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Old 24th November 2018, 09:42 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
So, maybe this should go to the religion section but it seems to me that if you believe the Christian thing, going as a missionary to these people is really a dick move. As far as I remember from Catholic education, if you've never heard about how Jesus had his afternoon of gay S&M and was now everyone's savior you got a pass. If you did hear the story and rejected it, you were royally ******, like lake of fire for eternity and such.

So, let's say our boy, the dead one, sucked as a missionary. He got there, he told the story of Jesus having gay S&M sex with some Romans on a Friday afternoon and now they had to accept him as their savior. If the locals herd it, understood it and then said, that's ****** stupid go away, our missionary just damned them to Hell. These people were fine without knowing about Jesus and the gay S&M. If you really cared about the natives, why not leave them alone instead of risking them not believing you?
the level of next level homophobia in this post is absolutely amazing
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Old 24th November 2018, 09:48 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Okay Bob I have zero faith any of this is going to make it through your "cause purity" mental force field... but in the real world not every battle is worth having and real humans making real decisions with real human brains have to sometimes weight the pros and cons of actual actions in the actual real world on a level beyond "Fetishistic Purity to Bob's Arbitrarily Categorized Ways of Thinking" and making sure they are the purest of the pure (Insert philosophical, social, or political label here) isn't always the only thing that matters

This is a tiny (less then 400), incredibly isolated tribe that probably wouldn't survive sustained contact with the outside world. Even a moral victory would be a Pyrrhic one.

Yes, as I said back on page one of a this thread, back when it was fresh faced and youthful and as yet untainted by your Bobbing, having to just leave them to their devices does sort of suck and is a less than ideal solution but those happen in that pesky "real world" you never deign to factor into your insane ramblings.
Are you kidding me? This tribe are my heroes. I want every property owner to have the same right to their land and relationship with the government that this tribe has.
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Old 24th November 2018, 09:48 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by ugot2bekidding View Post
I'm sure there were ulterior motives, such as establishing trade routes etc. Also, japan has more than a thousand people, so that's still better, from a missionary perspective, than going to convert an isolated tribe.
There are not too many "Japans" needing to be converted. Those feeling the deep need to indoctrinate savages these days are down to tiny enclaves of people in pretty remote areas. Poetic justice really.
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Old 24th November 2018, 09:58 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Oh thank gawd somebody got the reference. I thought the joke would be too obscure, even for this crowd.
I should hope not. One needn't believe in Christian religion any more than one needs to believe in Greek mythology, but a passing acquaintance of both is required for a decent education in art history and literature. St Sebastian has been a perennial favorite subject for artists for centuries, and he's iconic in gay culture. That was a clever pun just now.
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Old 24th November 2018, 10:02 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by ugot2bekidding View Post
As a missionary, why would you go to such a low-population area to gain converts? Unless you're just trying to show your willingness to go into the lion's den for Christ, in other words..ego. He could have stayed in the west and had access to a lot more potential converts. And anyway, if there is anyone that would get a free pass from the big guy/gal upstairs it would have to be isolated tribes no? Assuming God isn't a complete dick...
The basic idea is that you have to save these people because Jesus is coming back any day now and people who haven't had a chance to hear the word of Christ will be thrown into a lake of fire.
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Old 24th November 2018, 10:31 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I should hope not. One needn't believe in Christian religion any more than one needs to believe in Greek mythology, but a passing acquaintance of both is required for a decent education in art history and literature. St Sebastian has been a perennial favorite subject for artists for centuries, and he's iconic in gay culture. That was a clever pun just now.
Which brings us to the question of whether Santa Claus should be allowed to portray St. Sebastian.
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Old 24th November 2018, 10:33 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
Which brings us to the question of whether Santa Claus should be allowed to portray St. Sebastian.
That would be easier than the reverse. Sebastian would never make it down a chimney with all those arrows in him. He may be the least chimney compatible saint of them all.
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Old 24th November 2018, 10:59 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
That would be easier than the reverse. Sebastian would never make it down a chimney with all those arrows in him. He may be the least chimney compatible saint of them all.
Yeah. For that work you'd want St. Florian. At least the millstone would help getting down the chimney. Or St. Margaret Clitherow.

(I've probably gone too obscure and should provide some explanation. My joke was in reference to another thread about a guy who lost a contract because he said he would not hire a woman to portray Santa Claus. That led to discussion about the actual traditional image of Santa Claus (St. Nicolas, Father Christmas, Kris Kringle) and how it has changed over time. St. Sebastian is commonly depicted as a somewhat feminine young man, but he was actually a middle-aged soldier and was originally depicted in the Church of San Pietro as a man with curly white head and a bushy white beard and white and red robes. That is, the very traditional Sebastian looked like Santa Claus. I've probably gone too far off topic. Back to St. Chau...)
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Old 24th November 2018, 11:09 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
the level of next level homophobia in this post is absolutely amazing
In what way is claiming that Jesus was gay homophobic?

It's a completely neutral claim that does not say anything about homosexuality.
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Old 24th November 2018, 11:14 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by Worm View Post
It's not so much 'they will kill you if you go there' (although no doubt that's part of it)

The real concern is that if we go there - they will die. They likely have no immunity whatsoever to a range of diseases and would be wiped out very quickly.
I have been following a discussion on this topic (on Ship of Fools) and it seems that the numbers of people in these remote groups are very low. I wonder if that means a contact with other larger groups would, in a way, aid the survival of such remote groups because their own shrinking gene pool will cause the problems that will cause their demise.

I thought I'd added a line, but it is not here ... try again:
ETA I see Sognosaur on page 1 has already said this.

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Old 25th November 2018, 02:18 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I'm sure that's exactly what was going through the minds of St. Sebastian and our intrepid martyr. "Hey, that's some impressive fletching on those arrows."
I think it's more likely that what went through their minds was an arrowhead.
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Old 25th November 2018, 02:23 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
The Sentinelese are hardly the first, or probably the last, isolates who can't think of anything else to do w/ an outsider than kill him. I don't wish them well, or even ill. Oblivion would probably be best.
All joking aside, you may get your preferred resolution sooner or later. The most recent reported government estimates of the remaining population of the Sentinelese are small enough that it's questionable whether they meet a minimum viability threshold.
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Old 25th November 2018, 02:24 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
In what way is claiming that Jesus was gay homophobic?

It's a completely neutral claim that does not say anything about homosexuality.
Unlike the Bible, which has quite a lot to say about homosexuality, and none of it positive.
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Old 25th November 2018, 02:47 AM   #214
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Luckily for the tribe, there are no natural resources on the islands that are worth extracting. There are plenty of other tribes who like to be left alone, but they live where there are valuable timber, gold etc.
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Old 25th November 2018, 03:03 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
No. That is why I'm not generating my own, novel conclusions on matters of law.
Apart of course of when you do.
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Old 25th November 2018, 03:09 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
the level of next level homophobia in this post is absolutely amazing
There was no homophobia in that post, you would have to *start* with the idea that there was something wrong about gay S&M sex to even start to see anything negative about homosexuality in that post. You may disagree with his summary of parts of the Bible, even if he was 100% wrong in his summary that doesn't make his summary homophobic it just makes it wrong.
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Old 25th November 2018, 03:11 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Are you kidding me? This tribe are my heroes. I want every property owner to have the same right to their land and relationship with the government that this tribe has.
You still have not established that they have this relationship with their government. Again please supply the documentation of the islanders consent to be governed by the Indian government, their existence predates the formation of India by at least hundreds of years.
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Old 25th November 2018, 03:12 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I'm sure that's exactly what was going through the minds of St. Sebastian and our intrepid martyr. "Hey, that's some impressive fletching on those arrows."
From all accounts St Sebastian may have been more familiar with fletching than many.
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Old 25th November 2018, 04:28 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
You still have not established that they have this relationship with their government. Again please supply the documentation of the islanders consent to be governed by the Indian government, their existence predates the formation of India by at least hundreds of years.
Indeed

In fact apart from India patrolling their own 3km limit around the place, the island is treated by the Indian govt as pretty much a sovereign land in all but paper work.
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Old 25th November 2018, 05:33 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
There was no homophobia in that post, you would have to *start* with the idea that there was something wrong about gay S&M sex to even start to see anything negative about homosexuality in that post. You may disagree with his summary of parts of the Bible, even if he was 100% wrong in his summary that doesn't make his summary homophobic it just makes it wrong.
Hey, I'm not judging Jesus. I say let your freak flag fly. Apparently though, in some accounts he let his mother watch which, come on people, healthy boundaries.
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Old 25th November 2018, 05:37 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by Worm View Post
Well worth a read if one wants to comment on the specifics of this story.
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Old 25th November 2018, 06:31 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Apart of course of when you do.
I rarely do. What people think are novel arguments are pretty basic libertarian ideas I didn't come up with.
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Old 25th November 2018, 06:42 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
You still have not established that they have this relationship with their government. Again please supply the documentation of the islanders consent to be governed by the Indian government, their existence predates the formation of India by at least hundreds of years.
I never said they provided conservative nor that it was necessary. Heck, I never provided consent to be covered
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Old 25th November 2018, 06:56 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
So, maybe this should go to the religion section but it seems to me that if you believe the Christian thing, going as a missionary to these people is really a dick move. As far as I remember from Catholic education, if you've never heard about how Jesus had his afternoon of gay S&M and was now everyone's savior you got a pass. If you did hear the story and rejected it, you were royally ******, like lake of fire for eternity and such.

So, let's say our boy, the dead one, sucked as a missionary. He got there, he told the story of Jesus having gay S&M sex with some Romans on a Friday afternoon and now they had to accept him as their savior. If the locals herd it, understood it and then said, that's ****** stupid go away, our missionary just damned them to Hell. These people were fine without knowing about Jesus and the gay S&M. If you really cared about the natives, why not leave them alone instead of risking them not believing you?
Alternative scenario: instead of dying and being blown away like dust, and living life like a beast in the field, the missionary might have offered:

Quote:
John 3:15-17 King James Version (KJV)
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Imagine, if just one of those primitive beings heard the message and was filled with joy at the knowledge of everlasting life, then for that one person, it will have been worthwhile.
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Old 25th November 2018, 07:03 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Are you kidding me? This tribe are my heroes. I want every property owner to have the same right to their land and relationship with the government that this tribe has.
Every time I go yachting in the Finnish Archipelego I am confronted with the sight of Swedish savages angrily waving their gravidlux' and running about naked on board their yachts.

All you can do is avert one's eyes from these sex-crazed neolithics making believe they are in the Mediterranean.
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Old 25th November 2018, 07:21 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
There was no homophobia in that post, you would have to *start* with the idea that there was something wrong about gay S&M sex to even start to see anything negative about homosexuality in that post. You may disagree with his summary of parts of the Bible, even if he was 100% wrong in his summary that doesn't make his summary homophobic it just makes it wrong.
What? You see nothing wrong in inflicting pain on another for sexual gratification..?
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Old 25th November 2018, 07:22 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
What? You see nothing wrong in inflicting pain on another for sexual gratification..?
No, I don't.
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Old 25th November 2018, 07:25 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Indeed

In fact apart from India patrolling their own 3km limit around the place, the island is treated by the Indian govt as pretty much a sovereign land in all but paper work.
Sorry to be cynical, but I doubt the islanders 'have been there thousands of years' claimed by some in the press. I gather they are African in appearance and are said to have migrated from the African mainland at some point in the past. Given India's caste system based on skin colour and class, I wouldn't be surprised if the islanders as seen as 'untouchables' by the Indian government, for it surely has a duty to provide education, medical care and other social benefits such as a road infrastructure.
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Old 25th November 2018, 07:32 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Sorry to be cynical, but I doubt the islanders 'have been there thousands of years' claimed by some in the press. I gather they are African in appearance and are said to have migrated from the African mainland at some point in the past. Given India's caste system based on skin colour and class, I wouldn't be surprised if the islanders as seen as 'untouchables' by the Indian government, for it surely has a duty to provide education, medical care and other social benefits such as a road infrastructure.
Try Wikipedia

Quote:
The earliest archaeological evidence yet documented goes back some 2,200 years; however, the indications from genetic, cultural and isolation studies suggest that the islands may have been inhabited as early as the Middle Paleolithic.[5] The indigenous Andamanese people appear to have lived on the islands in substantial isolation from that time until the 18th century AD.
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Old 25th November 2018, 07:54 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I gather they are African in appearance and are said to have migrated from the African mainland at some point in the past.
To whom, apart from Africans still resident on that continent, does that not apply?
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Old 25th November 2018, 08:34 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
It's virtue-signalling
I think Bob is closer.

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
They receive no pass in the doctrine.
If you believe that there is a loving* deity that will save people if they hear the Good News, and if you die in a state of grace you will have eternal life, then by your lights, those unsaved souls need to be saved.

*I'll leave any discussion of fridge logic about how such an omnipotent o=mniscent benign deity is willing to let otherwise innocent souls suffer damnation when they could have arranged matters otherwise to the R&P subforum
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Old 25th November 2018, 08:40 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
What? You see nothing wrong in inflicting pain on another for sexual gratification..?
Well, as long as all involved are consenting adults...
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Old 25th November 2018, 08:42 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Well, as long as all involved are consenting adults...
If we merge this thread with the female Santa one, we are getting soooooo close to my kink
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Old 25th November 2018, 09:45 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
When the crusaders from the eleventh century onwards spread throughout Europe they were given a mandate to convert the pagans wherever they found them.

They were made 'Knights of the Sword' and given a 'Letter of Salvation' and rust service ('rust' = equestrian).

So, in other words, it was seen as a Christian obligation to try to 'save' people.

Jehovah's Witnesses believe only those in the priesthood will be among the 144K saved, come Judgement Day, and in order to be one of the chosen, you have to have 'saved' people's souls.

I would guess the dead missionary in the Andamans had that motive.

As a martyr, he gets to lie beneath the altar in heaven with all the other martyrs (people who died for their faith) and, come the New Jerusalem, they will rise up in white robes and go marching into heaven as 'saints'.

In other words, he did it for selfish reasons.
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Old 25th November 2018, 10:31 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I never said they provided conservative nor that it was necessary. Heck, I never provided consent to be covered
What is "Conservative"?
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Old 25th November 2018, 10:33 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
What? You see nothing wrong in inflicting pain on another for sexual gratification..?
If it is consensual, no.
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Old 25th November 2018, 01:11 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
.... surely has a duty to provide education, medical care and other social benefits such as a road infrastructure.
Like that has always worked out so well in the past..



What about leaving people to enjoy life as they know it?
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Last edited by Skeptical Greg; 25th November 2018 at 01:13 PM.
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Old 25th November 2018, 01:47 PM   #238
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The "Noble Savage" is nonsense.
The "Savage" is also nonsense.
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Old 25th November 2018, 02:02 PM   #239
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Are you kidding me? This tribe are my heroes. I want every property owner to have the same right to their land and relationship with the government that this tribe has.
The world you want to live in would be a nightmare. Have you thought about moving to Somalia or similar country where you could actually live out your fantasies? that is if you survived or could effectively maintain control of whatever it is you own.
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Old 25th November 2018, 02:13 PM   #240
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We don't have to skid too far in the other direction and start treating this tribe as some mythical noble savage archetype for whom civilization as a concept would ruin

Given how they treat outsiders I'm betting life as an Adamans is particularly pleasant.

Again this is a practical decision, not a moralistic or idealistic one.

Living in uneducated squalor without modern medicine is not a state we should wish upon anyone, even if circumstances force us to accept it.
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