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#121 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 15,910
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- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC |
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#122 |
Thinker
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 168
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He was sitting at a nearby table. He didn't appear to the staff to be "with" them. Even parents usually sit at the same table and chat a bit.
Yogurt is ordered at the counter. Yes, they could have yelled to him or walked out and asked for his order. But clearly he wasn't there to order; everyone knows how to buy yogurt. So if he doesn't want yoghurt, what should young inexperienced staff do about a loiterer staring at customers? Call the manager. |
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#123 |
Thinker
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 168
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#124 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,244
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No. They should ask him if he planned to order. The actions of the staff were wrong in every way. But that's just the start.
Next, we have the cops, who after learning why the guy was there still ordered him to leave. You may chose to believe racism had nothing to do with this. I chose to call that sentiment naive at best. |
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Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 |
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#125 |
Embarrasingly illiterate
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,571
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record. Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000 |
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#126 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Sep 2012
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#127 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 21,461
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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#128 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,244
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__________________
Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 |
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#129 |
Graduate Poster
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#130 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,244
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__________________
Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 |
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#131 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 21,461
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__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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#132 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,244
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__________________
Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 |
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#133 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,155
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Nope, I disagree.
“They asked me to leave,” Ragland said. “They asked for my ID. They told me the manager had been watching me and wanted me to move along.” Ragland did “move along,” he says — though that phrase, as if he were a stray dog, made him bristle." There's a difference between a request or an order in a civilised society, the police know that and so the request might become an order, but the request is not an order. EDIT: Unless you live in like Saudi Arabia or something. |
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#134 |
Thinker
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 168
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#135 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 21,461
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__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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#136 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,884
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Not sure the cops can be blamed for anything here. Businesses have the right to refuse service or to ask a non-customer to leave, don't they? I'm not saying it's right, or that it's not racist. But if the business wants him to leave, can the cops deny that and say "no, he can stay"? Or are they obliged to ask him to leave because the business wants him to leave?
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#137 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,244
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__________________
Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 |
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#138 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,244
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The cops could have explained the situation to the staff and then questioned their intent if they still wanted the guy to leave. The cops should have understood that the guy was there performing a court appointed civic duty and that the staff had nothing to fear from him. They should also have understood that the guy was there accompanying two paying customers.
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__________________
Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 |
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#139 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,217
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Rubbish. If a cop requests something then they request something. They might well order you if you don't comply but equally they may not. You try photographing 'sensitive' buildings in public and you're likely to get a cop approach, often at the request of 'security', and request that you tell them why you're taking photos, or that you move along. You ask them if they are ordering you to do so and they will say no, because it's not a criminal offence. There are hundreds of videos on YT of cops doing just this. In this instance the cops were actioning the request of the business owner, which may or may not be backed up by law (I don't know state laws in regard to this). If remaining on private property once asked to leave is not a criminal offence than the cops can do nothing but request. Even if it is an offence they might well request and not enforce.
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"I don't think I'm getting the most out of my computer. I turn it on... and use it as a light." - Harry Hill |
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#140 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,155
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Well I suppose I am lucky being in the UK then, the police here can request you to do something,
a certain percent (most imo) would do it automatically but If some people don't, the following does not really come into play. The above is just bullying. UK police tend to follow the law, and will use the law to enable the ability to remove people if needed, they tend not to rely on fear. |
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#141 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,244
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Where did I imply I rely on fear?
I ask nicely at first. Then I tell them to leave. Then I move them. That's escalation, and I'm pretty sure UK cops do the same. What is worded at first as a suggestion is to be taken as an order. The point is, if a cop tells you to leave, do not take it as a suggestion. |
__________________
Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 |
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#142 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 10,584
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend. |
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#143 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: NJ USA. We Don't Like You Either
Posts: 6,402
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"Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
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#144 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2006
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__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend. |
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#145 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,155
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Then I will refer you back to my original post
Re the highlighted...they don't. Here's a thing that might surprise you, we don't even have to give our names to the police even when ordered. Unless we are suspected of committing a crime. EDIT: the police in the UK work ( well supposed to) for the people, they're supposed to be our friends. **** knows what's going on in the US. |
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#146 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2006
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend. |
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#147 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 10,584
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__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend. |
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#148 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,043
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But he wasn't a random black man to her, he was a man whos presence assisted or enabled her to safely and lawfully see her son. The customer service staff did not do their job, they called the police to do it for them, unfortunately the police who responded for whatever reason did not use common sense.
An understanding of nuance, tact and sense are all missing from these LWB cases. |
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#149 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: NJ USA. We Don't Like You Either
Posts: 6,402
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"Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
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#150 |
Graduate Poster
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#151 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,217
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__________________
"I don't think I'm getting the most out of my computer. I turn it on... and use it as a light." - Harry Hill |
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#152 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 10,584
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__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend. |
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#153 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,607
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The table was "adjacent," but I see where you're getting this.
I can't tell what you're saying. Even parents usually sit at the same table as who? Do you have knowledge of how supervised visits are supposed to look? Where are you getting that they were young and inexperienced? Apologies if I missed this in the column/call. BTW the claim I think is that he was staring at employees, not customers. That part is fine. But they still wanted him to leave even after it became perfectly clear what the situation was. They were "thankful" he was gone. Responding to someone else: "Move along" from a cop is tantamount to an order. If he hadn't, they might have Tazed him, or worse. Maybe you posted this as parody, but it's actually more clearly racist than a lot of these "LWB" threads. Other than he wasn't "making them comfortable," as the report put it, I can't think of any reason why this is not straight-up racism. He wasn't trying to get buzzed into a locked building, he wasn't using charcoal in a gas-only barbecue area, he wasn't even an unlucky apartment dweller with a few grams of weed. He didn't brush anybody with a bulky backpack, or any of the other situations that have involved random busybodies and people of some color other than beige. ETA: Didn't fall asleep in a dormitory common area, etc. etc. |
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#154 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 10,584
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In my state, it's this:
"I do solemnly swear that I will support the Constitutions of the United States and of the State of Tennessee, and the ordinances of the City of ____________________, and will well and faithfully perform the duties imposed upon me as a police officer of the City of to the best of my ability; and that I will serve the United States, the State of Tennessee, and the City of ________________honestly and faithfully, and will obey the orders of the officers and officials placed over me according to law." So, significantly different from the UK oath. Nothing about peace. |
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend. |
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#155 |
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#156 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 15,910
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Is it to late to point out that everyone in this scenario is suspect because yogurt is just awful?
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__________________
- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC |
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#157 |
Philosopher
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#158 |
Graduate Poster
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#159 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,607
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I think it's worth mentioning that the police department did apologize.
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#160 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2011
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