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Old 24th November 2018, 08:22 PM   #1
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Being a Good Guy with a Gun, while being Black

So the setup was that there was an altercation at a Alabama shopping mall during Black Friday shopping, this resulted in an 18 year old being shot twice in the stomach and a 12 year old girl who was a bystander being shot once.

An off duty cop who was working security spotted a 21-year old black guy with a gun fleeing the area, confronted him, and then shot an killed him.

The problem is that, similar to the Security officer who was killed recently, Emantic Fitzgerald Bradford Jr. was not the actual shooter, but rather appears to have been trying to do the "right thing."

I have said this before, and I'm going to say it again. Drawing a weapon and going looking for, or even running from, a actual gunman is stupid, and this whole "good guy with a gun" will get people killed, and is getting people killed. Especially if you are Black!

There is no way that the police can determine if you are a shooter or a good guy when they have an active shooter call, and in many cases we are seeing that they often don't ask a lot of questions of people with drawn weapons in these scenarios. Not only that, if there are other "Good Guys with guns" there is no way for you to identify them as non-active shooters, or for them to identify you as such. The only people capable of identifying others as non-shooters are the shooters themselves, and they are likely to see "good guys" with a gun as a threat and so fire on them. In the end all that pulling a gun does in these situations is make yourself a target, for the Shooter(s), for the Police, and finally for other "Good Guys with a Gun." Pulling out your gun then is just plain stupid.

Sure, if you can find a place to barricade yourself in and wait, then having a gun might help should the shooter try and bust their way in, but drawing it and running around the place, that's an insane thing to do, and will get you killed, regardless of what the NRA says.
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Old 24th November 2018, 10:14 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
So the setup was that there was an altercation at a Alabama shopping mall during Black Friday shopping, this resulted in an 18 year old being shot twice in the stomach and a 12 year old girl who was a bystander being shot once.

An off duty cop who was working security spotted a 21-year old black guy with a gun fleeing the area, confronted him, and then shot an killed him.

The problem is that, similar to the Security officer who was killed recently, Emantic Fitzgerald Bradford Jr. was not the actual shooter, but rather appears to have been trying to do the "right thing."

I have said this before, and I'm going to say it again. Drawing a weapon and going looking for, or even running from, a actual gunman is stupid, and this whole "good guy with a gun" will get people killed, and is getting people killed. Especially if you are Black!

There is no way that the police can determine if you are a shooter or a good guy when they have an active shooter call, and in many cases we are seeing that they often don't ask a lot of questions of people with drawn weapons in these scenarios. Not only that, if there are other "Good Guys with guns" there is no way for you to identify them as non-active shooters, or for them to identify you as such. The only people capable of identifying others as non-shooters are the shooters themselves, and they are likely to see "good guys" with a gun as a threat and so fire on them. In the end all that pulling a gun does in these situations is make yourself a target, for the Shooter(s), for the Police, and finally for other "Good Guys with a Gun." Pulling out your gun then is just plain stupid.

Sure, if you can find a place to barricade yourself in and wait, then having a gun might help should the shooter try and bust their way in, but drawing it and running around the place, that's an insane thing to do, and will get you killed, regardless of what the NRA says.
Totally agree

It isn't rocket science that when the cops arrive the first thing you should do in the middle of mass confusion and shooting, is lose the gun (by lose I mean don't have it out), to avoid being confused with the bad guys.

Cops aren't mind readers
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Old 25th November 2018, 10:23 AM   #3
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It appears from the reports that this fellow even had all his permits in order, leaving even less irrelevant minutiae for the apologists to seize upon for the sake of claiming that the actual problem highlighted by this incident isn't the actual problem.
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Old 25th November 2018, 10:24 AM   #4
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Amen. The Yosemite Sam Paradox on the hoof.
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Old 25th November 2018, 11:13 AM   #5
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These stories are often read with bias on full blast hoping for the outcome that aligns. If the black guy had shot the shooter in this mess it would be hailed by the NRA as a triumph. Even though the circumstances were identical.
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Old 25th November 2018, 11:52 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Amen. The Yosemite Sam Paradox on the hoof.
Coined a phrase?

"No results found for "Yosemite Sam Paradox"."
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Old 25th November 2018, 12:17 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Coined a phrase?

"No results found for "Yosemite Sam Paradox"."
Make it go viral!
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Old 25th November 2018, 12:19 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Coined a phrase?

"No results found for "Yosemite Sam Paradox"."
Yeah, that's my turn of phrase. I suffer from Hamlet's Disorder: half of what I say means something else, and the other half doesn't mean anything at all.
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Old 25th November 2018, 01:03 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Yeah, that's my turn of phrase. I suffer from Hamlet's Disorder: half of what I say means something else, and the other half doesn't mean anything at all.
You don't get away that easy.

What does it even mean?
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Old 25th November 2018, 01:35 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
You don't get away that easy.

What does it even mean?
Sam: “Be you the mean hombre’ that’s a-hankerin’ for a heap a trouble stranga! … well be ya?” BANG!! (Shot and killed).
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Old 25th November 2018, 02:48 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Totally agree

It isn't rocket science that when the cops arrive the first thing you should do in the middle of mass confusion and shooting, is lose the gun (by lose I mean don't have it out), to avoid being confused with the bad guys.

Cops aren't mind readers
So...how do you "lose the gun" without reaching for it?

Perhaps cops should be taught to assess the situation they go into, instead of just driving up blasting guns like the guy that killed Tamir Rice. A while ago I lauded Ofc. Peter Casuccio because, when he encountered a black kid with a BB gun, he didn't shoot, but instead figured it out, lectured the kid, drove him home, and told the kid's mom what happened. I did so precisely because that's what I want to see more of. Instead of shooting kids with BB guns, killing legal gun owners, or tasing people because of a medical condition, take a sec, assess what you're looking at, and *then* act.

And before anyone says it, no, I won't ever be a cop, and if I were, I'd be terrible at the job. I want people with legal authority to be better people than me.

Last edited by Mumbles; 25th November 2018 at 02:51 PM.
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Old 25th November 2018, 03:49 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
So...how do you "lose the gun" without reaching for it?
I assume just leaving it holstered and concealed. Although that seems contrary to the entire point of concealed carry.
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Old 25th November 2018, 06:56 PM   #13
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Needs clarification:

Quote:
Police initially said Bradford was the gunman. But the next day, police issued a statement saying new evidence suggested Bradford “may have been involved in some aspect of the altercation” and had a handgun but likely did not fire the rounds.
Quote:
“While moving toward the shooting scene, one of the officers encountered a suspect brandishing a pistol and shot him,” police said in a statement written immediately after the shooting. In a revised statement, they said Bradford was fatally shot while “fleeing the shooting scene while brandishing a handgun.”
WHAT aspect of the altercation may have he been involved in and WHY was he allegedly "fleeing" from the crime scene?

It matters.

Release the video.
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Old 27th November 2018, 02:02 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by AJM8125 View Post
Needs clarification:





WHAT aspect of the altercation may have he been involved in and WHY was he allegedly "fleeing" from the crime scene?

It matters.

Release the video.
Fleeing the scene presumably means that he was shot in the back. So he could not be seen as an immediate threat to the officer concerned. Perhaps as part of 'losing' his gun he had turned away from the officer so as not to be seen as a threat. Seriously if you do happen to be a good guy with a gun what do you do to signify you are no threat? I know nothing about guns but I assume if you just drop it there is a chance it might go off? Clearly in these situations you are not given instructions as the police are trained to shoot first so you have to do something to clearly signify you are no threat.
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Old 27th November 2018, 02:25 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by AJM8125 View Post
Needs clarification:





WHAT aspect of the altercation may have he been involved in and WHY was he allegedly "fleeing" from the crime scene?

It matters.

Release the video.
You can pretty much assign police culpability by how long it takes for video of the shooting to reach the press.

In cases where the person shot raised a weapon or was otherwise clearly threatening to the police, the video will be out before the body is cold.
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Old 27th November 2018, 02:55 PM   #16
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Well, the police need time to doctor the video.
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Old 27th November 2018, 03:04 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by AJM8125 View Post
Needs clarification:





WHAT aspect of the altercation may have he been involved in and WHY was he allegedly "fleeing" from the crime scene?

It matters.

Release the video.
"Brandishing" typically implies some sort of threatening motion with the weapon. For some reason I bet when we see the video there will mainly just be running while holding a gun, possibly holding it at the ready, but no actual brandishing.
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Old 27th November 2018, 03:08 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
"Brandishing" typically implies some sort of threatening motion with the weapon. For some reason I bet when we see the video there will mainly just be running while holding a gun, possibly holding it at the ready, but no actual brandishing.
With guns, Pointing is worse than Brandishing.
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Old 27th November 2018, 03:36 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Mr Salk View Post
With guns, Pointing is worse than Brandishing.
I would assume that pointing at someone actually is brandishing, but I'm open to situations I haven't considered.

Holding the weapon pointing up or down in a "ready" but not engaged position would be more consistent with what I would expect from someone who has a license to carry concealed.
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Old 27th November 2018, 03:44 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
So...how do you "lose the gun" without reaching for it?

Perhaps cops should be taught to assess the situation they go into, instead of just driving up blasting guns like the guy that killed Tamir Rice. A while ago I lauded Ofc. Peter Casuccio because, when he encountered a black kid with a BB gun, he didn't shoot, but instead figured it out, lectured the kid, drove him home, and told the kid's mom what happened. I did so precisely because that's what I want to see more of. Instead of shooting kids with BB guns, killing legal gun owners, or tasing people because of a medical condition, take a sec, assess what you're looking at, and *then* act.

And before anyone says it, no, I won't ever be a cop, and if I were, I'd be terrible at the job. I want people with legal authority to be better people than me.
This. Though I have worked a lot with law enforcement I have never been a part of it. I have, however, been involved in armed, hostile situations both in the military and as a manager/director of civilian security departments.

My first reaction to most videos of alleged police brutality or police racism isn't agreement with the characterization but rather disgust at the systemically poor training such videos demonstrate. The poor training stems -- intentionally or unintentionally -- from a mistaken mindset, a mindset I have seen in law enforcement, in the military, and in civilian security departments. That mindset is the one that says "We don't do anything risky unless we do everything to eliminate the risk." I hate that mindset. It admits that the organization isn't prepared to face the risk to any greater degree than the public. I hate it most when the defense for the mistaken actions of the police is that the victim didn't follow commands.

This video is one I find hard to forget.

On the surface, the officer is giving very clear commands, but that is only a technical observation, and such a situation is anything but technical when it comes to the decision-making abilities of those involved. Don't believe me? Pay attention to the officer's demeanor and tone of voice. He's the trained one; he's the armed one; he's the one with all the power. And yet he's the one who communicates through yelling that makes it clear he is not concerned with the perspective of the person at whom he is yelling.

Why should the officer be concerned with that perspective? Not for a touchy-feely, feel good reason. Not for progressive rationalizations. Not for optics. But for effect. Actual effect. Daniel Shaver in that linked video above was not the bad guy, and because he was not the bad guy he was not prepared to handle the situation in which he found himself through no fault of his own. But the officer was trained, or he was ostensibly trained.

The mindset in such situations, if one is to be a true defender of society as a law enforcement officer instead of just an enforcer, is to act tactically but interact tactfully. Again, it is not tact for tact's sake, nor is it tact because I want soft and lovable police officers. It is tact because that is what will get the untrained populace being protected to most likely behave in the desired manner. And the police should not expect perfection even when using tact. The precipitating act in the Daniel Shaver video was his right hand swinging too far back so that he technically violated one of the officer's rules. Yes, one can argue it didn't "swing" back and that Shaver paused and was reaching for something, but one needs to assume the worst to reach that conclusion particularly since there was nothing there for Shaver to reach for. I am fearful if I am ever stopped on a day when my back or shoulder is acting up and an officer insists I raise my hands higher or he'll shoot me. I'll have to get shot, I suppose, at least if I am stopped by some I have seen on video who do not listen to anything the suspect says.

And lest anyone think I am making something up out of thin air, I refer you to the case of Officer Stephen Mader who didn't shoot. Mader was fired for "not eliminating the threat" and thereby endangering those officers who showed up later and did, indeed, shoot the victim.

Those other officers had the wrong training ("eliminate the threat" instead of "resolve the situation") and that stemmed from the wrong mindset. Change the mindset. Change the training. Yes, I'm asking officers to accept more risk than they are now, but right now they're asking civilians to take nearly all the threat even when innocent. That's neither serving nor protecting; it's enforcing and bullying.
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Old 27th November 2018, 03:46 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
Well, the police need time to doctor the video.
They don't need to. Alex Jones will take care of that for them.
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Old 27th November 2018, 03:47 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
So...how do you "lose the gun" without reaching for it?

Perhaps cops should be taught to assess the situation they go into, instead of just driving up blasting guns like the guy that killed Tamir Rice. A while ago I lauded Ofc. Peter Casuccio because, when he encountered a black kid with a BB gun, he didn't shoot, but instead figured it out, lectured the kid, drove him home, and told the kid's mom what happened. I did so precisely because that's what I want to see more of. Instead of shooting kids with BB guns, killing legal gun owners, or tasing people because of a medical condition, take a sec, assess what you're looking at, and *then* act.

And before anyone says it, no, I won't ever be a cop, and if I were, I'd be terrible at the job. I want people with legal authority to be better people than me.
This. Though I have worked a lot with law enforcement I have never been a part of it. I have, however, been involved in armed, hostile situations both in the military and as a manager/director of civilian security departments.

My first reaction to most videos of alleged police brutality or police racism isn't agreement with the characterization but rather disgust at the systemically poor training such videos demonstrate. The poor training stems -- intentionally or unintentionally -- from a mistaken mindset, a mindset I have seen in law enforcement, in the military, and in civilian security departments. That mindset is the one that says "We don't do anything risky unless we do everything to eliminate the risk." I hate that mindset. It admits that the organization isn't prepared to face the risk to any greater degree than the public. I hate it most when the defense for the mistaken actions of the police is that the victim didn't follow commands.

This video is one I find hard to forget.

On the surface, the office is giving very clear commands, but that is only a technical observation, and such a situation is anything but technical when it comes to the decision-making abilities of those involved. Don't believe me? Pay attention to the officer's demeanor and tone of voice. He's the trained one; he's the armed one; he's the one with all the power. And yet he's the one who communicates through yelling that makes it clear he is not concerned with the perspective of the person at whom he is yelling.

Why should the officer be concerned with that perspective? Not for a touchy-feely, feel good reason. Not for progressive rationalizations. Not for optics. But for effect. Actual effect. Daniel Shaver in that linked video above was not the bad guy, and because he was not the bad guy he was not prepared to handle the situation in which he found himself. But the officer was trained, or he was ostensibly trained.

The mindset in such situations, if one is to be a true defender of society as a law enforcement officer instead of just an enforcer, is to act tactically but interact tactfully. Again, it is not tact for tact's sake, nor is it tact because I want soft and lovable police officers. It is tact because that is what will get the untrained populace being protected to most likely behave in the desired manner. And the police should not expect perfection even when using tact. The precipitating act in the Daniel Shaver video was his right hand swinging too far back so that he technically violated one of the officer's rules. Yes, one can argue it didn't "swing" back and that Shaver paused and was reaching for something, but one needs to assume the worst to reach that conclusion particularly since there was nothing there for Shaver to reach for. I am fearful if I am ever stopped on a day when my back or shoulder is acting up and an officer insists I raise my hands higher or he'll shoot me. I'll have to get shot, I suppose, at least if I am stopped by some I have seen on video who do not listen to anything the suspect says.

And lest anyone think I am making something up out of thin air, I refer you to the case of Officer Stephen Mader who didn't shoot. Mader was fired for "not eliminating the threat" and thereby endangering those officers who showed up later and did, indeed, shoot the victim.

Those other officers had the wrong training ("eliminate the threat" instead of "resolve the situation") and that stemmed from the wrong mindset. Change the mindset. Change the training. Yes, I'm asking officers to accept more risk than they are now, but right now they're asking civilians to take nearly all the threat even when innocent. That's neither serving nor protecting; it's enforcing and bullying.
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Old 27th November 2018, 04:12 PM   #23
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I understand how law enforcement officers are human beings and can encounter very frightening situations. As a fellow human being I can therefore understand when errors are made in terse, rapidly unfolding circumstances. But it is crucial to remember that these errors are not what we require from LEOs, it is not to be accepted, and when it occurs it should be very rare and is an indication that something went very wrong in their training, their deployment, and/or in the appropriateness of the individual for a career in policing. In the past few years I've seen more and more of the scary idea of "Oh well, you have to expect and accept these kinds of things." No, these kinds of things are not acceptable; they must be treated as abhorrent each time no matter what the circumstances, carefully studied for what went wrong, and changes implemented to make it virtually impossible for that error to happen again. LEOs are there to protect innocent people, not to add to the treats against them.

One may not be able to fully eliminate these tragedies, but that has to be the fervent goal at all times! Not an "oh well, it's understandable..." response and to carry on with the status quo.

Last edited by Giordano; 27th November 2018 at 04:13 PM.
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Old 27th November 2018, 05:16 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I would assume that pointing at someone actually is brandishing, but I'm open to situations I haven't considered.

Holding the weapon pointing up or down in a "ready" but not engaged position would be more consistent with what I would expect from someone who has a license to carry concealed.
I assure you there are few prerequisites to obtain a concealed carry permit.
In some states it's just Fingerprints, ID and Cash.
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Old 27th November 2018, 06:18 PM   #25
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Apparently it's an acceptable price to pay, or something.
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Old 27th November 2018, 09:02 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
Fleeing the scene presumably means that he was shot in the back. So he could not be seen as an immediate threat to the officer concerned. Perhaps as part of 'losing' his gun he had turned away from the officer so as not to be seen as a threat.
Yeah, that's what I'm trying to do - figure out the scenarios. Things about this incident aren't adding up. Best I reckon about his so-called "involvement" is -

1. He acted in defense of the victims.

2. He was in the vicinity and found himself in the line of fire and took a defensive stance.

3. He was an accomplice in the crime.

4. Law Enforcement is lying.

And best I can figure why he's said to have fled the scene of the crime is -

1. He quickly realized he was out of his depth, lost his nerve and ran away, which would validate scenarios #1 & #2.

2. He ran away in an attempt to evade arrest, validating scenario #3.

3. He was in pursuit of the shooter.

4. He realized he's an armed black man at the scene of a shooting, best get the **** out of Dodge.

5. Law Enforcement is lying.

Possible reason for him running with the gun in hand is, like so many numb skulls, he either had an inadequate holster or no holster at all. If the gun was stuffed in his waistband or a pocket then it may have bounced out while he ran.

Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
Seriously if you do happen to be a good guy with a gun what do you do to signify you are no threat? I know nothing about guns but I assume if you just drop it there is a chance it might go off?
1. Immediately drop the gun regardless of whether it will discharge or not, raise your hands above your head, shut your mouth obey every. single. command. you're given.

2. Don't be black.
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Old 27th November 2018, 09:07 PM   #27
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Those last two are some genuinely life saving pearls of wisdom. And neither should have to be.
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Old 27th November 2018, 09:16 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
I know nothing about guns but I assume if you just drop it there is a chance it might go off?
I've been told by those in the know that it is extremely unlikely for a dropped gun to discharge.
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Old 27th November 2018, 09:29 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I've been told by those in the know that it is extremely unlikely for a dropped gun to discharge.
And that simply isn't true.

While it is true that most modern pistols have drop safeties built in to keep the striker or firing pin from striking the cartridge primer thus discharging the firearm, IT'S NOT FOOL PROOF. That and there are literally millions of older guns out there that can discharge if dropped. One of those could wind up in your hands one day, should you become curious.
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Old 27th November 2018, 09:57 PM   #30
arthwollipot
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Originally Posted by AJM8125 View Post
And that simply isn't true.

While it is true that most modern pistols have drop safeties built in to keep the striker or firing pin from striking the cartridge primer thus discharging the firearm, IT'S NOT FOOL PROOF. That and there are literally millions of older guns out there that can discharge if dropped. One of those could wind up in your hands one day, should you become curious.
Not my hands. I don't anticipate ever being that curious. Thanks for the clarification. It directly contradicts things that I've been told before, so I guess I just don't know any more.
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Old 27th November 2018, 10:04 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Not my hands. I don't anticipate ever being that curious. Thanks for the clarification. It directly contradicts things that I've been told before, so I guess I just don't know any more.
Guns are frigging dangerous. Don't drop them. Or point them. Maybe just leave them in the gun safe.
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Old 27th November 2018, 10:23 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Not my hands. I don't anticipate ever being that curious. Thanks for the clarification. It directly contradicts things that I've been told before, so I guess I just don't know any more.
Yes, your hands.

Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
For the record, I have been considering visiting the local gun club in order to expand my horizons. Yes, we have one, and yes, I know where it is.

And that's where you might wind up with a firearm that can discharge if dropped, as there are millions of them out there that can.

A word of advice should you decide to expand your horizons -

There's always some asshat at the range or club that will **** with a noob by giving him a short barreled, high caliber handgun to try out. Such a weapon will usually produce a nasty recoil which will jar the gun from your hands if you're not ready for it, no matter how strong you are.

Should somebody hand you something with a slide or barrel 3 inches or under and a caliber of .38 / .357 or higher, keep a strong grip, slowly squeeze the trigger and spoil his fun.

ETA: If you're not sure of the caliber, make sure the firearm is unloaded, keep the firearm pointed downrange and look down either side of the slide or barrel - its normally engraved there.
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Old 28th November 2018, 02:28 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by AJM8125 View Post
Yeah, that's what I'm trying to do - figure out the scenarios. Things about this incident aren't adding up. Best I reckon about his so-called "involvement" is -
You seem to have deliberately missed out a few options, such as...

5) Police were genuinely mistaken about his role in the shootings
6) Police were working on information from witnesses, who were mistaken

and in your second list...

6) He was running to get out of the area where shots had been fired, and had drawn his weapon to protect himself if the shooter came after him.
7) He was running towards where the shots were fired to and had drawn his weapon to try and help.
8) The officer was mistaken about what was occurring.
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Old 28th November 2018, 04:10 AM   #34
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I still really doin't get how the second amendment guarantees the right to carry a firearm (current interpretation, it used to be different) but actually carrying a firearm gets you shot, no questions asked.

That's just mental to me.
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Old 28th November 2018, 08:15 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Mr Salk View Post
I assure you there are few prerequisites to obtain a concealed carry permit.
In some states it's just Fingerprints, ID and Cash.
Varies state to state and I know it can be quite lacking. But this guy was a vet and his father was LEO, if I remember correctly. Also, not necessarily brandishing:

Originally Posted by CNN
Later Monday morning
Bradford didn't necessarily brandish a gun
Hoover police issued another clarification, saying Bradford simply had a gun in his hand:
"Earlier, we stated that Mr. Bradford 'brandished' a gun. To clarify, the word 'brandish' was used because Mr. Bradford had a gun in his hand as police officers responded to the active shooter situation between mall patrons."
But to "brandish" -- according to most definitions -- means to wave or show a weapon in an aggressive or menacing way.
Bradford was actually trying to help people to safety when he was shot, said his family's attorney, Ben Crump.
Crump also said Bradford had a permit to carry a concealed weapon.
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Old 28th November 2018, 08:30 AM   #36
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Has the NRA yet come to this guy's defense, at least enough to more widely publicize that the initial accusations by the police that he was the culprit were not accurate? Don't they "owe" him that much as a lawful gun owner?

So far the scenario appears to be exactly what the NRE puts forward as a major justification for fire arm possession (re. title of the OP). No doubt they are only waiting for a few more facts to be established, yet?
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Old 28th November 2018, 08:43 AM   #37
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Most important is what are the exact details and specifications of the weapons used?
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Old 28th November 2018, 10:09 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by AJM8125 View Post

There's always some asshat at the range or club that will **** with a noob by giving him a short barreled, high caliber handgun to try out. Such a weapon will usually produce a nasty recoil which will jar the gun from your hands if you're not ready for it, no matter how strong you are.
And if you are really lucky double and shoot you in the head. That is always be funniest thing as after all even double action revolvers can result in such great comedy.
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Old 28th November 2018, 10:11 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Has the NRA yet come to this guy's defense, at least enough to more widely publicize that the initial accusations by the police that he was the culprit were not accurate? Don't they "owe" him that much as a lawful gun owner?
The NRA are never going to criticise a cop no matter how blatant the cops violations of the law are.
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Old 28th November 2018, 10:43 AM   #40
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Trevor Noah mentioned that there were others at the scene who had drawn their concealed weapons, but being protected by their bullet proof whiteness, they were not shot. If that is true this is going to cost the taxpayers of the town quite another truckload of money.

When are taxpayers going to insist that cops stop burning money by the truckload? Taxpayer wallets surely matter, even where black lives don't.
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