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Tags LGBT issues , transgender incidents , transgender issues , transgenderism

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Old 29th November 2018, 10:14 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
2) She's not trans, but has an untreated mental disorder that has her seriously confused about who and what she is.
What exactly is the difference?

Last time I checked, gender dysphoria is indeed a mental disorder, that is treated by the medical and social transition to the subject's desired socio-biological gender construct.
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Old 29th November 2018, 10:22 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Have you tried actively seeking out the redheads, though? Gay people are a minority but we manage to find each other. By, you know, looking. Try your local redhead bar, or the sunscreen aisle in the drug store.
Gays and lesbians, I get. But why would trans people go out looking for one another? You're right, I haven't looked for gingers, because there's no reason for us to congregate.

Plus, as you've surely noticed, we're all massive pricks.
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Old 29th November 2018, 10:24 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
I say appears to be, because I'm not necessarily convinced that this person is who she says she is. This entire thing reads like a page from the TERF conspiracy theory manual. She hits nearly all of their anti-trans propaganda points -- trans is just a mental illness, transwomen are only looking to invade female spaces, transpeople are "turned" trans rather than being born trans, GRS is nothing but genital mutilation and hormone therapy is inevitably damaging and not valid treatment, and so on. Her reference to Solanas kind of cements this view.
The thing read weirdly to me but now that you mention it, you might be right. Almost reads like something written to smear trans people.
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Old 29th November 2018, 10:31 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What exactly is the difference?

Last time I checked, gender dysphoria is indeed a mental disorder, that is treated by the medical and social transition to the subject's desired socio-biological gender construct.
If a person is in significant distress because of gender dysphoria, that and that alone makes it a "disorder" (almost by definition).

Transpeople are not necessarily in distress of any significant magnitude over gender dysphoria issues, though.
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Old 29th November 2018, 10:35 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
But why would trans people go out looking for one another?
Members of minority groups often seek friendship and companionship with other members of the same group.

It's just nice to not be the oddball sometimes.
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Old 29th November 2018, 10:36 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Members of minority groups often seek friendship and companionship with other members of the same group.

It's just nice to not be the oddball sometimes.
Yeah I guess I can relate to the geek situation back in high school. That makes sense.
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Old 29th November 2018, 10:59 AM   #47
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Exclamation

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
We seem to be dangerously close to accusing the New York Times of publishing fake news.
Op eds aren't news.
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Old 29th November 2018, 11:14 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Gays and lesbians, I get. But why would trans people go out looking for one another? You're right, I haven't looked for gingers, because there's no reason for us to congregate.
I've heard that if you get enough gingers in a room, they can generate a partial soul between them.
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Old 29th November 2018, 11:16 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
Op eds aren't news.
Fake op eds have the same implications for media credibility as fake news reports. I don't mind putting them under the same heading.

ETA: And I wouldn't say they aren't news. Certainly when the New York Times publishes an opinion, they're saying, "this opinion is newsworthy." "You should consider these ideas." Etc. In a sense, fake op eds are even worse. They're not giving you bad facts. They're giving you bad ideas and bad conclusions.

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Old 29th November 2018, 11:24 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I've heard that if you get enough gingers in a room, they can generate a partial soul between them.
You heard wrong. We cannot do that!
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Old 29th November 2018, 11:27 AM   #51
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I can't really tell what the motive of this op-ed is. Is it meant to be a public commentary on the wider issue of medical gatekeeping for GRS and trans people, or just a human interest story specifically about this very conflicted person.

If it's supposed to be the former, it seems a bit sketchy to me. I don't think this author's story typifies the dilemma that trans people face when making these decisions by a long shot.

I wouldn't go so far as calling it fake news, but I do find it a bit muddled and strange for the NYT.
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Old 29th November 2018, 11:28 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I've heard that if you get enough gingers in a room, they can generate a partial soul between them.
Nonsense. You can't add zeros to produce a non-zero number.
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Old 29th November 2018, 11:29 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I've heard that if you get enough gingers in a room, they can generate a partial soul between them.
Gingers don't congregate with other gingers because gingers can't steal a soul from the soulless.
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Old 29th November 2018, 11:39 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Nonsense. You can't add zeros to produce a non-zero number.
Recently I've been reading through the Wikipedia articles related to nuclear weapon design. The metaphor on my mind is critical mass of fissionable material. In normal concentrations, gingers don't produce enough soulons to generate a soul. But put enough of them together, perhaps with a gadget to generate an initiating soulon pulse, and you might get something.
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Old 29th November 2018, 11:43 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Recently I've been reading through the Wikipedia articles related to nuclear weapon design. The metaphor on my mind is critical mass of fissionable material. In normal concentrations, gingers don't produce enough soulons to generate a soul. But put enough of them together, perhaps with a gadget to generate an initiating soulon pulse, and you might get something.
Just why exactly were you reading up on nuke design? Planning to give a few as presents to the Ukraine? I think they'd appreciate it very much around now!

I've been reading up on food taboos. Things I've learned: bear meat isn't kosher, eating cat meat was legal in Germany until 1996, and Sunni Islam is okay with eating whale meat but only if the whale died from natural causes.

Wikipedia is awesome.
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Old 29th November 2018, 11:43 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Recently I've been reading through the Wikipedia articles related to nuclear weapon design. The metaphor on my mind is critical mass of fissionable material. In normal concentrations, gingers don't produce enough soulons to generate a soul. But put enough of them together, perhaps with a gadget to generate an initiating soulon pulse, and you might get something.
Yeah but you're assuming that we generate any at all.
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Old 29th November 2018, 11:47 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Gingers don't congregate with other gingers because gingers can't steal a soul from the soulless.
Yeah, we do more damage by mingling with you normals.
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Old 29th November 2018, 11:48 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Just why exactly were you reading up on nuke design? Planning to give a few as presents to the Ukraine? I think they'd appreciate it very much around now!

I've been reading up on food taboos. Things I've learned: bear meat isn't kosher, eating cat meat was legal in Germany until 1996, and Sunni Islam is okay with eating whale meat but only if the whale died from natural causes.

Wikipedia is awesome.
Whales just giant sea pigs, as far as I'm concerned. I'd think they have a problem with that.
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Old 29th November 2018, 11:54 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Whales just giant sea pigs, as far as I'm concerned. I'd think they have a problem with that.
Biologically, whales are more closely related to crickets than they are to pigs. Their most recent common ancestor is a metamorphic rock.
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Old 29th November 2018, 11:55 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I wouldn't go so far as calling it fake news, but I do find it a bit muddled and strange for the NYT.
I suppose we could see a different headline somewhere...

"New York Times accused of transphobia for refusing to publish an op-ed by a transperson."
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Old 29th November 2018, 11:56 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Recently I've been reading through the Wikipedia articles related to nuclear weapon design. The metaphor on my mind is critical mass of fissionable material. In normal concentrations, gingers don't produce enough soulons to generate a soul. But put enough of them together, perhaps with a gadget to generate an initiating soulon pulse, and you might get something.
If you want a nuclear analogy, I'd consider them more like boron in a nuclear reactor. They suck up soulons, and thus interfere with the positive feedback that normal souls have with each other. Too many of them in one place and the people around them might as well be soulless too.
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Old 29th November 2018, 12:09 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by pharphis View Post
It really does read like a strawperson. I don't normally think such a possibility is worthy of consideration, though. Weird
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
The thing read weirdly to me but now that you mention it, you might be right. Almost reads like something written to smear trans people.

A dozen or so years ago, I would have considered the possibility to be laughable, but given everything I've learned about the various disinformation campaigns, and about the various anti-minority crusaders out there (racist, sexist, anti-LGBTQ, etc.), combined with what I've been learning about the burgeoning TERF movement in the last year (and their leaders/organizations like Cathy Brennan and Get the L Out), as well as activities by religious right organizations like the Pacific Justice Institute, I can more readily believe that this is yet another disinfo tactic.

Not that I'm saying it definitively is a disinformation troll or agent provocateur, after all it could just be a mentally ill individual who has had the bad fortunate to be unduly influenced by anti-trans rhetoric, but it does have a lot of the hallmarks, and fits the conspiracy theories far too neatly.
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Old 29th November 2018, 12:39 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
If you want a nuclear analogy, I'd consider them more like boron in a nuclear reactor. They suck up soulons, and thus interfere with the positive feedback that normal souls have with each other. Too many of them in one place and the people around them might as well be soulless too.
Metaphor, please.

I don't want any kind of analogy.
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Old 29th November 2018, 12:40 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Metaphor, please.

I don't want any kind of analogy.
You really should consult for that.
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Old 29th November 2018, 12:43 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Metaphor, please.

I don't want any kind of analogy.
Vivacity is to fulgurite as ineffable is to...

A) infrangible
B) irrefragable
C) inion
D) vicereine

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Old 29th November 2018, 12:47 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I've heard that if you get enough gingers in a room, they can generate a partial soul between them.
Fake news.
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Old 29th November 2018, 01:03 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
You really should consult for that.
Enh. There's no money in it. I'll keep my day job.
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Old 29th November 2018, 01:08 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Enh. There's no money in it. I'll keep my day job.
There's money in it, but for the shrink, not the patient.
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Old 29th November 2018, 01:09 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Vivacity is to fulgurite as ineffable is to...

A) infrangible
B) irrefragable
C) inion
D) vicereine

Remember, your SAT score determines your entire life!
Grammar-based process of elimination leaves only c and d.

Judging from your avatar, I'm thinking you must mean C.
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Old 29th November 2018, 01:32 PM   #70
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Back to the OP for a moment: I get the feeling that this person's new vagina won't make anyone else happy either.
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Old 29th November 2018, 01:47 PM   #71
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Not every trans is the same trans, it's why I hate labels.
people have different reasons to do what they do.

Seems to me the OP has bigger issues.

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Old 29th November 2018, 02:45 PM   #72
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RE: The thread title. This reminds me of the classic Aladdin, where the evil magician walks down the street yelling "New lamps for old." In both cases the ignorant woman removes a functional rub activated gene shooting model and swaps it for an alternate cosmetic version that lacks most of the important functions, and doesn't necessarily look any better.
Typical woman.

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Old 29th November 2018, 03:19 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Nonsense. You can't add zeros to produce a non-zero number.
Not even with ginger synergy - or gynergy!
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Old 29th November 2018, 03:42 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Not even with ginger synergy - or gynergy!
"Gynergy" sounds like a 19th century word for pathological levels of female libido.
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Old 29th November 2018, 04:27 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
"Gynergy" sounds like a 19th century word for pathological levels of female libido.
What's not to like about that!
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 29th November 2018, 06:12 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Not even with ginger synergy - or gynergy!
Shouldn’t that be gingergy?
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Old 29th November 2018, 08:14 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Back to the OP for a moment: I get the feeling that this person's new vagina won't make anyone else happy either.
I dunno. I feel like there's a surgically-attached schadenboner to be found in that op-ed somewhere.
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Old 29th November 2018, 08:46 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Being a transperson myself, and having numerous trans friends in various states of transitioning or non-transitioning, I'd have to say that this person, assuming this person is who and what she says she is, has some serious mental issues that are not even remotely related to her being or not being transgender. Transpeople can suffer from any mental disorder that cispeople can, and this appears to be one of those cases.

I say appears to be, because I'm not necessarily convinced that this person is who she says she is. This entire thing reads like a page from the TERF conspiracy theory manual. She hits nearly all of their anti-trans propaganda points -- trans is just a mental illness, transwomen are only looking to invade female spaces, transpeople are "turned" trans rather than being born trans, GRS is nothing but genital mutilation and hormone therapy is inevitably damaging and not valid treatment, and so on. Her reference to Solanas kind of cements this view.

The options I see are:

1) She's trans, but has a lot of unrelated mental issues, and likely some internalized-oppression issues.
2) She's not trans, but has an untreated mental disorder that has her seriously confused about who and what she is.
3) She's a TERF, or a useful idiot spewing TERF anti-trans propaganda, trying to discredit transpeoples' experiences.

I'm leaning heavily toward 3 at this time, but the other two are equally likely.

What I do know is that there will be a whole lot of TERFs, religious nutjobs, and other anti-trans crusaders who will hold her up as epitomizing all transpeople and being typical of trans experience.
Originally Posted by pharphis View Post
It really does read like a strawperson. I don't normally think such a possibility is worthy of consideration, though. Weird
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
The thing read weirdly to me but now that you mention it, you might be right. Almost reads like something written to smear trans people.
Originally Posted by luchog View Post
A dozen or so years ago, I would have considered the possibility to be laughable, but given everything I've learned about the various disinformation campaigns, and about the various anti-minority crusaders out there (racist, sexist, anti-LGBTQ, etc.), combined with what I've been learning about the burgeoning TERF movement in the last year (and their leaders/organizations like Cathy Brennan and Get the L Out), as well as activities by religious right organizations like the Pacific Justice Institute, I can more readily believe that this is yet another disinfo tactic.

Not that I'm saying it definitively is a disinformation troll or agent provocateur, after all it could just be a mentally ill individual who has had the bad fortunate to be unduly influenced by anti-trans rhetoric, but it does have a lot of the hallmarks, and fits the conspiracy theories far too neatly.
Here's her bio:

https://www.andrealongchu.com/full-bio/

And her CV:

https://static1.squarespace.com/stat...CV+7-26-18.pdf

And here's her GFM:

https://www.gofundme.com/buy-me-a-new-body

Where she links to other portions of her body of work, including her Twitter feed. Apparently she's written several articles for a wide range of publications. I'm sure that with an evidence trail like that, you truth-seekers will be able to expose this fraud in no time.

Tell me one thing, though: Is the NYT in on the hoax, or were they fooled too?

Last edited by theprestige; 29th November 2018 at 08:49 PM.
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Old 30th November 2018, 12:29 AM   #79
pharphis
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I don't think they ARE a fake person or controlled opposition or whatever. I just think it reads that way.
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Old 30th November 2018, 12:55 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Here's her bio:

https://www.andrealongchu.com/full-bio/

And her CV:

https://static1.squarespace.com/stat...CV+7-26-18.pdf

And here's her GFM:

https://www.gofundme.com/buy-me-a-new-body

Where she links to other portions of her body of work, including her Twitter feed. Apparently she's written several articles for a wide range of publications. I'm sure that with an evidence trail like that, you truth-seekers will be able to expose this fraud in no time.

Tell me one thing, though: Is the NYT in on the hoax, or were they fooled too?
I think that people have to accept that this is her lived experience. She is under no obligation to be positive about her life, body or experiences just to validate others.

Having been close at one time to someone who was transitioning I do recognise anxieties that my friend had.

1) That she mourned the girlhood she never had. She did have an interest in what it was like to grow up a girl. She wanted to vicariously share the experience. At times her need could be uncomfortable for me.
2) Hormone therapy does affect the emotions. Interestingly about 50% of M to F TG people express sexual attraction to women pre transitioning; half of those will change their sexual preference post hormone therapy.
3) Surgery is not great. Vaginas need daily maintenance, this is a constant reminder that one is TG. One does not transition to being a woman, one is in a constant state of transitioning. Surgery for F to M is even worse.

The phrase that her vagina is an open sore in the op-ed I read as being metaphorical rather than literal. The open sore being her continual need to maintain her femininity by artificial means. It is an open psychic sore.

We know people are capable of being irrational, but those irrational feelings are real to them, we should recognise their validity. For TG people there are a series of summits, coming out and living as a woman, getting hormone therapy, getting surgery, more surgery; each is the greatest challenge, then once is completed there is another challenge, it is only natural that there is a come down.

The reality is a proportion of people subsequently regret decisions they made around transitioning, particularly as it relates to fertility. There are many life affirming narratives of transitioning, but it is not inappropriate for someone to say that for some it can also be a trial.
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