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Tags celebrity incidents , celebrity opinions , Ellen Degeneres , George W. Bush

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Old 8th October 2019, 05:05 PM   #41
I Am The Scum
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Two attorneys can viciously fight against each other in court and still go for drinks afterward.
George W Bush was an architect of torture and mass civilian casualties in a war built on lies. It's a little different.
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Old 8th October 2019, 05:08 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
SOme of the attitudes in this thread sum up everything I do not like about the dogmatic Left in this country...which, surprise, are the same things I do not like about the dogmatic Right.
In fact that people with differing political opinions seem to automatically hate each other is what could destroy democracy in this country. Democracy depends on Compromise, and compromise with somebody you think is evil is hard.
Right now, the Right is displaying this much more then the Left, but I think the Left is showing signs of eventually catching up.
And of course it's the other side that is in the wrong, you side is as pure as the driven snow...
Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
SOOOO.....all rich people like each other? They must, according to this thread, I mean money bridges all gaps, right?

Adults - real adults - can put aside differences.

People can argue to the point of extreme rudeness here at this forum, yet if you go to the Member's Only area you will see these same people cracking jokes, giving advice to each other and talking.

There used to be a thing with the JREF called The Amazing Meeting where people from here and other skeptic arenas would meet in Vegas.

Two attorneys can viciously fight against each other in court and still go for drinks afterward.

What a silly thread. Everything is a gawdam crisis these days. The lambs are laying with the lions, oh my word!!!
Good posts from both of you who, I think, are on opposite sides of the US political divide. There is still hope.
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Old 8th October 2019, 05:10 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
George W Bush was an architect of torture and mass civilian casualties in a war built on lies. It's a little different.
Perhaps you should write a strongly worded letter to Ellen Degeneres.
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Old 8th October 2019, 05:26 PM   #44
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Well, my reaction? I simply don't care. If I ever get worked up by two millionaires interacting, heaven help me.
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Old 8th October 2019, 05:33 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Wow . . . not exactly the reaction I thought I'd see.

I thought it was kinda cool that two people with opposite viewpoints can be friends. Maybe Bush has convinced her on some economic policies and Ellen has convinced him on some social policies?
Maybe he convinced her that manufacturing evidence to lie an nation into a war that kill hundreds of thousands, and torturing innocent teenage goat herders, is not really that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things?
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Old 8th October 2019, 05:37 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
George W Bush was an architect of torture and mass civilian casualties in a war built on lies. It's a little different.
Just a little.

Or maybe it's basically the same thing as having a different take on the phrase "Happy Holidays."
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Old 8th October 2019, 06:21 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Good posts from both of you who, I think, are on opposite sides of the US political divide. There is still hope.
wrong.
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Old 8th October 2019, 06:26 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
wrong.
That is why I wrote “I think”.
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Old 8th October 2019, 06:29 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Wait, why does he deserve us seeing it every time it's brought up?
This is the effect of his hasty decision to proceed with such a costly war.
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Old 8th October 2019, 06:31 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
"Happy Holidays."
Whoah, hang on there. That's an unforgivable sin, just like kneeling during the anthem.
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Old 8th October 2019, 06:40 PM   #51
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The real problem is that although these polticians do a great deal of demonizing each other in public, they don't really believe a lot of the things they say. Major Democrats don't consider Bush a war criminal, just as major Republicans don't believe that Obama was an Alinsky plant. It's all a show for the gullible rubes on both sides who believe these nutty things.
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Old 8th October 2019, 06:44 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
The real problem is that although these polticians do a great deal of demonizing each other in public, they don't really believe a lot of the things they say. Major Democrats don't consider Bush a war criminal, just as major Republicans don't believe that Obama was an Alinsky plant. It's all a show for the gullible rubes on both sides who believe these nutty things.
Does Trump count as a major Republican?
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Old 8th October 2019, 06:55 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Does Trump count as a major Republican?
That's exactly my point. You assume he believes all the things he says. Politicians lie all the time. It's a form of theatre. Trump is a showman, always has been, always will be.
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Old 8th October 2019, 07:08 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
That's exactly my point. You assume he believes all the things he says. Politicians lie all the time. It's a form of theatre. Trump is a showman, always has been, always will be.
No, actually I don't assume that. It's just that I've decided that it generally doesn't matter whether they really believe what they say. Does it matter whether Alex Jones sincerely believes all the things he says on the radio or if it's just his schtick? I would argue that the end result is the same either way.
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Old 8th October 2019, 07:11 PM   #55
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I would add to the above though, that if Trump knew that Obama's birth certificate was real and all of that birther stuff was just "a form of theatre" as you put it, isn't that even more troubling to you?
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Old 8th October 2019, 07:35 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
I would add to the above though, that if Trump knew that Obama's birth certificate was real and all of that birther stuff was just "a form of theatre" as you put it, isn't that even more troubling to you?
No, Dolt 45 has always been a white supremacist - he literally believes that he has superior genes, among other pseudoscientific nonsense.

As for forgiving GWB...um, has he ever shown contrition for his acts? As I recall, he last said the low point of his presidency was when Kanye West said he didn't care about black people. If he's not so much as asking for forgiveness, well, he's free to live his life I suppose, but I don't see why I should just grant him forgiveness.
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Old 8th October 2019, 07:42 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Does Trump count as a major Republican?
I've never considered him such.
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Old 8th October 2019, 08:36 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
I would add to the above though, that if Trump knew that Obama's birth certificate was real and all of that birther stuff was just "a form of theatre" as you put it, isn't that even more troubling to you?
I think Brainster's fine with electing and supporting total frauds. He seems to think it's just the way of things, and there's nothing to be done about it, anyway.
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Old 9th October 2019, 12:41 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Meanwhile, today the Supreme Court heard a case to determine whether gays can be protected from discrimination. Looks like they're leaning towards "no". It's 2019 and I can be fired for being gay.

Go ahead, tell me how both sides are full of good people.
I hope you strip the court of its Rainbow Monkeyface.

Sorry, not a subject I should be making light of. Do you mind linking to the story?
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Old 9th October 2019, 12:53 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
Well, my reaction? I simply don't care. If I ever get worked up by two millionaires interacting, heaven help me.
Depends on who the millionaires are though, doesn’t it?

I mean, I was shocked when Trump and Putin got along so nicely. I never thought Putin would sink so low. Or when Mao embraced Nixon! How could Mao sink so low! Or when Saddam Hussein shook Donald Runesfeld’s hand! How could Saddam sink so low! Literally ROFLMAO
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 9th October 2019, 01:00 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I hope you strip the court of its Rainbow Monkeyface.

Sorry, not a subject I should be making light of. Do you mind linking to the story?
Here you go:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49966287

And if you want a little more analysis:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...imination.html

Really the best solution would be for congress to make these protections explicit and not rely on the Supreme Court to read it into an older law that wasn't originally intended to protect sexual orientation or gender identity.
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Old 9th October 2019, 05:24 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
SOme of the attitudes in this thread sum up everything I do not like about the dogmatic Left in this country...which, surprise, are the same things I do not like about the dogmatic Right.
In fact that people with differing political opinions seem to automatically hate each other is what could destroy democracy in this country. Democracy depends on Compromise, and compromise with somebody you think is evil is hard.
Let's actually state the political difference. This isn't a disagreement about if a budget item is efficient. One side thinks the other side is so sinful that if they were allowed to express their love like everyone else the institution of marriage would be destroyed. As such, they should never be allowed to be married. They are lesser and don't deserve to marry the person they love.

The sides are those that believe they have a divine mandate to kill homosexuals as abominations, and those who are gay and want to be alive.

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Old 9th October 2019, 05:50 AM   #63
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The question is how much of these truly reprehensible actions should politicians be able to "leave at the office".

You have people like Kissinger, who ought to have been convicted as a war criminal, regularly hob-nobbing with other elites at social events. Seems that the longtime standard is that these people can engage in truly vile acts during their 9-5 career, and be treated as an upstanding member of the community in their off time.

I think the lack of any consequences is responsible for enabling this bad behavior. There is credible evidence that the Bush administration deliberately mislead the American public in order to support the wars in the Middle East. It is undeniable that he authorized torture programs for POW's.

Should these people just be able to wash the blood off their hands? Should we all just coo and laugh because Michelle Obama slipped him a breath mint? I mean, he seems like a swell guy to hang out with, so let's sweep all the other stuff under the rug.

We look at where we are today, with an administration who advocates policies that are openly and unapologetically cruel, how much of that is only possible because of decades of looking the other way for these murderers with hearts of gold.
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Old 9th October 2019, 05:59 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
This is the effect of his hasty decision to proceed with such a costly war.
Yes, I understand that part. And the effect we're talking about is that when Bush comes up here, we see references to Iraq here.

Bush doesn't see Iraq when his name comes up here. We do. Why does Bush deserve for you and I to see Iraq whenever his name comes up? How is that a meaningful consequence?

Maybe if he couldn't hang out with his friend Ellen, because every time he does she gives him a hard time about Iraq, that would be meaningful. But that's not what you're talking about.

So how does us seeing Iraq whenever Bush's name come up become a consequence for him?
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Old 9th October 2019, 06:01 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
The question is how much of these truly reprehensible actions should politicians be able to "leave at the office".

You have people like Kissinger, who ought to have been convicted as a war criminal, regularly hob-nobbing with other elites at social events. Seems that the longtime standard is that these people can engage in truly vile acts during their 9-5 career, and be treated as an upstanding member of the community in their off time.

I think the lack of any consequences is responsible for enabling this bad behavior. There is credible evidence that the Bush administration deliberately mislead the American public in order to support the wars in the Middle East. It is undeniable that he authorized torture programs for POW's.

Should these people just be able to wash the blood off their hands? Should we all just coo and laugh because Michelle Obama slipped him a breath mint? I mean, he seems like a swell guy to hang out with, so let's sweep all the other stuff under the rug.

We look at where we are today, with an administration who advocates policies that are openly and unapologetically cruel, how much of that is only possible because of decades of looking the other way for these murderers with hearts of gold.
Okay, but why would Kissinger, and not Nixon, or Bush, or Reagan be prosecuted for war crimes? And when you talk about leaving them at the office you suggest that those people were well-known for their “vile acts” and accepted by the same people outside of hours? I think it is more likely that those who hated their vile policies and/or saw them as criminals hardly hobnobbed with them after work.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 9th October 2019, 06:07 AM   #66
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Listen this is how I've always looked at it.

Ask yourself these questions and be honest.

Step 1. Take the whatever "the system" is you are discussing; anything from a 1 on 1 personal relationship to the entire functioning culture or society or anything in between.

Step 2. Ask yourself where "the line" is. At what point does someone stop being wrong or misinformed or "just having a different opinion" but instead becomes the enemy.

Step 3. Are there enough people on your side of "the line" to maintain the system defined in Step 1?

If the answer is no, you HAVE TO ADJUST THE LINE.
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Old 9th October 2019, 06:10 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Listen this is how I've always looked at it.

Ask yourself these questions and be honest.

Step 1. Take the whatever "the system" is you are discussing; anything from a 1 on 1 personal relationship to the entire functioning culture or society or anything in between.

Step 2. Ask yourself where "the line" is. At what point does someone stop being wrong or misinformed or "just having a different opinion" but instead becomes the enemy.

Step 3. Are there enough people on your side of "the line" to maintain the system defined in Step 1?

If the answer is no, you HAVE TO ADJUST THE LINE.
I don’t understand what this means.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 9th October 2019, 06:18 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I don’t understand what this means.
Okay.

Let's say you live in a society of 100 people.

Now let's say that in that society of 100 people 60 of them are "bad" by (g)your standards. And not just "bad" as in unpleasant but, like I said "line crossing" bad, "no longer able to be interacted with civilly" bad.

But, let's say, that this 100 person society needs a minimum of 50 people to function; to build the roads and tend the crops and all that jazz, and that societal function requires people to at least be able to interact somewhat.

See the problem now? If you raise your standards so that the number of acceptable people drops below that "minimum number to keep the system self sustaining" level, you got nowhere to go.

Basically I think a question a lot of people don't ask themselves is basically that, can the "system" I'm talking about work if the only people available to work in it are those that meet "my standards?" And if the answer to that question is "no" you have to make some adjustments.
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Old 9th October 2019, 06:36 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Okay, but why would Kissinger, and not Nixon, or Bush, or Reagan be prosecuted for war crimes? And when you talk about leaving them at the office you suggest that those people were well-known for their “vile acts” and accepted by the same people outside of hours? I think it is more likely that those who hated their vile policies and/or saw them as criminals hardly hobnobbed with them after work.
I would be more than comfortable with any of those people being prosecuted as war criminals. Nixon is an interesting example, because despite resigning in disgrace, there was some willingness to treat him with dignity and respect as the years went on.

I think it's a rich people thing. Let's just set aside politics, because I think people, generally speaking, have a much easier time compartmentalizing politics than other things.

You have Epstein, as an example. He was a convicted sex offender of children and had no problem moving through the social world of the rich. It was an open secret that he was a child rapist prior to his conviction, and straight up public record after the Florida case, and people still welcomed him into social circles.

Ordinary people are out there passing laws that pedos can't live within 5 light years of public park, but the rich are inviting them to their fancy parties.

I don't know what it is about rich people that such things just don't seem to matter. There is a willingness to not care about such obvious failings.
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Old 9th October 2019, 06:48 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Thanks for the suggestion, but I've got Ellen Degeneres and George W Bush being friends, so I'm doing alright.
Not sure how their friendship belongs to you, but any port in a storm, I guess.
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Old 9th October 2019, 06:50 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I've never considered him such.
Just as some consider the sky not to be blue or water to be wet.
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Old 9th October 2019, 06:51 AM   #72
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I don't remember Michelle Obama's friendship with George Bush causing anyone any concern.

But I don't know if African American Woman or Gay Woman ranks higher or lower on the "Woke" scale. I haven't gotten my updated copy of the flowchart yet this month so maybe Ellen is more of a traitor to cause then Michelle.
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Old 9th October 2019, 06:55 AM   #73
johnny karate
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These threads in which people get upset at other people getting upset never cease to amuse me.
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Old 9th October 2019, 06:55 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Not sure how their friendship belongs to you, but any port in a storm, I guess.
I could explain it to you, if you like.
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Old 9th October 2019, 06:57 AM   #75
JoeMorgue
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
These threads in which people get upset at other people getting upset never cease to amuse me.
No need to get upset about it.
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Old 9th October 2019, 07:09 AM   #76
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Rich white lady says and does rich white lady things.
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Old 9th October 2019, 07:11 AM   #77
johnny karate
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I could explain it to you, if you like.
Feel free, although I will warn you that my interest level in your tedious sophistry is pretty low.
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Old 9th October 2019, 07:13 AM   #78
johnny karate
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
No need to get upset about it.
I'm livid.
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Old 9th October 2019, 07:21 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I don't remember Michelle Obama's friendship with George Bush causing anyone any concern.
There were similar complaints then, and similar defenders. This isn't a novel issue.

https://newrepublic.com/article/1454...-george-w-bush

https://www.thenation.com/article/th...tion-of-dubya/
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Old 9th October 2019, 07:35 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
There were similar complaints then, and similar defenders. This isn't a novel issue.
Just like people complaining about things isn't new.

But social media has given us all a voice, so now everyone's complaints are heard by everyone else.

The people who complain about the complainers without the slightest bit of self-awareness probably isn't new either, but still remains entertaining.
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