The Endangered Andamans tribe - Page 5

sadhatter · 24th November 2018, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

A critical survival skill is the ability to take a hint. If a bunch of people have a history of murdering everyone who shows up uninvited that is a hint that the very wisest might consider indicating a possible suggestion of perhaps not receiving a thoroughly pleasant welcome there.

I'd bet some folks in the deep south would agree fully with that statement.

sadhatter · 24th November 2018, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by Susheel

He shouldn't have been there in the first place. The Indian government has declared these islands off limits as the Sentinels have quite clearly indicated that they did not need any interference. There are laws that declare them a protected tribe and and prevents interference from tourists and people from the mainland. He bribed fisherment to take him there. Frankly he got what he deserved.

Lesson being,if you really don't like outsiders is okay to kill them on sight.

BobTheCoward · 24th November 2018, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by Darat

Who said they claim sovereignty?

India does

fagin · 24th November 2018, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by Darat

Who said they claim sovereignty?

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

India does

Um.

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

I would have to see that argument from an expert in Indian law.

Checkmite · 24th November 2018, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

It is weird that they claim sovereignty.

Claiming sovereignty would be a neat trick, since they can't be meaningfully communicated with.

The Indian government has chosen to treat them as a sort of independent protectorate.

BobTheCoward · 24th November 2018, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by fagin

Um.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sentinel_Island

Quote:

Nominally, the island belongs to the South Andaman administrative district, part of the Indian union territory of Andaman and Nicobar Islands.[11] In practice, Indian authorities recognise the islanders' desire to be left alone and restrict their role to remote monitoring; they do not prosecute them for killing non-Sentinelese people.[12][13] The island is in effect a sovereign area under Indian protection.

Checkmite · 24th November 2018, 01:28 PM

Presumably you are able to understand the distinction between a choice made by India versus the islanders "declaring sovereignty".

BobTheCoward · 24th November 2018, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Checkmite

Claiming sovereignty would be a neat trick, since they can't be meaningfully communicated with.

The Indian government has chosen to treat them as a sort of independent protectorate.

India claims sovereignty of the island to the world.

ugot2bekidding · 24th November 2018, 01:33 PM

As a missionary, why would you go to such a low-population area to gain converts? Unless you're just trying to show your willingness to go into the lion's den for Christ, in other words..ego. He could have stayed in the west and had access to a lot more potential converts. And anyway, if there is anyone that would get a free pass from the big guy/gal upstairs it would have to be isolated tribes no? Assuming God isn't a complete dick...

BobTheCoward · 24th November 2018, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by Checkmite

Presumably you are able to understand the distinction between a choice made by India versus the islanders "declaring sovereignty".

I didn't say the tribe claimed sovereignty. I said they (India) did.

BobTheCoward · 24th November 2018, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by ugot2bekidding

As a missionary, why would you go to such a low-population area to gain converts? Unless you're just trying to show your willingness to go into the lion's den for Christ, in other words..ego. He could have stayed in the west and had access to a lot more potential converts. And anyway, if there is anyone that would get a free pass from the big guy/gal upstairs it would have to be isolated tribes no? Assuming God isn't a complete dick...

They receive no pass in the doctrine.

Vixen · 24th November 2018, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by Darat

And did they ever agree to be part of India? I'd want to see the sealed and witnessed documents in which they signed over their sovereignty to India before I accept they should be subject to Indian laws.

Did the Welsh ever agree to be part of the UK?

Mike! · 24th November 2018, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

I didn't say the tribe claimed sovereignty. I said they (India) did.

I'd have to think the simple act of killing any and all that attempt to set foot on the island could be construed as a sort of non-verbal 'declaration of sovereignty' in its own right.

Vixen · 24th November 2018, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by ugot2bekidding

As a missionary, why would you go to such a low-population area to gain converts? Unless you're just trying to show your willingness to go into the lion's den for Christ, in other words..ego. He could have stayed in the west and had access to a lot more potential converts. And anyway, if there is anyone that would get a free pass from the big guy/gal upstairs it would have to be isolated tribes no? Assuming God isn't a complete dick...

The same reason a couple of Jesuit priests ('Silence' - lead star: Andrew Garfield) went to Japan to try to convert them.

Quote:

In the 17th century, two Portuguese Jesuit priests travel to Japan in an attempt to locate their mentor, who is rumored to have committed apostasy, and to propagate Catholicism.

IMDb

pgwenthold · 24th November 2018, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by ugot2bekidding

As a missionary, why would you go to such a low-population area to gain converts? Unless you're just trying to show your willingness to go into the lion's den for Christ, in other words..ego. He could have stayed in the west and had access to a lot more potential converts. And anyway, if there is anyone that would get a free pass from the big guy/gal upstairs it would have to be isolated tribes no? Assuming God isn't a complete dick...

It's virtue-signalling

Checkmite · 24th November 2018, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

I didn't say the tribe claimed sovereignty. I said they (India) did.

Of course India claims sovereignty; they became an independent republic with the completion of their constitution in 1950.

ugot2bekidding · 24th November 2018, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by Vixen

The same reason a couple of Jesuit priests ('Silence' - lead star: Andrew Garfield) went to Japan to try to convert them.

I'm sure there were ulterior motives, such as establishing trade routes etc. Also, japan has more than a thousand people, so that's still better, from a missionary perspective, than going to convert an isolated tribe.

Strawberry · 24th November 2018, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by Vixen

Did the Welsh ever agree to be part of the UK?

If the Welsh all ran around naked, killing anyone who set foot across the border I think you'll find UK law wouldn't be enforced much in Wales either.

Vixen · 24th November 2018, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by pgwenthold

It's virtue-signalling

When the crusaders from the eleventh century onwards spread throughout Europe they were given a mandate to convert the pagans wherever they found them.

They were made 'Knights of the Sword' and given a 'Letter of Salvation' and rust service ('rust' = equestrian).

So, in other words, it was seen as a Christian obligation to try to 'save' people.

Jehovah's Witnesses believe only those in the priesthood will be among the 144K saved, come Judgement Day, and in order to be one of the chosen, you have to have 'saved' people's souls.

I would guess the dead missionary in the Andamans had that motive.

As a martyr, he gets to lie beneath the altar in heaven with all the other martyrs (people who died for their faith) and, come the New Jerusalem, they will rise up in white robes and go marching into heaven as 'saints'.

Thermal · 24th November 2018, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by Strawberry

If the Welsh all ran around naked, killing anyone who set foot across the border I think you'll find UK law wouldn't be enforced much in Wales either.

And that is why UK law is not enforced in New Jersey.

Checkmite · 24th November 2018, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by Mike!

I'd have to think the simple act of killing any and all that attempt to set foot on the island could be construed as a sort of non-verbal 'declaration of sovereignty' in its own right.

I don't think we can say that, really. The single actually-valid point Bob has made in this thread (I think it was Bob; I could be mistaken) is that it's not known whether the islanders that defend the beach where landings are most common are representative of the entire Sentinelese population, their wishes, motives, or disposition to visitors. As big as the island is from a ground-level (sea-level?) observer's perspective, it seems to be the case that landings by outsiders can only ever be made at a few specific points due to reefs that surround most of it leaving few safe approaches for watercraft, and it may just happen that a particularly aggressive family or village guards those points.

But the problem of disease transmission remains. The whole reason the government stopped the attempted visits in the 90's is because they directly observed a nearby, more hospitable island tribe they were visiting simultaneously being decimated by diseases brought by the visiting scientists and officials.

Craig4 · 24th November 2018, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by ugot2bekidding

As a missionary, why would you go to such a low-population area to gain converts? Unless you're just trying to show your willingness to go into the lion's den for Christ, in other words..ego. He could have stayed in the west and had access to a lot more potential converts. And anyway, if there is anyone that would get a free pass from the big guy/gal upstairs it would have to be isolated tribes no? Assuming God isn't a complete dick...

He read the story of St. Sebastian but only got half-way through.

Vixen · 24th November 2018, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by Craig4

He read the story of St. Sebastian but only got half-way through.

The first martyr was Stephen.

TragicMonkey · 24th November 2018, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by Vixen

The first martyr was Stephen.

I think he was referring to the legend of St Sebastian getting shot full of arrows. Despite the popularity of the imagery in art, St Sebastian survived that incident; he was later killed by being bludgeoned to death for smarting off to Diocletian.

Civet · 24th November 2018, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by ugot2bekidding

As a missionary, why would you go to such a low-population area to gain converts? Unless you're just trying to show your willingness to go into the lion's den for Christ, in other words..ego. He could have stayed in the west and had access to a lot more potential converts. And anyway, if there is anyone that would get a free pass from the big guy/gal upstairs it would have to be isolated tribes no? Assuming God isn't a complete dick...

Based on what I've read of his background, I get the impression that the danger/adventure element was a big part of it to him. He also seemed concerned that these folks had never even had the opportunity to hear the message of Christianity unlike other folks who'd simply rejected it. If I was a religious man, I might speculate that the arrow hitting the bible during his first invasion might have been a hint from the Big Guy that this wasn't going to go well.

Vixen · 24th November 2018, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

I think he was referring to the legend of St Sebastian getting shot full of arrows. Despite the popularity of the imagery in art, St Sebastian survived that incident; he was later killed by being bludgeoned to death for smarting off to Diocletian.

If the Andaman Sentenalise have crossbows, then maybe they are not as primitive as believed.

Or did the journalists mean 'spears' (lances) when they said 'arrows'? An arrow is fletched, so that would take some skill.

Darat · 24th November 2018, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

India does

Where? Can you point to the documents?

Darat · 24th November 2018, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by Vixen

Did the Welsh ever agree to be part of the UK?

Did the rabbit bite the tortoise?

BobTheCoward · 24th November 2018, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by Darat

Where? Can you point to the documents?

I cited Wikipedia above. If that isnt sufficient, let me know and i will probably just ignore that reply.

Darat · 24th November 2018, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

I cited Wikipedia above. If that isnt sufficient, let me know and i will probably just ignore that reply.

Are you an expert in matters of the Sentinelese constitution or legal system?

William Parcher · 24th November 2018, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by Vixen

If the Andaman Sentenalise have crossbows, then maybe they are not as primitive as believed.

Or did the journalists mean 'spears' (lances) when they said 'arrows'? An arrow is fletched, so that would take some skill.

Accounts seem to describe the traditional bow and arrow, not a crossbow. They also have spears.

One old account speaks of a youngster(s) shooting an arrow without an attached point tip. This is much less lethal or not at all. It could still be used successfully on a variety of small animals.

sackett · 24th November 2018, 05:21 PM

Arrows aren't always fletched. New Guinea highlanders use unfletched shafts at times.

I rather think that there are sources on Andamanese weapons.

And on their unpleasant folkways; I know because I've read them.

I'm sorry that Jesus's little helper got killed by those ignoble savages. He didn't deserve that. A year or two in the hands of the Indian police maybe? No, he didn't deserve that either. But a warning, a fine, and a one-way ticket home? Quite proper.

The Sentinelese are hardly the first, or probably the last, isolates who can't think of anything else to do w/ an outsider than kill him. I don't wish them well, or even ill. Oblivion would probably be best.

PursuedByABear · 24th November 2018, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by Vixen

Did the Welsh ever agree to be part of the UK?

No more than Northumbria did. Wales was conquered, and made part of the Kingdom of England. Recognition of Wales as a country distinct from England has come subsequent to the 1707 Act of Union between the Kingdom of England, including Wales, and Scotland.

What we know as Wales now was never actually under the rule of any unitary authority, of course. Many Lords and Princes in Wales expressly accepted the King of England as overlord, and many did not.

BobTheCoward · 24th November 2018, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by Darat

Are you an expert in matters of the Sentinelese constitution or legal system?

No. That is why I'm not generating my own, novel conclusions on matters of law.

Craig4 · 24th November 2018, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

I think he was referring to the legend of St Sebastian getting shot full of arrows. Despite the popularity of the imagery in art, St Sebastian survived that incident; he was later killed by being bludgeoned to death for smarting off to Diocletian.

Oh thank gawd somebody got the reference. I thought the joke would be too obscure, even for this crowd.

Craig4 · 24th November 2018, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by Vixen

If the Andaman Sentenalise have crossbows, then maybe they are not as primitive as believed.

Or did the journalists mean 'spears' (lances) when they said 'arrows'? An arrow is fletched, so that would take some skill.

I'm sure that's exactly what was going through the minds of St. Sebastian and our intrepid martyr. "Hey, that's some impressive fletching on those arrows."

Craig4 · 24th November 2018, 08:46 PM

So, maybe this should go to the religion section but it seems to me that if you believe the Christian thing, going as a missionary to these people is really a dick move. As far as I remember from Catholic education, if you've never heard about how Jesus had his afternoon of gay S&M and was now everyone's savior you got a pass. If you did hear the story and rejected it, you were royally ******, like lake of fire for eternity and such.

So, let's say our boy, the dead one, sucked as a missionary. He got there, he told the story of Jesus having gay S&M sex with some Romans on a Friday afternoon and now they had to accept him as their savior. If the locals herd it, understood it and then said, that's ****** stupid go away, our missionary just damned them to Hell. These people were fine without knowing about Jesus and the gay S&M. If you really cared about the natives, why not leave them alone instead of risking them not believing you?

BobTheCoward · 24th November 2018, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by Craig4

So, maybe this should go to the religion section but it seems to me that if you believe the Christian thing, going as a missionary to these people is really a dick move. As far as I remember from Catholic education, if you've never heard about how Jesus had his afternoon of gay S&M and was now everyone's savior you got a pass. If you did hear the story and rejected it, you were royally ******, like lake of fire for eternity and such.

So, let's say our boy, the dead one, sucked as a missionary. He got there, he told the story of Jesus having gay S&M sex with some Romans on a Friday afternoon and now they had to accept him as their savior. If the locals herd it, understood it and then said, that's ****** stupid go away, our missionary just damned them to Hell. These people were fine without knowing about Jesus and the gay S&M. If you really cared about the natives, why not leave them alone instead of risking them not believing you?

Are you talking about Limbo or something?

JoeMorgue · 24th November 2018, 09:10 PM

Okay Bob I have zero faith any of this is going to make it through your "cause purity" mental force field... but in the real world not every battle is worth having and real humans making real decisions with real human brains have to sometimes weight the pros and cons of actual actions in the actual real world on a level beyond "Fetishistic Purity to Bob's Arbitrarily Categorized Ways of Thinking" and making sure they are the purest of the pure (Insert philosophical, social, or political label here) isn't always the only thing that matters

This is a tiny (less then 400), incredibly isolated tribe that probably wouldn't survive sustained contact with the outside world. Even a moral victory would be a Pyrrhic one.

Yes, as I said back on page one of a this thread, back when it was fresh faced and youthful and as yet untainted by your Bobbing, having to just leave them to their devices does sort of suck and is a less than ideal solution but those happen in that pesky "real world" you never deign to factor into your insane ramblings.

Civet · 24th November 2018, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by Craig4

So, maybe this should go to the religion section but it seems to me that if you believe the Christian thing, going as a missionary to these people is really a dick move. As far as I remember from Catholic education, if you've never heard about how Jesus had his afternoon of gay S&M and was now everyone's savior you got a pass. If you did hear the story and rejected it, you were royally ******, like lake of fire for eternity and such.

So, let's say our boy, the dead one, sucked as a missionary. He got there, he told the story of Jesus having gay S&M sex with some Romans on a Friday afternoon and now they had to accept him as their savior. If the locals herd it, understood it and then said, that's ****** stupid go away, our missionary just damned them to Hell. These people were fine without knowing about Jesus and the gay S&M. If you really cared about the natives, why not leave them alone instead of risking them not believing you?

I haven't seen a specific reference to his denomination, but I'd wager that he was some flavor of evangelical (I'm basing that on the man's quotes and his educational background) and likely wouldn't have subscribed to the Catholic idea about limbo for those ignorant of the gospel.

24th November 2018, 12:59 PM	#161
sadhatter Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 8,189	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey A critical survival skill is the ability to take a hint. If a bunch of people have a history of murdering everyone who shows up uninvited that is a hint that the very wisest might consider indicating a possible suggestion of perhaps not receiving a thoroughly pleasant welcome there. I'd bet some folks in the deep south would agree fully with that statement.
sadhatter Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 8,189

24th November 2018, 01:02 PM	#162
sadhatter Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 8,189	Originally Posted by Susheel He shouldn't have been there in the first place. The Indian government has declared these islands off limits as the Sentinels have quite clearly indicated that they did not need any interference. There are laws that declare them a protected tribe and and prevents interference from tourists and people from the mainland. He bribed fisherment to take him there. Frankly he got what he deserved. Lesson being,if you really don't like outsiders is okay to kill them on sight.
sadhatter Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 8,189

24th November 2018, 01:12 PM	#164
fagin Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: As far away from casebro as possible. Posts: 7,047	Originally Posted by Darat Who said they claim sovereignty? Originally Posted by BobTheCoward India does Um. Originally Posted by BobTheCoward I would have to see that argument from an expert in Indian law.
	__________________ There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda

24th November 2018, 01:20 PM	#165
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist TLA Winner Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Gulf Coast Posts: 22,805	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward It is weird that they claim sovereignty. Claiming sovereignty would be a neat trick, since they can't be meaningfully communicated with. The Indian government has chosen to treat them as a sort of independent protectorate.
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002

24th November 2018, 01:28 PM	#167
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist TLA Winner Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Gulf Coast Posts: 22,805	Presumably you are able to understand the distinction between a choice made by India versus the islanders "declaring sovereignty".
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002

24th November 2018, 01:06 PM	#163
BobTheCoward Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 15,687	Originally Posted by Darat Who said they claim sovereignty? India does

24th November 2018, 01:26 PM	#166
BobTheCoward Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 15,687	Originally Posted by fagin Um. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sentinel_Island Quote: Nominally, the island belongs to the South Andaman administrative district, part of the Indian union territory of Andaman and Nicobar Islands.[11] In practice, Indian authorities recognise the islanders' desire to be left alone and restrict their role to remote monitoring; they do not prosecute them for killing non-Sentinelese people.[12][13] The island is in effect a sovereign area under Indian protection.

24th November 2018, 01:32 PM	#168
BobTheCoward Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 15,687	Originally Posted by Checkmite Claiming sovereignty would be a neat trick, since they can't be meaningfully communicated with. The Indian government has chosen to treat them as a sort of independent protectorate. India claims sovereignty of the island to the world.

24th November 2018, 01:33 PM	#169
ugot2bekidding Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 1,128	As a missionary, why would you go to such a low-population area to gain converts? Unless you're just trying to show your willingness to go into the lion's den for Christ, in other words..ego. He could have stayed in the west and had access to a lot more potential converts. And anyway, if there is anyone that would get a free pass from the big guy/gal upstairs it would have to be isolated tribes no? Assuming God isn't a complete dick...

24th November 2018, 01:33 PM	#170
BobTheCoward Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 15,687	Originally Posted by Checkmite Presumably you are able to understand the distinction between a choice made by India versus the islanders "declaring sovereignty". I didn't say the tribe claimed sovereignty. I said they (India) did.

24th November 2018, 01:34 PM	#171
BobTheCoward Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 15,687	Originally Posted by ugot2bekidding As a missionary, why would you go to such a low-population area to gain converts? Unless you're just trying to show your willingness to go into the lion's den for Christ, in other words..ego. He could have stayed in the west and had access to a lot more potential converts. And anyway, if there is anyone that would get a free pass from the big guy/gal upstairs it would have to be isolated tribes no? Assuming God isn't a complete dick... They receive no pass in the doctrine.

24th November 2018, 01:42 PM	#172
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Moomin Valley Posts: 14,906	Originally Posted by Darat And did they ever agree to be part of India? I'd want to see the sealed and witnessed documents in which they signed over their sovereignty to India before I accept they should be subject to Indian laws. Did the Welsh ever agree to be part of the UK?
	__________________ If man has no tea in him, he is incapable of understanding truth and beauty. ~ Japanese Proverb

24th November 2018, 01:48 PM	#173
Mike! Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it! Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not! Posts: 30,808	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward I didn't say the tribe claimed sovereignty. I said they (India) did. I'd have to think the simple act of killing any and all that attempt to set foot on the island could be construed as a sort of non-verbal 'declaration of sovereignty' in its own right.
	__________________ "Never judge a man until you’ve walked a mile in his shoes... Because then it won't really matter, you’ll be a mile away and have his shoes." Last edited by Mike!; 24th November 2018 at 01:51 PM.

24th November 2018, 01:48 PM	#174
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Moomin Valley Posts: 14,906	Originally Posted by ugot2bekidding As a missionary, why would you go to such a low-population area to gain converts? Unless you're just trying to show your willingness to go into the lion's den for Christ, in other words..ego. He could have stayed in the west and had access to a lot more potential converts. And anyway, if there is anyone that would get a free pass from the big guy/gal upstairs it would have to be isolated tribes no? Assuming God isn't a complete dick... The same reason a couple of Jesuit priests ('Silence' - lead star: Andrew Garfield) went to Japan to try to convert them. Quote: In the 17th century, two Portuguese Jesuit priests travel to Japan in an attempt to locate their mentor, who is rumored to have committed apostasy, and to propagate Catholicism. IMDb
	__________________ If man has no tea in him, he is incapable of understanding truth and beauty. ~ Japanese Proverb

24th November 2018, 01:50 PM	#175
pgwenthold Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 17,691	Originally Posted by ugot2bekidding As a missionary, why would you go to such a low-population area to gain converts? Unless you're just trying to show your willingness to go into the lion's den for Christ, in other words..ego. He could have stayed in the west and had access to a lot more potential converts. And anyway, if there is anyone that would get a free pass from the big guy/gal upstairs it would have to be isolated tribes no? Assuming God isn't a complete dick... It's virtue-signalling
	__________________ "As your friend, I have to be honest with you: I don't care about you or your problems" - Gidget, Secret Life of Pets

24th November 2018, 01:54 PM	#176
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist TLA Winner Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Gulf Coast Posts: 22,805	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward I didn't say the tribe claimed sovereignty. I said they (India) did. Of course India claims sovereignty; they became an independent republic with the completion of their constitution in 1950.
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002

24th November 2018, 01:56 PM	#177
ugot2bekidding Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 1,128	Originally Posted by Vixen The same reason a couple of Jesuit priests ('Silence' - lead star: Andrew Garfield) went to Japan to try to convert them. I'm sure there were ulterior motives, such as establishing trade routes etc. Also, japan has more than a thousand people, so that's still better, from a missionary perspective, than going to convert an isolated tribe.

24th November 2018, 01:58 PM	#178
Strawberry Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 1,964	Originally Posted by Vixen Did the Welsh ever agree to be part of the UK? If the Welsh all ran around naked, killing anyone who set foot across the border I think you'll find UK law wouldn't be enforced much in Wales either.

24th November 2018, 01:59 PM	#179
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Moomin Valley Posts: 14,906	Originally Posted by pgwenthold It's virtue-signalling When the crusaders from the eleventh century onwards spread throughout Europe they were given a mandate to convert the pagans wherever they found them. They were made 'Knights of the Sword' and given a 'Letter of Salvation' and rust service ('rust' = equestrian). So, in other words, it was seen as a Christian obligation to try to 'save' people. Jehovah's Witnesses believe only those in the priesthood will be among the 144K saved, come Judgement Day, and in order to be one of the chosen, you have to have 'saved' people's souls. I would guess the dead missionary in the Andamans had that motive. As a martyr, he gets to lie beneath the altar in heaven with all the other martyrs (people who died for their faith) and, come the New Jerusalem, they will rise up in white robes and go marching into heaven as 'saints'.
	__________________ If man has no tea in him, he is incapable of understanding truth and beauty. ~ Japanese Proverb

24th November 2018, 02:02 PM	#180
Thermal Philosopher Pither Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: NJ USA. We Don't Like You Either Posts: 6,400	Originally Posted by Strawberry If the Welsh all ran around naked, killing anyone who set foot across the border I think you'll find UK law wouldn't be enforced much in Wales either. And that is why UK law is not enforced in New Jersey.
	__________________ "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet

24th November 2018, 02:09 PM	#181
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist TLA Winner Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Gulf Coast Posts: 22,805	Originally Posted by Mike! I'd have to think the simple act of killing any and all that attempt to set foot on the island could be construed as a sort of non-verbal 'declaration of sovereignty' in its own right. I don't think we can say that, really. The single actually-valid point Bob has made in this thread (I think it was Bob; I could be mistaken) is that it's not known whether the islanders that defend the beach where landings are most common are representative of the entire Sentinelese population, their wishes, motives, or disposition to visitors. As big as the island is from a ground-level (sea-level?) observer's perspective, it seems to be the case that landings by outsiders can only ever be made at a few specific points due to reefs that surround most of it leaving few safe approaches for watercraft, and it may just happen that a particularly aggressive family or village guards those points. But the problem of disease transmission remains. The whole reason the government stopped the attempted visits in the 90's is because they directly observed a nearby, more hospitable island tribe they were visiting simultaneously being decimated by diseases brought by the visiting scientists and officials.
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002

24th November 2018, 02:33 PM	#182
Craig4 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Alexandria, VA Home to the Deep State. Posts: 17,623	Originally Posted by ugot2bekidding As a missionary, why would you go to such a low-population area to gain converts? Unless you're just trying to show your willingness to go into the lion's den for Christ, in other words..ego. He could have stayed in the west and had access to a lot more potential converts. And anyway, if there is anyone that would get a free pass from the big guy/gal upstairs it would have to be isolated tribes no? Assuming God isn't a complete dick... He read the story of St. Sebastian but only got half-way through.

24th November 2018, 02:46 PM	#183
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Moomin Valley Posts: 14,906	Originally Posted by Craig4 He read the story of St. Sebastian but only got half-way through. The first martyr was Stephen.
	__________________ If man has no tea in him, he is incapable of understanding truth and beauty. ~ Japanese Proverb

24th November 2018, 03:17 PM	#184
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles PITH Winner Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 47,344	Originally Posted by Vixen The first martyr was Stephen. I think he was referring to the legend of St Sebastian getting shot full of arrows. Despite the popularity of the imagery in art, St Sebastian survived that incident; he was later killed by being bludgeoned to death for smarting off to Diocletian.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

24th November 2018, 04:06 PM	#185
Civet Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,637	Originally Posted by ugot2bekidding As a missionary, why would you go to such a low-population area to gain converts? Unless you're just trying to show your willingness to go into the lion's den for Christ, in other words..ego. He could have stayed in the west and had access to a lot more potential converts. And anyway, if there is anyone that would get a free pass from the big guy/gal upstairs it would have to be isolated tribes no? Assuming God isn't a complete dick... Based on what I've read of his background, I get the impression that the danger/adventure element was a big part of it to him. He also seemed concerned that these folks had never even had the opportunity to hear the message of Christianity unlike other folks who'd simply rejected it. If I was a religious man, I might speculate that the arrow hitting the bible during his first invasion might have been a hint from the Big Guy that this wasn't going to go well.
Civet Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,637

24th November 2018, 04:31 PM	#186
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Moomin Valley Posts: 14,906	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey I think he was referring to the legend of St Sebastian getting shot full of arrows. Despite the popularity of the imagery in art, St Sebastian survived that incident; he was later killed by being bludgeoned to death for smarting off to Diocletian. If the Andaman Sentenalise have crossbows, then maybe they are not as primitive as believed. Or did the journalists mean 'spears' (lances) when they said 'arrows'? An arrow is fletched, so that would take some skill.
	__________________ If man has no tea in him, he is incapable of understanding truth and beauty. ~ Japanese Proverb

24th November 2018, 04:43 PM	#187
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 84,715	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward India does Where? Can you point to the documents?
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

24th November 2018, 04:44 PM	#188
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 84,715	Originally Posted by Vixen Did the Welsh ever agree to be part of the UK? Did the rabbit bite the tortoise?
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

24th November 2018, 04:49 PM	#189
BobTheCoward Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 15,687	Originally Posted by Darat Where? Can you point to the documents? I cited Wikipedia above. If that isnt sufficient, let me know and i will probably just ignore that reply.

24th November 2018, 04:58 PM	#190
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 84,715	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward I cited Wikipedia above. If that isnt sufficient, let me know and i will probably just ignore that reply. Are you an expert in matters of the Sentinelese constitution or legal system?
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

24th November 2018, 05:05 PM	#191
William Parcher Show me the monkey! Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 21,461	Originally Posted by Vixen If the Andaman Sentenalise have crossbows, then maybe they are not as primitive as believed. Or did the journalists mean 'spears' (lances) when they said 'arrows'? An arrow is fletched, so that would take some skill. Accounts seem to describe the traditional bow and arrow, not a crossbow. They also have spears. One old account speaks of a youngster(s) shooting an arrow without an attached point tip. This is much less lethal or not at all. It could still be used successfully on a variety of small animals.
	__________________ Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.

24th November 2018, 05:21 PM	#192
sackett Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Detroit Posts: 5,356	Arrows aren't always fletched. New Guinea highlanders use unfletched shafts at times. I rather think that there are sources on Andamanese weapons. And on their unpleasant folkways; I know because I've read them. I'm sorry that Jesus's little helper got killed by those ignoble savages. He didn't deserve that. A year or two in the hands of the Indian police maybe? No, he didn't deserve that either. But a warning, a fine, and a one-way ticket home? Quite proper. The Sentinelese are hardly the first, or probably the last, isolates who can't think of anything else to do w/ an outsider than kill him. I don't wish them well, or even ill. Oblivion would probably be best.
	__________________ Fill the seats of justice with good men; not so absolute in goodness as to forget what human frailty is. -- Thomas Jefferson What region of the earth is not filled with our calamities? -- Virgil

24th November 2018, 05:42 PM	#193
PursuedByABear Scholar Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 120	Originally Posted by Vixen Did the Welsh ever agree to be part of the UK? No more than Northumbria did. Wales was conquered, and made part of the Kingdom of England. Recognition of Wales as a country distinct from England has come subsequent to the 1707 Act of Union between the Kingdom of England, including Wales, and Scotland. What we know as Wales now was never actually under the rule of any unitary authority, of course. Many Lords and Princes in Wales expressly accepted the King of England as overlord, and many did not.
PursuedByABear Scholar Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 120

24th November 2018, 06:20 PM	#194
BobTheCoward Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 15,687	Originally Posted by Darat Are you an expert in matters of the Sentinelese constitution or legal system? No. That is why I'm not generating my own, novel conclusions on matters of law.

24th November 2018, 08:21 PM	#195
Craig4 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Alexandria, VA Home to the Deep State. Posts: 17,623	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey I think he was referring to the legend of St Sebastian getting shot full of arrows. Despite the popularity of the imagery in art, St Sebastian survived that incident; he was later killed by being bludgeoned to death for smarting off to Diocletian. Oh thank gawd somebody got the reference. I thought the joke would be too obscure, even for this crowd.