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Old 31st August 2021, 09:53 PM   #281
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
so you are going to focus on the small minority instead of the overwhelming majority of posters?
seems like you already decided what the answer would be before you posted the question.
At this point, I would just be happy if more people gave a straight answer instead of telling me why they can't, before they then drop into a rant about Trump.
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Old 31st August 2021, 09:56 PM   #282
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
At this point, I would just be happy if more people gave a straight answer instead of telling me why they can't, before they then drop into a rant about Trump.
some people did - but you are focusing on those who didn't.
A pollster would conclude that the question is flawed.
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Old 31st August 2021, 09:59 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
some people did - but you are focusing on those who didn't.
A pollster would conclude that the question is flawed.
I've taken note of those who did, but invariably some very loud voices continue to tap-dance around the subject.

It isn't the question that is flawed, and it isn't complex. It is just very uncomfortable for some to answer in a direct manner.
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Old 31st August 2021, 10:08 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I've taken note of those who did, but invariably some very loud voices continue to tap-dance around the subject.

It isn't the question that is flawed, and it isn't complex. It is just very uncomfortable for some to answer in a direct manner.
wrong crowd.
what you are seeing is the result of not having a Planet X option.
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Old 31st August 2021, 10:17 PM   #285
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
wrong crowd.
what you are seeing is the result of not having a Planet X option.
I don't think that is the case, whatsoever.

It's the result of some people not being capable of even the thinnest support for Trump, no matter what the cost.
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Old 31st August 2021, 10:18 PM   #286
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If you want some clear results, make an actual Poll - the Forum makes that easy.

What you seem to want is to confirm your opinion.
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Old 31st August 2021, 10:20 PM   #287
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
If you want some clear results, make an actual Poll - the Forum makes that easy.

What you seem to want is to confirm your opinion.
It is a confirmation of my opinion, for certain.

If I made a poll, it wouldn't change anything. People would respond in the thread, and refuse the poll options.
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Old 31st August 2021, 10:27 PM   #288
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
It is a confirmation of my opinion, for certain.

If I made a poll, it wouldn't change anything. People would respond in the thread, and refuse the poll options.
yep, better not look for more data, lest it contradicts my firmly held believes.
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Old 31st August 2021, 10:29 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
yep, better not look for more data, lest it contradicts my firmly held believes.
I found the data, right in this thread. It is not my fault that it confirmed my suspicions.
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Old 31st August 2021, 10:45 PM   #290
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what data did you expect from a "would you rather vote for Trump or have a loved one die?" question?
It's by design offensive, so people are offended by it.

but that was the goal, wasn't it?
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Old 31st August 2021, 10:48 PM   #291
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You puposefully contrive and frame a question that will only confirm your prejudiced assumptions and then when it is pointed out to you, crow about how the data (I am using the term very loosely) confirms your assumptions biases. No, what you have is flawed data because it is based on a flawed original premise.
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Old 31st August 2021, 10:50 PM   #292
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Thank goodness I don't have to pay for all these tap shoes.
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Old 31st August 2021, 10:51 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Thank goodness I don't have to pay for all these tap shoes.
...and that response is supposed to mean something?
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Old 31st August 2021, 10:53 PM   #294
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Your original question was essentially designed so you could point to responders and say..."see, you suffer Trump Derangement Syndrome," or some other rightwing projectionist crap. You were caught out on it and just decided to dig in...
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Old 31st August 2021, 10:54 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
If you want some clear results, make an actual Poll - the Forum makes that easy.

What you seem to want is to confirm your opinion.
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Old 31st August 2021, 10:59 PM   #296
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
Your original question was essentially designed so you could point to responders and say..."see, you suffer Trump Derangement Syndrome," or some other rightwing projectionist crap. You were caught out on it and just decided to dig in...
Well, based upon the results...
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Old 31st August 2021, 11:01 PM   #297
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
...and that response is supposed to mean something?
For someone who complains constantly about people tap dancing around/avoiding answering his question (in the manner he demands), his usual go to is a predictable avoidance quip whenever he's challenged.

ETA: And his cocktail formula adds a hefty dose of self-righteous smugness.

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Old 31st August 2021, 11:13 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Well, based upon the results...
Well as I said...hating Trump is a perfectly valid political stance. And his mis-management of COVID is basically only one of a large number of other things that he utterly ****** up. He managed to coast along because his policies benefited a small coterie and also he enabled and validated right wing bigots. Even beforen he saw every crisis primarily as a photo op and did little if anything to actually handle it. Many of the more sensible saw Trump for what he really was...an incompetent selfish windbag even before COVID hit. So it is perfectly valid for the more intelligent to not want him to continue despite the fact that COVID never happened.
The only sad thing here is that, ultimately it was the mishandling of the COVID pandemic that majorly contributed to his election loss. In a more perfect and less selfish world...the two impeachments should have been enough. And before you pounce on that, NO, HE WAS NOT CLEARED OF THE CHARGES...but the majority Repugnicans decided not to prosecute someone who was essentially one of their own.
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Old 31st August 2021, 11:15 PM   #299
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
Well as I said...hating Trump is a perfectly valid political stance. And his mis-management of COVID is basically only one of a large number of other things that he utterly ****** up. He managed to coast along because his policies benefited a small coterie and also he enabled and validated right wing bigots. Even beforen he saw every crisis primarily as a photo op and did little if anything to actually handle it. Many of the more sensible saw Trump for what he really was...an incompetent selfish windbag even before COVID hit. So it is perfectly valid for the more intelligent to not want him to continue despite the fact that COVID never happened.
The only sad thing here is that, ultimately it was the mishandling of the COVID pandemic that majorly contributed to his election loss. In a more perfect and less selfish world...the two impeachments should have been enough. And before you pounce on that, NO, HE WAS NOT CLEARED OF THE CHARGES...but the majority Repugnicans decided not to prosecute someone who was essentially one of their own.
I forget, did you answer the initial question posed? I know you may not be a Democrat, but still, you got anything besides a Trump rant? There are plenty of other threads for that.
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Old 31st August 2021, 11:20 PM   #300
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Read my first line. It gives a much clearer answer to your initial question than any of the (in your mind) "witty" repartee that you have posted in this thread. Also forget being a democrat...I am not even American and have visited America for a very short while on work only once.
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Old 31st August 2021, 11:23 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
Read my first line. It gives a much clearer answer to your initial question than any of the (in your mind) "witty" repartee that you have posted in this thread. Also forget being a democrat...I am not even American and have visited America for a very short while on work only once.
That isn't an answer to the question of the OP, and the rest is just a Trump rant.
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Old 31st August 2021, 11:37 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
That isn't an answer to the question of the OP, and the rest is just a Trump rant.
If that is what you think...you need to re-evaluate your cognitive capabilities.
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Old 31st August 2021, 11:42 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
If that is what you think...you need to re-evaluate your cognitive capabilities.
See what I mean?
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Old 31st August 2021, 11:44 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Which would you choose, the current Covid death toll (and a Dem in charge), or a country without the virus, and Trump still ruling?
Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
Well as I said...hating Trump is a perfectly valid political stance. And his mis-management of COVID is basically only one of a large number of other things that he utterly ****** up. He managed to coast along because his policies benefited a small coterie and also he enabled and validated right wing bigots. Even beforen he saw every crisis primarily as a photo op and did little if anything to actually handle it. Many of the more sensible saw Trump for what he really was...an incompetent selfish windbag even before COVID hit. So it is perfectly valid for the more intelligent to not want him to continue despite the fact that COVID never happened.

The only sad thing here is that, ultimately it was the mishandling of the COVID pandemic that majorly contributed to his election loss. In a more perfect and less selfish world...the two impeachments should have been enough. And before you pounce on that, NO, HE WAS NOT CLEARED OF THE CHARGES...but the majority Repugnicans decided not to prosecute someone who was essentially one of their own.
Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
Read my first line. It gives a much clearer answer to your initial question than any of the (in your mind) "witty" repartee that you have posted in this thread.
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
That isn't an answer to the question of the OP, and the rest is just a Trump rant.
Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
If that is what you think...you need to re-evaluate your cognitive capabilities.
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Old 1st September 2021, 06:04 AM   #305
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I don't think that is the case, whatsoever.

It's the result of some people not being capable of even the thinnest support for Trump, no matter what the cost.
We had to get rid of Trump to save ourselves from COVID-19. That's not the same as embracing COVID-19. No one wanted COVID-19.

While the stupid **** was failing and his duties to protect the nation in a crisis, why shouldn't he be called to account for his failures during the campaign?

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Old 1st September 2021, 06:09 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
I had to look up some of those terms. Widely used by 'Incels', I bet.
You are correct.
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Old 1st September 2021, 06:38 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
We had to get rid of Trump to save ourselves from COVID-19. That's not the same as embracing COVID-19. No one wanted COVID-19.

While the stupid **** was failing and his duties to protect the nation in a crisis, why shouldn't he be called to account for his failures during the campaign?
You are not playing the game by his rules. The only acceptable answer is yes, and then he will point at you and say you have Trump Derangement Syndrome
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Old 1st September 2021, 06:40 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
You are not playing the game by his rules. The only acceptable answer is yes, and then he will point at you and say you have Trump Derangement Syndrome
I don't really do hypotheticals. I prefer to deal with the world as I find it. That's complicated enough.
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Old 1st September 2021, 06:48 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I don't really do hypotheticals. I prefer to deal with the world as I find it. That's complicated enough.
Which is as it should be.
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Old 1st September 2021, 07:00 AM   #310
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Again, the OP question is "how much do you really hate Trump? Would you trade another term of him for no COVID?"

Anyone answering with anything but a "**** yeah" needs to do some serious soul searching. Especially those who bobbed and weaved around the question. Your answer was heard more clearly than you think.
**** yeah, I would rather have Trump than covid. I would also rather have covid than fascism installed.

I don't know whether Trump's habit of riling people toward wanting fascism is being accounted for in OP's hypothetical. I also kind of doubt that OP would even agree with me about Trump doing that. So I felt that I needed to comment further, and I'm sorry if you see my intended nuance as hedging. The hypothetical presented is ridiculous, anyway, and maybe I should have just said that. But I was trying to respond in good faith.

Let me explain - The OP post seems to assume that most people's problem with Trump is just a problem with "the other team," when it clearly isn't. He is a dangerous authoritarian, and that is why I (and many, many others) hate him. Allegiance isn't really a thing when one is more focused on actual policy.

Lest I be accused of "both sides bad, enlightened centrism," though, I will conclusively say that the right is WORSE. Far, far worse. Will always be worse at this point. They are worse because they have welcomed racism, misogyny, and anti-science into the actual bases of their policy positions. Far from modernizing alongside science, they have doubled down. They have openly embraced outright lies and anti-democratic fervor. It wasn't just one awful guy; they all happily followed his lead. They will never be redeemed in my eyes, neither the representatives nor their constituents. But my eyes don't matter to many people.

US lefties, on the other hand, are annoying, and a lot of them are anti free speech now. They also tend to have unrealistic, utopian ideals on which they want to base new policies, immediately, without delay. I don't like any of those things. I will take them over the other option any day, and we generally have more principles in common than not, but I am so tired overall. You just have no idea how tired I am. (Well, a lot of you probably do.)

We are destroying ourselves, and it's like no one truly cares. The appetite for tribalism and picking everything to death is just insatiable in this culture, and I'm so sick of it, I'm almost - almost - ready to move permanently into the bunker.
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Old 1st September 2021, 07:02 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by Butter! View Post
We are destroying ourselves, and it's like no one truly cares.
That's not true. About ~40% of us are actively enjoying it and voting to make it worse every chance they get.
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Old 1st September 2021, 07:12 AM   #312
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
That's not true. About ~40% of us are actively enjoying it and voting to make it worse every chance they get.
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Old 1st September 2021, 07:25 AM   #313
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
VOTER FRAUD! VOTER FRAUD! HE STOLE MY VOTE!

I can see you're anti-democracy and want to overthrow our democratic institution of one person-one vote! But we all knew that.
Unless they're slaves, women, brown, convicts, poor et cetera.
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Old 1st September 2021, 07:40 AM   #314
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
No it wasn't.
It was hateful sexist misogyny. Men with so little confidence in their own sexuality that they have to make demeaning comments about women.

That was its context.
I'm reminded of some of the men in Kinky Daters confronted with a woman who prefers to play top. At least within the BDSM community there is some filtering.
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
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Old 1st September 2021, 08:06 AM   #315
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Most women consider "split-tail" to be a compliment, trust me. You just need to get them in the right mindset to admit it.
We're you putting dollar bills in their G-string at the time?
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Old 1st September 2021, 08:35 AM   #316
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Responding to this mod box in thread will be off topic Posted By:Agatha
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Old 1st September 2021, 08:42 AM   #317
varwoche
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
Well as I said...hating Trump is a perfectly valid political stance. And his mis-management of COVID is basically only one of a large number of other things that he utterly ****** up. He managed to coast along because his policies benefited a small coterie and also he enabled and validated right wing bigots. Even beforen he saw every crisis primarily as a photo op and did little if anything to actually handle it. Many of the more sensible saw Trump for what he really was...an incompetent selfish windbag even before COVID hit. So it is perfectly valid for the more intelligent to not want him to continue despite the fact that COVID never happened.
The only sad thing here is that, ultimately it was the mishandling of the COVID pandemic that majorly contributed to his election loss. In a more perfect and less selfish world...the two impeachments should have been enough. And before you pounce on that, NO, HE WAS NOT CLEARED OF THE CHARGES...but the majority Repugnicans decided not to prosecute someone who was essentially one of their own.
Indeed. There has never been a POTUS...
  • who tried to overturn democracy
  • who loved authoritarian thugs
  • (in modern times) openly spewing racism
  • who is a runaway megalomaniac at a cartoon level
  • who urged followers to attack peaceful protesters
  • who urged followers to attack reporters
  • so spectacularly ignorant
  • who was such a brazen grifter
  • who threatened a whistle-blower with death
  • who was a pathological liar
I could go on at length.

Anyone who isn't named Rip Van Winkle who doesn't disdain Trump is solidly in the basket of deplorables so far as I'm concerned.

Much less the useful idiots who actively carry his water.
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Last edited by varwoche; 1st September 2021 at 08:43 AM.
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Old 1st September 2021, 09:14 AM   #318
sphenisc
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I don't really do hypotheticals. I prefer to deal with the world as I find it. That's complicated enough.
Would you do hypotheticals if the world was simpler?
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Old 1st September 2021, 09:28 AM   #319
Thermal
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Originally Posted by sphenisc View Post
Would you do hypotheticals if the world was simpler?
Hypothetically?
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Old 1st September 2021, 10:07 AM   #320
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It is a hypothetical situation, but one that is silly. It requires that Trump undergo some unprecedented apotheosis. Sure, if he were someone else, and suddenly went from stupidity and harmful hatred to benign beneficence, perhaps I'd listen to what he had to say. But he never was, is not now, and never will be.
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