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#161 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 21,461
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Here's a photo of the locks from the inside. Can't find a better picture.
Photo. ETA: That photo doesn't necessarily show the layout of his apartment unit. This building has various layouts for different units. But the locks are probably the same for all units. |
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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#162 |
Illuminator
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,261
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#163 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 21,461
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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#164 |
Illuminator
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,261
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#165 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: NJ USA. We Don't Like You Either
Posts: 6,402
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"Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
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#166 |
Misanthrope of the Mountains
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 23,701
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This. THIS. THIS! Even if she absolutely thought she was in her apartment she should never have had her first reaction be "reach for gun, shoot whoever is inside!" That just should not be how a cop should react. They should try and investigate. Assess. Not just trigger happy. |
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"Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com
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#167 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 84,717
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Is there any factual reports as to why she shot him?
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I wish I knew how to quit you |
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#168 |
Meandering fecklessly
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,111
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It's not just a pitiful level of training, but coupled with the attitude of "I'm going home every night to my family no matter what," and the warrior cop mentality, having the ability to lie with impunity, and most importantly, an absurd lack of accountability in every day policing.
Lower down the list, the excuses given by the courts (and by extension, society) for cops not actually knowing the laws they're enforcing and the apparently common issue of rejecting higher intelligence police applicants play roles in these kinds of outcomes. Crime is at the lowest levels we've had in forty years (apparently going up a tad but still no where *near* the crime of the 80's) yet fear of crime, especially by police, is at all time highs. |
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#169 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,343
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Two short (alleged) videos and some witness accounts:
https://heavy.com/news/2018/09/botha...las-instagram/ |
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#170 |
Uncritical "thinker"
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 19,959
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OECD healthcare spending Expenditure on healthcare http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm link is 2015 data (2013 Data below): UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending |
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#171 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,774
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"The cure for everything is salt water - tears, sweat or the sea." Isak Dinesen |
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#172 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,964
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#173 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,967
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#174 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,589
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Lack of training.
The benefit of the doubt to the point that cops can shoot anyone under any circumstance and successfully claim it was justified. An increased militarisation of the police with more weaponry in general available to them, meaning the emphasis is on use of weapons. A culture of fear and being under siege within the police itself. Poor recruitment methods meaning the wrong people are getting into the police. I think that pretty much covers why the US police have ended up in the state that it is. Like the gun problem, the police problem is too entrenched for the USA to be able to solve it. As a result, Americans just need to get used to having a far higher chance of being shot by criminals, youths, angry people and the police than any other western nation (and many others besides). |
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Audiophile/biker/sceptic |
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#175 |
Uncritical "thinker"
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 19,959
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You missed out the plethora of really small police departments that can't have the resources for proper management support or oversight and training but still have guns. Putting them under the state forces would provide quite a lot of clarity.
Collecting and publishing accurate statistics of shootings and comparing different groups in similar areas to flag up discrepancies would help. The UK had some similar problems - albeit at the start of the nineteenth century, so it is possible to change. It would be possible with political will |
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OECD healthcare spending Expenditure on healthcare http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm link is 2015 data (2013 Data below): UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending |
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#176 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,884
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#177 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,589
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Audiophile/biker/sceptic |
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#178 |
Uncritical "thinker"
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 19,959
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Yes, but at least if a police force of 700 officers* gets it right there it the chance of institutional learning and continuity, as well as sufficient slack for training and career progression.
If you have a force of ten people (so about the median police force size in the US) even if they get it right, the're likely to have to relearn once a key person retires. There isn't the size necessary for appropriate support. *so small by UK standards |
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OECD healthcare spending Expenditure on healthcare http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm link is 2015 data (2013 Data below): UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending |
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#179 |
![]() Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 47,344
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You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
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#180 |
Meandering fecklessly
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,111
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#181 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,602
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Those are factors.
In truth, many police were brutal towards nonwhite people - and in many cases poor white people as well. And in truth, we still have little or no insight to many of them - departments trash complaints after a few years, have other cops "investigate" them, there's not so much as a "This guy's terrible, he can't be a cop anywhere in the US any more" database, or really even a comprehensive database of people killed by police. and many unions and societies actually prefer it this way, setting up a police department with at best questionable accountability to anyone in the community of elected government. This effectively means that, while in a town like Ferguson you end up with what amounts to a white supremacist police department, in many cities police are able to set up grotesque divisions that end up mired in corruption and cruelty. But in this particular case, I don't know if these are particular factors. Especially true since, while police behavior has been questionable even here, the cop has been charged with a crime at the very least. |
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#182 |
Meandering fecklessly
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,111
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There was also that special (at least one that I saw, there could be others) done by some local TV station which I think was in Florida which sent people into local police stations asking for complaint forms or what the complaint process is and naturally filmed under cover and the terrible, inexcusable behavior by the approximately dozen officers who would lie, intimidate and threaten these guys when they asked for information. The cops would demand knowing the information-seeker's personal information, what the complaint was about, which officer and when it happened and all that and would lie about having a process in place, or lie about a form not being available and so on.
The police chief(s) were interviewed after the fact and couldn't offer any explanation but kinda blew off the interviewer by saying some vague, "I'll look into it" kind of thing. Not every station did this but something like 90-ish percent of the stations ran the information-seeker out with no information or with no complaint form. All this does is highlight the fact that police in general don't apparently want to hear when their officers misbehave and don't particularly care that society doesn't trust them. It's just sad most especially since this is a fixable problem. |
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#183 |
Straussian
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 12,586
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Why was he living in an apartment so similar to her's?
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April 13th, 2018: Ranb: I can't think of anything useful you contributed to a thread in the last few years. |
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#184 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 23,415
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As I hear the latest news she has not actually had a legal charge or an arrest warrant, and the Texas Rangers continue to investigate.
Maybe she'll be able to pull the popular politicians' trick of saying she takes full responsibility, the reward for such honesty being the cancellation of consequences. I hear she's "devastated," so we can start counting down to "suffered enough." |
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I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver) Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard) |
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#185 |
![]() Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 47,344
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You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
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#186 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,254
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Somebody want to give TM an English lesson?
The 's is needed to mean "that apartment". Otherwise, everybody would want to know "her what?" There is a name for that.something like "3rd person past petite participle plursal posseseive" |
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Great minds discuss ideas. Medium minds discuss events. Small minds spend all their time on U-Tube and Facebook. |
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#187 |
![]() Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 47,344
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Seriously? "Hers" is possessive. "Her" is not. "This is her. This is her cat. This cat is hers, not his."
Do you apostrophize "his" as well, to show possession? "Hi's apartment"? "His's apartment"? I hope for your sake you were joking. eta: Clearly you were joking, sorry to fly off the handle. Grammar is not a matter to be treated lightly. |
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You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
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#188 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,671
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We finally found the one thing TragicMonkey won't joke about.
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#189 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,343
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Cop identified, charges still pending. This is her second shooting.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/amber-g...ay-2018-09-08/ https://heavy.com/news/2018/09/amber-guyger/ |
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#190 |
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD
Posts: 28,482
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Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right? Tony Szamboti: That is right |
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#191 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 21,461
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Neighbors say he has this red doormat outside his door unlike other tenants. If so, it would make his doorway unique and easily identified.
https://dallasnews.imgix.net/1536423...=50&or=0&w=400 |
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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#192 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 21,461
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This photo of his door seems to show that there is no electronic lock at all.
https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpre...18/09/door.jpg |
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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#193 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: As far away from casebro as possible.
Posts: 7,047
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All this nonsense about lock details.
Seems simple, guy hears someone scrabbling around trying to open his door so goes to look. Cop thinks "Oh **** there's a black dude (or something) in my flat." Bang. Cop thinks "Oh ******" ETA TM will be proud. His. No apostrophe. |
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#194 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 21,461
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It looks like the door lock cylinder has been removed - as evidence?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DmmQIdJV4AAWtC-.jpg |
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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#195 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: NJ USA. We Don't Like You Either
Posts: 6,402
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"Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
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#196 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 21,461
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It occurs to me that proper procedure might include more than just administering first aid. She has to establish her own safety. If she truly believes that she just shot a burglar in her own apartment maybe she ought to immediately establish that there isn't an accomplice still lurking in her apartment. That would require a quick "clearing" of the unit. Check every room and closet. It would be a bad situation if you were doing first aid and then another burglar guy suddenly appears with a gun pointed at your head.
I still presume that she discovered it wasn't her place moments after shooting him and before she called dispatch. |
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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#197 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 21,461
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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#198 |
Uncritical "thinker"
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 19,959
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It's a bit of a moot point. Either she could get into the apartment or she couldn't at first. Neither way should she have shot the inhabitant. Mistaking it for her own apartment is not an excuse either way.
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OECD healthcare spending Expenditure on healthcare http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm link is 2015 data (2013 Data below): UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending |
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#199 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 23,415
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I agree the issue of lock details seems like a derail if, as it appears, the occupant opened the door from inside. Under what circumstances would he have been shot then, unless she already had her gun at the ready, and did not wait for an explanation and did not look beyond the man in front of her to notice that it wasn't her house?
Of course we can't know for certain what happened and how, and since the shooter is the only living witness, we probably never will. But I suspect that the initial presumption that it was her door closed her mind to any doubt, and that with that certainty, she was prepared to shoot before it opened, shot the occupant on sight, and did not even perceive the apartment itself until after shooting. It's a terrible sort of human error, for which one can feel a certain sympathy, but it's mitigated by the fact that (in my opinion at least) people who go around lethally armed have volunteered to follow a stricter set of rules. |
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I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver) Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard) |
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#200 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: NJ USA. We Don't Like You Either
Posts: 6,402
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Agreed. If the officer claimed she was trained to shoot to kill unarmed people, she also has responsibility for accepting that training as appropriate. People are not poodles and can make evaluations independent of training. If they genuinely cannot, they should not have guns, period
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"Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
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