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Tags atheism , China incidents , China issues , christian persecution , gosateizm

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Old 23rd September 2018, 10:52 AM   #801
David Mo
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Itís not actually relevant. Whenever he encounters a question people wonít stop asking and he canít answer he lies and claims it was already addressed. Witness, for example, his claim that he already answered my questions earlier in the thread. I asked him what he thought it was about atheism that lead to the atrocities he attributed to it. I also asked why atheists in a specific country werenít engaging in the same kind of oppression.

Heís a liar whose main goal is attacking atheism. When you try to nail down any philosophical specifics he scuttles like a cockroach in bright light.
I kow, but I need to practice my English. And Big Brother Dog's tactiques are ilustrative.
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Old 23rd September 2018, 11:21 AM   #802
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Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
The article does mention the government is Conservative and Far-Right...
What matches the Chinese and Austrian repressions of religious groups is they are taking political measures against potential or factual dangers to the political system. They differ in the tolerance level. Government's religious philosophies have nothing to do.
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Old 23rd September 2018, 11:26 AM   #803
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Originally Posted by David Mo View Post
Where?
Oh man....

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Old 23rd September 2018, 12:00 PM   #804
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh man....

I beg your pardon. I insist. Where have you speak of the agreement Vatican-China? Common brother!
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Old 23rd September 2018, 12:16 PM   #805
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Originally Posted by David Mo View Post
I beg your pardon. I insist. Where have you speak of the agreement Vatican-China? Common brother!
Do you see the irony of people posting false claims that I have not responded to insipid arguments, while you are unable and unwilling to find a simple post written within the last 27 hours.

I insist that you read the thread and find the post.
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Old 23rd September 2018, 07:34 PM   #806
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Heís a liar whose main goal is attacking atheism.
Not sure why, since I'm not seeing evidence of an actual religious practice, or attempt thereto.
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Old 23rd September 2018, 10:26 PM   #807
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Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
The article does mention the government is Conservative and Far-Right...
Yes that European conservative and far right....
Obama in Euro politics was considered center to mild right...
Remember that difference
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Old 23rd September 2018, 11:31 PM   #808
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Do you see the irony of people posting false claims that I have not responded to insipid arguments, while you are unable and unwilling to find a simple post written within the last 27 hours.

I insist that you read the thread and find the post.

The post you refer to doesn’t remotely answer the question.
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Old 24th September 2018, 02:01 AM   #809
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Obviously no, Lol.

We agree that Marx was a militant atheist which is why virtually all of the greatest monsters of the 20th century were militant Marxist atheists.
Hitler? Saddam Hussein? Idi Amin? General Pinochet? Mugabe? Dick Cheney? ( ) Mussolini? Franco? Enver Pasha (architect of the Armenian genocide)? General Tojo? (WW2 Japanese commander).

You really should read more, old boy. Your knowledge of world events is sadly lacking.
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Old 24th September 2018, 02:05 AM   #810
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Do you see the irony of people posting false claims that I have not responded to insipid arguments, while you are unable and unwilling to find a simple post written within the last 27 hours.

I insist that you read the thread and find the post.
I'm amazed you are unable to indicate what comment are you speking of. Frankly, I don't see it.
Maybe you are avoiding an awkward problem.
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Old 24th September 2018, 05:02 AM   #811
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Originally Posted by Dabop View Post
Yes that European conservative and far right....

Obama in Euro politics was considered center to mild right...

Remember that difference


I suspect on a Christian forum he would attack Christianity. Most specialized forums that provide a venue for targeted trolling eventually ban the person when they get too overt or repetitive. I donít consider his posts proper trolling however. Theyíre more performance art.

Iíve seen him take on woo-woo proponents on this forum. He uses pretty much the same tactics. Itís important to remember that heís not to be taken seriously. His threads can be quite entertaining when heís on the ball. Sadly heís currently in a rather circular rut. His cookie cutter lie that he already answered certain questions is far less entertaining than one of his bat guano silly answers. Iíd rather he ignore the challenges he canít answer than give such a lazy, lackluster response.
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Old 24th September 2018, 06:12 AM   #812
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Hitler? Saddam Hussein? Idi Amin? General Pinochet? Mugabe? Dick Cheney? ( ) Mussolini? Franco? Enver Pasha (architect of the Armenian genocide)? General Tojo? (WW2 Japanese commander).

You really should read more, old boy. Your knowledge of world events is sadly lacking.
while we can quibble about Hitler status as an atheist, even he can't hold a candle to Atheist Monsters like Lenin, Stalin, and Mao.
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Old 24th September 2018, 06:20 AM   #813
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
while we can quibble about Hitler status as an atheist, even he can't hold a candle to Atheist Monsters like Lenin, Stalin, and Mao.
Another typical evasion.
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Old 24th September 2018, 06:36 AM   #814
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I see TBD remains utterly incapable of establishing any relation between supposed atheist beliefs and his extreme claims, forcing the repetition of examples that do relate to belief sets, only not the one criticized.

Aka, sloppy slander.

The implication he provides, never stated so as not to have to defend himself from the ridiculous, is that it is the atheism that undermines ethical behavior and leads to the outcomes he decries, and not the doctrines taken by those cited as undeniable truths. The second motive, and far more telling, is that such recognition of the dangers of absolutism and fixed truths immediately opens Christianity's epic can of historical and contemporary worms. That is an "oops too far," even in this sad case.

Oh, well. I suppose some cartoons are on TV so I can refresh myself by trading up.
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Old 24th September 2018, 07:45 AM   #815
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Yeeh, still going on?

Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Obviously no, Lol.

We agree that Marx was a militant atheist which is why virtually all of the greatest monsters of the 20th century were militant Marxist atheists.
No, we don't. Karl Marx was a political theorist who held that communism was the best system for humanity. He also recognized that a revolution was needed to build a communist society. That doesn't make him militant by any useful definition of the term.

Considering his view on religion, we can safely assume that he was an atheist.

Karl Marx did not himself take any part in any revolution, he only published his ideas.

His position is certainly not causative for the atheism of others, but his ideas may well have appealed to people who were already atheists.

Hans
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Old 24th September 2018, 07:48 AM   #816
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Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes View Post
I see TBD remains utterly incapable of establishing any relation between supposed atheist beliefs and his extreme claims, forcing the repetition of examples that do relate to belief sets, only not the one criticized.
fascinating comment, no? It is odd how our anti-religion correspondents can see examples that DO relate to belief sets, but not to the explicit examples that relate to firm marxist atheism, despite the fact the CCP has specifically stated that.

Lets give our correspondents an hypothetical the illuminate the subject.

Had Chairman Xi required his party members to be Firm Car Drivers and cracked down on all bicycle riders, even those specifically authorized to own bicycles, one would not quibble with the fact that the crack down related to cars, particularly where there was precedent within living memory of pogroms against religious bike riders.

Here we see atheists cracking down on religious, and people claim to be baffled when someone shows that it is related to Firm Marxist Atheism.
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Old 24th September 2018, 08:28 AM   #817
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
fascinating comment, no? It is odd how our anti-religion correspondents can see examples that DO relate to belief sets, but not to the explicit examples that relate to firm marxist atheism, despite the fact the CCP has specifically stated that.

Lets give our correspondents an hypothetical the illuminate the subject.

Had Chairman Xi required his party members to be Firm Car Drivers and cracked down on all bicycle riders, even those specifically authorized to own bicycles, one would not quibble with the fact that the crack down related to cars, particularly where there was precedent within living memory of pogroms against religious bike riders.

Here we see atheists cracking down on religious, and people claim to be baffled when someone shows that it is related to Firm Marxist Atheism.
Yikes! christianity sounds awful the way you put it. I gotta say your turn around in all this has been a welcome surprise.

but you neever did explain why all christians support child strangulation.
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Old 24th September 2018, 10:35 AM   #818
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
fascinating comment, no? It is odd how our anti-religion correspondents can see examples that DO relate to belief sets, but not to the explicit examples that relate to firm marxist atheism, despite the fact the CCP has specifically stated that.
Well, this just might be because most of us here know that "firm marxist atheism" is not a belief set. (Actually, I'm pretty sure you also know that)

Marxism is, of course, a political theory, and atheism is a lack of belief systems.

Quote:
Lets give our correspondents an hypothetical the illuminate the subject.

Had Chairman Xi required his party members to be Firm Car Drivers and cracked down on all bicycle riders, even those specifically authorized to own bicycles, one would not quibble with the fact that the crack down related to cars, particularly where there was precedent within living memory of pogroms against religious bike riders.
We would, however, quibble if someone claimed it was related to veganism, which is exactly as equal to cars as atheism is to religion.

Quote:
Here we see atheists cracking down on religious, and people claim to be baffled when someone shows that it is related to Firm Marxist Atheism.
No. We see a totalitarian state crack down on people with different opinions, which includes, but is certainly not limited to, religious movements. Note the word "movements". Even in China, you can believe in whatever you want, as long as you're not too organized about it.

Hans
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Old 24th September 2018, 10:40 AM   #819
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
We would, however, quibble if someone claimed it was related to veganism, which is exactly as equal to cars as atheism is to religion.
Lets take a look:

veganism is to cars as atheism is to religion.

Y'all see that folks? I mean really give into how outstandingly absurd it is? "theism" is literally in the word.

Lets try again, shall we folks:

Vegans oppose restrictions on eating meat. Only a hard core atheist would look at that and say, yup, that has nothing to do with veganism, yet here we are.

let me fix that for you:

veganism is to eating meat as atheism is to religion.
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Old 24th September 2018, 10:47 AM   #820
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Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes View Post
I see TBD remains utterly incapable of establishing any relation between supposed atheist beliefs and his extreme claims, forcing the repetition of examples that do relate to belief sets, only not the one criticized.

Aka, sloppy slander.

The implication he provides, never stated so as not to have to defend himself from the ridiculous, is that it is the atheism that undermines ethical behavior and leads to the outcomes he decries, and not the doctrines taken by those cited as undeniable truths. The second motive, and far more telling, is that such recognition of the dangers of absolutism and fixed truths immediately opens Christianity's epic can of historical and contemporary worms. That is an "oops too far," even in this sad case.

Oh, well. I suppose some cartoons are on TV so I can refresh myself by trading up.
And if I can just chime in on this great posting ...

Maybe I am getting both old and cynical, but in all of my time on the Forum, I have noticed that there has never even been so much as one theist on the Forum who has ever had the courage of his stated convictions.

For example, I used to wonder why all of the apostles of Jesus refused to speak up for Jesus after he got into trouble with the Romans, even though all of these honorable men were supposedly pledged to serve Jesus. Anyway, after seeing the various theist obfuscations and evasions that are all too typical of theists, I am firmly convinced that theism is simply incapable of actually providing one with any sort of real personal courage even though theists often claim that their belief in their god makes them so very strong.
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Old 24th September 2018, 10:55 AM   #821
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say, lets chime in a post that has literally nothing at all to do with the Firm Marxist Atheists crack down and persecution of religious people.

1 million Muslims in camps, blatant human rights violations? The atheists are the victims here!

Oh man...
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Old 24th September 2018, 11:19 AM   #822
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
say, lets chime in a post that has literally nothing at all to do with the Firm Marxist Atheists crack down and persecution of religious people.

1 million Muslims in camps, blatant human rights violations? The atheists are the victims here!

Oh man...
If your god really is a god, then I am sure that it would take far more than several faux pathetic postings to an internet forum to win the favor of that god.
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Old 24th September 2018, 11:35 AM   #823
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Considering his view on religion, we can safely assume that he was an atheist.

He was an atheist in the sense that he didn't believe in gods, but what he argued was that the miserable living conditions of people made them need religion, "the opium of the people." Thus it would be futile to "call on them (the believers) "to give up their illusions about their condition" because that would be "to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions." I.e. it makes no sense to try to persuade them to give up their faith in God. What's the point?! It would make much more sense to persuade them to fight against the social conditions, which are what made them religious in the first place.
This is what I mean when I say that Marx went beyond atheism and criticism of religion.

Quote:
Karl Marx did not himself take any part in any revolution, he only published his ideas.

It's true that he never fired a gun, built a barricade or threw a paving stone at the police. But he did more than just publish his ideas. He was a part of the First International, and as early as 1845 he said that:

Quote:
The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it.
Theses on Feuerbach (1845)

That he didn't succeed in changing it (much) doesn't mean that he didn't try.

Quote:
His position is certainly not causative for the atheism of others, but his ideas may well have appealed to people who were already atheists.

I think his position actually has been causative for the atheism of major parts of the labour movement, but unfortunately many have misunderstood his account of the relationship between society and religion, the opium of the people, to mean that the bad clergy invent religion as a tool to manipulate the working classes as if most religious workers had no other reason to believe.
The many self-proclaimed Marxists who have tried to put a stop to religion by means of persecution can't really invoke Marx in support of their endeavor.
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Old 24th September 2018, 12:41 PM   #824
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post

let me fix that for you:

veganism is to eating meat as atheism is to religion.
Would be the opposite:

eating meat is to veganism as atheism is to religion ..

However, the point was I tried to make sense of your car comparison. I'm glad you agree it didn't.

Hans
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Old 24th September 2018, 01:16 PM   #825
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Would be the opposite:

eating meat is to veganism as atheism is to religion ..

However, the point was I tried to make sense of your car comparison. I'm glad you agree it didn't.

Hans
I was comparing cars to bikes, but... yeah.
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Old 24th September 2018, 01:55 PM   #826
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Question Rinse, repeat.

Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I was comparing cars to bikes, but... yeah.
Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
You claim that atheism is responsible for the crimes committed in China. What is it about atheism that, in your opinion, might be giving rise to such behavior?

Why do you believe Chinese atheists are committing such atrocities when atheists in, for example, Norway are not?
Either answer the questions or provide a link to the post where you allegedly addressed them.
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Old 24th September 2018, 01:56 PM   #827
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I was comparing cars to bikes, but... yeah.
But some people drive cars and ride bikes.

Are those like the people who don't believe in god but still like to go to church?

Or are they more like the people who believe in god but take a job in the government, even if it is nominally an atheist government?
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Old 24th September 2018, 04:07 PM   #828
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
But some people drive cars and ride bikes.

Are those like the people who don't believe in god but still like to go to church?

Or are they more like the people who believe in god but take a job in the government, even if it is nominally an atheist government?
Oh! Ohhhh. I see, an appeal to secret identity!
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Old 24th September 2018, 04:26 PM   #829
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
while we can quibble about Hitler status as an atheist, even he can't hold a candle to Atheist Monsters like Lenin, Stalin, and Mao.
Stalin went to a religious school and then a seminary as a trainee priest. Great training ground. Many, many monsters went down the same path. The church has a lot to answer for.
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Old 24th September 2018, 05:39 PM   #830
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh! Ohhhh. I see, an appeal to secret identity!
No need to go overboard. You already convinced me christianity is vile and false.
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Old 24th September 2018, 05:54 PM   #831
The Big Dog
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Stalin went to a religious school and then a seminary as a trainee priest. Great training ground. Many, many monsters went down the same path. The church has a lot to answer for.
And there are very few fanatics worse than the converted. As proved by absolute monster Stalin. They become unhinged, morally depraved, desperate to prove themselves that they are loyal to the new regime, to show that they have thrown off any trace of the old morality and to prove it they embrace the most aggressive aspects of the new, to prove that they are new men, and if it takes shooting 78,000 clergy, by Marx that is what they will do.

Just read anti-religous converts who post on this website.

It is known as the Zeal of the Convert. Skeptics are already well aware of its impact
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Last edited by The Big Dog; 24th September 2018 at 05:57 PM.
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Old 24th September 2018, 09:23 PM   #832
abaddon
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
while we can quibble about Hitler status as an atheist, even he can't hold a candle to Atheist Monsters like Lenin, Stalin, and Mao.
Really? Explain why your pope has concluded an agreement re the appointment of bishops in China in that case.

We all know why you avoid that and why you keep avoiding it.
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Old 24th September 2018, 10:35 PM   #833
dann
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Quote:
How unsearchable are His judgments, and His ways past finding out!
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 24th September 2018, 10:51 PM   #834
dann
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
veganism is to eating meat as atheism is to religion.

Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Would be the opposite:

eating meat is to veganism as atheism is to religion ..

No, I think it's more like:

Quote:
veganism is to eating meat as atheism is to eating the body of Christ.

They find it unsavoury.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 24th September 2018, 10:59 PM   #835
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Supposed to taste like pork, so properly cooked I would.
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Old 24th September 2018, 11:08 PM   #836
Thor 2
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post

Just read anti-religous converts who post on this website.

Wow! The Big Dog has got it right at last. We are ant-religious not anti - the religious. This is a red letter day folks.
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Old 25th September 2018, 01:38 AM   #837
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Hitler? Saddam Hussein? Idi Amin? General Pinochet? Mugabe? Dick Cheney? ( ) Mussolini? Franco? Enver Pasha (architect of the Armenian genocide)? General Tojo? (WW2 Japanese commander).

You really should read more, old boy. Your knowledge of world events is sadly lacking.
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
while we can quibble about Hitler status as an atheist, even he can't hold a candle to Atheist Monsters like Lenin, Stalin, and Mao.
Strange that you make no mention of the atrocities committed by the Christian Pinochet, the Christian Mugabe, the Muslim Amin, the Catholic and Catholic-supported Franco. It's almost as if you care more about putting down atheists on the internet than the very real human rights abuses that religious believers have carried out. Have you nothing to say on this?

While we're on the subject of abuses, this was on the BBC this morning:
Quote:
Chechyna has opened the first concentration camp for homosexuals since Hitler, where campaigners say gay men are being tortured with electric shocks and beaten to death.

It comes after it was claimed 100 gay men had been detained and three killed in Chechnya last week.


[President] Kadyrov, who introduced Islamic rule in the Muslim-majority region, has been accused of earlier human rights violations.
TBD, where is your outrage, and where is the outrage of religious leaders around the world?
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Old 25th September 2018, 02:43 AM   #838
David Mo
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
while we can quibble about Hitler status as an atheist, even he can't hold a candle to Atheist Monsters like Lenin, Stalin, and Mao.
Have you ever heard of the Holocaust? Are you a negacionist?
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Old 25th September 2018, 03:03 AM   #839
David Mo
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Strange that you make no mention of the atrocities committed by the Christian Pinochet, the Christian Mugabe, the Muslim Amin, the Catholic and Catholic-supported Franco. It's almost as if you care more about putting down atheists on the internet than the very real human rights abuses that religious believers have carried out. Have you nothing to say on this?

While we're on the subject of abuses, this was on the BBC this morning:


TBD, where is your outrage, and where is the outrage of religious leaders around the world?
n Spain there are still more than one hundred thousand disappeared under the regime of General Franco, a great Catholic blessed by his holiness the Pope. Not counting so many other legal murders that deserved the name of "Crusade". Two other monsters.
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Old 25th September 2018, 03:08 AM   #840
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Oooh. Atheists are evil.

I'm not impressed by the OP's premise. It's based on idiocy.
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