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Tags Coronavirus , Coronavirus conspiracies , donald trump , Trump controversies

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Old 11th September 2020, 01:54 AM   #201
Craig4
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
The lack of blowback Trump is getting from his supporters over this highlights the cult character of MAGA.
Democracy depends on voters doing more than just follow their leader.
I saw on "Amanpour" her interview with Micheal Sandel, the author of the soon to be released book, "The Tyranny of Merit". Trump's supporters don't really like him. They hate us. By us I mean what Sandel describes as the "Credentialed Class". The credentialed class has college degrees, is successful and in our success we've demeaned the concept of work. Our class has allowed ourselves to believe that our merit is the product of our own ability (as opposed to our life circumstances) and that if you aren't part of our class it's your fault.

The reason that the revelations don't hurt Trump's base is that Trump is doing what his base wants, hurting us. Trump is, as a Palestinian grandmother described Yassir Arafat, the rock they throw at the world. Provided he is hurting our class, they don't care. This doesn't excuse the treason of Trump voters but it goes a long way to explaining it.
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Old 11th September 2020, 03:24 AM   #202
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Trump derangement syndrome is a thing.
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Old 11th September 2020, 03:49 AM   #203
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Beau is on the case. His past few videos, on these tapes, haven't really added anything new, to be fair -- he usually has his own insights and reflections to add -- but still worth watching. He sums things up nicely, especially in this last one.

As Beau says, however, we didn't need Woodward to know the virus was dangerous, and that Trump was downplaying it -- both of these things were patently obvious to anyone outside of the post-fact sphere. Which makes blaming him a pretty obvious red herring.
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Old 11th September 2020, 04:39 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
First of all, whataboutism. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Second of all, to get the interviews Woodward had to agree on a timeframe for release. That was Trumps decision, not Woodward.

Nice try though. So now how about acknowledging your boy is a murderer instead of changing the subject?
the OP embellishment being the other wrong if there's any mystery there.
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Old 11th September 2020, 04:40 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Of course not. Who said that?
You didn't say that, you correctly called out the OP's lie about it being murder, nothing more.
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Old 11th September 2020, 04:42 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Unapologetic, weaponized obtuse argumentatives in the face of defending the undefendable.
Bullpoo... it was pointing out the other side lying to embellish their point to their own detriment. What Trump did was undefendable and and horrible, but calling it murder detracts any argument against it by being tainted by lies.
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Old 11th September 2020, 04:43 AM   #207
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Due to Trumps ignorance, several hundred thousand people are dead. Does not matter that it is not murder.
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Old 11th September 2020, 04:45 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Because I think there's a legitimate argument to be made that, under the standards I posted in the first post, he's literally guilty of murder. The "skeptical debate" would be to show that the standard doesn't apply in this case, or that his actions don't rise to that standard*.
*And oddly enough, rocky is the only one who seems to have even tried to address this issue
Weird, you endorse my effort to point out the reality given the OP is patently false, but it's friday so whatever. Still aint murder. Horrible and dereliction yes, murder no.

And everyone in this thread trying to deflect away the non murder reality of the situation is proving why the Michael Moore element of the Left does absolutely nothing to help the cause of the left.
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Old 11th September 2020, 04:47 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
I'd be willing to accept that, if someone could explain why his actions don't meet the standards of depraved indifference. So far, no one has.

But as was said earlier, the whole, "It wasn't technically murder, it was manslaughter" argument is pretty telling in its own right. Whatever you finally decide to call it, he's guilty as sin and should rot in jail.
manslaughter I still doubt, best you'll get here would be negligent homicide, though still bad.
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Old 11th September 2020, 04:49 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Murder ,no.
Manslaughter, yes.
No. Negligent homicide, but closer.
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Old 11th September 2020, 04:52 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by RedStapler View Post
Due to Trumps ignorance, several hundred thousand people are dead. Does not matter that it is not murder.
If you want to make a legal argument about it, YES it does. Hold him accountable for what he's guilty of, start making things up and the case can be dropped defeating the entire purpose of your intended exercise.
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Old 11th September 2020, 04:52 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by RedStapler View Post
Due to Trumps ignorance, several hundred thousand people are dead. Does not matter that it is not murder.
The popular celebration of ignorance and selfishness is a root cause that will remain after Trump is gone. As was pointed out above people don’t merely undervalue expertise, they hate it.
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Old 11th September 2020, 04:56 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I saw on "Amanpour" her interview with Micheal Sandel, the author of the soon to be released book, "The Tyranny of Merit". Trump's supporters don't really like him. They hate us. By us I mean what Sandel describes as the "Credentialed Class". The credentialed class has college degrees, is successful and in our success we've demeaned the concept of work. Our class has allowed ourselves to believe that our merit is the product of our own ability (as opposed to our life circumstances) and that if you aren't part of our class it's your fault.

The reason that the revelations don't hurt Trump's base is that Trump is doing what his base wants, hurting us. Trump is, as a Palestinian grandmother described Yassir Arafat, the rock they throw at the world. Provided he is hurting our class, they don't care. This doesn't excuse the treason of Trump voters but it goes a long way to explaining it.
One one level I understand that.
But it should be obvious that it is mostly Trump supporters who end up getting hurt by his policies. It's like having an incontinent dog to annoy the neighbor by having him **** in his garden - but at the cost of having a house full of dog poo.
Us "credentials" are telling Trump supporters to stop beating themselves and the answer we get is: "I won't because the idea came from you".

There is just no scenario here in which supporting Trump is benefiting any of his "non-credential" supporters.
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Old 11th September 2020, 05:07 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
If you want to make a legal argument about it, YES it does. Hold him accountable for what he's guilty of, start making things up and the case can be dropped defeating the entire purpose of your intended exercise.
Nope, not at all.
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Old 11th September 2020, 05:19 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by RedStapler View Post
Nope, not at all.
Enjoy your denial.... YOUR emotion does not divine the law and how it applies. You and yours are simply wrong.
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Old 11th September 2020, 05:26 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
Enjoy your denial.... YOUR emotion does not divine the law and how it applies. You and yours are simply wrong.
Neither does yours
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Old 11th September 2020, 05:32 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by RedStapler View Post
Neither does yours
I've shown no emotion in this entire thread, I have literally posted the legal definition of murder proving the OP's falsehood, the argument being offered by you and others is blind rage and basically nullifies your point, because it shows your blatant willingness to lie to prove your attempt at a point.

Again, he did a NEGLIGENT horrible non job by not acting but no matter how much you and others try to move heaven and earth to make it murder, it isn't. Dead horse beaten one more time, not it wasn't asking for it.
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Old 11th September 2020, 05:40 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I saw on "Amanpour" her interview with Micheal Sandel, the author of the soon to be released book, "The Tyranny of Merit". Trump's supporters don't really like him. They hate us. By us I mean what Sandel describes as the "Credentialed Class". The credentialed class has college degrees, is successful and in our success we've demeaned the concept of work. Our class has allowed ourselves to believe that our merit is the product of our own ability (as opposed to our life circumstances) and that if you aren't part of our class it's your fault.
This is borne out by my experience. My wife and I are the first members of our respective families to graduate college, with most of our close relatives having never finished high school. I have been on the receiving end of more than one screed about how I had everything handed to me, ignoring that fact that, once the two of us married, my parents cut me off and I had to work out my own way to finish.

I think I need to hunt up that book when it is released. Thanks for the heads up.
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Old 11th September 2020, 06:01 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
...Trump is, as a Palestinian grandmother described Yassir Arafat, the rock they throw at the world...
That's a very good way of describing it. The rock they throw at the world. As I read one of his supporters say, "I know I shouldn't, but I kind of like the way he lies all the time."
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Old 11th September 2020, 06:35 AM   #220
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A few generic retorts.

- "Oh I'm not a Trump supporter! Stop calling me a Trump supporter!" We know. Trump, magically, became President without anyone actually supporting him. We get it, nobody is a Trump supporter but a bunch of people pull the exact same stalling whatabouta routine every time any criticism of him comes up. We totally believe you. *Jerk off motion*

In politics a supporter and an apologist are the same thing.

- But more importantly please stop insulting our intelligence. Nobody is buying this "Oh I honestly truly feel the deep need to obsess over the Left's 'hyperbole' and 'hypocrisy' and me screaming about it makes perfect sense and totally isn't just a way to defend Trump" routine. If the Left's drama and double standards even bug you in the slightest, Trump should send you into full on existential dread. He's the drama-llama-ist double-standardist person in history. You don't care about hyperbole, you don't care about hypocrisy. Nobody is buying it.
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Old 11th September 2020, 06:40 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
A few generic retorts.

- "Oh I'm not a Trump supporter! Stop calling me a Trump supporter!" We know. Trump, magically, became President without anyone actually supporting him. We get it, nobody is a Trump supporter but a bunch of people pull the exact same stalling whatabouta routine every time any criticism of him comes up. We totally believe you. *Jerk off motion*

In politics a supporter and an apologist are the same thing.

- But more importantly please stop insulting our intelligence. Nobody is buying this "Oh I honestly truly feel the deep need to obsess over the Left's 'hyperbole' and 'hypocrisy' and me screaming about it makes perfect sense and totally isn't just a way to defend Trump" routine. If the Left's drama and double standards even bug you in the slightest, Trump should send you full on existential dread. He's the drama-llama-ist double-standardist person in history. You don't care about hyperbole, you don't care about hypocrisy. Nobody is buying it.
Or.... move past blind rage and lies and stick to the facts of the issue at hand, and stop with the very embellishing that makes the Left hard to take seriously when it channels the falsehoods and nonsense of people like Michael Moore. You're hurting your own point.
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Old 11th September 2020, 06:44 AM   #222
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The left. Lol
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Old 11th September 2020, 06:48 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
The left. Lol
So lying to make your point is ok? Good luck with that.
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Old 11th September 2020, 06:58 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
So lying to make your point is ok? Good luck with that.
Your imagination running wild on three words.
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Old 11th September 2020, 07:00 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
I've shown no emotion in this entire thread
Which is of course completely wrong since you accuse me of claiming things I have never claimed

Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
but no matter how much you and others try to move heaven and earth to make it murder, it isn't. Dead horse beaten one more time, not it wasn't asking for it.
I checked my posts in this thread, I never agreed that this was murder. So, how about you try to be less emotional while replying.

Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
, I have literally posted the legal definition of murder proving the OP's falsehood, the argument being offered by you and others is blind rage and basically nullifies your point, because it shows your blatant willingness to lie to prove your attempt at a point.
Nah, just because it is not murder it doesn't mean that your god emperor is responsible for a lot of deaths. (which is the whole point, not quibbling over semantics and trying to downplay the whole issue by repeatedly screaming "BUT IT'S NOT MURDER, SO YOU DON'T HAVE A POINT"
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Old 11th September 2020, 07:06 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by RedStapler View Post
Which is of course completely wrong since you accuse me of claiming things I have never claimed



I checked my posts in this thread, I never agreed that this was murder. So, how about you try to be less emotional while replying.



Nah, just because it is not murder it doesn't mean that your god emperor is responsible for a lot of deaths. (which is the whole point, not quibbling over semantics and trying to downplay the whole issue by repeatedly screaming "BUT IT'S NOT MURDER, SO YOU DON'T HAVE A POINT"
He's not my anything.... I took issue with the OP's claim nothing more, so again, stop embellishing...
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Old 11th September 2020, 07:11 AM   #227
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Trump, Trump supporters, Trump apologists do not get to lecture me on truthfulness, emotional states, or priorities.

"LOL I'm just saying" when you use "just saying" as a distraction. Everytime Trump does something vile the same handful of "Totally not a supporter" Trump supporters immediately hijack it with some overly dramatic (ironically enough) rant about the reaction to it "hyperbole" or "hypocrisy."

Nobody is buying this. It's embarrassing that people keep claiming it.
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Old 11th September 2020, 07:13 AM   #228
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The premise of the OP is a joke.
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Old 11th September 2020, 07:15 AM   #229
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If you claim to be a firefighter yet every single time there's a fire all you want to talk about is how dramatic the people who's house is on fire are being specifically as a way to have something to do other than put out the fire, then you support the fire.
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Old 11th September 2020, 07:17 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Trump, Trump supporters, Trump apologists do not get to lecture me on truthfulness, emotional states, or priorities.

Nobody is buying this. It's embarrassing that people keep claiming it.
Someone seems triggered. When someone wants to lie to advance their point, they can and will get lectured.

Noone cares what noone is buying. The OP is a falsehood, and those clinging to it show their own flaws. Both sides suck and this is the flaw of the left. "Truth doesnt matter as long as we get our way.."

Nope.
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Old 11th September 2020, 07:18 AM   #231
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Running around wearing their underpants on their heads. Being dramatic.

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Old 11th September 2020, 07:23 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
If you claim to be a firefighter yet every single time there's a fire all you want to talk about is how dramatic the people who's house is on fire are being specifically as a way to have something to do other than put out the fire, then you support the fire.
How does describing the homeowner as an "Arsonist" because he forgot to unplug the iron help to put out the fire?
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Old 11th September 2020, 07:23 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
If you claim to be a firefighter yet every single time there's a fire all you want to talk about is how dramatic the people who's house is on fire are being specifically as a way to have something to do other than put out the fire, then you support the fire.
So so triggered. The Goal post doesn't feel like being moved. In defending the lie that pollutes the OP's point, by your sad logic, you make yourself part of the lie.

Listen closely. Trump sucks, and if some want impeachment so badly, they will need to stick to the facts, not the embellished ******** born out of OMB rage that nullifies any point they might have said. So very triggered.
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Old 11th September 2020, 07:25 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
How does describing the homeowner as an "Arsonist" because he forgot to unplug the iron help to put out the fire?
You embellish the facts to obscure the problem the house had in the first place.
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Old 11th September 2020, 07:26 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
How does describing the homeowner as an "Arsonist" because he forgot to unplug the iron help to put out the fire?
Trump didn't "forget" to unplug the iron. He stood there and watched it set the drapes on fire while all the experts screamed "Turn off the damn iron you idiot!" but he was distracted by his daughter's boobs or a squirrel outside the window or whatever.
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Old 11th September 2020, 07:29 AM   #236
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Troll/argue all you want Trumpers. In the middle of a crisis making everyone stop because a specific term got used less then perfectly is sociopathic nonsense. Hiding behind being "technically correct" is just trolling.

You don't argue the "Murder/Manslaughter" distinction while someone is still being stabbed.
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Old 11th September 2020, 07:29 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Trump didn't "forget" to unplug the iron. He stood there and watched it set the drapes on fire while all the experts screamed "Turn off the damn iron you idiot!" but he was distracted by his daughter's boobs or a squirrel outside the window or whatever.
So triggered not even making sense. He was a negligent trogladyte, but it was murder, complicit negligence, but that's where the facts end.
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Old 11th September 2020, 07:30 AM   #238
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Nobody buys the "Oh I'm not saying Trump isn't evil, I just always have a problem with the way you call him evil" routine either trolls.
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Old 11th September 2020, 07:31 AM   #239
rockysmith76
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Troll/argue all you want Trumpers. In the middle of a crisis making everyone stop because a specific term got used less then perfectly is sociopathic nonsense. Hiding behind being "technically correct" is just trolling.

You don't argue the "Murder/Manslaughter" distinction while someone is still being stabbed.
You've lost. If you're gonna scream for impeachment you need the facts not cancel culture blind rage. Stop calling those who see clearly trumpers they're not. You embarrass yourself and your embellishing pals.

And calling one a sociopathic troll..... is a) name calling and b) projection.
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Old 11th September 2020, 07:33 AM   #240
Sideroxylon
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Trump didn't "forget" to unplug the iron. He stood there and watched it set the drapes on fire while all the experts screamed "Turn off the damn iron you idiot!" but he was distracted by his daughter's boobs or a squirrel outside the window or whatever.
Your analogies are a riot.
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