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Old 21st November 2018, 10:41 AM   #41
baron
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Can Asians be racist?
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I love how the owner said he understands because he's asian. I'm pretty sure asians don't have to deal with this sort of stuff regularily, if at all.
Originally Posted by baron View Post
Don't ask me, it was you who said you're 'pretty certain' Asians don't experience racism.
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Don't lie. I didn't say that.

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Old 21st November 2018, 10:41 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by rdwight View Post
Why after the officers were informed of the situation did they still instruct the gentleman to leave is confusing.
This, however, is exactly on the mark.

What the police should have done, after finding out that he was supervising parental visit, would have been to say, "Sorry to bother you. Have a good day!"

If they wanted to be douchebags, they could have asked for confirmation of his status, and, likely he had his paperwork with him (normally in such situation, I would have my authorization with me). If, for some reason he didn't, he could just offer to call the judge. At least, that's what I'd do. Our judge doesn't take too kindly to folks who hassle the CASAs (the CA stands for "court appointed", so I am working at her behest and she has my back.

The last thing they should have done is to send him out of the store.
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Old 21st November 2018, 10:43 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
What you quoted doesn't say that he doesn't deal with racism.

Should I assume that the intricacies of English elude you, and explain it to you? Or should I assume that you did understand but are, as usual, pretending not to? I'll do the latter.
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Last edited by Belz...; 21st November 2018 at 10:44 AM.
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Old 21st November 2018, 10:44 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
This, however, is exactly on the mark.

What the police should have done, after finding out that he was supervising parental visit, would have been to say, "Sorry to bother you. Have a good day!"

If they wanted to be douchebags, they could have asked for confirmation of his status, and, likely he had his paperwork with him (normally in such situation, I would have my authorization with me). If, for some reason he didn't, he could just offer to call the judge. At least, that's what I'd do. Our judge doesn't take too kindly to folks who hassle the CASAs (the CA stands for "court appointed", so I am working at her behest and she has my back.

The last thing they should have done is to send him out of the store.
It's not the job of the police to set store enforcement policy. The manager wanted the guy out so the cops asked him to leave. They could have sorted it out, true, but they were under no obligation to do so. God, if the police got involved in a debate every time they were asked to eject someone from a pub or restaurant or public place they'd do nothing else. They're asked to do it and they do it.
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Old 21st November 2018, 10:46 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I doubt he gets cops called on him just for being somewhere and, I don't know, having the appearance of a suspicious person.
I didn't realise you were being so specific when you said "this sort of stuff".
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Old 21st November 2018, 10:46 AM   #46
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What if, the owner is just an ******* who calls the police on anyone who hasn't bought anything in 30 minutes?

Can we pull police dispatch records to see if they go there regularly and if they only pull black loiterers out of the store?

What if 9 out of 10 responses to the store are for white loiterers?

I'm just trying to figure out how it's racist, i'm not saying it isn't, but do we have a trend here? Can't an owner kick anyone out of their store for loitering?
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Old 21st November 2018, 10:46 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Yes, I get that. But his exaggeration is the crux of what some of us find problematic with this meme. He describes what most of us go through, but he is more burdened than the rest of us. So I ask: he had the cops called on him when he did nothing wrong, but looked suspicious. Yeah, me too. No tears here. Why are his eyes misting if he is going through no more than the rest of us?

BTW, I know racism is a very real problem. My argument is that the LWB meme does not reflect it well, and comes off as counterproductive entitled whining. The posters are trying too hard to make a meme out of everyday nuicances, and are getting progressively sillier. The Chipolte Gang, Crosswalk Cathy, accused white racists that turn out to have black spouses...the meme is shooting itself in the foot
But that's not what's happened, or to be more accurate that's half of what's happening.

"Progressives are too hung up on racism" (which they are, or at least hung up in the wrong way if that hair simply must be split) and "Racism doesn't exist (or to be more accurate "I'm totally not saying racism doesn't exist, I'm just going to pitch a hissy fit over every single possible example of it put forth") start to feed off each other.

Problem is that's not some "Equally bad" argument. Sure Progressives are gonna... Progressivate. Which means their standard MO of everything being put forth in the most whiny, dramatic way possible. It's what they do. That's annoying.

Racism still exists. That's not annoying, that's a problem.
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Old 21st November 2018, 10:48 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
What you quoted doesn't say that he doesn't deal with racism.

Should I assume that the intricacies of English elude you, and explain it to you? Or should I assume that you did understand but are, as usual, pretending not to? I'll do the latter.
Well, you can try and worm your way out of it if you like but your statement is pretty non equivocal.
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Old 21st November 2018, 10:48 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
I didn't realise you were being so specific when you said "this sort of stuff".
Didn't you? We have more than one thread about black people having cops called on them for sitting somewhere, or being in their car, or being with kids. It seems that black people just look suspicious. I don't think Asians have to deal with this sort of stuff.

Of course they deal with racism. It'd be silly to claim otherwise. As I said to baron before, they deal with a different sort of racism. That should have tipped you all off to the fact that they do, in fact, deal with racism.
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Old 21st November 2018, 10:48 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
What if, the owner is just an ******* who calls the police on anyone who hasn't bought anything in 30 minutes?
The fact that he's not doing that is the point.

What kind of racist apologetics is that? "I'm not racist because I totally could call the cops on the white folks as well I just don't."

I get you're going for the "Stupid liberal PC lamestream media is only reporting the black cases" angle, but that doesn't make logical sense.
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Old 21st November 2018, 10:49 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Well, you can try and worm your way out of it if you like but your statement is pretty non equivocal.
Baron, your insane interpretations of what other people write don't magically transform their intent to match your delusions.

You are, obviously, utterly unable to challenge your own perceptions. Either that, or you're trolling. Either way, you're not worth the time. Read my previous post if you're too dense to get it now.
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Old 21st November 2018, 10:50 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
The fact that he's not doing that is the point.

What kind of racist apologetics is that? "I'm not racist because I totally could call the cops on the white folks as well I just don't."

I get you're going for the "Stupid liberal PC lamestream media is only reporting the black cases" angle, but that doesn't make logical sense.
Read better.

I'm saying, why do we think this case is racist?

Is there a trend? Are the cops only called to this location for blacks? Then yes racist.

Are the cops called to this location based not on skin color, but on the loitering? Then not racist.
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Old 21st November 2018, 10:51 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Read better.

I'm saying, why do we think this case is racist?

Is there a trend? Are the cops only called to this location for blacks? Then yes racist.

Are the cops called to this location based not on skin color, but on the loitering? Then not racist.
Non sequitur.
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Old 21st November 2018, 10:52 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Didn't you? We have more than one thread about black people having cops called on them for sitting somewhere, or being in their car, or being with kids. It seems that black people just look suspicious. I don't think Asians have to deal with this sort of stuff.
Sure, just like whites don't have to deal with 'this sort of stuff'.

https://youtu.be/ywZhTSNGSaw
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Old 21st November 2018, 10:52 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Read better.

I'm saying, why do we think this case is racist?

Is there a trend? Are the cops only called to this location for blacks? Then yes racist.

Are the cops called to this location based not on skin color, but on the loitering? Then not racist.
Again have fun picking through the avalanche looking at every single individual flake of snow going "Well that's odd. I don't see an avalanche in here."
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Old 21st November 2018, 10:53 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Non sequitur.
How?
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Old 21st November 2018, 10:53 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Sure, just like whites don't have to deal with 'this sort of stuff'.

https://youtu.be/ywZhTSNGSaw
Now who's trying to "worm" their way out of their words? Did you or did you not interpret my post wrong?

Don't post Youtube arguments. It's also not worth my time.
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Old 21st November 2018, 10:54 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Again have fun picking through the avalanche looking at every single individual flake of snow going "Well that's odd. I don't see an avalanche in here."
Whut?
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Old 21st November 2018, 10:54 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
How?
Racism doesn't require 100% consistency to be real.
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Old 21st November 2018, 10:55 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Read better.

I'm saying, why do we think this case is racist?

Is there a trend? Are the cops only called to this location for blacks? Then yes racist.

Are the cops called to this location based not on skin color, but on the loitering? Then not racist.
The sad thing is that people of all colours experience serious racism all the time, involving life-changing harassment, assault and even murder, and meanwhile we get thread upon thread of this inconsequential frothy crap.
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Old 21st November 2018, 10:56 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Racism doesn't require 100% consistency to be real.
If someone calls the police on loiterers, and one of them happens to be black, it does not make the caller racist.
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Old 21st November 2018, 10:56 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Now who's trying to "worm" their way out of their words? Did you or did you not interpret my post wrong?
No, I did not. It reads exactly like I first thought and it's just as much a pile of the steaming proverbial as it was when you first posted it. Also, I reserve the right to bring it up in future, if only for the humour value.
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Old 21st November 2018, 10:56 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
But it was an Asian who called the cops. Can Asians be racist? I await further information.
Tribalism is a common trait, in fact it is the default position. Same lowest common denominator. Expecting more from any supposedly advanced, civilized, or "greatest" set of humans speaks to what one thinks those descriptors should mean in terms of enlightened behavior. As a reflection of considered views informed by the same science powering the outward signs of that advancement, one expects awareness of both tribal bias and of its intellectual vacuity. As for the US in particular, the violent nature and historical recency of the manner in which Europeans arrived and conquered the land now occupied does give pause when it is those benefiting from those same Europeans who object to, not the same fate, but a peaceful and largely benign version of traditional human migration. For anyone of any race in an advanced economy, to "go tribal" is to willingly stick oneself to the underside of that lowest common denominator. In the US, it is to do so with mad glee.
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Old 21st November 2018, 10:57 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
But that's not what's happened, or to be more accurate that's half of what's happening.

"Progressives are too hung up on racism" (which they are, or at least hung up in the wrong way if that hair simply must be split) and "Racism doesn't exist (or to be more accurate "I'm totally not saying racism doesn't exist, I'm just going to pitch a hissy fit over every single possible example of it put forth") start to feed off each other.

Problem is that's not some "Equally bad" argument. Sure Progressives are gonna... Progressivate. Which means their standard MO of everything being put forth in the most whiny, dramatic way possible. It's what they do. That's annoying.

Racism still exists. That's not annoying, that's a problem.
Right. And that's the problem. Every time a thread comes up and it turns out the Chipolte Gang was lying about being discriminated against, it feeds into the 'poor black me' stereotype' and a few more people will start leaning towards the'racism is not a problem anymore' camp. And the progressives and Woke Folk look less reasonable buying into it. For the collective flipping good will, it should be ridiculed unless it actually demknstrates racism in a meaningful way
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Old 21st November 2018, 10:58 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Whut?
He's saying that you won't see a trend if you dismiss each individual case as just an isolated incident.
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Old 21st November 2018, 11:01 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
He's saying that you won't see a trend if you dismiss each individual case as just an isolated incident.
Well lets look for a trend involving calls to that store.

I'm not dismissing the racism claim until I see who that store calls the police on.

If 96% of the calls are on black loiterers , then racism.

If 2.5% of the calls are on black loiterers, then probably not racism.
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Old 21st November 2018, 11:07 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Well lets look for a trend involving calls to that store.

I'm not dismissing the racism claim until I see who that store calls the police on.

If 96% of the calls are on black loiterers , then racism.

If 2.5% of the calls are on black loiterers, then probably not racism.
What if 96% of loiterers are Black?
Outside of coffee-shops most non-homeless folks don't just sit down in stores and stare without buying something.
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Old 21st November 2018, 11:07 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Well, you can try and worm your way out of it if you like but your statement is pretty non equivocal.
Belz is very clearly saying that Asians do not experience this type of racism as much. He's obviously not saying that Asians experience no racism whatsoever. That would be a ridiculously stupid claim.

It's disappointing that I need to explain this to an adult.
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Old 21st November 2018, 11:07 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Well lets look for a trend involving calls to that store.

I'm not dismissing the racism claim until I see who that store calls the police on.

If 96% of the calls are on black loiterers , then racism.

If 2.5% of the calls are on black loiterers, then probably not racism.
Again, non sequitur. You didn't even account for the proportion of black customers.
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Old 21st November 2018, 11:08 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Well lets look for a trend involving calls to that store.

I'm not dismissing the racism claim until I see who that store calls the police on.

If 96% of the calls are on black loiterers , then racism.

If 2.5% of the calls are on black loiterers, then probably not racism.
What if they basically never make calls about loiterers in the first place, but chose to do it in this case?

Before I'd look for a trend on who that store calls the police on, I'd like to know if they've ever called the police on anyone for loitering before.
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Old 21st November 2018, 11:10 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Belz is very clearly saying that Asians do not experience this type of racism as much. He's obviously not saying that Asians experience no racism whatsoever. That would be a ridiculously stupid claim.

It's disappointing that I need to explain this to an adult.
He knows. He conveniently ignored post 25 in this laughing dog debacle. That post makes it pretty clear that Asians deal with racism too.
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Old 21st November 2018, 11:11 AM   #72
Mr Salk
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
What if they basically never make calls about loiterers in the first place, but chose to do it in this case?

Before I'd look for a trend on who that store calls the police on, I'd like to know if they've ever called the police on anyone for loitering before.
I doubt you'll find a trend. Only a maniac would sit in a yogurt shop and not eat yogurt.
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Old 21st November 2018, 11:14 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Mr Salk View Post
I doubt you'll find a trend. Only a maniac would sit in a yogurt shop and not eat yogurt.
He could have lactose intolerance. As opposed to the staff, who had blacktose intolerance.
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Old 21st November 2018, 11:15 AM   #74
Belz...
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
He could have lactose intolerance. As opposed to the staff, who had blacktose intolerance.
If only you used that wit more often.
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Old 21st November 2018, 11:28 AM   #75
pgwenthold
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Originally Posted by Mr Salk View Post
I doubt you'll find a trend. Only a maniac would sit in a yogurt shop and not eat yogurt.
Or someone serving the community and trying to help children and parents reunite.
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Old 21st November 2018, 11:29 AM   #76
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Few things here

a) What is with the US news stories and repeating that someone is a veteran as if it is supposed to give them a status that is above others?

b) I have read a lot of these US "......while black" threads, and while I have been sympathetic towards the vast majority of the people harrassed, this has to be up there as one of the least seemingly racially motivate. The race of the bloke was even mentioned till he was asked for a description

c) The owner wasn't in the store and obviously had remote access to the video, and frankly just sounded like a good bloke who had been rung by panicked staff freaked out by a dude sitting by himself looking from his phone to them, so cared enough about them to check it out.

Whether the staffs worries were because of his race, we have no idea

d) Someone seemed to imply Asians don't get racist crap.

Was that a joke?

e) The owner didn't even ring 911. If you listen to the start of call he was ringing the local cop shop to talk to the local cops and it was automatically transferred to 911, because it was after hours.


Mountain meet mole hill

PS Is there no way we can have a new sub forum called "Yanks doing racist stuff" rather than clogging up this one, as it is beginning to get a tad silly
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Old 21st November 2018, 11:38 AM   #77
Belz...
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Few things here

a) What is with the US news stories and repeating that someone is a veteran as if it is supposed to give them a status that is above others?
It's to show that they are, in fact, not just random slum slime.
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Old 21st November 2018, 11:44 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
The sad thing is that people of all colours experience serious racism all the time, involving life-changing harassment, assault and even murder, and meanwhile we get thread upon thread of this inconsequential frothy crap.
It's helpful here that you've included postulates rather than just rebuttals as it provides context for discussing and understanding your perspective. I see from an earlier post of yours that you have also experienced discrimination based on your appearance, which provides further context. Would you be willing to clarify whether, irrespective of this particular case, you agree that black people in America are more likely to experience what you consider "serious racism" than other visible minorities? And could you specify what body of evidence you consider to be the primary foundation for that opinion? Thanks.
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Old 21st November 2018, 11:47 AM   #79
cullennz
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
It's to show that they are, in fact, not just random slum slime.
I still don't see how this is relevant to the situation

Is the paper saying the owner is supposed to know out of instinct the bloke he is looking at on CCTV happened to do a few years working for Uncle Sam, as if this somehow negates any possibility the guy might be scum?

I never realised that Americans thought no one who has been in their armed forces could also be dodgy
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Old 21st November 2018, 11:50 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I still don't see how this is relevant to the situation
It's not, except to show that the assumption that he was a ne'er-do-well lowlife was wrong.
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