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Tags Coronavirus , Coronavirus conspiracies , donald trump , Trump controversies

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Old 14th September 2020, 06:56 AM   #401
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
To the mods: Post quoted above, name calling and a rule violation is it not?
Originally Posted by rockysmith76
Idiots..........
Something about logs on one's own eye...
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Old 14th September 2020, 07:00 AM   #402
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Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
Something about logs on one's own eye...
Context: Idiots was posted with specific reference to any given individual. The one I pointed out clearly uses my name in specific insulting reference so yeah, there is a difference.
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Old 14th September 2020, 07:02 AM   #403
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Originally Posted by RedStapler View Post
And most people in here agreed that it was indeed not murder. But he is still responsible for downplaying it, something you don't seem to understand.




The mods advised you multiple times to use the report button, instead of indulding in your silly victim complex. Is there anything that the "PC culture" did not ruin for you,lol?




He cause 100k+ deaths due to negligence. Do you find that acceptable or why are you (again) trying to downplay his involvement and responsibility in this event?



So that means "We knew little" justifies the use of language like "it will go away soon on its own"? Wow, you really like your god emperor, don't you?
He knew what was going to happen and you know it, too.



More victim complex. Maybe get a hobby?
Maybe practice what you preach instead of demanding everyone bathe in your pointless outrage. I argued the fallacy of the OP's statement, you and others seemingly want to derail the thread into yet another OMB fest. The OP had specific reference to Covid/Murder.
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Old 14th September 2020, 07:04 AM   #404
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Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
Rocky doesn't want to have a reasonable discussion about facts. He's proved that already by running away from threads when challenged to do so. He just wants to didactically lecture everyone on the inferiority of their positions. Only Rocky is allowed to criticize Trump, and then only in the context of "both sides suck". Any mention by anyone else of the deafening sucking sound emanating from the Oval Office will be met with his stock "clever" mockery involving the deployment of his patented signature phrase, "orange man bad", as though people have been histrionically losing their **** over Trump fist-bumping his wife, or wearing a tan suit.
Stick to the facts is all I've done in this thread. His Covid response however bad simply isn't "Literally Murder". The others want to change the subject and sink into more of the same, and yes it is OMB and thats all it is...
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Old 14th September 2020, 07:07 AM   #405
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
You really need to get past the fact that as bad as he is, he didn't cause Covid, we knew very little about it in the early stages of the pandemic and there would have been deaths regardless, the negligence and idiocy of his response exaggerated it yes, but you are completely disingenuous in trying to vilify me for pointing that out.
"You really need to get past the fact that as bad as the theater manager is, he didn't cause the fire, we knew very little about it in the early stages of the fire and there would have been deaths regardless. The negligence and idiocy of his response exaggerated it, yes. But you are completely disingenuous in trying to vilify me for pointing that out."

No one is claiming that none would have died had someone else been president. But many more people have certainly died because of his gross incompetence and sociopathic disregard for the lives of others. His response was basically to tell people in a crowded theater that the smoke they smelled (which he later admitted on audio recordings he knew at the time to be an actual fire in the basement) was just a couple of kids smoking in the bathroom, and to remain in their seats and enjoy the show.
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Old 14th September 2020, 07:13 AM   #406
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
Context: Idiots was posted with specific reference to any given individual. The one I pointed out clearly uses my name in specific insulting reference so yeah, there is a difference.
Oh, well in that case, anyone in general expressing the opinions you have expressed is a ******* moron. And anyone in general who posts threads about how there will be consequences for not taking him seriously is a pathetic, self-victimizing cry-baby. And anyone who runs away when challenged to actually provide a cogent argument is an intellectual coward.

But none of that is directed toward you, personally.
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Old 14th September 2020, 07:24 AM   #407
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
Stick to the facts is all I've done in this thread. His Covid response however bad simply isn't "Literally Murder".
And others have expressed the same opinion and invited you to move further into the discussion. All you had to do was state that you didn't think his actions legally amounted to murder. Then you could have moved on to a discussion of what they did amount to, which is still god damned horrible.


Quote:
The others want to change the subject and sink into more of the same, and yes it is OMB and thats all it is...
Orange man is a ******* piece **** of **** who doesn't care about minimizing the number of deaths.

Others wanted to move on to further the discussion. But you only want to focus on this one item of semantic pedantry. You aren't good at actual arguments, so you steer everything back to what you're intellectually qualified for: muttering "Idiots" at people in general.
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Old 14th September 2020, 07:26 AM   #408
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
Stick to the facts is all I've done in this thread. His Covid response however bad simply isn't "Literally Murder". The others want to change the subject and sink into more of the same, and yes it is OMB and thats all it is...
Yes, I agreed to that multiple times.
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Old 14th September 2020, 07:42 AM   #409
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People get the game being played here, right?

The question isn't whether or not what Trump did is technically this or According to Hoyle did that or meets the dictionary definition of such and such.

The question is "Did Trump finally do something bad enough that we need to deal with it?" and that answer from the Trumpers will always be "no."

"President Trump's mishandling of the Pandemic makes him unfit for office."
"LOL Triggered lib. It's not like he committed murder."
"Fine, he murdered them."
"LOL overdramatic hyperbolic lib. It's not technically murder."

It's been their game for a while. Everything Trump does either falls on one side of "LOL it's no big deal, we'll worry when it's a big deal" or "LOL you're being overdramatic by calling it a big deal."

You don't listen when we tell you things in neutral, vanilla terms and when we use dramatic language hoping it will penetrate your thick skulls you turn into people who only want to talk about how dramatic we are being, all while pretending you'd be happy to listen to use if we weren't so dramatic ignoring the fact that you didn't listen to us back when we weren't so dramatic.

This thread, the "Can we call Trump's regime fascist" thread, multiple others are all the same thing. We're not actually trying to debate the Trumpers on English 101 usage of specific words because they don't matter. We're pointing out that no matter how we word you still aren't going to listen.
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Old 14th September 2020, 07:49 AM   #410
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As usual, an apt summary of the situation.
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Old 14th September 2020, 07:55 AM   #411
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
People get the game being played here, right?
I refuse to believe they don't, so I can only assume they really like spending their time here spoon-feeding trolls for some reason. I get it when it's some stubborn CTer or creationist, and interacting with them educates the people reading the thread, but just splitting hairs over the term "murder" for page after page, or responding to really reaching whataboutisms? What good does it do other than enable the troll's behaviour?

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
You don't listen when we tell you things in neutral, vanilla terms and when we use dramatic language hoping it will penetrate your thick skulls you turn into people who only want to talk about how dramatic we are being, all while pretending you'd be happy to listen to use if we weren't so dramatic ignoring the fact that you didn't listen to us back when we weren't so dramatic.

This thread, the "Can we call Trump's regime fascist" thread, multiple others are all the same thing. We're not actually trying to debate the Trumpers on English 101 usage of specific words because they don't matter. We're pointing out that no matter how we word you still aren't going to listen.
A point that was made in 2016, when Trump first ran and it became clear his followers weren't interested in facts or honest, rational debate.
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Old 14th September 2020, 07:58 AM   #412
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Because you can't just "ignore the trolls" when they are a major voting demographic.
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Old 14th September 2020, 08:03 AM   #413
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I'm not sure if I understand. Nothing we do here matters one bit. Maybe one or two fence-sitters will discover these threads, decide from the very limited sample size that trumpkins can't be reasoned with, and proceed to vote Biden. I doubt it, though.

Even if you want to make a point somewhere, it's enough to just point out someone is using a whataboutism and then ignore them. I do so often in newspaper and YouTube comments threads (and yes, of course I know this also makes next to no difference). Continuing to interact with them for page after page makes no sense to me, though.

If everyone put them on ignore and just went on with actual rational discussion, they'd have the choice between adapting and growing up, or leaving the forums. When people keep engaging with them, they have no reason to change, and instead of having constructive discussion, we have pointless splitting of hairs and other useless threads for page after page.

Though for fairness' sake, I suppose this thread is such an open-and-shut case of Trump being horrible that there isn't much to discuss anyway, so perhaps it's a bad example.
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Old 14th September 2020, 08:06 AM   #414
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
I'm not sure if I understand. Nothing we do here matters one bit. Maybe one or two fence-sitters will discover these threads, decide from the very limited sample size that trumpkins can't be reasoned with, and proceed to vote Biden. I doubt it, though.
Yeah it doesn't matter here.

The problem is we let them use the internet for years as a place to hone their "nothing matters" way of thinking, and then they started using it in the real world.

Yes nothing we do matters here. The problem is nothing we do out there in the real world is going to matter anymore because we trained them.
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Old 14th September 2020, 08:32 AM   #415
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So we change the OP's resolution to: Trump was derelict in his duty to protect American lives and is therefore morally responsible for the deaths of many Americans. OK, I can agree with that.

I understand the arguments proffered here regarding the distinction between what Trump has done and what other Presidents have done. Fundamentally, however, I don't see much of a distinction there. When a President orders a drone strike on the hiding place of the leader of some terrorist organization and is informed that such a strike is likely to kill innocent civilians, there is moral responsibility for those deaths. What Trump did is similar, he made a policy decision (keep the economy going) which he knew was likely going to result in increased deaths. We can disagree with him (just as we can with the President who ordered the drone strike) about the wisdom of the policy decision but even if we agree, there is still moral responsibility for the resultant deaths.

But I think the really important distinction is actually in regards to Trump himself. He ran on an "America First" platform. His decision to downplay the virus and keep the economy going was a Trump First move, pure and simple. He put his reelection chances above the health and safety of the American people. That's what needs to be hammered home.
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Old 14th September 2020, 08:41 AM   #416
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I understand the arguments proffered here regarding the distinction between what Trump has done and what other Presidents have done. Fundamentally, however, I don't see much of a distinction there. When a President orders a drone strike on the hiding place of the leader of some terrorist organization and is informed that such a strike is likely to kill innocent civilians, there is moral responsibility for those deaths. What Trump did is similar, he made a policy decision (keep the economy going) which he knew was likely going to result in increased deaths. We can disagree with him (just as we can with the President who ordered the drone strike) about the wisdom of the policy decision but even if we agree, there is still moral responsibility for the resultant deaths.

Sure, no debating that. But the major distinction is that previous real Presidents accepted the moral responsibility in their decision making process.

Trump? "I take no responsibility at all". His own words. Right there. And he's said it on more than one occasion.
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Old 14th September 2020, 09:00 AM   #417
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Also the other Presidents had at least vague justifications for what they were trying to do.

Trump tanked the economy in order to save... the economy from the virus after every expert told him that his plan to "Sit there and do nothing" would both tank the economy and make the pandemic worse. He shot the hostage before it was even taken hostage.

We're not arguing the nuance with the benefit of hindsight as to whether or not Trump made a good or bad decision in some overly complicated trolley problem.
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Old 14th September 2020, 09:09 AM   #418
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It's pretty obvious the Dems and the MSM would tell everyone not to wear a mask and hug everyone if Trump tried raise the alarm, so it turns out Trump actually saved lives, lol.
The hysterical cries of racism and delusional hate is a product of propaganda and brainwashing by silicon valley and its excuse is ideology/politics.
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Old 14th September 2020, 09:10 AM   #419
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Originally Posted by RedStapler View Post
Yes, I agreed to that multiple times.
And I agreed that his overall response sucked so.....?
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Old 14th September 2020, 09:36 AM   #420
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Originally Posted by Guss View Post
It's pretty obvious the Dems and the MSM
Stopped reading here.
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Old 14th September 2020, 09:38 AM   #421
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
And I agreed that his overall response sucked so.....?
You also claimed (multiple times) that the reactions in this thread were overly dramatic, out of proportion, screaming into the wind and "it's just another baseless 'Orange Man Bad'"

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Old 14th September 2020, 09:49 AM   #422
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Also the other Presidents had at least vague justifications for what they were trying to do.

Trump tanked the economy in order to save... the economy from the virus after every expert told him that his plan to "Sit there and do nothing" would both tank the economy and make the pandemic worse. He shot the hostage before it was even taken hostage.

We're not arguing the nuance with the benefit of hindsight as to whether or not Trump made a good or bad decision in some overly complicated trolley problem.
The Trolley Problem is an excellent tool to examine what Trump did compared to other presidents, because at least with other presidents, you are able to apply it.

There was no Trolley Problem for Trump. No moral dilemma. No weighing of a greater good against collateral damage.

He just packed the trolley full of people and drove it straight off of a cliff for no discernible reason.
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Old 14th September 2020, 10:03 AM   #423
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Originally Posted by RedStapler View Post
You also claimed (multiple times) that the reactions in this thread were overly dramatic, out of proportion, screaming into the wind and "it's just another baseless 'Orange Man Bad'"
There have been several attempts to derail the focus on Covid and the claim of literal murder and throw in all the other stuff to, when it wasn't the OP. Then the hysteria of anyone not following the trend being labeled an apologist, because apparently some failed to find anyone to cancel on twitter that day.
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Old 14th September 2020, 10:07 AM   #424
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Regardless you are going to make sure we're always talking about something else rather then what Trump did wrong.
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Old 14th September 2020, 10:09 AM   #425
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Regardless you are going to make sure we're always talking about something else rather then what Trump did wrong.
Regardless you are going to derail what was a legitimate discussion about the OP's claims because at the end of the day, all you can do is scream OMB as loud as you can, and label people as apologists, nazis, or satan because they don't feel like enabling your pathetic derail.
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Old 14th September 2020, 10:10 AM   #426
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
Regardless you are going to derail what was a legitimate discussion about the OP's claims because at the end of the day, all you can do is scream OMB as loud as you can, and label people as apologists, nazis, or satan because they don't feel like enabling your pathetic derail.
I rest my case.
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Old 14th September 2020, 10:17 AM   #427
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Originally Posted by Guss View Post
It's pretty obvious the Dems and the MSM would tell everyone not to wear a mask and hug everyone if Trump tried raise the alarm, so it turns out Trump actually saved lives, lol.
The hysterical cries of racism and delusional hate is a product of propaganda and brainwashing by silicon valley and its excuse is ideology/politics.
Add in "sheeple" for the full reveal.
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Old 14th September 2020, 10:20 AM   #428
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Originally Posted by RedStapler View Post
You also claimed (multiple times) that the reactions in this thread were overly dramatic, out of proportion, screaming into the wind and "it's just another baseless 'Orange Man Bad'"
Literally guilty of murder is indeed overly dramatic and out of proportion. Take that away, and all that's left is the claim that Trump's policies are in part responsible for the way the pandemic is playing out in the US. Which is something everybody here already agrees about and blames him for. If we're dismissing the "literally murder" claim, there's nothing distinctive about this that requires a new thread. I'm sure there's already more than one thread where the same point has been made and acclaimed.

I'm not sure "Orange Man Bad" is baseless, but a lot of it does seem gratuitous and redundant. You all agree that it's not literally murder, but you somehow still don't have enough threads to express your condemnation of his policies. So this one lives on, long after it's original thesis has been rejected.

Though, I suppose it might die faster if rocky stopped bumping it with his inane "rebuttals". So I don't hold you exclusively responsible for this OMB silliness.
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Old 14th September 2020, 10:35 AM   #429
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I rest my case.
You have no case to rest.
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Old 14th September 2020, 10:39 AM   #430
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm not sure "Orange Man Bad" is baseless, but a lot of it does seem gratuitous and redundant. You all agree that it's not literally murder, but you somehow still don't have enough threads to express your condemnation of his policies. So this one lives on, long after it's original thesis has been rejected.
Exactly my point with regard to a derail here, the thread has gotten about as far along as it will, but it's not enough for some to already have multiple generic Trump sucks threads, this one had a specific point, but they have to derail it by just ranting on the same from all the other threads. Honestly all those threads should be consolidated into one and have it be done.
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Old 14th September 2020, 12:37 PM   #431
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I love it when people participate in threads they claim are pointless and redundant.
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Old 14th September 2020, 01:10 PM   #432
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
I love it when people participate in threads they claim are pointless and redundant.
I'm curious whether anyone can make an interesting case that it isn't.
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Old 14th September 2020, 01:49 PM   #433
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm curious whether anyone can make an interesting case that it isn't.
Seconded, why NOT just consolidate them all into one thread and be done with it, this thread is proof that any thread with a unique take is doomed to be devolved into just another Trump sucks thread. You dont need 30 of them.
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Old 14th September 2020, 06:47 PM   #434
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
So we change the OP's resolution to: Trump was derelict in his duty to protect American lives and is therefore morally responsible for the deaths of many Americans. OK, I can agree with that.
While it is arguably true that Trump was derelict in his duty and therefore morally responsible for the deaths, that is not what this thread is about.

The OP argued that Trump's actions amount to 'depraved-heart murder', where an individual acts with a "depraved indifference" to human life and where such act results in a death, despite that individual not explicitly intending to kill. The OP then asserts that this is literally murder. This argument has two potential problems:-

1. Murder is legally defined as unlawful killing. Whether a killing is legal or not depends on culpability. The president cannot be legally culpable of any crime, and therefore cannot commit murder.

This makes the OP's assertion technically wrong according to US law, but this objection can be bypassed if we change our definition of the word 'murder' to mean what would be murder if there was true justice. OK, I can agree with that.

2. The word 'literally' can be used in different senses. It might mean 'directly' (in which case it could be argued that 'depraved-heart' murder doesn't qualify), or it may mean 'factually' as apposed to metaphorically. (It can also be used informally to mean the opposite, ie. metaphorically rather than factually, but that clearly was not the OP's intent).

Since the OP didn't define exactly what they meant by 'literally' I would be OK with allowing 'depraved-heart' murder, since it is literally one of the legal definitions of murder.

So if we ignore the perverse legal fact that a sitting president can literally get away with killing someone in cold blood for no legitimate reason, the only question remaining is do Trump's actions fit the description of 'depraved-heart' murder? If they do then we have to agree with the OP, even though technically it's not murder if the president does it.

Quote:
I understand the arguments proffered here regarding the distinction between what Trump has done and what other Presidents have done. Fundamentally, however, I don't see much of a distinction there. When a President orders a drone strike on the hiding place of the leader of some terrorist organization and is informed that such a strike is likely to kill innocent civilians, there is moral responsibility for those deaths. What Trump did is similar, he made a policy decision (keep the economy going) which he knew was likely going to result in increased deaths. We can disagree with him (just as we can with the President who ordered the drone strike) about the wisdom of the policy decision but even if we agree, there is still moral responsibility for the resultant deaths.
But there has to be a line somewhere, and there is a distinction.

From the legal definition of 'depraved-heart murder':-
Quote:
In a depraved-heart murder, defendants commit an act even though they know their act runs an unusually high risk of causing death or serious bodily harm to a person. If the risk of death or bodily harm is great enough, ignoring it demonstrates a "depraved indifference" to human life and the resulting death is considered to have been committed with malice aforethought.
If the president orders a drone strike even though innocent civilians might die, but every effort is made to lessen the risk, then he is responsible for any deaths but not indifferent to them. But if he orders the strike knowing that innocent civilians most probably will die and does nothing to minimize those deaths then he could indeed be accused of murder, since he is showing a depraved indifference towards them.

In the case of Trump, we not only have indifference towards people dying, but a deliberate strategy of hiding the truth and disseminating misinformation to fool the population into thinking they weren't in any danger, simply to protect the fortunes of a few rich people who supported him. He knew how bad the virus was, and he knew that denying it was a problem which would result in a lot of people dying, but he didn't care. Furthermore he ignored the advice of experts not because he didn't believe them, but because he had made the decision to put money before lives. And then he continued to try hiding the damage and spread misinformation even after it became clear that the worst was actually happening.

But that is not all. Not only did Trump himself act with depraved heart, he replaced competent officials with sycophants who were also depraved, openly supported other covid deniers, and set the federal government against states that were trying to fight the virus - all the while knowing that his actions were increasing the death toll. These actions are not 'similar' to other presidents, they are are in fact quite different. There is definitely a distinction both in scale and scope, and Trump has definitely crossed a line.

Quote:
But I think the really important distinction is actually in regards to Trump himself. He ran on an "America First" platform. His decision to downplay the virus and keep the economy going was a Trump First move, pure and simple. He put his reelection chances above the health and safety of the American people. That's what needs to be hammered home.
""'I never thought leopards would eat MY face,' sobs woman who voted for the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party."

Even the Trump supporters who believed him when he said 'America First' knew he didn't mean all of America. They knew it didn't include gays, liberals, intellectuals, Muslims, atheists or brown people. They knew he was a vicious liar and cheat who abused women, a racist and an incompetent businessman who bankrupted several businesses and got money from Russian mobsters. They knew he was only in it for himself, and they were OK with that.

So now their faces are getting eaten too and they still think Trump is putting their America first. Which he is, because their America isn't for the People - it is just for selfish individuals who only care about what they want. For many of them that means denying facts they don't want to face up to, or sticking it to libs even if it hurts them too!

But these observations are off topic here. The OP thinks 'depraved-heart murder' accurately describes Trump's indifference towards Covid-19 deaths. I agree with that. He has not acted like other presidents who had our interests at heart and did their best to avoid getting people (or at least Americans) killed. Other presidents put the country first and didn't abuse the power vested in them, so they deserved to be shielded from charges of murder. But not Trump. He has not earned that privilege.
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Old 14th September 2020, 07:00 PM   #435
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The Trump supporters see themselves as some sort of mob lawyer, arguing that their client didn't threaten the shop keeper, he just noticed how nice of a shop it was and how much of a shame it would be if anything happened to it.

It's pedantry at best and it only rarely even raises to that level.
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Old 14th September 2020, 07:03 PM   #436
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And if we're being 100 perfect honest for the sake of being honest, no Trump isn't a murderer. He's worse. He's a traitor.

We know that Presidents will have to make decisions that will cost lives. It's part of the social agreement when we elect you to that position. Taking that trust put in you by the people of an entire country and just betraying it is worse then putting two in the Gas N' Gulp clerk because he wouldn't empty the register face enough or poisoning your husbands coffee because he was banging his secretary.
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Old 14th September 2020, 07:21 PM   #437
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Literally guilty of murder is indeed overly dramatic and out of proportion.
Not according to the definition of 'depraved heart ' murder it isn't.

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Take that away, and all that's left is the claim that Trump's policies are in part responsible for the way the pandemic is playing out in the US.
Weasel words. A half-competent president who didn't have a depraved heart would have done a much better job. Trump is directly responsible for the major part of how the pandemic is 'playing out'. He could even have done nothing except let other officials do their jobs, and things would be much better than they are.

Quote:
Which is something everybody here already agrees about and blames him for. If we're dismissing the "literally murder" claim, there's nothing distinctive about this that requires a new thread.
I don't think the "literally murder" claim should dismissed. It may not be technically true, but that doesn't mean there isn't a valid argument that it should be.

Quote:
I'm not sure "Orange Man Bad" is baseless, but a lot of it does seem gratuitous and redundant. You all agree that it's not literally murder, but you somehow still don't have enough threads to express your condemnation of his policies. So this one lives on, long after it's original thesis has been rejected.
But the original thesis is only 'rejected' based on a legal technicality that can't be proved because it will never (with a Trump-friendly DOJ) be tested in court. I think that is worth discussing.

Quote:
Though, I suppose it might die faster if rocky stopped bumping it with his inane "rebuttals".
Yes, OMB is a silly rebuttal. This thread could be discussing any president, even a hypothetical one. But the quickest way for it to die would be for everyone to simply agree or not agree with the OP - which would be sad. Debates are always more interesting when people have different ideas and points of view.
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Old 14th September 2020, 07:50 PM   #438
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
We know that Presidents will have to make decisions that will cost lives. It's part of the social agreement when we elect you to that position.

That's the second time this argument/observation has been presented in this thread.

This probably warrants a separate thread, and I may yet start one when I'm less rushed, but, leaving aside Chump and is extraoordinary brand of craziness, this is a valid question for discussion by itself. Should Presidents get a free pass on their personal culpability as far as the lives their policies cost, just because their job does involve such policies as a matter of course?

I suspect the answer's somewhere in between the totally-they're-responsible verdict your everyman will draw, and the get-out-of-jail-free card we hand over to our heads of state. (Hand to them at least in practice. I'm not clear what the letter of the law has to say on this.)

Chump does deserve some years in jail IMO regardless: but say a W? I'd argue that ******* needs to sitting his assclown face in prison too. (Not to make this partisan, but this goes for that mini-war-games of Clinton too, back when he was caught with his pants down. I forget the details, but there was a small something there at that time that, while tiny compared to W's war games and Chump's pandemic, nevertheless may well have cost unnecessary lives, and so might be deserving of some kind of personal culpability.)

True, heads of state wield great power. But too many of them are ********, and wield it far too callously. Getting their own personal ass in line may teach these asshats greater responsility in how they conduct themselves when in office. (And if it keeps some faint-hearted coward away from the hot seat as a result? So much the better!)
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Old 14th September 2020, 08:30 PM   #439
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Trump critics from before the 2016 elections have said that, should there ever be a crisis, Trump would not be able to handle it.
Trump got until 2020 before he faced any crisis for the nation (not just his Administration), and he failed to handle it.

Do his supporters think that in his next term he will handle the next crisis better?

Seems to me they just don't care.
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Old 14th September 2020, 08:56 PM   #440
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Originally Posted by Guss View Post
It's pretty obvious the Dems and the MSM would tell everyone not to wear a mask and hug everyone if Trump tried raise the alarm, so it turns out Trump actually saved lives, lol.
The hysterical cries of racism and delusional hate is a product of propaganda and brainwashing by silicon valley and its excuse is ideology/politics.
"MSM"
"silicon valley"

I was waiting for "triggered" towards the end of your stupid post.
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