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Tags donald trump , fascism charges , Trump controversies

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Old 8th September 2020, 07:54 AM   #481
thaiboxerken
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Is anyone disputing that Trump would break the law if it allowed him to stay in power?
He already has. The Senate Republicans refuse to hold him accountable for it though.
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Old 8th September 2020, 07:55 AM   #482
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Prestige is confusing the goal with the actions.
Conflating, not confusing. Confusing implies it's not intentional.
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Old 8th September 2020, 09:37 AM   #483
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oopsie

Quote:
by The Great Zaganza View Post
so what is Trump ACTUALLY doing about it?

Who of the deep-state cabal has he arrested?


looks to me that Trump is losing the fight despite his "secret weapon".

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
of course I knew; if you go through the thread, I have mentioned the lawyer already.
And he is LITERALLY accused of the same thing that the DOJ said was okay for Flynn to do, namely lying about something that did not effect the outcome of the investigation.

Saying that you are clutching at straws would be an exaggeration - maybe at an eyelash.
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Old 8th September 2020, 09:54 AM   #484
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
oopsie
you did an oopise?
Happens to the best of us.
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Old 8th September 2020, 10:34 AM   #485
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
oopsie
And?
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Old 8th September 2020, 11:55 AM   #486
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
An interesting thought experiment. If you've ever thought what the "good Germans" should have been doing during the early years of the Nazi ascension, that's probably what "good Americans" should be doing now.

If going underground or fleeing the country don't sound like something you want to do in the next 5-10 years, vigorous organized resistance right now is what is needed. That might mean a few unruly protests or, God forbid, even a bit of property damage. Historically speaking, centrist libs are not up to the challenge.
So far the protests I've been a part of have been peaceful except for a few Trumpists trying to antagonize us. But that's been changing. Just last night a friend who is frequently part of these protests was arrested without charges and we all know she was being targeted.

I support electoral politics as long as it is still viable, but I'm preparing myself for the time when it isn't anymore. When Trump and the right have destroyed any pretense of democracy we have left. Liberals have to wake up or be trampled over.
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Old 9th September 2020, 06:30 AM   #487
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Originally Posted by Boudicca90 View Post
So far the protests I've been a part of have been peaceful except for a few Trumpists trying to antagonize us. But that's been changing. Just last night a friend who is frequently part of these protests was arrested without charges and we all know she was being targeted.

I support electoral politics as long as it is still viable, but I'm preparing myself for the time when it isn't anymore. When Trump and the right have destroyed any pretense of democracy we have left. Liberals have to wake up or be trampled over.
Most will do what libs historically do. They'll just accept the new normal. So long as the fascists promise order, the libs will overlook the injustice.

Some will follow their conscience and find themselves standing up with leftists, but most will just mutter about the need for order, even if that order is delivered by jackboots.
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Old 9th September 2020, 06:43 AM   #488
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Most will do what libs historically do. They'll just accept the new normal. So long as the fascists promise order, the libs will overlook the injustice.

Some will follow their conscience and find themselves standing up with leftists, but most will just mutter about the need for order, even if that order is delivered by jackboots.
The muttering will certainly be there.
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Old 9th September 2020, 07:06 AM   #489
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Most will do what libs historically do. They'll just accept the new normal. So long as the fascists promise order, the libs will overlook the injustice.

Some will follow their conscience and find themselves standing up with leftists, but most will just mutter about the need for order, even if that order is delivered by jackboots.
That is the historical liberal play. I guess we'll just have to hope this time is different.
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Old 9th September 2020, 07:12 AM   #490
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
That is the historical liberal play. I guess we'll just have to hope this time is different.
Or... just do something different, but what will that be?
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Old 9th September 2020, 12:34 PM   #491
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
An interesting thought experiment. If you've ever thought what the "good Germans" should have been doing during the early years of the Nazi ascension, that's probably what "good Americans" should be doing now.

If going underground or fleeing the country don't sound like something you want to do in the next 5-10 years, vigorous organized resistance right now is what is needed. That might mean a few unruly protests or, God forbid, even a bit of property damage. Historically speaking, centrist libs are not up to the challenge.
There is fortunately an election between us and having to actually being anywhere near 1930's Nazi Germany territory.

But yes, it's probably worth coming up with contingency plans for what to do if Trump does indeed win. As a matter of fact I'm sure a lot of people around the US (and outside the US) are doing exactly that.
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Old 9th September 2020, 01:51 PM   #492
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
There is fortunately an election between us and having to actually being anywhere near 1930's Nazi Germany territory.

But yes, it's probably worth coming up with contingency plans for what to do if Trump does indeed win. As a matter of fact I'm sure a lot of people around the US (and outside the US) are doing exactly that.
I'm sure pretty much nobody is making any contingency plans along those lines. What's yours?
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Old 10th September 2020, 04:49 AM   #493
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
An interesting thought experiment. If you've ever thought what the "good Germans" should have been doing during the early years of the Nazi ascension, that's probably what "good Americans" should be doing now.

If going underground or fleeing the country don't sound like something you want to do in the next 5-10 years, vigorous organized resistance right now is what is needed. That might mean a few unruly protests or, God forbid, even a bit of property damage. Historically speaking, centrist libs are not up to the challenge.
I alternate between mercilessly pounding the ever-living daylights out of fascist Americans and providing background information and patient explanations on WaPo, the NYT, Breitbart, and YouTube. Nowadays, mostly just pounding, given the impeachment non-trial and what it truly meant: intellectual and moral abdication by roughly half the nation. An epic trouser drop, for all to see.

If I were sailing today on a Mayflower, why, I'd have every right to take all the land from the savages, commit genocide, and impose my own worldviews, leastwise if I merely were to follow the standards and proclamations of those before me. Luckily, I'm a landlubber.

Americans need to hear what it is they look like from the outside, even if it takes near-nuclear force pounding on each eardrum just to get to "You mean, Spider-man's friend should not have said 'Europeans love Americans'? OMG! Pass the popcorn." It's a slooooooooow process.

After all, these fine folks toss babies in cages and then have a Coke. Abu Ghraib-ites, coast to coast. Their leader gaslights them and lets them die by the hundreds of thousands, and like frogs in heating water.... they fail to move. At some point, they will have to choose between removing the WWII memorial on the Mall and ploughing under Arlington Cemetery, or allowing the Republican Party to continue as it is, outside the federal penitentiary it belongs in.

And just what is it that they look like to the world today? Guess.
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Old 10th September 2020, 04:54 AM   #494
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5.56 ammo used to be available for around 20-25 cents per round during the normal supply. Right now the same ammo is flying off the shelves at 70-80 cents per round, if you can even find it. Same with all the other common calibers. Guns too are in shorter supply.

Fascist street gangs are beating people in the streets with the implicit permission of the police. Any day now it will escalate to live fire and mass victims, and even then I doubt the cops will police right wing violence.

Lol, things are ok though, Biden is going to save us.

We are well and truly ******.
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Old 10th September 2020, 05:50 AM   #495
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm sure pretty much nobody is making any contingency plans along those lines. What's yours?
You really think anyone would tell you?
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Old 10th September 2020, 06:47 AM   #496
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm sure pretty much nobody is making any contingency plans along those lines. What's yours?
The Socialist Rifle Association has seen an explosion of growth since the start of these BLM protests, though it is admittedly a fairly small organization still. There is growing organization of leftist groups of varying levels of militancy, and we are seeing a growing interest in ownership of body armor, respirators, firearms, individual first aid kits, street medic training, mutual aid, etc among these groups. More and more people are radicalized every day as the police riots and covid depression run their course with no assistance or care from our elected leadership.

The hour is growing late for learning to shoot, and people should definitely get some training before grabbing a gun. High ammo prices aren't helping with this effort.


As far as planning, Robert Evan's podcast series "It could happen here" is an excellent primer on what a coming sectarian struggle might look like.

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-...here-30717896/
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Old 10th September 2020, 06:58 AM   #497
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NowThis
Quote:
The United States' two-decade 'war on terror' has displaced at least 37 million people, according to a new study released by Brown University's Costs of War Project. That level of displacement exceeds all conflicts in the 20th & 21st centuries with the exception of World War II.

The report's authors have also stressed that the 37M estimate is a low number, as the project only accounts for the number of people displaced in major epicenters of the war on terror, such as Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Syria, and Yemen, among other nations. The report did not focus on countries with a smaller but still very real U.S. counterterrorist footprint, such as many West & Central African nations like Mali and Niger.

Friday marks the 19th anniversary of the September 11, 2001, attacks. October 7, 2020, will mark the 19th anniversary of the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan.
Time for Nuremberg 2.0, with no-shows tried in absentia.
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Old 10th September 2020, 07:15 PM   #498
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
The Socialist Rifle Association has seen an explosion of growth since the start of these BLM protests, though it is admittedly a fairly small organization still. There is growing organization of leftist groups of varying levels of militancy, and we are seeing a growing interest in ownership of body armor, respirators, firearms, individual first aid kits, street medic training, mutual aid, etc among these groups. More and more people are radicalized every day as the police riots and covid depression run their course with no assistance or care from our elected leadership.

The hour is growing late for learning to shoot, and people should definitely get some training before grabbing a gun. High ammo prices aren't helping with this effort.


As far as planning, Robert Evan's podcast series "It could happen here" is an excellent primer on what a coming sectarian struggle might look like.

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-...here-30717896/
I have been predicting the possible necesity of armed resistence for some time, but I am not looking forward to it like you are.
In fact some of the groups you tout sound like like left wing authoriatrains, not much better then the Tumpests. Both are willing to throw individual rights down the river in pursuit od ideology.
And your contempt for anybody who is not as far to the left as you is noted.
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Old 10th September 2020, 07:40 PM   #499
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Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes View Post
NowThis


Time for Nuremberg 2.0, with no-shows tried in absentia.
OLOL. The Nuremberg trials were the result of several years' struggle, by the combined might of the entire industrialized world, against a small and isolated enemy, at great cost in blood and treasure. For some of the allies in this cause, it was an existential fight.

What's your plan for the new Nuremberg? Russia and China winning a world war, and passing judgement on the losers? What side of that line do you imagine your own country will end up on?

Bad international law fanfic is the best you can do?
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Old 11th September 2020, 07:23 AM   #500
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I have been predicting the possible necesity of armed resistence for some time, but I am not looking forward to it like you are.
In fact some of the groups you tout sound like like left wing authoriatrains, not much better then the Tumpests. Both are willing to throw individual rights down the river in pursuit od ideology.
And your contempt for anybody who is not as far to the left as you is noted.
I take no joy in the prospect of open sectarian warfare. It remains clear that the fascist right is much better armed and willing to commit political violence than the left, and lots of people I respect and admire would be in great danger.

I have contempt for those that prioritize order over justice, the "both-sides" libs that won't lift a finger to oppose fascists.
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Old 11th September 2020, 07:30 AM   #501
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
I guess now would be a good time to remind everyone that the step after "Trump is doing the thing he said he was gonna do but it technically doesn't count because of semantics" is "Trump is doing the thing he said he was gonna do, what are you gonna do about it?"
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
OLOL. The Nuremberg trials were the result of several years' struggle, by the combined might of the entire industrialized world, against a small and isolated enemy, at great cost in blood and treasure. For some of the allies in this cause, it was an existential fight.

What's your plan for the new Nuremberg? Russia and China winning a world war, and passing judgement on the losers? What side of that line do you imagine your own country will end up on?

Bad international law fanfic is the best you can do?
And there it is.
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Old 11th September 2020, 11:25 AM   #502
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I take no joy in the prospect of open sectarian warfare. It remains clear that the fascist right is much better armed and willing to commit political violence than the left, and lots of people I respect and admire would be in great danger.

I have contempt for those that prioritize order over justice, the "both-sides" libs that won't lift a finger to oppose fascists.
Maybe not everyone feels it has come to that yet. You probably don't know who "wouldn't lift a finger" in the current climate, but we can see who would.
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Old 11th September 2020, 11:27 AM   #503
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
And there it is.
Actually we're past that point, by the time of my post that you quoted.

Anyway, the Trump Administration still isn't fascism, but you're allowed to call it fascism if you want.
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Old 11th September 2020, 12:08 PM   #504
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Actually we're past that point, by the time of my post that you quoted.

Anyway, the Trump Administration still isn't fascism, but you're allowed to call it fascism if you want.
Ideologically, it's already there. That is, had you expended any effort to read on the topic. A fascist regime has not yet been put in place, true (careful, -><- would be premature, sorry), in spite of Barr's many efforts to eliminate the rule of law entirely. Important clue: "rule of law" does not mean "law and order".

There's plenty more where these thumb-twirling stumblebums leading the executive branch came from, so give it time.

You should be aware, at least some, that when you selectively ignore the unmarked vehicles and street grabs of suspected political opponents by scarcely lawful means, along with that Mussolini-worthy parade from the WH to a church, plus so much more, all of it coming on top of children in cages, you confess to utter know-nothingism. In that regard, best stay out of the conversation, as you are hopelessly uninformed and ill-equipped to engage meaningfully.

GOP, take note: It takes something cut-and-run hexapods lack to man up, own up, and face up (ask the Kurds). So far, Republicans/Libertarians/QAnon/KKK ain't cutting it. Flaccid.
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Old 11th September 2020, 12:12 PM   #505
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The entire ideology of the GOP is to win elections.
That means that it won't change until it suffers a dramatic defeat.
Otherwise it will continue its aspirational fascism strategy.
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Old 12th September 2020, 01:21 AM   #506
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Know-nothings like to pretend that each man is a castle, that civilized living is one that protects property above and to the exclusion of all else. What a load of self-serving horse dung.

It is precisely the rise of the division of labor and specialization that allowed for permanent settlements, a critically essential surplus of food, and... wait for it, libertarians... your much vaunted, previously impossible private property. Civilization itself is an eloquent testimony to and proof of what a species can accomplish... working together.

Quote:
Neolithic Revolution. These developments, sometimes called the Neolithic package, provided the basis for centralized administrations and political structures, hierarchical ideologies, depersonalized systems of knowledge (e.g. writing), densely populated settlements, specialization and division of labour, more trade, the development of non-portable art and architecture, and greater property ownership. The earliest known civilization developed in Sumer in southern Mesopotamia (c.  6,500 BP); its emergence also heralded the beginning of the Bronze Age.[6]
Private property was "born" along with the innovations in social living that are all owed to... wait for it, libertarians... social interdependence. Not dependence, not independence, not preening white men in towers ******** on others, but interdependence.

From the Neolithic forward, no man, no one, can claim that the tiny, minuscule pebble he manages to place atop the pyramid of cumulative human endeavor is a monumental achievement alone and of itself, free standing. A lie. Willful and pathetic ignorance. A betrayal of all those around him, before him, and after him; rank ignorance in the service of greed.

So much for knuckle-dragging, blind and willfully antisocial libertarianism.
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Old 12th September 2020, 01:35 AM   #507
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Indeed.

To think that there can be such a thing as private property is the result of the unbelievable luxury of not living in a society under constant threat of deprivation.
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Old 12th September 2020, 07:57 AM   #508
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
oopsie
Talk to your doctor about treatment options.
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Old 12th September 2020, 08:12 AM   #509
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
The Socialist Rifle Association has seen an explosion of growth since the start of these BLM protests, though it is admittedly a fairly small organization still. There is growing organization of leftist groups of varying levels of militancy, and we are seeing a growing interest in ownership of body armor, respirators, firearms, individual first aid kits, street medic training, mutual aid, etc among these groups. More and more people are radicalized every day as the police riots and covid depression run their course with no assistance or care from our elected leadership.

The hour is growing late for learning to shoot, and people should definitely get some training before grabbing a gun. High ammo prices aren't helping with this effort.


As far as planning, Robert Evan's podcast series "It could happen here" is an excellent primer on what a coming sectarian struggle might look like.

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-...here-30717896/
OOOoooookay let's all take a deep breath here. I expect there's going to be clashes after the election, particularly if Biden wins. Just hunker down and let it pass. It won't matter. If you're trying to stop or alter a change of government by force, the only fighting that matters is in the capitol. To take over the levers of government, you have to have access to those leavers. Everything else is a side show that will burn itself out. The executive will transition.

Washington DC isn't Kenosha. Armed militias here get shot. We've got plenty of Police and the National Guard will already be called up for the transition (it always is).

Don't underestimate the power of bureaucratic inertia. Once the transition starts it will be a juggernaut.

And for what I'm sure won't be the last time, if I'm your voice of reason, there's a ******* problem here.
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Old 14th September 2020, 06:20 AM   #510
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
OOOoooookay let's all take a deep breath here. I expect there's going to be clashes after the election, particularly if Biden wins. Just hunker down and let it pass. It won't matter. If you're trying to stop or alter a change of government by force, the only fighting that matters is in the capitol. To take over the levers of government, you have to have access to those leavers. Everything else is a side show that will burn itself out. The executive will transition.

Washington DC isn't Kenosha. Armed militias here get shot. We've got plenty of Police and the National Guard will already be called up for the transition (it always is).

Don't underestimate the power of bureaucratic inertia. Once the transition starts it will be a juggernaut.

And for what I'm sure won't be the last time, if I'm your voice of reason, there's a ******* problem here.
I suspect the most acute danger will come from armed, self-appointed MAGA warriors, not the cops or national guard. They'll just stand by while the right wing wages sectarian violence against their unarmed liberal opponents.

I never suggested that revolutionary socialists were going to wage war with the government in November. My point is that it would be nice if trans people were able to stop themselves from getting curb stomped by roving Proud Boys during a period of heightened political unrest. Teaching them to be competent with firearms is a way to achieve that, and the SRA has a mission of firearms education, especially among marginalized, oppressed communities.

I am anticipating a great deal of political violence and hate crimes from the right around election time, regardless of the electoral outcome. The police have already shown how they deal with right wing political violence, which is not at all. MAGA hat warriors will get free reign from the cops to wage stochastic terror against the populace.
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Old 14th September 2020, 11:52 AM   #511
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Getting back to the thread title:

Quote:
RS “I put out, ‘When are you going to go get him?’ And the U.S. Marshals went in to get him,” the president told Fox News host Jeanine Pirro, referring to Michael Forest Reinoehl. “This guy was a violent criminal, and the U.S. Marshals killed him. And I’ll tell you something—that’s the way it has to be. There has to be retribution.”
The President is a fascist. That he'd like the country to be a totalitarian state is no secret.
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Old 14th September 2020, 12:05 PM   #512
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Trump is an Enemy of the State.
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Old 14th September 2020, 12:11 PM   #513
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Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes View Post
Getting back to the thread title:



The President is a fascist. That he'd like the country to be a totalitarian state is no secret.
You would think that the Marshals would object to their mission to capture fugitives being characterized this way, unless of course they think "retribution" is their mission.
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Old 14th September 2020, 12:20 PM   #514
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So basically the Republicans are treating that little voice in your head telling part of say loud and which part to say quiet that I thought we all had like the Empire treated Jedi between Revenge of the Sith and a New Hope, something to be hunted down and killed.

Forget the subtext is becoming the text, there is no more subtext it's all text.
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Old 14th September 2020, 01:40 PM   #515
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
You would think that the Marshals would object to their mission to capture fugitives being characterized this way, unless of course they think "retribution" is their mission.
Retribution for what? Taking out one of their white supremacists?

They aren't hiding their associations anymore.
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Old 15th September 2020, 06:48 AM   #516
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‘Like an Experimental Concentration Camp’: Whistleblower Complaint Alleges Mass Hysterectomies at ICE Detention Center

Quote:
Several legal advocacy groups on Monday filed a whistleblower complaint on behalf of a nurse at an Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) detention center documenting “jarring medical neglect” within the facility, including a refusal to test detainees for the novel coronavirus and an exorbitant rate of hysterectomies being performed on immigrant women.
https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile...ention-center/

Just a concentration camp on the border mass sterilizing prisoners. Nothing to see here folks.
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Old 15th September 2020, 06:51 AM   #517
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Oh so that's where all the toothbrush and basic sanitation money went. They blew it on hysterectomies. Yeah perfectly normal behavior for a non-fascist functioning democracy.
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Old 15th September 2020, 06:59 AM   #518
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It will be telling whether the Trump Administration is going to investigate this or cover it up.
If they do the latter, then yeah, they are clearly Fascists.
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Old 15th September 2020, 07:00 AM   #519
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
It will be telling whether the Trump Administration is going to investigate this or cover it up.
If they do the latter, then yeah, they are clearly Fascists.
They'll do neither. They'll claim it with pride via some "Well technically..." excuse.
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Old 15th September 2020, 07:12 AM   #520
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At best, they'll deny it with a wink and elbow dig to the base.

IMO, this is the logical outcome of normalizing atrocious behavior, first highly visible with Abu Ghraib/Guantanamo/extraditions to torture hellholes and the open advocacy for torture of the Bush II administration. It felt too good to give it to the boys who did 9/11, or any passable -- and helpless -- substitute. Just had to take 'em out behind the shed til they bled.

Uncle Sam has not had his moral trousers up since, nor does he know where true North lies.

ETA: And far too many people serving in the military, normalizing in civilian life through spillover what pertains only to military matters.
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