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Old 8th March 2020, 07:16 AM   #1
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Florida Woman Changed Voters’ Party Affiliations, Officials Say

Cheryl A. Hall falsified 10 registration forms, at least six of which enrolled Democratic and independent voters as Republicans, said the authorities, who are eyeing an additional 109 forms.

New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/07/u...ion-fraud.html
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Old 8th March 2020, 08:20 AM   #2
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I saw this yesterday. She worked for Florida First, which receives funds from America First Policies, which is a Super PAC that supports Trump's agenda.

I think this needs to get dug into deeper.
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Old 8th March 2020, 08:45 AM   #3
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Butbut obama1!
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Old 8th March 2020, 08:49 AM   #4
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Ms Hall is rocking the Tweaker look, methinks.

So if she changed affiliation with 6 of ten Dems and Indies, does that mean she changed 4 Repubs too? Seems she is an equal opportunity nitwit if so.
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Old 8th March 2020, 09:33 AM   #5
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What is the effect of this fraud?

I assume it prevents these voters from voting in the Democratic primary in Florida. Whatever it is, it's unacceptable and I hope they prosecute her to the full extent of the law. I hope the Florida GOP denounces her and severs any association with her.

But I don't see how it has any real electoral effect.
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Old 8th March 2020, 10:03 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What is the effect of this fraud?

I assume it prevents these voters from voting in the Democratic primary in Florida. Whatever it is, it's unacceptable and I hope they prosecute her to the full extent of the law. I hope the Florida GOP denounces her and severs any association with her.

But I don't see how it has any real electoral effect.
I hope I'm proven wrong, but I think they'd endorse Medicare for All before they'd do that.
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Old 8th March 2020, 11:40 AM   #7
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The article also says she changed the voter's dates of birth, SS#s etc. She was not just switching party affiliations. In fact, the article says only the names were correct, and that other questionable registrations were not in her handwriting.

So, uhhh...strange headline.
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Old 8th March 2020, 02:29 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What is the effect of this fraud?

I assume it prevents these voters from voting in the Democratic primary in Florida. Whatever it is, it's unacceptable and I hope they prosecute her to the full extent of the law. I hope the Florida GOP denounces her and severs any association with her.

But I don't see how it has any real electoral effect.
In tight, small communities where a handful of votes can change the outcome it can matter. On a larger level probably no real effect.

However, the GOP constantly accuses the Democratic Party of voter fraud, so there is also the irony factor.
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Old 8th March 2020, 03:34 PM   #9
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I'd guess she was getting paid by the registration, and just making it up. Pretty much what happened to ACORN.
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Old 8th March 2020, 03:38 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
The article also says she changed the voter's dates of birth, SS#s etc. She was not just switching party affiliations. In fact, the article says only the names were correct, and that other questionable registrations were not in her handwriting.

So, uhhh...strange headline.


If I had to guess, she was setting it up so they'd have excuses to deny them their right to vote. "Look at all the irregularities in the "voter information"!"
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Old 8th March 2020, 03:40 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What is the effect of this fraud?

I assume it prevents these voters from voting in the Democratic primary in Florida. Whatever it is, it's unacceptable and I hope they prosecute her to the full extent of the law. I hope the Florida GOP denounces her and severs any association with her.

But I don't see how it has any real electoral effect.
Then why did she do it?
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Old 8th March 2020, 04:05 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
If I had to guess, she was setting it up so they'd have excuses to deny them their right to vote. "Look at all the irregularities in the "voter information"!"
I'd certainly agree. No doubt, in fact. But as for the headline....missing the point a bit, aren't they? If she only changed affiliation, that's a slightly more focused change, presumably to nix their ability to vote in the primary. But she butchered everything. Why headline with just the affiliation?
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Old 8th March 2020, 04:06 PM   #13
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I hope they throw the book at her.
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Old 8th March 2020, 04:12 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What is the effect of this fraud?

I assume it prevents these voters from voting in the Democratic primary in Florida. Whatever it is, it's unacceptable and I hope they prosecute her to the full extent of the law. I hope the Florida GOP denounces her and severs any association with her.

But I don't see how it has any real electoral effect.
I'm going to take a stab at this and guess it's like the problem with ACORN paying people to register people, paying them by the registration.

We are likely to find this woman got paid by the Republican registrations she generated.
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Old 8th March 2020, 04:14 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I'd guess she was getting paid by the registration, and just making it up. Pretty much what happened to ACORN.
Ninja'd me.
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Old 8th March 2020, 05:11 PM   #16
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I don't get the point of these sorts of organisations anyways.

Why not just have a State Elections Registration Office with a website where you can do it online (or can ring and order forms if you don't have internet) and have schools get their students to pre-register as they turn 17, and give out registration forms with any naturalization documents. Would seem easy enough to do and then there'd be no need to worry about this sort of rubbish.
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Old 9th March 2020, 09:58 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
I don't get the point of these sorts of organisations anyways.

Why not just have a State Elections Registration Office with a website where you can do it online (or can ring and order forms if you don't have internet) and have schools get their students to pre-register as they turn 17, and give out registration forms with any naturalization documents. Would seem easy enough to do and then there'd be no need to worry about this sort of rubbish.

In Canada, we have a check mark on our tax returns, that asks if we'd like CRA to share our information with Elections Canada, so that we're automatically registered to vote, with our most up-to-date information. We've had this for years, maybe decades now. I think the last time I had to figure out how to register to vote was literally my first election when I was in second year of University.

Annual taxes are the one point of contact between citizens and the government that almost 100% of people have almost every year, so why not leverage it like this?
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Old 9th March 2020, 10:06 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
If I had to guess, she was setting it up so they'd have excuses to deny them their right to vote. "Look at all the irregularities in the "voter information"!"
I agree wholeheartedly.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I'd certainly agree. No doubt, in fact. But as for the headline....missing the point a bit, aren't they? If she only changed affiliation, that's a slightly more focused change, presumably to nix their ability to vote in the primary. But she butchered everything. Why headline with just the affiliation?
From what is available right now she was certainly targeting those on the left. So whether it was just the affiliation or everything, it's still a concerted effort to cause issues for strictly left or independent voters. Barring any new information, she had no intent or desire to focus on the ones from the right.

Either way, the headline gets the point across. Woman targets lefty\independent voters to help the GOP.
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Old 9th March 2020, 10:09 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
I don't get the point of these sorts of organisations anyways.

Why not just have a State Elections Registration Office with a website where you can do it online (or can ring and order forms if you don't have internet) and have schools get their students to pre-register as they turn 17, and give out registration forms with any naturalization documents. Would seem easy enough to do and then there'd be no need to worry about this sort of rubbish.
The point is to register voters you think will vote your way.
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Old 9th March 2020, 10:27 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I agree wholeheartedly.



From what is available right now she was certainly targeting those on the left. So whether it was just the affiliation or everything, it's still a concerted effort to cause issues for strictly left or independent voters. Barring any new information, she had no intent or desire to focus on the ones from the right.

Either way, the headline gets the point across. Woman targets lefty\independent voters to help the GOP.
But the headline said 6 of the ten were left or indie, so were the other four repubs, or no affiliation?

The thing that gets me is that they found out about her when three registered dems came in to complain about a notice that their affiliation was switched. That means they were registered voters. Why would they be filling out voter registrations at a Republican drive?

Sounds more like this woman got a hold of a list, and either stupidly filled in bad info to collect a check for providing a pile of registrations, or stupidly thought she was going to disenfranchise voters by butchering their info, but it was so clumsy it was traced immediately to her. I think I'm leaning to the former.
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Old 9th March 2020, 10:32 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Cheryl A. Hall falsified 10 registration forms, at least six of which enrolled Democratic and independent voters as Republicans, said the authorities, who are eyeing an additional 109 forms.

New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/07/u...ion-fraud.html
The Republicans were right about voter frauds all along!
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Old 9th March 2020, 10:33 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
In Canada, we have a check mark on our tax returns, that asks if we'd like CRA to share our information with Elections Canada, so that we're automatically registered to vote, with our most up-to-date information. We've had this for years, maybe decades now. I think the last time I had to figure out how to register to vote was literally my first election when I was in second year of University.

Annual taxes are the one point of contact between citizens and the government that almost 100% of people have almost every year, so why not leverage it like this?
Almost 10 years of following American politics and elections has made me appreciate the Canadian system a whole lot more.
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Old 9th March 2020, 10:38 AM   #23
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//Note for clarification since it's been mentioned//

Regarding the thread title I (and this is a standard I picked up while an active member of another message board and retained it as I think it is useful) use the verbatim title of the article in question when creating a thread where I link to a news article and the article itself is the bulk of the content of the OP.
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Old 9th March 2020, 10:39 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Then why did she do it?
I have no idea. That's what I'm asking. Was this a rational strategy of some kind? Or just some kind of crazy?
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Old 9th March 2020, 11:21 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I have no idea. That's what I'm asking. Was this a rational strategy of some kind?
Who cares if it was rational?

She thought she was doing something to benefit something/somebody. It doesn't matter if she was correct or incorrect, it's wrong to do.
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Old 9th March 2020, 11:27 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
But the headline said 6 of the ten were left or indie, so were the other four repubs, or no affiliation?
Quote:
Hall submitted the forms to the Lake County Supervisor of Elections Office, authorities said. Elections officials flagged the forms because they included incorrect information, including birth dates, Social Security numbers or driver's license numbers.

Some of the forms changed the registrations of Democrats or no party affiliation to Republican, officials said.
Source
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Old 9th March 2020, 11:50 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Who cares if it was rational?
I do. I'm always interested in how these kinds of things happen, and what the underlying reasoning was (if any).

Quote:
She thought she was doing something to benefit something/somebody.
What, though, or who? I'm curious. Stop shaming my curiosity.

Quote:
It doesn't matter if she was correct or incorrect, it's wrong to do.
ALREADY ADDRESSED.
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Old 9th March 2020, 11:51 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Who cares if it was rational?
Well it probably wasn't legal, so we need another ad-hoc defense.
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Old 9th March 2020, 11:52 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Well it probably wasn't legal, so we need another ad-hoc defense.
ALREADY ADDRESSED

Why the dishonesty, Belz?
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Old 9th March 2020, 11:54 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What, though, or who? I'm curious. Stop shaming my curiosity.
She changed registered voters from what they wanted to Republican. Why are you feigning like you don't know who this is designed to help. The GOP, and everyone associated with the GOP in Florida.

ETA: Ugh, why do I feel like I just walked into an attempted "gotcha" by giving the simplest answer?
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Last edited by plague311; 9th March 2020 at 11:56 AM.
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Old 9th March 2020, 11:55 AM   #31
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You're tired old "It's not wrong until we define the exact level, kind, and motivation for the wrongness" game is not addressing things.
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Old 9th March 2020, 12:03 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I'd guess she was getting paid by the registration, and just making it up. Pretty much what happened to ACORN.
^This^
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Old 9th March 2020, 12:09 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
She changed registered voters from what they wanted to Republican. Why are you feigning like you don't know who this is designed to help. The GOP, and everyone associated with the GOP in Florida.
Which goes back to my original question: How exactly is this supposed to help the GOP? Even if we assume that's what she was trying to do (a reasonable assumption), how was it supposed to work?

The actual election doesn't care about party affiliation. The primaries are closed, so affiliation matters there. But locking Democrats out of the Democratic primary doesn't really help the GOP, does it?

I mean, if were done on a large scale, and targeted specifically at Biden voters, it could conceivably swing Florida to Sanders. Which might help the GOP in the general election, if Sanders gets the Democratic nomination and is the weaker of the two candidates against Trump.

I'm curious if that's what she thought she was doing. "This will help the GOP somehow!"

Is that what she actually thought? Would it actually have helped somehow?

Quote:
ETA: Ugh, why do I feel like I just walked into an attempted "gotcha" by giving the simplest answer?
Not a gotcha. Genuine curiosity about what this was supposed to achieve, and the thought process behind it. If that's a question that interests you, join me in my inquiry. If it's not, feel free to focus on something else. There's no gotcha here. No need for you to mount a defense.

ETA: You're probably feeling like this is an attempted gotcha because pgwenthold, Belz..., and JoeMorgue are telling you it must be, even though it demonstrably isn't.

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Old 9th March 2020, 12:10 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
You're tired old "It's not wrong until we define the exact level, kind, and motivation for the wrongness" game is not addressing things.
ALREADY ADDRESSED

Why the dishonesty, Joe?
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Old 9th March 2020, 12:15 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
In Canada, we have a check mark on our tax returns, that asks if we'd like CRA to share our information with Elections Canada, so that we're automatically registered to vote, with our most up-to-date information. We've had this for years, maybe decades now. I think the last time I had to figure out how to register to vote was literally my first election when I was in second year of University.

Annual taxes are the one point of contact between citizens and the government that almost 100% of people have almost every year, so why not leverage it like this?
For starters, in the U.S. elections are conducted at the state, county and municipal level. There is no national election authority. Some states give people the option of registering to vote when they obtain or renew a driver license, but it's nowhere close to universal.
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Old 9th March 2020, 12:17 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Which goes back to my original question: How exactly is this supposed to help the GOP? Even if we assume that's what she was trying to do (a reasonable assumption), how was it supposed to work?
I'm proposing more of a "Hanlon's Razor" but with a twist. Her actions were, obviously, malicious AND stupid. It's completely possible that her thought process was "lets create some confusion, and chaos in the Dem party, they just had issues in Iowa and maybe it will make them look really ******* dumb, and they'll lose!" Looking at her, she doesn't seem the type to really sit down and plan out her nefarious scheme.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The actual election doesn't care about party affiliation. The primaries are closed, so affiliation matters there. But locking Democrats out of the Democratic primary doesn't really help the GOP, does it?
It could by making them look incompetent or just causing overall issues with the voting process.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm curious if that's what she thought she was doing. "This will help the GOP somehow!"

Is that what she actually thought?
Occam's razor would lead in that general direction. I can't imagine that she was doing it thinking that it would somehow help the Dems. She's a lifelong Republican that is considered one of their party. Even according to quotes in the articles, she's been a long time, well respected individual in the GOP.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Would it actually have helped somehow?
I'm not sure, I don't really find that to be relevant in the same way you do, I believe.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Not a gotcha. Genuine curiosity about what this was supposed to achieve, and the thought process behind it. If that's a question that interests you, join me in my inquiry. If it's not, feel free to focus on something else. There's no gotcha here. No need for you to mount a defense.
I'm fairly confident in my impression that there wasn't a lot of thought behind it, but I am almost positive she thought it was going to help the GOP achieve...something. Which was enough for her to rack up 10 felony convictions and she's still almost assuredly going to get less time than the lady in Texas.
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Old 10th March 2020, 02:27 AM   #37
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Someone cheated on their homework.

She wanted to be paid for work she didn't do, so she filled out some forms with made-up information hoping that it would look close enough to the real thing that she could get paid despite not correctly doing what she had been paid to do.

It seems pretty straightforward to me.
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Old 10th March 2020, 06:02 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
For starters, in the U.S. elections are conducted at the state, county and municipal level. There is no national election authority. Some states give people the option of registering to vote when they obtain or renew a driver license, but it's nowhere close to universal.

Sure, but how hard would it be to set up a system in which the Federal Government simply shares a database of taxpayers/citizens information with each state? The states would still be the ones using the information to run the elections.

And as this is an optional, opt-in feature, there's no concern with sharing personal information. If you're worried about what "THEY" will do with this database, you just don't check the box.



Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Which goes back to my original question: How exactly is this supposed to help the GOP? Even if we assume that's what she was trying to do (a reasonable assumption), how was it supposed to work?

I think the problem here is that you're forgetting that what seems "rational" to a stupid person is significantly different from what seems rational to a normal, or smart, person.

Indeed, there are probably millions of videos on line showing people doing obviously stupid and dangerous things, that make you think "What were they thinking?!?" when you see them.
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Old 10th March 2020, 07:24 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Someone cheated on their homework.

She wanted to be paid for work she didn't do, so she filled out some forms with made-up information hoping that it would look close enough to the real thing that she could get paid despite not correctly doing what she had been paid to do.

It seems pretty straightforward to me.
It was pretty targeted for her to just be randomly changing the forms. There isn't any evidence she changed anything on the Republican side. You may be completely right, but this seems like more effort to me. She put up for a $20k bond.
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Old 10th March 2020, 07:31 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
I think the problem here is that you're forgetting that what seems "rational" to a stupid person is significantly different from what seems rational to a normal, or smart, person.
I'm not forgetting that at all. I'm curious what the rationalization might be. More than one person in this thread has tried rationalizing her actions, so it's definitely possible. Are any of those rationalizations being put forth as the likely motivation for her to do what she did? (Actually, yes.)

Quote:
Indeed, there are probably millions of videos on line showing people doing obviously stupid and dangerous things, that make you think "What were they thinking?!?" when you see them.
Yes. And so here I am, asking "what were they thinking?!?"
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