more often. It can't always be done. The SAT anecdote was of marginal value, and trying to chase it down to firm up details was probably not feasible. I think I would have argued for leaving that anecdote out.

ETA: And the denial can be an interesting part of the story. Some subjects will actually confirm it, which is a nice bonus. The Trump White House just started ignoring many press queries.

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Old 25th August 2020, 08:25 PM   #412
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
...

But the larger point remains: writers of memoirs are no different from journalists when it comes to liability.
This is not true, different standards apply. But to discuss the difference is off-topic. You can look it up.
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Old 29th August 2020, 06:10 AM   #413
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More audio recordings have been released with conversations between Mary Trump and her aunt.

In the latest, Ivanka was called "mini-trump" and Eric trump a moron.

I like the strategy here... Release the recordings in small pieces over time... Keeps it in the media and hopefully takes attention away from any positive Trump news.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trum...cording-2020-8

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Old 29th August 2020, 11:16 AM   #414
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Maryanne certainly seems to dislike Donald and his children. And it's completely understandable. They're all just disgusting and despicable.
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Old 30th August 2020, 08:33 PM   #415
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Seems Donald isn't the only one who Mary Trump has to worry about.

https://twitter.com/MaryanneTBarry

It's not a verified account, but she is followed by John H Sununu

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Old 30th August 2020, 11:30 PM   #417
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LOL! What a pile. Faked voice? Give me a break. It's legal in NY to tape someone as long as one person, in this case Mary, gives consent. A federal judge would know that. That alone gives it away as a fake account.
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Old 31st August 2020, 12:54 AM   #418
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Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma View Post
Seems Donald isn't the only one who Mary Trump has to worry about.

https://twitter.com/MaryanneTBarry

It's not a verified account, but she is followed by John H Sununu
Joined in August 2020. Only posts seem to be pro-trump or anti-mary. Makes idle threat about suing.

I would say the account is as fake as a $3 bill.

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Old 31st August 2020, 12:55 AM   #419
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Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma View Post
So...did Mary Trump use/alter her voice without her consent (for which she's apparently being sued), or did she hire a voice actor to pretend to be Barry?

Incidentally, isn't it funny how she tweets exactly like her brother? Same grammar, same random capitalisation, same habit of interrupting herself mid-sentence in brackets, same turns of phrase ("Fake tapes!", "she will be sued BIG LEAGUE", "should've", "big house", "Too bad!", etc.), same Obama-bashing, same bashing of black women...all in, so far, 12 tweets. Strange. You can't explain that, because it's obviously genuinely Maryanne Trump Barry tweeting. Who else could it possibly be? It's got her name at the top after all, and how much more evidence could possibly be required before believing it wholeheartedly?

"Always believe everything you read on the internet" - Abraham Lincoln, 1721, Kosovo.
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Old 31st August 2020, 01:04 AM   #420
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Not to pile on, if it would have been something like @realMaryanneTrumpBarry then it would be totally legit.
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Old 31st August 2020, 01:52 AM   #421
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Looks more like a parody account, but with Poe's law, how could we know for sure ...
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Old 31st August 2020, 04:45 AM   #422
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I honestly don't think it's a parody. It's not quite OTT enough. Look at the April Ryan tweet. Where's the parody? That's just a straight-up Trump tweet about, completely coincidentally, someone that Trump has had beef with.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to discover that the person behind the account was John Barron, David Dennison, John Miller, or maybe even Carolin Gallego.
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Old 31st August 2020, 09:18 AM   #423
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Whoever it is, s/he is none too bright.
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Old 31st August 2020, 12:42 PM   #424
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Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma View Post
Seems Donald isn't the only one who Mary Trump has to worry about.

https://twitter.com/MaryanneTBarry

It's not a verified account, but she is followed by John H Sununu
Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma View Post
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Joined in August 2020. Only posts seem to be pro-trump or anti-mary. Makes idle threat about suing.

I would say the account is as fake as a $3 bill.
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
LOL! What a pile. Faked voice? Give me a break. It's legal in NY to tape someone as long as one person, in this case Mary, gives consent. A federal judge would know that. That alone gives it away as a fake account.
Looks like the account was fake - its been taken down. Twitter got onto that one pretty quick!
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Old 31st August 2020, 12:58 PM   #425
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Looks like the account was fake - its been taken down. Twitter got onto that one pretty quick!

Fun's over. Frowny face
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Old 31st August 2020, 01:39 PM   #426
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Fun's over. Frowny face
However, the salutary lesson remains (especially for our resident Trump fans like TahiniBinShawarma)... Relying on social media posts as evidence will more likely get you burned than not.

Twatter and other social media are not sources. Be very wary of using them as evidence of anything; ALWAYS fact check what you see and read on social media. TahiniBinShawarma spotted something to support his hero, and excitedly posted links to this account's tweets without even scratching the surface. Stacyhs, Squeegee Beckenheim and Segnosaur spotted the obvious clues it was fake almost immediately.
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Old 31st August 2020, 02:13 PM   #427
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I am quite sure TahiniBinShawarma won't learn anything from that.
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Old 31st August 2020, 02:56 PM   #428
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Originally Posted by Mader Levap View Post
I am quite sure TahiniBinShawarma won't learn anything from that.
As Carl Sagan once said "It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out."
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Old 31st August 2020, 04:03 PM   #429
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
However, the salutary lesson remains (especially for our resident Trump fans like TahiniBinShawarma)... Relying on social media posts as evidence will more likely get you burned than not.

Twatter and other social media are not sources. Be very wary of using them as evidence of anything; ALWAYS fact check what you see and read on social media. TahiniBinShawarma spotted something to support his hero, and excitedly posted links to this account's tweets without even scratching the surface. Stacyhs, Squeegee Beckenheim and Segnosaur spotted the obvious clues it was fake almost immediately.
I specifically said

"It's not a verified account, but she is followed by John H Sununu"

Because I had no idea if it was real or not.
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Old 31st August 2020, 04:04 PM   #430
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Originally Posted by Mader Levap View Post
I am quite sure TahiniBinShawarma won't learn anything from that.

I'm quite sure I originally said

"It's not a verified account, but she is followed by John H Sununu"

Because I had no idea whether it was real.
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Old 31st August 2020, 04:05 PM   #431
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I also think it's quite funny that Sununu was following it. He's a pretty old guy, and I'm sure the account wasn't up long.
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Old 31st August 2020, 04:09 PM   #432
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Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma View Post
I also think it's quite funny that Sununu was following it. He's a pretty old guy, and I'm sure the account wasn't up long.
The content itself made it rather obvious it was not written by a federal judge.
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Old 31st August 2020, 04:47 PM   #433
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Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma View Post
I specifically said

"It's not a verified account, but she is followed by John H Sununu"

Because I had no idea if it was real or not.

Then you should not have posted links to those tweets. Fact check first.
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Old 1st September 2020, 10:05 AM   #434
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I'm curious - if you had no idea whether the account was real or not, then who were you referring to when you said "Seems Donald isn't the only one who Mary Trump has to worry about." and linked to the fake twitter account? Also, did you not actually read the links before posting them? Because it was quite obviously fake. Laughably so, in fact.
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Old 1st September 2020, 10:16 AM   #435
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Old 1st September 2020, 11:00 AM   #436
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Then you should not have posted links to those tweets. Fact check first.
I don't know, it was a pitch perfect DJT.
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Old 4th September 2020, 12:54 PM   #437
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Joined in August 2020. Only posts seem to be pro-trump or anti-mary. Makes idle threat about suing.

I would say the account is as fake as a $3 bill.

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Good call.
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Old 4th September 2020, 02:01 PM   #438
theprestige
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Then you should not have posted links to those tweets. Fact check first.
Hahah oh wow.

You're taking this waaay too seriously.
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Old 4th September 2020, 02:35 PM   #439
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Hahah oh wow.

You're taking this waaay too seriously.
Glad you find "latching onto the first thing you find that supports your belief and then posting it without checking if it's true" an amusing concept.

... oh! I forgot who I was replying to......... never mind!
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Old 4th September 2020, 02:48 PM   #440
theprestige
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Glad you find "latching onto the first thing you find that supports your belief and then posting it without checking if it's true" an amusing concept.

<personalization snipped>
I find your vehement dedication to the principle, in the context of this thread, hilarious.

"You posted a twitter thread without rigorously fact-checking it first? That's just not done! How dare you! We have standards!"

Relax. It's an ISF thread about Mary Trump's book, not a Supreme Court ruling.
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