ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old Yesterday, 12:08 PM   #1561
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
 
abaddon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 18,166
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Plasma physics in relation to comets superstition nonsense??

How? Maybe you’d could explain yourself a little better.
Why bother? You have little hope of understanding.

For myself, I am content to watch you embarrass yourself proposing and supporting such garbage.

To me, such flailing is entertainment.
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?


...love and buttercakes...
abaddon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 01:03 PM   #1562
jonesdave116
Master Poster
 
jonesdave116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,598
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
When the electric field strength is high enough for the rocky nucleus to being emmiting dust.

Ceres has the same composition as Bennu...and Tempel 1
And, as I have pointed out before, this is a strike against the EC woo! Asteroids are permanently exposed to the solar wind. A comet will have its highest charges when the solar wind also has permanent access to the surface.
In the case of asteroids, this is not causing a dust coma, except in an infinitesimally small percentage, and that likely due to other mechanisms. This includes a shed load on eccentric orbits. A fact that you continually fail to address, and wrecks your EC woo. Strike one.
So, back to comets; the time when they have their highest charge, due to charging from the solar wind, is the time when they are least dusty! Strike two. And then, as the solar wind is excluded, and the only charging is tiny, and coming from the photoelectric effect, they become dustier! Strike three, you are out.
Don't like baseball? Prefer cricket? I'm sure I can come up with at least seven more fatal flaws in your woo to leave you all out for 0.
__________________
“There is in every village a torch - the teacher; and an extinguisher - the priest.” - Victor Hugo

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
jonesdave116 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 02:17 PM   #1563
jonesdave116
Master Poster
 
jonesdave116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,598
Time for some words of wisdom from Tim Thompson from nearly 15 years ago;


Quote:
There is no honesty in the electric cosmos, it is dominated by preconception. You can see this clearly in the way they practice "science by exegesis", using literary techniques, and criticizing phrases & passages. But when they try to follow the form of "science", suggesting "scientific" explanations, like the simple circuit model for a solar flare, they can't even make their own model physically consistent with their own explanation! When do you finally decide that enough is enough? How many gross, simple factual errors do you think are OK, before you are willing to call something "stupid"? I actually have a pretty decent level of tolerance for error based on ignorance, but errors based on a fundamental dishonesty are intolerable when peddled as "science". At its core, the electric cosmos is based on dishonesty, not science, and you cannot ever tolerate that.
https://forum.cosmoquest.org/showthr...320#post477320
__________________
“There is in every village a torch - the teacher; and an extinguisher - the priest.” - Victor Hugo

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
jonesdave116 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 03:48 PM   #1564
JeanTate
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,016
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Scientists solve mystery of why comets emit X-rays



Electron acceleration by wave turbulence in a magnetized plasma
Hmm ... I cannot see anything there that is per the EC.

May I conclude that either there is no EC, or that you have no idea what it is?
JeanTate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 03:54 PM   #1565
JeanTate
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,016
Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Why bother? You have little hope of understanding.

For myself, I am content to watch you embarrass yourself proposing and supporting such garbage.

To me, such flailing is entertainment.
Sol88’s posts in this thread certainly do have considerable entertainment value!
JeanTate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 07:41 PM   #1566
Sol88
Illuminator
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,779
Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Why bother? You have little hope of understanding.

For myself, I am content to watch you embarrass yourself proposing and supporting such garbage.

To me, such flailing is entertainment.

Grab the sport and settle in, it’s just starting to get interesting!
__________________
"Goes without saying that nothing electrical happened." [Jonesdavid116]

"No, never electric discharges" [Tusenfem]

Dust, if you are talking about mass. Vacuum if you are talking about volume.[Jonesdave116 7/12/18]
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 07:47 PM   #1567
Sol88
Illuminator
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,779
Originally Posted by JeanTate View Post
Sol88’s posts in this thread certainly do have considerable entertainment value!

The dust is being emitted and accelerated form the comet via a complex interaction with surface electric fields, ambipolar electric fields, Hall electric field and the solar wind motional electric field.

Your job jt, is to prove me wrong.

Sublimation not needed.
__________________
"Goes without saying that nothing electrical happened." [Jonesdavid116]

"No, never electric discharges" [Tusenfem]

Dust, if you are talking about mass. Vacuum if you are talking about volume.[Jonesdave116 7/12/18]
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 09:58 PM   #1568
Sol88
Illuminator
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,779
These currents produced move in curcuits. The charged dust constitutes part of this current system.

Electrons go one way, ions the other.

All pretty mainstream.
__________________
"Goes without saying that nothing electrical happened." [Jonesdavid116]

"No, never electric discharges" [Tusenfem]

Dust, if you are talking about mass. Vacuum if you are talking about volume.[Jonesdave116 7/12/18]
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 04:41 AM   #1569
jonesdave116
Master Poster
 
jonesdave116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,598
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
The dust is being emitted and accelerated form the comet via a complex interaction with surface electric fields, ambipolar electric fields, Hall electric field and the solar wind motional electric field.

Your job jt, is to prove me wrong.

Sublimation not needed.
Wrong. Nobody is saying that that is how the dust is being accelerated. Only you, and you know Jack about the relevant science. Therefore it is not up to us to disprove this idiocy - that isn't how science works - it is up to you to prove it. And, for the umpteenth time - sublimation is OBSERVED. Therefore your woo is not required.
__________________
“There is in every village a torch - the teacher; and an extinguisher - the priest.” - Victor Hugo

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
jonesdave116 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 04:44 AM   #1570
jonesdave116
Master Poster
 
jonesdave116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,598
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
These currents produced move in curcuits. The charged dust constitutes part of this current system.

Electrons go one way, ions the other.

All pretty mainstream.
Which is not observed, and nor is anyone claiming such a thing. Fail.
__________________
“There is in every village a torch - the teacher; and an extinguisher - the priest.” - Victor Hugo

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
jonesdave116 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 04:47 AM   #1571
jonesdave116
Master Poster
 
jonesdave116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,598
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Grab the sport and settle in, it’s just starting to get interesting!
No, it is not getting interesting. The data is in. You lost. Your laughably silly 'model' failed miserably. Zero evidence, zero mechanisms, zero science.
__________________
“There is in every village a torch - the teacher; and an extinguisher - the priest.” - Victor Hugo

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
jonesdave116 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 05:15 AM   #1572
Sol88
Illuminator
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,779
Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
No, it is not getting interesting. The data is in. You lost. Your laughably silly 'model' failed miserably. Zero evidence, zero mechanisms, zero science.

Such a tosser, jd116.

You are completely ignorant

Gave you a viable mechanism and you choose to ignore it.

What makes you think the ambipolar electric field is not accelerating NEGATIVELY CHARGED DUST of the nucleus?

The root of a comet tail - Rosetta ion observations at comet 67P/Churyumov--Gerasimenko

Onthe ion-neutral coupling in cometary comae

Size of a plasma cloud matters & Astrophysics The polarisation electric field of a small-scale comet ionosphere

Cometary Dust

Electron and Ion Dynamics of the Solar Wind Interaction with a Weakly Outgassing Comet

Energy conversion in cometary atmospheres Hybrid modeling of 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko

Spontaneous formation of nonspherical water ice grains in a plasma environment

Surface charging and electrostatic dust acceleration at the nucleus of comet 67P during periods of low activity

Is near-surface ice the driver of dust activity on 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko

Unexpected and significant findings in comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko: an interdisciplinary view

Possible observation of charged nanodust from comet 67P/Churyumov

Quote:
We emphasize that the solar wind density is highly variable in time, accordingly the surface potential of the nucleus and the energy of the charged nanodust particles fluctuate as well.



Sublimation can not do it as quite a few papers have said.
__________________
"Goes without saying that nothing electrical happened." [Jonesdavid116]

"No, never electric discharges" [Tusenfem]

Dust, if you are talking about mass. Vacuum if you are talking about volume.[Jonesdave116 7/12/18]
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 06:27 AM   #1573
jonesdave116
Master Poster
 
jonesdave116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,598
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Such a tosser, jd116.

You are completely ignorant

Gave you a viable mechanism and you choose to ignore it.

What makes you think the ambipolar electric field is not accelerating NEGATIVELY CHARGED DUST of the nucleus?

The root of a comet tail - Rosetta ion observations at comet 67P/Churyumov--Gerasimenko

Onthe ion-neutral coupling in cometary comae

Size of a plasma cloud matters & Astrophysics The polarisation electric field of a small-scale comet ionosphere

Cometary Dust

Electron and Ion Dynamics of the Solar Wind Interaction with a Weakly Outgassing Comet

Energy conversion in cometary atmospheres Hybrid modeling of 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko

Spontaneous formation of nonspherical water ice grains in a plasma environment

Surface charging and electrostatic dust acceleration at the nucleus of comet 67P during periods of low activity

Is near-surface ice the driver of dust activity on 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko

Unexpected and significant findings in comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko: an interdisciplinary view

Possible observation of charged nanodust from comet 67P/Churyumov






Sublimation can not do it as quite a few papers have said.
Sublimation is observed. Therefore your model is dead. The ambipolar field, if it exists, is not happening anywhere near the nucleus when the solar wind is nowhere near the nucleus. Fail. None of this has anything to do with EDM, or discharges, or asteroids on elliptical orbits failing to turn into comets. You failed. Totally. No evidence, no mechanism, no science.
__________________
“There is in every village a torch - the teacher; and an extinguisher - the priest.” - Victor Hugo

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
jonesdave116 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 06:40 AM   #1574
jonesdave116
Master Poster
 
jonesdave116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,598
Quote:
What makes you think the ambipolar electric field is not accelerating NEGATIVELY CHARGED DUST of the nucleus?
Because any putative ambipolar field cannot occur until the cometary electrons and ions have been picked up by the solar wind. A solar wind that is getting nowhere near the nucleus for long periods when the comet is at its dustiest. Duh!
__________________
“There is in every village a torch - the teacher; and an extinguisher - the priest.” - Victor Hugo

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
jonesdave116 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 06:53 AM   #1575
jonesdave116
Master Poster
 
jonesdave116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,598
Quote:
Gave you a viable mechanism and you choose to ignore it.
Nope, never happened. Still waiting.
__________________
“There is in every village a torch - the teacher; and an extinguisher - the priest.” - Victor Hugo

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
jonesdave116 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 11:09 AM   #1576
ferd burfle
Graduate Poster
 
ferd burfle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Just short of Zeta II Reticuli
Posts: 1,417
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
The dust is being emitted and accelerated form the comet via a complex interaction with surface electric fields, ambipolar electric fields, Hall electric field and the solar wind motional electric field.

Your job jt, is to prove me wrong.

Sublimation not needed.

Hey Sol, not so many buzzwords in one post, please. The game's no fun if we all get bingo at the same time. Seriously, can you explain the concept behind the Hall effect in your own words? No fair Googling! To be fair, maybe you can. I know for ****-sure you can't explain how it applies to your electric rock.
__________________
"You do not know anyone as stupid as Donald Trump. You just don’t.”-Fran Lebowitz
"A target doesn't need to be preselected"-Jabba
ferd burfle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 12:48 PM   #1577
Sol88
Illuminator
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,779
Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
Sublimation is observed. Therefore your model is dead. The ambipolar field, if it exists, is not happening anywhere near the nucleus when the solar wind is nowhere near the nucleus. Fail. None of this has anything to do with EDM, or discharges, or asteroids on elliptical orbits failing to turn into comets. You failed. Totally. No evidence, no mechanism, no science.
We’re not talking transient frost patches, we’re talking about the nucleus being mostly ice.

There is no surface sublimation observed. Sublimation is not a viable mechanism to remove μm size dust, it’s a busted flush champ, according to the new papers

.
__________________
"Goes without saying that nothing electrical happened." [Jonesdavid116]

"No, never electric discharges" [Tusenfem]

Dust, if you are talking about mass. Vacuum if you are talking about volume.[Jonesdave116 7/12/18]
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 12:50 PM   #1578
Sol88
Illuminator
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,779
Originally Posted by ferd burfle View Post
Hey Sol, not so many buzzwords in one post, please. The game's no fun if we all get bingo at the same time. Seriously, can you explain the concept behind the Hall effect in your own words? No fair Googling! To be fair, maybe you can. I know for ****-sure you can't explain how it applies to your electric rock.
Hello Freddie
__________________
"Goes without saying that nothing electrical happened." [Jonesdavid116]

"No, never electric discharges" [Tusenfem]

Dust, if you are talking about mass. Vacuum if you are talking about volume.[Jonesdave116 7/12/18]
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 12:55 PM   #1579
Sol88
Illuminator
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,779
Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
Because any putative ambipolar field cannot occur until the cometary electrons and ions have been picked up by the solar wind. A solar wind that is getting nowhere near the nucleus for long periods when the comet is at its dustiest. Duh!
Oh...

I see you a still struggling to come to terms with Electron and Ion Dynamics of the Solar Wind Interaction with a Weakly Outgassing Comet

Quote:
Identifying the origin of the suprathermal electron populationdeliverscluestothephysicalmechanismbehin dtheir acceleration or heating in the collisionless coma. Two mechanisms have been discussed in literature thus far: (i) heating of electrons through wave particle interactions, such as the singing comet waves (understood as an ion Weibel instability [43,52]) or lower hybrid waves [45], and (ii) the acceleration of electrons along the ambipolar electric field [29]. In the second scenario, solar wind electrons traveling toward the comet fall into the potential well that is generated by the gradient in electron number density [53,54]. Electrons born inside, i.e., the cometary electrons, are trapped unless they carry enough energy to escape. The potential scales as the electron thermal energy [29]; hence, only suprathermal electrons will be able to escape the nearcomet environment. Note that this interpretation is valid on subion time scales only, as quasineutrality will act such that electrons must eventually leave the potential well. Without ruling out the influence of wave particle interactions, our simulation favors the ambipolar electric field model, though this may not be the case atotheractivityphasesofthecomet.

Grab a cup of coffee sit down and have a good read ‘ol mate.

Standard mainstream plasma physics, in a peer reviewed paper.
__________________
"Goes without saying that nothing electrical happened." [Jonesdavid116]

"No, never electric discharges" [Tusenfem]

Dust, if you are talking about mass. Vacuum if you are talking about volume.[Jonesdave116 7/12/18]
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 01:02 PM   #1580
jonesdave116
Master Poster
 
jonesdave116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,598
Quote:
Electron and Ion Dynamics of the Solar Wind Interaction with a Weakly Outgassing Comet


Has nothing to do with a comet when it is at its most active. As the authors pointed out for the hard of thinking in the title.
__________________
“There is in every village a torch - the teacher; and an extinguisher - the priest.” - Victor Hugo

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
jonesdave116 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 01:09 PM   #1581
jonesdave116
Master Poster
 
jonesdave116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,598
Quote:
Grab a cup of coffee sit down and have a good read ‘ol mate.
Already read it a few times. No EDM, no discharges, and nothing about asteroids on highly elliptical orbits turning into comets. Irrelevant.
__________________
“There is in every village a torch - the teacher; and an extinguisher - the priest.” - Victor Hugo

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
jonesdave116 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:27 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.