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Old 21st November 2018, 03:19 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Maybe in ancient times they were exiled to the island because they were jerks who stereotyped others and were racists.
Do any of them have orange hair done with a comb-over?
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Old 21st November 2018, 03:26 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What sets humans apart from animals is the ability to value other things more than survival.

You're not hating on this guy because he doesn't value survival above all else. You're hating on him because he values something other than what you value.

Another distinctly human trait. You may have more in common with the Andamans than you realize.
I'm not "hating on" (what an odious misuse of the English language!) the guy, I'm simply pointing out that a critical survival skill for any human is the ability to take a hint. If someone isn't interested in survival then of course they are free to commit suicidal acts of idiocy.

They are also free to smoke, eat badly, smuggle drugs through one of the countries that gives the death penalty for that, and walk downtown in St Louis at two in the morning with a big bag of money. I will not compliment anybody doing those things with having great survival sense, however.

And the "Andamans" is the name of the entire island group, not the tribe of people living on a couple of those islands.
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Old 21st November 2018, 03:28 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
No he would not. His body would lie on the beach for three days then he would rise from the dead and there might well be doubters amongst the indigenous people who would wish to touch his wounds, before they believed.

I put it to you that this man, was shot with arrows, his body lay there on the beach for three days but now is gone. When he walked out to his martyrdom was there just one set of footprints on the beach? Exactly when and where did you expect the second coming. Are these isolated people not deserving of grace? All you need is faith.

Who would have brought the saviour to his people but poor local fishermen?

This reminds me of a Ray Bradbury story 'The Man'.
When he did it before, Jesus was in a dark tomb for three days. I submit to you that, like any other vampire, Jesus requires darkness to regenerate. Direct sunlight on a tropical beach would inhibit his necromantical sorceries, as Paul pointed out to the Galatians in one of the letters everyone mostly skims.
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Old 21st November 2018, 03:30 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Honestly I think his intent to spread religion is mostly irrelevant trivia. Others have been attacked for trying to get film footage, or because their boat engine broke and they helplessly drifted too close. It's not as if the islanders took offense at his "message", or his intentions.
Indeed. The survival hint he lacked was "don't go there", not anything more specific about whatever reason he imagined he should go there. Motive is irrelevant when the behavior is suicidally lunatic.
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Old 21st November 2018, 03:49 PM   #45
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BBC says that the dead guy had been to this island four or five times previously.
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Old 21st November 2018, 04:15 PM   #46
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If that's true (dubious), this must've been his first encounter with the residents.

There also may be some confusion as to what "visit" means. The fishermen who transported him said he visited the island two days before his death, but they were unable to land at that time. Perhaps there were previous attempts; or the police may be conflating his visits to other islands in the chain.
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Old 21st November 2018, 05:28 PM   #47
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Here is the original source for the "five times" claim. It does indeed say that he visited the archipelago five times, not that he visited this specific island.
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Old 21st November 2018, 05:47 PM   #48
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It seems they've been there for 60,000 years so obviously whatever they're doing works.
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Old 21st November 2018, 06:09 PM   #49
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A well-meaning Christian man is dead, and members of ISF just crack jokes about the retard.
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Old 21st November 2018, 07:12 PM   #50
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After further reading about this guy, it might not be accurate to call him a missionary. His occupation was paramedic and it seems his hobby was adventure travel. Maybe further information will explain things better.

I'm curious what his plans were for eventually leaving the island. The fishermen brought him close and then he took a small canoe to the shore. When and how was he to leave? Did he ask the fishermen to pick him up at a later designated time?
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Old 21st November 2018, 07:30 PM   #51
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If he had done any reading or asked questions about this island or tribe he would have known that nobody speaks their language and not even close. He went alone. How was he expecting to communicate at all, let alone convert them to Christianity?
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Old 21st November 2018, 07:36 PM   #52
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It seems possible that the reason he went there was because of psychosis or delusion. The record on this tribe is quite clear concerning their lethality. Your survival after doing what he did is not even really a maybe thing.
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Old 21st November 2018, 08:04 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
If he had done any reading or asked questions about this island or tribe he would have known that nobody speaks their language and not even close. He went alone. How was he expecting to communicate at all, let alone convert them to Christianity?
Logical problems aside, there certainly are Christian groups who obviously feel they should be allowed to go to North Sentinel Island and bring the islanders to Jesus. It's impossible to know whether our Tourist In Question was familiar with the particular group I linked, but it's difficult to believe that's the only group with those opinions.

Christians have long believed that God will spontaneously facilitate communication between missionaries and uncontacted peoples whose language the missionary does not know; Jesus granted that very same magical power to his disciples after his resurrection and ascension to Heaven in the Gospels. Early America Colonial lore is peppered with tall tales of priests who went to deliver Christianity to the Indians and were surprised to learn that the natives already understood Spanish/English/Welsh as appropriate (although these stories of course served a secondary purpose of helping to corroborate rightful domain of contested lands).
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Old 21st November 2018, 08:19 PM   #54
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Never mind what I said about him not being a missionary. He was.

Daily Mail has a copy of a letter he wrote his family from offshore of this island. He had gone ashore and was attacked. A "kid" shot an arrow which hit his Bible. He fled back to the fisher boat and wrote to his family about the attack and that he would go back. He didn't want to die but also didn't fear his own death because Jesus. The next day he returned and was killed.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ly-killed.html
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Old 22nd November 2018, 03:53 AM   #55
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He shouldn't have been there in the first place. The Indian government has declared these islands off limits as the Sentinels have quite clearly indicated that they did not need any interference. There are laws that declare them a protected tribe and and prevents interference from tourists and people from the mainland. He bribed fisherment to take him there. Frankly he got what he deserved.
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Old 22nd November 2018, 04:11 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
A critical survival skill is the ability to take a hint. If a bunch of people have a history of murdering everyone who shows up uninvited that is a hint that the very wisest might consider indicating a possible suggestion of perhaps not receiving a thoroughly pleasant welcome there.
It goes beyond hint and even beyond "raging clue". The initial reports over here were from the South Asian (Indian Subcontinent) press. The fishermen were defending themselves saying it's what he wanted to do, and that he actually came back to the boat in his shot up canoe and after being shot, himself, by arrows... and he wanted to go back.

The Indian government also says pay no never mind to the claptrap about him being an adventurer/tourist. He took out a tourist visa because they don't issue a Suicidally Delusional God Botherer visa.
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Old 22nd November 2018, 04:46 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
When he did it before, Jesus was in a dark tomb for three days. I submit to you that, like any other vampire, Jesus requires darkness to regenerate. Direct sunlight on a tropical beach would inhibit his necromantical sorceries, as Paul pointed out to the Galatians in one of the letters everyone mostly skims.
Jesus was a Lich not a Vampire. Magic user who brought himself back from the dead: Lich. That also explains his various powers, operation in daylight and the Roman Catholic Church as a front for this powerful undead's operations.
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Old 22nd November 2018, 06:13 AM   #58
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This sounds like Jonestown or Waco. As such, there could be an argument that members of the tribe are being denied against their free will to leave.
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Old 22nd November 2018, 06:36 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
This sounds like Jonestown or Waco. As such, there could be an argument that members of the tribe are being denied against their free will to leave.
And you have evidence for this view?

Perhaps someone should go and do a poll of the islanders?
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Old 22nd November 2018, 06:42 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
And you have evidence for this view?

Perhaps someone should go and do a poll of the islanders?
I didn't make a claim other than it sounded like a previous event.

It sounds like the death of Leo Ryan.
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Old 22nd November 2018, 06:48 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Never mind what I said about him not being a missionary. He was.

Daily Mail has a copy of a letter he wrote his family from offshore of this island. He had gone ashore and was attacked. A "kid" shot an arrow which hit his Bible. He fled back to the fisher boat and wrote to his family about the attack and that he would go back. He didn't want to die but also didn't fear his own death because Jesus. The next day he returned and was killed.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ly-killed.html
His bible stopped an arrow; it's a miracle! Shame about all the other arrows really.
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Old 22nd November 2018, 06:49 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I didn't make a claim other than it sounded like a previous event.

It sounds like the death of Leo Ryan.
You are aware these people are uncontacted, right? And that that is a different thing from a group of people choosing to isolate themselves and taking their dependents with them?

As none of them have any concept, at all, of what might lie beyond the bounds of their island I think it's a fair bet none of them are in a mad panic to get away from it.
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Old 22nd November 2018, 06:54 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by PursuedByABear View Post
You are aware these people are uncontacted, right? And that that is a different thing from a group of people choosing to isolate themselves and taking their dependents with them?

As none of them have any concept, at all, of what might lie beyond the bounds of their island I think it's a fair bet none of them are in a mad panic to get away from it.
It makes no difference to what rights I assign the individual.
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Old 22nd November 2018, 07:25 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
...is a politely accepted untruth. The real reason contact with this particular tribe is illegal is because they are murderously hostile to anyone who visits.

Well, no, it's actually not an untruth. And the two reasons are not mutually exclusive.

In fact, the threat of outside diseases is a very good reason not to contact isolated populations like the Sentinel islanders. There is a long history of small groups of isolated peoples being devestated or entirely wiped out by diseases brought by outsiders, well into the latter half of the 20th century, even.

Villages wiped out: why infectious diseases are so much more harmful to isolated peoples

And while the Sentinel islanders have a history of profound and violent xenophobia, it's not entirely unjustified. There have been incidents of attempted invasion by other island tribes, and at least one incident of kidnapping and attempted conversion of people from the island by British colonialists during their occupation of India. The last attempt to do so included a child who was eventually returned to the island, and an elderly man who died of a disease that they had never been exposed to.

Originally Posted by PursuedByABear View Post
As none of them have any concept, at all, of what might lie beyond the bounds of their island I think it's a fair bet none of them are in a mad panic to get away from it.

Not entirely true, actually, they do have some idea what lies beyond the island, see above.
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Old 22nd November 2018, 08:02 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Well, no, it's actually not an untruth. And the two reasons are not mutually exclusive.

In fact, the threat of outside diseases is a very good reason not to contact isolated populations like the Sentinel islanders. There is a long history of small groups of isolated peoples being devestated or entirely wiped out by diseases brought by outsiders, well into the latter half of the 20th century, even.

Villages wiped out: why infectious diseases are so much more harmful to isolated peoples
The natives of the other Andaman islands, in particular, have been decimated many times over by new diseases. (eg)

The killing could be classed as self defense.
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Old 22nd November 2018, 08:06 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I didn't make a claim other than it sounded like a previous event.

It sounds like the death of Leo Ryan.
Waco was the first western analogue I thought of, too, but I don't think the death of LR is comparable.
Jones was part of the same society and culture as LR. He must have recognized LR as a threat to his personal power. We simply don't know what motives the Sentinelese had. They might even know about the disease threat.
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Old 22nd November 2018, 08:13 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I didn't make a claim other than it sounded like a previous event.

It sounds like the death of Leo Ryan.
I didn't say you made a claim.
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Old 22nd November 2018, 08:16 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I didn't say you made a claim.
I only have to present evidence for claims I make. When you asked for evidence, I'm making clear the only piece I'm required to present evidence for.
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Old 22nd November 2018, 08:36 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post



Quote:
'I regret I began to panic slightly as I saw them string arrows in their bows. I picked up the fish and threw it toward them. They kept coming.

A delusional religious fanatic assaults a group of children with a fish, and we're complaining that the kids defended themselves?

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Old 22nd November 2018, 08:49 AM   #70
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I cannot understand why the kid did not shoot the arrow at the fish. It's an unusual tribe for sure.
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Old 22nd November 2018, 08:51 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I only have to present evidence for claims I make. When you asked for evidence, I'm making clear the only piece I'm required to present evidence for.
You are not required to present evidence for any claim.
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Old 22nd November 2018, 09:00 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
You are not required to present evidence for any claim.
Not by you
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Old 22nd November 2018, 09:01 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Not by you
That is correct.
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Old 22nd November 2018, 09:03 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
Frankly he got what he deserved.

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Old 22nd November 2018, 09:09 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I cannot understand why the kid did not shoot the arrow at the fish. It's an unusual tribe for sure.
Maybe this will start a spinoff religion. Instead of the sign of the cross, the congregants will all clasp their hands to an imaginary arrow wound in their chest and make as if to fall over.
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Old 22nd November 2018, 09:17 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
This sounds like Jonestown or Waco.
No, really, it doesn't.
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Old 22nd November 2018, 09:20 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
It sounds like the death of Leo Ryan.
In what conceivable way, apart from the fact that they both died?
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Old 22nd November 2018, 09:28 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I cannot understand why the kid did not shoot the arrow at the fish. It's an unusual tribe for sure.


Look, not even North Sentinelese police officers can be trained to reliably shoot a fish out of a delusional religious fanatic's hand, and you expect a child to do it? Pshaw!
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Old 22nd November 2018, 09:30 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Maybe this will start a spinoff religion. Instead of the sign of the cross, the congregants will all clasp their hands to an imaginary arrow wound in their chest and make as if to fall over.


No, they already have some crowd claiming that "fishers of men" line.
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Old 22nd November 2018, 09:43 AM   #80
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This is why we need bow and arrow control.
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