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Tags Coronavirus

View Poll Results: Who do you blame?
Trump. He should have at least done a PSA encouraging people to get vaccinated. 42 37.84%
Right wing media for almost embracing an anti-vax sentiment 67 60.36%
Republican Governors particularly Desantis and Abbott 50 45.05%
Internet know it alls that don't actually. 30 27.03%
The Republican party for trying to be as crazy as Trump. 52 46.85%
Joe Biden for not being persuasive enough 3 2.70%
The Democrats because shouldn't we blame them? 3 2.70%
The public for being just too stupid. 59 53.15%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 111. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 14th August 2021, 09:15 AM   #1
acbytesla
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Who do you blame for the new surge of COVID?

It looks like the country is heading towards a massive increase in COVID illnesses and deaths.

Who do you blame and why?
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Old 14th August 2021, 09:21 AM   #2
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Evolution.
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Old 14th August 2021, 09:54 AM   #3
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Whoever invented viruses. What a stupid idea.
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Old 14th August 2021, 10:09 AM   #4
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Bats! Dingbats!
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Old 14th August 2021, 10:09 AM   #5
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People of all walks of life carry the blame.

The agencies worldwide had a plan to contain spread and somewhat control the losses eventually. People just wouldn't do it for several billion personal reasons.

It was a case of high levels of compliance would be required, everywhere at the same time or we would fall back to what we have now.

The percentage of folks worldwide that were truly compliant is a small. Most slipped a bit here and there eventually. Some never got on board.
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Old 14th August 2021, 11:03 AM   #6
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I blame mostly the Republicans and their media allies like FOX who helped spread distrust of the vaccines which helped the anti-vaxxers, who spread misinformation of the severity of the disease, anti-science rhetoric regarding the use of masks and social distancing, and putting their own political agendas and re-elections over the good of the country.
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Old 14th August 2021, 11:35 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
It looks like the country is heading towards a massive increase in COVID illnesses and deaths.

Who do you blame and why?
I blame human genetics.

Originally Posted by shemp View Post
Whoever invented viruses. What a stupid idea.
Not to the buyers, it wasn't!
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Old 14th August 2021, 11:44 AM   #8
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It's the stupid populace. If you're stupid enough to believe CTs, biased media or politicians, and reject advice from actual medical sources, then go ahead and do the stupid thing, you're at fault. Yeah, there's a crap ton of blame to go around. But in the 21st century there should be no good reason for any adult to not understand the basics of viruses and that the experts and doctors will be more likely to steer you right.

Just as a People gets the government it deserves, so too does it get the disease it deserves. If personal freedoms are deemed sacrosanct, to the point of an unwillingness of the government to enforce the right course, then the result is what is deemed tolerable. Deserved.
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Old 14th August 2021, 11:48 AM   #9
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Personally, I blame people like this guy.

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Old 14th August 2021, 01:15 PM   #10
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I just saw the perfect example of science ignorance from an anti-mask protestor in Cobb County, GA. She said that masks are 'dangerous' because "the germs they're just having to breathe in day in and day out from the masks, to me, is more harmful than the mask, ya know, not having the mask."

How do you counter such stupidity? It's not like she can't look up the actual science of how masks work for herself. It's just not that hard to educate yourself if you want to.

ETA: Another anti-masker in KY claimed "Kids don't need to breathe carbon dioxide all day long".

I wonder how he think doctors and nurses who wear masks during hours long surgeries don't pass out from breathing in carbon dioxide all that time? Logic is not these people's strong point.

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Old 14th August 2021, 01:50 PM   #11
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With the proviso that I think you are referring to the new surge IN THE USA, Trump and only Trump. His very first pronouncement on it was "It's their new hoax". That set the tone for his presidency and the Republican Party.
Had he taken it seriously instead of constantly trying to minimize (because he thought it made him look bad), we'd be in a far better place.
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Old 14th August 2021, 02:28 PM   #12
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Well, let's see.

Quote:
California Bill Would Limit Protests at Vaccination Sites by Rachel Bluth

State Senator Richard Pan (D-Sacramento), a pediatrician who administers
vaccines to his patients, wrote the bill. He has been the target of anti-vaccination
harassment since writing and championing laws that made it harder for parents
to refuse routine vaccines for their children by eliminating personal belief
exemptions and tightening rules around medical ones. He was shoved by
someone who opposed the medical exemption bill in 2019, the same year
in which an anti-vaccine protester threw menstrual blood onto the state
Senate floor.

Last month, Pan volunteered at a vaccination clinic at a Sacramento park that
he said was disrupted by anti-vaccine protesters with a bullhorn who made it
hard for medical personnel to converse with patients and answer their questions.
And while he said he can handle threats, ordinary citizens “shouldn’t have to run
a gauntlet to get vaccinated.” That includes walking through a group likely made
up of unvaccinated protesters and possibly getting exposed to covid to get
protected, he said.

Okay, some blame here.

Obviously anti-vaccine protesters top the list. Although, why would they adopt
the exact same tactics and anti-abortion and anti-science protestors puzzles me.


Quote:
Biden Administration Warns Of Threat From Anti-Lockdown Extremists

The US Department of Homeland Security (DHS) issued a terror warning that
appears to put Americans pushing back against Covid-19 restrictions on par
with jihadists who might strike on the anniversary of the September 11 attacks.
A DHS bulletin published on Friday said that “anti-government, anti-authority
violent extremists” may try to “exploit the emergence of Covid-19 variants by
viewing the potential re-establishment of public health restrictions across the
US as a rationale to conduct attacks.”

The Covid-19 pandemic has stoked “societal strains and tensions,” the DHS
said, “driving several plots by domestic violent extremists, and they may
contribute to more violence this year.” The terrorism warning, which runs
through November 11, cited a host of other potential threats, including
violent bigots who may perpetrate mass-casualty attacks, “though there
are currently no credible or imminent threats identified.”

The majority of the blames goes to these anti-government folks
and the politicians who capitulate to them.
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Old 14th August 2021, 02:50 PM   #13
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Killary.
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Old 14th August 2021, 02:56 PM   #14
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Where's the option for the Delta variant?
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Old 14th August 2021, 03:04 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I blame mostly the Republicans and their media allies like FOX who helped spread distrust of the vaccines which helped the anti-vaxxers, who spread misinformation of the severity of the disease, anti-science rhetoric regarding the use of masks and social distancing, and putting their own political agendas and re-elections over the good of the country.
Take a guess what demographic has the lowest vaccination rate.

Go on, I'll wait.
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Old 14th August 2021, 03:07 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Take a guess what demographic has the lowest vaccination rate.

Go on, I'll wait.
Children under 12.
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Old 14th August 2021, 04:02 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by sphenisc View Post
Children under 12.
Interesting answer.

There was over the past weeks an interesting tactic. For the last three or four weeks every weekend is a come on demand walk in and get vaccinated dealy.. It has been surprisingly successful. Not only are people just turning up, kids are dragging their parents along to get it.

I was a bit surprised. And pleased.

ETA: Disclosure, I have been fully vaxxed. The vaccine obviously killed me and my funeral was two months ago, right?
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Old 14th August 2021, 04:24 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I blame mostly the Republicans and their media allies like FOX who helped spread distrust of the vaccines which helped the anti-vaxxers, who spread misinformation of the severity of the disease, anti-science rhetoric regarding the use of masks and social distancing, and putting their own political agendas and re-elections over the good of the country.
This ^ probably deserves the most blame currently.

Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
...
I wonder how he think doctors and nurses who wear masks during hours long surgeries don't pass out from breathing in carbon dioxide all that time? Logic is not these people's strong point.
We need to emphasize this a bit more. Also, kids on chemo and those who have had recent bone marrow transplants who get to go out wear masks without any problem. I'd love to see a public service announcement that included kids with bald heads (chemo, etc) wearing masks telling the anti-maskers they can breath just fine.


I might also consider blaming the hubris of some researchers who believed they could manage PPPs (potentially pandemic pathogens) without a problem. And I know there hasn't been a clear smoking gun yet, there was this the other day:

Senior Chinese scientist acquired SARS-CoV-2 in lab infection accident, virologist says

It was in an email exchange released with a FOI request.

Note this is not about the origin and that debate belongs in the other thread. But this is an example of just how impossible it is to contain these dangerous PPPs. So the hubris of researchers deserves some of the blame whether this was the origin of this pandemic or not.

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Old 14th August 2021, 04:33 PM   #19
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Take a guess what demographic has the lowest vaccination rate.

Go on, I'll wait.
I suspect I know where you want this to go.

Guess why Black and Hispanic people are more reticent as demographics to have gotten a vaccine...especially in the beginning.
The last paragraph contains a clue. Go on, I'll wait.

Quote:
While White adults account for the largest share (57%) of unvaccinated adults, Black and Hispanic people remain less likely than their White counterparts to have received a vaccine, leaving them at increased risk, particularly as the variant spreads.

The CDC reports demographic characteristics, including race/ethnicity, of people receiving COVID-19 vaccinations at the national level. As of August 2, 2021, CDC reported that race/ethnicity was known for 58% of people who had received at least one dose of the vaccine. Among this group, nearly two thirds were White (59%), 10% were Black, 16% were Hispanic, 6% were Asian, 1% were American Indian or Alaska Native, and <1% were Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander, while 8% reported multiple or other race. However, CDC data also show that recent vaccinations are reaching larger shares of Hispanic, Asian, and Black populations compared to overall vaccinations. Twenty-six percent of vaccines administered in the past 14 days have gone to Hispanic people, 4% to Asian people, and 15% to Black people (Figure 1). These recent patterns suggest a narrowing of racial gaps in vaccinations at the national level, particularly for Hispanic and Black people, who account for a larger share of recent vaccinations compared to their share of the total population (26% vs. 17% and 15% vs. 12%,respectively). While these data provide helpful insights at a national level, to date, CDC is not publicly reporting state-level data on the racial/ethnic composition of people vaccinated.
Quote:
As observed in prior weeks, Black and Hispanic people have received smaller shares of vaccinations compared to their shares of cases and compared to their shares of the total population in most states. The share of vaccinations received by Black people also continues to be smaller than their share of deaths in most states, although in some states it is similar to the share of deaths. The share of vaccinations received by Hispanic people is similar to or higher than their share of deaths in most reporting states, although in some states it continues to be lower. For example, in California, 30% of vaccinations have gone to Hispanic people, while they account for 63% of cases, 48% of deaths, and 40% of the total population in the state. Similarly, in the District of Columbia, Black people have received 43% of vaccinations, while they make up 56% of cases, 71% of deaths, and 46% of the total population. The size of these differences varies across states. The number of states where the shares of vaccinations received by Black and Hispanic people are more proportionate to their shares of the total population and/or their shares of cases or deaths in the state has grown over time.
Quote:
Between March 1 and August 2, the share of vaccinations going to Hispanic people increased in all states reporting data for both periods and increased for Black people in most reporting states. In a few cases, these increases were large. For example, the share of vaccinations going to Black people increased from 26% to 43% in DC and from 25% to 38% in Mississippi. Similarly, the share of vaccinations going to Hispanic people increased by at least 10 percentage points in six states, including Florida (17% to 31%), Nevada (13% to 26%), California (19% to 30%), New Jersey (6% to 17%), Texas (23% to 35%), and New York (9% to 19%). The share of vaccinations going to Asian people also increased in most states reporting data for both periods, while it fell for White people in most reporting states. The share going to White people declined by 10 percentage points or more in 14 states (Arizona, Florida, Nevada, Alabama, Georgia, New Jersey, Tennessee, Virginia, Mississippi, Texas, Maine, Illinois, Colorado, and New York).
Quote:
Overall efforts to increase vaccinations may help to reduce racial disparities in vaccination rates, as Black and Hispanic adults make up a larger share (40%) of unvaccinated adults who are open to getting a vaccine (those who want to “wait and see” how the vaccine is working for others) compared to their share of unvaccinated who say they will “definitely not” get the vaccine (26%). In contrast, those who say they will “definitely not” get a COVID-19 vaccine are overwhelmingly White adults—65% of the group compared to 50% of the “wait and see” group.
https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covi...ace-ethnicity/
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Old 14th August 2021, 04:35 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Take a guess what demographic has the lowest vaccination rate.

Go on, I'll wait.
The unvaccinated.
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Old 14th August 2021, 04:41 PM   #21
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I blame Biden for shipping 40-80 thousand Covid-infected illegals all over the country out of a total of over 200,000 illegals that came across the southern border just in July. Biden is the worst president in history already and he has much, much more damage to do as evidenced by the carnage and stupidity he inflicted on Afghanistan and the rampant inflation that is making everyone poorer by the day. Even fake news The Hill and CNN are calling him out on Afghanistan.
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Old 14th August 2021, 04:50 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
I blame Biden for shipping 40-80 thousand Covid-infected illegals all over the country out of a total of over 200,000 illegals that came across the southern border just in July. Biden is the worst president in history already and he has much, much more damage to do as evidenced by the carnage and stupidity he inflicted on Afghanistan and the rampant inflation that is making everyone poorer by the day. Even fake news The Hill and CNN are calling him out on Afghanistan.
Oh, dear. Wrong yet again.

Quote:
A Texas sheriff told Fox News host Tucker Carlson on Feb. 9, “it’s absolutely true” that immigrants detained after crossing the border have been released into the U.S. without being tested for COVID-19.

The sheriff, A.J. Louderback, then cited and misrepresented a memo issued by David Pekoske, acting secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, on the first day of President Joe Biden’s term.

That exchange was highlighted in a story on a conservative website, The Political Insider, with the headline: “Texas Sheriff Claims Biden Admin Releasing Illegal Immigrants Into U.S. Without COVID Testing.”

It’s true that Louderback made the claim — but the claim itself is false.
https://www.factcheck.org/2021/02/bi...at-the-border/
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Old 14th August 2021, 04:51 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
I blame Biden for shipping 40-80 thousand Covid-infected illegals all over the country out of a total of over 200,000 illegals that came across the southern border just in July. Biden is the worst president in history already and he has much, much more damage to do as evidenced by the carnage and stupidity he inflicted on Afghanistan and the rampant inflation that is making everyone poorer by the day. Even fake news The Hill and CNN are calling him out on Afghanistan.
I would say you pulled those figures out of your ass.

Interesting, you bring up Afghanistan as Trump had already ordered the withdrawal.

But hey we wouldn't think poorly of Der Fuhrer.
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Old 14th August 2021, 04:59 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I would say you pulled those figures out of your ass.

Interesting, you bring up Afghanistan as Trump had already ordered the withdrawal.

But hey we wouldn't think poorly of Der Fuhrer.
Trump wanted to order all troops out immediately:

Quote:
According to Axios, the outgoing president set off a panic by signing a bizarre memo a week after his election defeat that demanded an abrupt troop withdrawal from Afghanistan. The memo was reportedly signed by the president without the knowledge of White House Counsel Pat Cipollone, National Security Adviser Robert O'Brien, or the office of the staff secretary, which manages the paper flow to and from the president’s desk. Axios described the memo as “an off-the-books operation by the commander in chief himself” to withdraw troops before Biden’s inauguration. Ultimately, Trump was talked down from the plan after being warned by Pentagon officials that it could allow the Taliban to take Kabul in the dying days of his presidency. In April, Biden announced the withdrawal of all U.S. troops from Afghanistan by Sept. 11.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-...on-says-report
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Old 14th August 2021, 06:52 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I suspect I know where you want this to go.
And you still can’t put 2 and 2 together. You make excuses for why they aren’t vaccinated, but the virus doesn’t care why. To the extent that vaccine hesitancy is contributing to the current surge, blaming it all on Republicans or Fox News may be comforting, but it isn’t really true.
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Old 14th August 2021, 07:12 PM   #26
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
And you still can’t put 2 and 2 together. You make excuses for why they aren’t vaccinated, but the virus doesn’t care why. To the extent that vaccine hesitancy is contributing to the current surge, blaming it all on Republicans or Fox News may be comforting, but it isn’t really true.
"Excuses" and "reasons" are two different things. That you use "excuse" reveals exactly what I suspected: you want to blame Black people themselves for their vaccine hesitancy. Not surprising. Because they have no reason to distrust the government, right?

You sound just like this guy from the conservative Washington Examiner:

Quote:
The New York Times piece details the reasons several black New Yorkers have for declining to get vaccinated, most of which have to do with distrust in the government. It even quotes a local Black Lives Matter leader who, upon finding out that politicians were prioritizing minority neighborhoods for vaccinations, dismissively asked, “Since when does America give anything good to black people first?”

This question is not exactly surprising. The narrative of institutional racism has been pushed on the Left for years, particularly in higher education. That narrative intensified in June 2020, becoming the popular position among establishment media, the entertainment industry, and the Democratic Party. Over one year removed from the death of George Floyd, this liberal racial obsession has infected every aspect of public life.
Interesting use of the words "pushed" and "infected" and the popular right wing accusations of higher education, the media, entertainment industry being the problem.

Quote:
It is only natural, then, that telling black people that the system is still racist would foster a distrustful attitude toward the government when it comes to vaccines. After all, why would you trust a government you have been told is racist to its core about anything, much less your own health and well-being?
Oh, my....telling them that the system is racist is what did it, huh? They didn't feel that way BEFORE from their own centuries of experience! How totally patronizing of the author. And stupid. But so typical.
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Old 14th August 2021, 07:13 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
And you still can’t put 2 and 2 together. You make excuses for why they aren’t vaccinated, but the virus doesn’t care why. To the extent that vaccine hesitancy is contributing to the current surge, blaming it all on Republicans or Fox News may be comforting, but it isn’t really true.
Might have helped if previous US Governments hadn't felt the need to experiment on Black people without their knowledge or consent.
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Old 14th August 2021, 07:26 PM   #28
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There are a lot of factors in play, but clearly those who are most vocal about anti-prevention measures deserve a share of blame.

People who are anti-mask, anti-social distancing, and anti-vaccine and apparently have literally no alternatives (except for snakeoil/worming tablets) deserve blame.

As far as the Delta variant goes, I expect it would not be as prevalant if it wasn't for higher raes of vaccination, and other mitigation strategies, so blaming Delta seems like a cop-out to me.
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Old 14th August 2021, 07:29 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
... blaming it all on Republicans or Fox News may be comforting, but it isn’t really true.
It's not the least bit comforting and it is demonstrably true, overwhelmingly so.
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Old 14th August 2021, 09:40 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It's not the least bit comforting and it is demonstrably true, overwhelmingly so.
Facing the truth is difficult for some people...so is accepting any responsibility.
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Old 15th August 2021, 03:05 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It's not the least bit comforting and it is demonstrably true, overwhelmingly so.
Of course it’s comforting to blame your opponents for whatever is wrong. You’re lying to me in pretending otherwise, and quite possibly to yourself as well. And it’s not demonstrably true. It’s demonstrably false. I just demonstrated it. The least vaccinated groups aren’t Republicans or Fox viewers.
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Old 15th August 2021, 03:05 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Facing the truth is difficult for some people...so is accepting any responsibility.
Oh, the irony.
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Old 15th August 2021, 03:11 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Might have helped if previous US Governments hadn't felt the need to experiment on Black people without their knowledge or consent.
That may well be a contributing factor. But that’s not exactly Fox News’ fault, nor are Democrats any less blameless for that historical injustice than Republicans.
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Old 15th August 2021, 03:34 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Might have helped if previous US Governments hadn't felt the need to experiment on Black people without their knowledge or consent.
It may also help if people stop excusing ignorance. Just saying.
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Old 15th August 2021, 07:08 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Take a guess what demographic has the lowest vaccination rate.

Go on, I'll wait.
Trump voters.
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Old 15th August 2021, 07:32 AM   #36
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Political figures do not guide your thinking. They echo it. Bad decisions are always the fault of the decision maker, not popular figureheads.. We are not ******* poodles.
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Old 15th August 2021, 07:54 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Political figures do not guide your thinking. They echo it. Bad decisions are always the fault of the decision maker, not popular figureheads.. We are not ******* poodles.
Except a whole lot of people are effectively "poodles" who are easily manipulated. Yes, each individual is ultimately responsible for their decisions. But at a societal level, when a leader advocates irresponsible behavior (the impacts of which are easily predictable) ​the leader bears responsibility.

"Poodle" doesn't quite capture the vibe of a Trump cultist.
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Old 15th August 2021, 08:22 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post

It looks like the right answer.

You can divide the population into different demographic groups.

By sex: Female 71%, Male 63%
By age: 18-29 57%, 30-49 58%, 50-64 73%, 65+ 85%
By race: White 70%, Black 65%, Hispanic 61%
By education: College 81%, Noncollege 61%
By politics: Democrats 86%, Independents 63%, Republicans 54%

Could it be by religion?

I caption the following photo, "There's a little bit of Satan in every jab."
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Old 15th August 2021, 08:27 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Except a whole lot of people are effectively "poodles" who are easily manipulated. Yes, each individual is ultimately responsible for their decisions. But at a societal level, when a leader advocates irresponsible behavior (the impacts of which are easily predictable) ​the leader bears responsibility.

"Poodle" doesn't quite capture the vibe of a Trump cultist.
To support Thermal's proposition, it's the fools in the populace who elected the leader to misguide them. So it still comes down to the people as a mass. Which is why I keep annoying folk when I contend that a People gets the government it deserves.

If it's impossible to educate and socialize a populace of history-aware critical thinkers of sufficient number to serve as a bulwark against the kind of mass insanity that would bring to power a Trump, then that society is in trouble. Even widespread disaffection that leads to the nihilistic desire to burn it all down is no excuse, for history tells us where that leads.
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Old 15th August 2021, 08:27 AM   #40
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I think if people were honest about it, both parties hold some blame.
Before the election dems were openly saying they wouldn't trust a "Trump vaccine", as if the orange turd was boiling up a batch in a vat behind the White House personally.
Then after the election you get the uber-nutty right going full CT, and crickets from anyone in right wing media to quell that nonsense.
So here we are, right smack in the middle of, Anti-Vax part II: the Pandemic.
I've been spending a lot of time lately reminding anyone who is openly terrified of the Covid vaccine, who, exactly the Bastard Wakefield is, and the damage he's done to the miracle of modern medicine with the anti-vax movement his lies started.
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