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Tags neil degrasse tyson , sexual misconduct charges

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Old 2nd December 2018, 07:39 AM   #1
applecorped
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Three women accuse Neil deGrasse Tyson of sexual misconduct

https://www-m.cnn.com/2018/12/02/us/...os-allegations


(CNN) — Astrophysicist and author Neil deGrasse Tyson has denied allegations of sexual misconduct made against him by three women.
Last month, three women told Patheos, a religion and spirituality website, that Tyson harassed them and made inappropriate sexual advances as early as 1984 and in recent years.
"Accusations can damage a reputation and a marriage. Sometimes irreversibly. I see myself as loving husband and as a public servant -- a scientist and educator who serves at the will of the public. I am grateful for the support I've received from those who continue to respect and value me and my work," he wrote in a lengthy Facebook post titled "On Being Accused."
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Old 2nd December 2018, 07:48 AM   #2
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...1984...

How old was NDT then?

Story not opening on my browser, but the Pluto tattoo seems pretty innocent considering his position on the TNO/dwarf.
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Old 2nd December 2018, 08:47 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
...1984...

How old was NDT then?

Story not opening on my browser, but the Pluto tattoo seems pretty innocent considering his position on the TNO/dwarf.
I bet he regrets downgrading Pluto now!

ETA: then again searching for Haumea, Maki Maki and others could have got him into even more trouble.
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Old 2nd December 2018, 09:08 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
...1984...

How old was NDT then?
25-26.

The latest allegations have been discussed in the thread Sexual misconduct allegations against Radford, Shermer, et al. Part 2 since Friday, Nov. 30, 2018).
Also the thread Neil DeGrasse Tyson accused of rape from last year.
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Old 2nd December 2018, 09:45 AM   #5
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A longer account:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/scien...?noredirect=on

And Tyson's detailed response:
https://www.facebook.com/notes/neil-...6870826326613/
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Old 2nd December 2018, 10:02 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
25-26.

The latest allegations have been discussed in the thread Sexual misconduct allegations against Radford, Shermer, et al. Part 2 since Friday, Nov. 30, 2018).
Also the thread Neil DeGrasse Tyson accused of rape from last year.
Over thirty years ago..

I hope this doesn't come off as rape apologetics, but I was thinking about how much I can remember clearly from 1984-ish. The answer is not a damn thing. I mean, that's why we have statutes of limitations, right? A guy in their twenties is also doing a lot more than a more mature gentleman who may in fact recall distant events more accurately.

Should people making extremely distant claims be subjected to some sort of externally verifiable memory tests? Fumbling a little here
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Old 2nd December 2018, 10:09 AM   #7
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"I'm covered in tattoos, look at me!"

"How dare you look at me! Rape!"
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Old 2nd December 2018, 11:50 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Over thirty years ago..

I hope this doesn't come off as rape apologetics, but I was thinking about how much I can remember clearly from 1984-ish. The answer is not a damn thing. I mean, that's why we have statutes of limitations, right? A guy in their twenties is also doing a lot more than a more mature gentleman who may in fact recall distant events more accurately.

Should people making extremely distant claims be subjected to some sort of externally verifiable memory tests? Fumbling a little here
The statute of limitations for sexual assault and rape varies by state.

Quote:
Thirty-four states impose limits on when a rape case can be brought forward, ranging from 3 to 30 years after the assault. These statutes of limitations were created to ensure that evidence presented in trial has not deteriorated over time. But some crimes — like murder or sexual abuse of a child — have been deemed too heinous to warrant any limitation. Several states have now extended that same protection to rape and sexual assault, as well.
Doing a little quick work with my fingers reveals that at least 16 states have no statute of limitations on bringing these cases (and the trend is towards removing the statute of limitations).
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Old 2nd December 2018, 03:09 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Doing a little quick work with my fingers...
That's what got old Tyson into trouble. Allegedly.
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Old 2nd December 2018, 03:12 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
....
Should people making extremely distant claims be subjected to some sort of externally verifiable memory tests? Fumbling a little here
I think we can agree that most people would have a strong memory of a traumatic event, and what is traumatic for the victim might not even be significant to the party who caused it, whether it's a violent attack or a traffic accident or getting fired by a callous boss. For example, I believe Dr. Ford is telling the truth about her assault, and I also believe Judge Kavanaugh honestly doesn't remember any of it.

In the particular case of Tyson, he says he was involved in a brief consensual relationship with his accuser.
Quote:
For me, what was most significant, was that in this new life, long after dropping out of astrophysics graduate school, she was posting videos of colored tuning forks endowed with vibrational therapeutic energy that she channels from the orbiting planets. As a scientist, I found this odd. Meanwhile, according to her blog posts, the drug and rape allegation comes from an assumption of what happened to her during a night that she cannot remember. It is as though a false memory had been implanted, which, because it never actually happened, had to be remembered as an evening she doesn’t remember. Nor does she remember waking up the next morning and going to the office.
https://www.facebook.com/notes/neil-...6870826326613/

I suspect that if this is anywhere close to true, the chances of successful prosecution would be zero.
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Old 3rd December 2018, 12:39 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I think we can agree that most people would have a strong memory of a traumatic event, and what is traumatic for the victim might not even be significant to the party who caused it, whether it's a violent attack or a traffic accident or getting fired by a callous boss. For example, I believe Dr. Ford is telling the truth about her assault, and I also believe Judge Kavanaugh honestly doesn't remember any of it.

In the particular case of Tyson, he says he was involved in a brief consensual relationship with his accuser.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/neil-...6870826326613/

I suspect that if this is anywhere close to true, the chances of successful prosecution would be zero.
And just because one has strong memory of something, doesn't mean it is correct memory. (Corruption of information is too easy)
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Old 3rd December 2018, 01:17 AM   #12
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I seem to recall a study on memory-inhibiting drugs concluding that memories are re-encoded (and potentially altered) every time we recollect them. Hrm...need to look that one up.
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Old 3rd December 2018, 05:57 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I think we can agree that most people would have a strong memory of a traumatic event, and what is traumatic for the victim might not even be significant to the party who caused it, whether it's a violent attack or a traffic accident or getting fired by a callous boss. For example, I believe Dr. Ford is telling the truth about her assault, and I also believe Judge Kavanaugh honestly doesn't remember any of it.

In the particular case of Tyson, he says he was involved in a brief consensual relationship with his accuser.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/neil-...6870826326613/

I suspect that if this is anywhere close to true, the chances of successful prosecution would be zero.

Yes it is well established that you retain a strong memory of a traumatic event, but is it an accurate one? People react to trauma in different ways, sometimes even suppressing the memory. And as you mentioned with Justice Kavanagh, the accused may not be able to provide a defense or alibi for a time he does not even recall. Other phenomena, such as implanted, mistaken, or false memory, could show a jury a convincing victim who, after all, believes their own story.
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Old 3rd December 2018, 06:26 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
The statute of limitations for sexual assault and rape varies by state.



Doing a little quick work with my fingers reveals that at least 16 states have no statute of limitations on bringing these cases (and the trend is towards removing the statute of limitations).
But was was it at that place and time? Changes would be ex-post-facto. eh?
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Old 3rd December 2018, 06:29 AM   #15
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For me, what was most significant, was that in this new life, long after dropping out of astrophysics graduate school, she was posting videos of colored tuning forks endowed with vibrational therapeutic energy that she channels from the orbiting planets.....
Never **** crazy.
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Old 3rd December 2018, 12:10 PM   #16
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We need to stay consistent in the way we treat the accused and the accuser. This woman, or women, have every right to be heard as every other accuser. If there is evidence then it should be acknowledged and studied.

As weird as it sounds, I don't "believe" anyone. I will remark that NDT isn't screaming loudly in the mic and blaming conspiracy theories. He's taking the accusations as they come and addressing them.

Either way, NDT shouldn't get off any lighter than anyone else. Just like with Wohl, if this story is ********, they'll figure it out and bring it to light.
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Old 3rd December 2018, 12:53 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Over thirty years ago..

I hope this doesn't come off as rape apologetics, but I was thinking about how much I can remember clearly from 1984-ish. The answer is not a damn thing. I mean, that's why we have statutes of limitations, right? A guy in their twenties is also doing a lot more than a more mature gentleman who may in fact recall distant events more accurately.

Should people making extremely distant claims be subjected to some sort of externally verifiable memory tests? Fumbling a little here

It's not so much a question of faulty memory, I think, and being a woo obviously makes her unreliable if we are talking about cosmology, but we're not. When she ”accused him of telling students they could pass Astronomy 101 if they gave him a blow job,” you would expect others to come forward to back up her claim. Nobody has, apparently.
My guess, based on her own account, is that she made it all up – but not necessarily with ill intent. When I was in college, a student had a mental breakdown and accused a teaching assistant of having impregnated her. This may be a similar story.
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Old 5th December 2018, 03:47 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Over thirty years ago..

I hope this doesn't come off as rape apologetics, but I was thinking about how much I can remember clearly from 1984-ish. The answer is not a damn thing. I mean, that's why we have statutes of limitations, right? A guy in their twenties is also doing a lot more than a more mature gentleman who may in fact recall distant events more accurately.

Should people making extremely distant claims be subjected to some sort of externally verifiable memory tests? Fumbling a little here
I don't know how other people should perceive them but I assume it's bullcrap until evidence is presented. I have been falsely accused of harassment before (and proved it was false), and I'm not even a rich and famous celebrity. It can happen to anyone and it may happen to someone else in this forum one day. I do not wish it on anyone.

In these days of "victimhood", fingerpointing and overly sensitive people in general, I am far from taking anyone at their word on this.

"#Metoo! I'm a victim too, I must be!" is about where I'm at with all this. Show evidence or shut the f up.

The medias reporting of anyone with a claim is, I think, detrimental to the overall #metoo thing and is where a lot of my attitude comes from, not my own personal experience. Troubling times.
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Old 5th December 2018, 04:46 PM   #19
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"Never **** crazy"
But they are always the best ****.
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Old 5th December 2018, 08:36 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by kedo1981 View Post
"Never **** crazy"
But they are always the best ****.
Not actually true. I've had more crazy partners than not, and they were all inferior to the love of a sane partner.

Actually, I take that back. I've had exactly two of each. But the sane ones win the bedroom bingo sweepstakes hands down.
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Old 6th December 2018, 12:16 AM   #21
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Make it four women:

Quote:
Now a fourth woman has told BuzzFeed News her experience of sexual harassment from Tyson. In January 2010, she recalled, she joined her then-boyfriend at a holiday party for employees of the American Museum of Natural History. Tyson, its most famous employee, drunkenly approached her, she said, making sexual jokes and propositioning her to join him alone in his office. In a 2014 email shared with BuzzFeed News, she described the incident to her own employer in order to shoot down a proposed collaboration with Tyson.
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Old 6th December 2018, 03:22 AM   #22
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Jesus wept, if I detailed every incidence in which a woman had made lewd suggestions to me it would take me until 2050 (and I'm uglier than a hog). It's called life, you idiot woman, so suck on that.
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Old 6th December 2018, 04:27 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
..you idiot woman, so suck on that.





Stellar defense of Tyson there
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Old 6th December 2018, 10:20 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Jesus wept, if I detailed every incidence in which a woman had made lewd suggestions to me it would take me until 2050 (and I'm uglier than a hog). It's called life, you idiot woman, so suck on that.
Yeah dat. Propositioned at a party? It's called "freedom of expression".

I guess some people think it is only reasonable to meet potential mates in Sunday school.
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Old 6th December 2018, 10:25 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Make it four women:
That seems like a solid reason to decline working with Tyson, but doesn't rise to the level of sexual misconduct, in my opinion.
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Old 6th December 2018, 11:51 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
It's called life, you idiot woman, so suck on that.
Telling her to suck on it is what got Tyson in trouble.
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Old 6th December 2018, 12:02 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Telling her to suck on it is what got Tyson in trouble.
And other women like the taste. How is a guy supposed to know unless he asks?
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Old 6th December 2018, 01:09 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Make it four women:

Now a fourth woman has told BuzzFeed News her experience of sexual harassment from Tyson. In January 2010, she recalled, she joined her then-boyfriend at a holiday party for employees of the American Museum of Natural History. Tyson, its most famous employee, drunkenly approached her, she said, making sexual jokes and propositioning her to join him alone in his office. In a 2014 email shared with BuzzFeed News, she described the incident to her own employer in order to shoot down a proposed collaboration with Tyson.

To be absolutely sure I understood it correctly, I looked up proposition, but I still don't see any real problem ... unless his jokes were really bad. He propositioned, she declined.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
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Old 6th December 2018, 01:09 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Telling her to suck on it is what got Tyson in trouble.
I think he merely suggested it.
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Old 6th December 2018, 01:17 PM   #30
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It just occurred to me that we have this move in salsa rueda Cubana:

Quote:
Festival el principe bueno y malo:
“On the 4th count, perform an Enchufala Y Dame, and slap the follower you are with gently on their buttocks while moving to the next follower. Followers can try avoid being “tagged.””
El principe bueno + el principe malo triple: http://www.salsalust.com/move.php?id=11
Principe Malo (Ruedawiki)

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


I've never heard any complaints about this, and I haven't been able to find any on the internet.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 6th December 2018, 09:07 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
That seems like a solid reason to decline working with Tyson, but doesn't rise to the level of sexual misconduct, in my opinion.
Well, these days the standard seems to be that any unwanted sexual attention is verboten, and if you ask "How am I to know it's unwanted until I try a few lines?" you're part of the problem.
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