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Old 21st November 2018, 09:19 AM   #1
3point14
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The Endangered Andamans tribe

This tribe really, really do not want anything to do with the outside world.

The best thing, then, according to John Allen Chau, a 27 year old from Alabam, is to try to convert them to Christianity.

They killed him. His body is still on the beach.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-46286215


Aren't we long, long past converting the natives to Christianity? It was bad enough 300 years ago, but now???
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Old 21st November 2018, 09:22 AM   #2
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- Yeah we're way past the "Convert the Heathens" stage in our civilizations development I like to think.

- Having said that having in 2018 an official policy of "Yeah there's just this island full of people that will kill you if you go there, so we just leave them be" seems... off to me.
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Old 21st November 2018, 09:24 AM   #3
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It's not so much 'they will kill you if you go there' (although no doubt that's part of it)

The real concern is that if we go there - they will die. They likely have no immunity whatsoever to a range of diseases and would be wiped out very quickly.
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Old 21st November 2018, 09:25 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
- Yeah we're way past the "Convert the Heathens" stage in our civilizations development I like to think.

- Having said that having in 2018 an official policy of "Yeah there's just this island full of people that will kill you if you go there, so we just leave them be" seems... off to me.
Probably because those who have gone their in the past have....um...not been there with very good motives.

Like this guy.

Although keep in mind one of the justifications for keeping people out is disease. And that is absolutely legitimate.

If outsiders were going there without trying to exploit the land or the people, it might go over better.
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Old 21st November 2018, 09:41 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Probably because those who have gone their in the past have....um...not been there with very good motives.

Like this guy.
How would they even know his motives?

Quote:
If outsiders were going there without trying to exploit the land or the people, it might go over better.
Go over better with whom?

From all indications, the natives will attack visitors regardless of the visitors' motives. I don't say this to blame them, but to point out that there just don't seem to be any good options for establishing contact.
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Old 21st November 2018, 09:57 AM   #6
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I don't know about Christianity but someone needs to tell these guys that diversity is strength.
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Old 21st November 2018, 10:01 AM   #7
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You might be able to keep outsiders away by telling everyone that the islanders carry a disease for which nobody else has an immunity.
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Old 21st November 2018, 10:03 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
You might be able to keep outsiders away by telling everyone that the islanders carry a disease for which nobody else has an immunity.
Given that disease can be a weapon, so to can weapons be a disease....so you aren't wrong.
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Old 21st November 2018, 10:07 AM   #9
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This missionary may have thought that Jesus can and will block arrows. An immunity to pointy projectiles.
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Old 21st November 2018, 10:12 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
You might be able to keep outsiders away by telling everyone that the islanders carry a disease for which nobody else has an immunity.
Phone Trump, he could use that one.
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Old 21st November 2018, 11:44 AM   #11
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A critical survival skill is the ability to take a hint. If a bunch of people have a history of murdering everyone who shows up uninvited that is a hint that the very wisest might consider indicating a possible suggestion of perhaps not receiving a thoroughly pleasant welcome there.
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Old 21st November 2018, 11:55 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
A critical survival skill is the ability to take a hint. If a bunch of people have a history of murdering everyone who shows up uninvited that is a hint that the very wisest might consider indicating a possible suggestion of perhaps not receiving a thoroughly pleasant welcome there.
Yeah, but their eternal souls are at risk. Certain strains of evangelical Christians believe that accepting Jesus is necessary for eternal bliss. The poor fellows don't even have the option, not knowing the Good News. How sad that they are doomed to eternal hellfire, someone should help them.

Chalk up another win for good intentions.
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Old 21st November 2018, 12:15 PM   #13
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Quote:
Seven fishermen have been arrested for illegally ferrying the American to the island, police say.
Good. This was incredibly stupid and the people who took him to the island knew he would be killed within minutes. It's close enough to murder in my book.

By the way, this:

Quote:
Contact with the endangered Andaman tribes living in isolation from the world is illegal because of the risks to them from outside disease.
...is a politely accepted untruth. The real reason contact with this particular tribe is illegal is because they are murderously hostile to anyone who visits.
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Old 21st November 2018, 12:19 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Aren't we long, long past converting the natives to Christianity? It was bad enough 300 years ago, but now???
Have you ever been on the internet? We need to convince others that we're right, no matter what.
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Old 21st November 2018, 12:37 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Yeah, but their eternal souls are at risk. Certain strains of evangelical Christians believe that accepting Jesus is necessary for eternal bliss. The poor fellows don't even have the option, not knowing the Good News. How sad that they are doomed to eternal hellfire, someone should help them.

Chalk up another win for good intentions.
Hmmm. Q: If landing on that island Himself, What Would Jesus Do?

A: Be immediately murdered by the natives.

I think even Jesus would be willing to give those guys a pass on religion.
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Old 21st November 2018, 12:46 PM   #16
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These islanders seem to be racist which would make them pond scum. We are not supposed to simply ignore and avoid racists. They are to be converted to being non-racist or maybe should be imprisoned or something.

How can we just let racists be racists?
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Old 21st November 2018, 12:49 PM   #17
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Should I start a "Preaching while Chinese American" thread?

That will show the racist aboriginal islanders.
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Old 21st November 2018, 12:56 PM   #18
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Gotta watch out for these Andaman supremacists.
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Old 21st November 2018, 12:56 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
- Having said that having in 2018 an official policy of "Yeah there's just this island full of people that will kill you if you go there, so we just leave them be" seems... off to me.
Sounds perfectly normal to me. There are a lot of property owners in the US who'll shoot trespassers.
Basically, the island is like the Davidian Waco compound, except with bows. And if the Davidians had had bows, they would habe been left alone, too.
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Old 21st November 2018, 01:14 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Hmmm. Q: If landing on that island Himself, What Would Jesus Do?

A: Be immediately murdered by the natives.

I think even Jesus would be willing to give those guys a pass on religion.
Have you ever seen the North Sentinel Island version of the "missionary position"?

(lays face down in the sand)
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Old 21st November 2018, 01:18 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Have you ever seen the North Sentinel Island version of the "missionary position"?

(lays face down in the sand)
Too soon!
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Old 21st November 2018, 01:22 PM   #22
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Yeah I have no sense of timing.
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Old 21st November 2018, 01:24 PM   #23
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Now if we were to change this story from the Andaman Tribe to Orangeman's America, some of the comments in here would become quite comical and contradictory relative to their stances on boarders.
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Old 21st November 2018, 01:26 PM   #24
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It's never too soon to make jokes about racists who were shot with arrows.
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Old 21st November 2018, 01:28 PM   #25
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Old 21st November 2018, 01:36 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
A critical survival skill is the ability to take a hint. If a bunch of people have a history of murdering everyone who shows up uninvited that is a hint that the very wisest might consider indicating a possible suggestion of perhaps not receiving a thoroughly pleasant welcome there.
What sets humans apart from animals is the ability to value other things more than survival.

You're not hating on this guy because he doesn't value survival above all else. You're hating on him because he values something other than what you value.

Another distinctly human trait. You may have more in common with the Andamans than you realize.
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Old 21st November 2018, 01:41 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
You're not hating on this guy because he doesn't value survival above all else. You're hating on him because he values something other than what you value.
LOL - I'm sure TragicMonkey doesn't "hate" this man. It's not an expression of hate to point out that someone's death was immensely stupid and entirely preventable.

And I highly doubt the Sentinel islanders view the people (and helicopters, boats, etc) they attack in terms of "other races", or people with different values or whatnot.
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Old 21st November 2018, 01:46 PM   #28
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For the benefit of everyone - the particular island this incident occurred on was North Sentinel Island, and the tribe that occupies it is different from the rest of the Andaman tribes, which for the most part are no longer hostile and are visited with some regularity by documentarians, health officials, and so on. The absolute prohibition against all contact is specific to this one island and the people who live on it.
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Old 21st November 2018, 01:50 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
And I highly doubt the Sentinel islanders view the people (and helicopters, boats, etc) they attack in terms of "other races", or people with different values or whatnot.
They obviously see that he is "not one of them" right before they launch the arrows. Violent and lethal discrimination based on nothing but appearance.

You seem to be defending this behavior or are an apologist.
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Old 21st November 2018, 01:58 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Hmmm. Q: If landing on that island Himself, What Would Jesus Do?

A: Be immediately murdered by the natives.

I think even Jesus would be willing to give those guys a pass on religion.
No he would not. His body would lie on the beach for three days then he would rise from the dead and there might well be doubters amongst the indigenous people who would wish to touch his wounds, before they believed.

I put it to you that this man, was shot with arrows, his body lay there on the beach for three days but now is gone. When he walked out to his martyrdom was there just one set of footprints on the beach? Exactly when and where did you expect the second coming. Are these isolated people not deserving of grace? All you need is faith.

Who would have brought the saviour to his people but poor local fishermen?

This reminds me of a Ray Bradbury story 'The Man'.
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Old 21st November 2018, 02:07 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
They obviously see that he is "not one of them" right before they launch the arrows. Violent and lethal discrimination based on nothing but appearance.

You seem to be defending this behavior or are an apologist.
From what I've read about this group, my impression is that they react with visible hostility to any approaching craft, well before they are able to discern the appearance of any occupants. There is no question that they have divided the world into "things that come from this island and things that don't", with open season called on the latter category. But while certainly in the course of killing any individual they will be able to observe physical differences, there's nothing to suggest they take any particular note of them or that it's these "racial" differences that provoke the hostility.

While the Sentinel islanders look the same as other Andaman tribes, it has been observed that their language is unique and completely unrelated to the languages of the rest of the Andamans. This seems to suggest that the Sentinel islanders have been hostile to and isolated from even their racially-identical neighbors for a prolonged period of time - hundreds of years, maybe even longer.
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Old 21st November 2018, 02:15 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
A critical survival skill is the ability to take a hint. If a bunch of people have a history of murdering everyone who shows up uninvited that is a hint that the very wisest might consider indicating a possible suggestion of perhaps not receiving a thoroughly pleasant welcome there.
So if we kill people crossing the border illegally, they might get the hint and go through legal channels? Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.
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Old 21st November 2018, 02:18 PM   #33
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Wow people are seeing a lot of their own social baggage in the story about an uncontacted, isolated pre-stone age tribe.

Do dog whistles have different frequencies or does it become confusing if you blow a bunch of them at once?
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Old 21st November 2018, 02:28 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Wow people are seeing a lot of their own social baggage in the story about an uncontacted, isolated pre-stone age tribe.

Do dog whistles have different frequencies or does it become confusing if you blow a bunch of them at once?
While the anthropological aspect is interesting on its own, it is difficult to avoid social commentary given the story involves someone attempting to spread western religion to an unwelcoming and isolated population. The analogies to modern sovereignty, nationalism, border enforcement, etc. came quite naturally.
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Old 21st November 2018, 02:32 PM   #35
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Honestly I think his intent to spread religion is mostly irrelevant trivia. Others have been attacked for trying to get film footage, or because their boat engine broke and they helplessly drifted too close. It's not as if the islanders took offense at his "message", or his intentions.
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Old 21st November 2018, 02:33 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
It's not as if the islanders took offense at his "message".
I'd be shocked if the even heard it or were aware he had "a message."

I really doubt he got to the "Break out the Chick Tracts" part of the checklist.
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Old 21st November 2018, 03:01 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Yeah, but their eternal souls are at risk. Certain strains of evangelical Christians believe that accepting Jesus is necessary for eternal bliss. The poor fellows don't even have the option, not knowing the Good News. How sad that they are doomed to eternal hellfire, someone should help them.

Chalk up another win for good intentions.
Which again shows the true level of compassion that they believe their god has.

It's hardly an original observation to point out the unjust thinking behind dooming someone to hellfire for eternity simply because nobody got round to telling them about Jesus.
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Old 21st November 2018, 03:01 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Worm View Post
It's not so much 'they will kill you if you go there' (although no doubt that's part of it)

The real concern is that if we go there - they will die. They likely have no immunity whatsoever to a range of diseases and would be wiped out very quickly.
I do have to wonder about the genetic background of people on the island.

They have a small population base (Less than 500 people, maybe even as low as a few dozen, especially after the tsunami.) No outside contact and probably no outside genetic material for generations has probably lead to a significant amount of inbreeding.
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Old 21st November 2018, 03:06 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
They obviously see that he is "not one of them" right before they launch the arrows. Violent and lethal discrimination based on nothing but appearance.

You seem to be defending this behavior or are an apologist.
The islanders have lived pretty much the same way for probably centuries.

Their actions are not morally acceptable according to today's society. But frankly I don't see any easy way to deal with the situation that doesn't hold the risk of causing even more problems.
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Old 21st November 2018, 03:11 PM   #40
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Maybe in ancient times they were exiled to the island because they were jerks who stereotyped others and were racists.
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