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Old 30th November 2018, 02:51 PM   #81
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
'Salon has been unprofitable through its entire history. Since 2007, the company has been dependent upon repeated cash injections from board Chairman John Warnock and William Hambrecht, father of former Salon CEO Elizabeth Hambrecht. During the nine months ending in December 31, 2012, these cash contributions amounted to $3.4 million, compared to revenue in the same period of $2.7 million'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salon_(website)

One of the most "popular" Leftist propaganda site breaks even, and that's with paying its staff crumbs.

'So if The Huffington Post -- which is 10-years-old, hauls in more than 200 million unique visitors a month and cranks out roughly 1,200 posts daily on the backs of reportedly poorly paid or unpaid writers -- can't turn a profit on $146 million in revenue, then how are the other, venture-capital fueled sites with smaller audiences and fewer relationships with advertisers supposed to achieve profitability?'

https://adage.com/article/media/huff...evenue/299293/
HuffPo broke even, I call that wise tax calculating.

I have a business, there are paper write-offs like depreciation, and past losses. Not sure where they are with that, if your source is reliable, not to mention a single year is not decades in the red.

They also look very successful, maybe money is not the goal:
Awards
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Old 30th November 2018, 02:54 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
Racism exists and is wrong.

I think we can all agree to that.

What makes an everyday event like bullying newsworthy?

An uncommon angle to it. Man bites dog.

So I think the sad side effect of painting a lot of questionably racist events ( ___while black) as egregiously racist is the implication that these must be the worst instances of racism out there to garner so much coverage and outrage. And when ultimately, someone getting the cops called on them and then let go, or getting bullied, just isn't that bad of a fate compared to the struggles everyone faces in their lives.
Cancer or getting foreclosed on for instance.
It's kind of "meh" big deal. Got bullied, who didn't?
Cops shooting unarmed innocent black men is well documented.

As for the bullying, you don't know if racism is an issue in that town but there's a good chance it is.
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Old 30th November 2018, 02:56 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
'Salon has been unprofitable through its entire history. Since 2007, the company has been dependent upon repeated cash injections from board Chairman John Warnock and William Hambrecht, father of former Salon CEO Elizabeth Hambrecht. During the nine months ending in December 31, 2012, these cash contributions amounted to $3.4 million, compared to revenue in the same period of $2.7 million'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salon_(website)

One of the most "popular" Leftist propaganda site breaks even, and that's with paying its staff crumbs.

'So if The Huffington Post -- which is 10-years-old, hauls in more than 200 million unique visitors a month and cranks out roughly 1,200 posts daily on the backs of reportedly poorly paid or unpaid writers -- can't turn a profit on $146 million in revenue, then how are the other, venture-capital fueled sites with smaller audiences and fewer relationships with advertisers supposed to achieve profitability?'

https://adage.com/article/media/huff...evenue/299293/
Those haven't been running for decades. And not making a profit is not the same as losing money, by the way. You can run quite a long time breaking even. All a derail anyway, and as it looks, a pointless one at that.
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Old 30th November 2018, 03:03 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
You can't pay your bills in influence.
Very true. That's why billionaires never contribute to political campaigns.
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Old 30th November 2018, 03:05 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Cops shooting unarmed innocent black men is well documented.

As for the bullying, you don't know if racism is an issue in that town but there's a good chance it is.
Great.
What does any of that have to do with the post you quoted?
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Old 30th November 2018, 03:39 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by baron View Post

Funny, because that's where I saw it first. They even showed a second video of the kid's sister. I guess I imagined it.


Oh no, please don't say you won't discuss it! What can I do to change your mind?

I'm joking.
What, you saw it first being showed so much on prime time media that it was second only to Brexit? That doesn't even make sense.

It certainly was NOT shown so much on prime time media that it was second only to Brexit. It was shown, at least once, as your anecdote shows.

If you can't get the basic facts right you should go away, get them right, and re present your post. Of course all the idiots here are rushing to engage with your falsehood, but that's because they are idiots. There's a reason International Skeptics Forum is not setting the world agenda, you know.

Your original post was factually inaccurate and therefore any discussion based on it is worthless.
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Old 30th November 2018, 03:42 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by PursuedByABear View Post
Of course all the idiots here are rushing to engage with your falsehood, but that's because they are idiots.
...welcome to the forum?
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Old 30th November 2018, 03:47 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post

They also look very successful, maybe money is not the goal:
Awards
Ariana Huffington was definitely not hurting for cash when she started the HuffPo. It's almost a perfect definition of a vanity publication, named after herself and everything.

As for Salon, they remind me of Slate, publishers that tried to monetize digital content way back in the early days. The Wall St. Journal was successful, but many, many of these sites were not, no matter their political slant.
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Old 30th November 2018, 08:35 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Deflect.Deflect.Deflect.
That has become the White Power Rangers main tactic:To try to portray themselves as the victims of discrimination.
Man you people love arguing with yourselves. Not once did I say anything remotely similar to "portraying themselves as the victims of discrimination." Now address the argument and try not to Deflect.Deflect.Deflect.
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Old 30th November 2018, 08:50 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
List of digital media companies that have been operating at a loss for several decades:
1 - Huffington Post breaks even
1 - Salon has lost money for one decade.

I'm underwhelmed.
List of digital media companies that have been operating at a loss for several decades:

1 - Huffington Post breaks even
1 - Salon has lost money for one decade over two decades.

You're better than this.

"Salon has been unprofitable through its entire history."

Launched April 18, 1995; 23 years ago

The Daily Beast refuses to disclose whether it's profitable or not.

"Asked whether the Daily Beast is profitable these days, a spokeswoman for the company declined to answer."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...=.f2413cffa4a8

I'm sure you can figure out if they are or aren't, skeptic.

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Old 30th November 2018, 09:12 PM   #91
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Breaking even counts as "unprofitable", too, so we still only know Salon has lost money for a decade.

Either way, if you have a psychological need for Soros/JewGold to be financing the media, far be it from me to begrudge you that belief.
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Old 30th November 2018, 09:22 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
Great.
What does any of that have to do with the post you quoted?
Did you not see the highlighted sentence? "What makes an everyday event like bullying newsworthy? "

I was answering that question.
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Old 30th November 2018, 09:42 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
You can't pay your bills in influence.
*Looks at the current tax law*

The Koch Brothers disagree.
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Old 30th November 2018, 10:09 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
List of digital media companies that have been operating at a loss for several decades:

1 - Huffington Post breaks even
1 - Salon has lost money for one decade over two decades.

You're better than this.

"Salon has been unprofitable through its entire history."

Launched April 18, 1995; 23 years ago

The Daily Beast refuses to disclose whether it's profitable or not.

"Asked whether the Daily Beast is profitable these days, a spokeswoman for the company declined to answer."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...=.f2413cffa4a8

I'm sure you can figure out if they are or aren't, skeptic.
Yeah, we really need to see those tax returns! Drain the swamp!
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Old 1st December 2018, 02:53 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Here's an example. At 1:02 in this video, a Muslim woman calls a white lady a "white slag" on a London subway. The white lady, being white, tries to scold the Muslim for being "racist." Of course, it has no effect. She doesn't care if calling someone a white slag is "racist" as there are no social penalties for that behavior in her group. "Racism" is typically something only white people concern themselves with. And calling a white person "racist" works well to control them. So why would you hand someone else your greatest weapon?
Usual cherry-picked bollocks. I commuted on the London Underground five days a week for 16 years until the end of last year (now I'm down to two days), frequently use it outside of a work context, and 99.9% of the time it's more like the Warsaw "example" than anything that precedes it in the video, only nobody talks to each other. I have, though, seen a fair few drunk white blokes harassing people late at night.

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Old 1st December 2018, 03:05 AM   #96
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It was only a matter of time. Now our Prime Minister has weighed in on this incident, because the week-long international news coverage isn't quite enough.

Originally Posted by May
I thought it was absolutely terrible ... what (he) went through. Our thoughts are with him. But I think if you look at what happened, the real spirit of Britain came in the response of the British people to that incident. As you say, most people were sickened and angered by it. The huge response of support ... that we have seen from the British people shows our true spirit and shows we are a welcoming people.
It's difficult to say much about this other to question why our Prime Minister, in the midst of negotiating BREXIT and dealing with fraught international relations at the G20, is taking time out to comment on a run-of-the-mill playground incident, and of course by implication further demonising a 16 year old school boy for doing nothing more than indulge in an episode of low level bullying.

Maybe it's the same mechanism by which a playground pushing incident is followed by a protest of 30 adult Muslims at the school gate, and the local imam demands and receives an hour long meeting with the school headmaster to discuss the matter. Quite why a random male is entitled to meet with teachers to talk about someone else's child is a mystery. If it had been a Christian child would the local vicar set up shop outside the school and demand to meet with the teachers?
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Old 1st December 2018, 03:11 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
The GoFundMe is absurd and I did wonder about the police involvement. According to certain accounts a group of four of five kids had already been arrested due to a previous incident at the school and had appeared in court. I don't know if police involvement is the default now but certainly in my day I saw dozens of incidents without a single copper in sight (actually, when a 12 year old kid stabbed another for tearing up his French book I presume the police were involved although I didn't see them).
It generally isn't. Incidents usually have to be pretty extreme (i.e. resulting in injury, but even then not automatically) or documented like this one was. Similarly, there is a reluctance to properly deal with assaults by pupils on staff, who are certainly actively discouraged from reporting - let alone pressing charges against - or suing their attacker.
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Old 1st December 2018, 03:12 AM   #98
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Correction to a slight inaccuracy in my previous post. I said that the imam had a meeting with the headteacher. It was actually the imam and three associates who had a meeting with the head teacher, the school governors and representatives from the local council. Hands up the parents who've had such a response when their kid has been bullied at school (let alone someone else's).
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Old 1st December 2018, 03:27 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
As for the bullying, you don't know if racism is an issue in that town but there's a good chance it is.
Huddersfield has had a large ethnic minority population since the 1960s, mostly Muslim, albeit South Asian.

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Old 1st December 2018, 05:16 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
The Syrian sounds like a decent lad and certainly doesn't come across like a trouble-maker, but the over-reaction by the media and on social platforms to what is an everyday school yard incident is, IMO, so vastly over the top I can't bring myself to care about any of those involved.
You have identified the problem as the social media over-reaction. You should try to hold on to your initial ideas rather than allow it to cloud your judgment.

And I presume you must care somewhat to have written such a long OP.
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Old 1st December 2018, 05:22 AM   #101
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What is and what isn't productive in a public debate over social issues is a question of hindsight.
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Old 1st December 2018, 07:01 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
You have identified the problem as the social media over-reaction. You should try to hold on to your initial ideas rather than allow it to cloud your judgment.

And I presume you must care somewhat to have written such a long OP.
What I care about most, and the reason for my OP, is the hysteria regarding the case. If it had just been a video and a report on a local website then I would have cared more about the bullying aspect. There seems no doubt about it that this Syrian kid, Jamal, has been subject to bullying. Do I care? Well, Jamal and his family are in receipt of £200K on the strength of his experience so with that in mind I wouldn't rank his case above any of the other hundreds of thousands of bullying incidents occurring contemporarily in this country.
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Old 1st December 2018, 07:23 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
What I care about most, and the reason for my OP, is the hysteria regarding the case.
Yes, and that's the problem, first, with social media in which one video can hit some kind of sweet spot of popularity which by virtue of being slightly more popular gets more attention and is spread further and wider than other similar videos, and second, the lazy oldschool media which knows that running a story is a) easy, because the video has already been produced, b) morally uncomplicated, c) good clickbait that can compete for the market share of attention. Then of course, because it is in the news, politicians have to be seen to be doing something, after all, this is morally uncomplicated and nobody...well...almost nobody is going to get upset at a politician who states bleedin' obvious that "Racism is bad, hmmmkay!?"

For those of us with our critical faculties, we can ask ourselves, if we wish to have that debate, is whether the hysteria does anything to alter what I previously thought about racism.

Answer for me, no! Racism is still bad.

But what if the victim got a lot of money from well-wishers because the incident hacks people's natural empathy, and in similarly viral-like behaviour ends up way overcompensating the boy's family?

Answer for me, no! Racism is still bad.

But what if the bully himself ends up getting bullied by people because the incident hacks people's natural feelings of retribution against hideous injustice, and in similarly viral-like behaviour ends up with people posting progressively more unhinged calls for revenge?

Answer for me, no! Racism is still bad.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 1st December 2018, 07:30 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
It was only a matter of time. Now our Prime Minister has weighed in on this incident, because the week-long international news coverage isn't quite enough.

Oh noes! Even Theresa May is part of the leftist plot!
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Old 1st December 2018, 08:04 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Yes, and that's the problem, first, with social media in which one video can hit some kind of sweet spot of popularity which by virtue of being slightly more popular gets more attention and is spread further and wider than other similar videos, and second, the lazy oldschool media which knows that running a story is a) easy, because the video has already been produced, b) morally uncomplicated, c) good clickbait that can compete for the market share of attention. Then of course, because it is in the news, politicians have to be seen to be doing something, after all, this is morally uncomplicated and nobody...well...almost nobody is going to get upset at a politician who states bleedin' obvious that "Racism is bad, hmmmkay!?"

For those of us with our critical faculties, we can ask ourselves, if we wish to have that debate, is whether the hysteria does anything to alter what I previously thought about racism.

Answer for me, no! Racism is still bad.

But what if the victim got a lot of money from well-wishers because the incident hacks people's natural empathy, and in similarly viral-like behaviour ends up way overcompensating the boy's family?

Answer for me, no! Racism is still bad.

But what if the bully himself ends up getting bullied by people because the incident hacks people's natural feelings of retribution against hideous injustice, and in similarly viral-like behaviour ends up with people posting progressively more unhinged calls for revenge?

Answer for me, no! Racism is still bad.
That's fine. I believe that overall, hysteria like this is unproductive. Not least because in this case no racism has been established, only bullying. The media initially reported the bully had been charged with racially aggravated assault. This claim was fabricated and accounts were quickly 'corrected'. There was no racial language in the video and no evidence of race playing a part. The key point is that this is now seen across the country and indeed across the world as an example of a racist attack on a refugee who was not only attacked but waterboarded by a violent racist. In what way could that be productive in the long term?
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Old 1st December 2018, 08:22 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
That's fine. I believe that overall, hysteria like this is unproductive. Not least because in this case no racism has been established, only bullying. The media initially reported the bully had been charged with racially aggravated assault. This claim was fabricated and accounts were quickly 'corrected'. There was no racial language in the video and no evidence of race playing a part. The key point is that this is now seen across the country and indeed across the world as an example of a racist attack on a refugee who was not only attacked but waterboarded by a violent racist. In what way could that be productive in the long term?
I did wonder if the "I'll drown you!" thing was a reference to the drowned Syrian boy who made the news. In which case, it adds another level of ugliness, whether you want to call it racist or not.

What is your opinion on that?
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 1st December 2018, 08:29 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I did wonder if the "I'll drown you!" thing was a reference to the drowned Syrian boy who made the news. In which case, it adds another level of ugliness, whether you want to call it racist or not.

What is your opinion on that?
It could be but I don't see evidence of that. He happened to be holding a water bottle and poured the contents over the boy's face. I would have thought that if he'd meant it as a reference he would have made it clear, as in "I'll waterboard you," or "I'll drown you like that kid on the news." Now if it could be established that he did mean this, and bearing in mind the Syrian was a refugee from Homs, then it should be taken into account in his punishment. As it is, it's the mainstream media jumping to conclusion for ratings, conclusions which have already resulted in death threats, rape threats and physical intimidation mandating the boy concerned and his mother flee the country.
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Old 1st December 2018, 08:40 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
That's fine. I believe that overall, hysteria like this is unproductive. Not least because in this case no racism has been established, only bullying. The media initially reported the bully had been charged with racially aggravated assault. This claim was fabricated and accounts were quickly 'corrected'. There was no racial language in the video and no evidence of race playing a part. The key point is that this is now seen across the country and indeed across the world as an example of a racist attack on a refugee who was not only attacked but waterboarded by a violent racist. In what way could that be productive in the long term?
You say "the media" as if it is some monolithic organisation. Why not call out the actual media that made such a claim, surely that's the best way if you want change?
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Old 1st December 2018, 10:43 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Yes, and that's the problem, first, with social media in which one video can hit some kind of sweet spot of popularity which by virtue of being slightly more popular gets more attention and is spread further and wider than other similar videos, and second, the lazy oldschool media which knows that running a story is a) easy, because the video has already been produced, b) morally uncomplicated, c) good clickbait that can compete for the market share of attention. Then of course, because it is in the news, politicians have to be seen to be doing something, after all, this is morally uncomplicated and nobody...well...almost nobody is going to get upset at a politician who states bleedin' obvious that "Racism is bad, hmmmkay!?"

For those of us with our critical faculties, we can ask ourselves, if we wish to have that debate, is whether the hysteria does anything to alter what I previously thought about racism.

Answer for me, no! Racism is still bad.

But what if the victim got a lot of money from well-wishers because the incident hacks people's natural empathy, and in similarly viral-like behaviour ends up way overcompensating the boy's family?

Answer for me, no! Racism is still bad.

But what if the bully himself ends up getting bullied by people because the incident hacks people's natural feelings of retribution against hideous injustice, and in similarly viral-like behaviour ends up with people posting progressively more unhinged calls for revenge?

Answer for me, no! Racism is still bad.
The amount I hear "it's okay for a country of grown people to **** with a kid" makes me sick lately. Reminds me of the zero tolerance violence policies when I was a kid. "Violence is bad so we make no distinction and there is no mitigation. "

And it's going to have the same effect, those true ******** who emit violence/racisim won't care, and those caught in the crossfire ate going to become bitter and disenfranchised.

But racisim is bad so let's not look any deeper than " racist had bad day victim got money".

Seriously , change racisim to drugs and tell me what character you sound like. That sould really make you question yourself.
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Old 1st December 2018, 11:38 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
The media is not satisfied with vilifying teenage girls working at fast-food restaurants, now it has small children in its crosshairs.
What?

Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
What's interesting in most of these leftist digital media companies operate at a loss. Their business model is not viable yet they are still used to target and harass civilians who committed--according to their creeds--a transgression.
Can you name some of these companies so we have a better idea of what you're talking about?

Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
The real question is who is funding them and why?
What's your theory?
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Old 1st December 2018, 12:23 PM   #111
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My apologies for personalizing things, Baron. Hopefully you're aware that my positive observations weren't sarcastic.
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Old 1st December 2018, 12:25 PM   #112
Baylor
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
What?
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b0376c9e67fd62
Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Can you name some of these companies so we have a better idea of what you're talking about?
Already did. You can add Slate to that list.
Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
What's your theory?
I don't have one. The person talking about Jews and Soros made that up herself.

Last edited by Baylor; 1st December 2018 at 12:27 PM.
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Old 1st December 2018, 12:52 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
The real question is who is funding them and why?
Did you notice the wikipedia article you cited about Salon outlined where the money comes from?
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Old 1st December 2018, 12:56 PM   #114
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I did and you're not smart for pointing it out.
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Old 1st December 2018, 01:48 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
I did and you're not smart for pointing it out.
Awesome. So you can lay one conspiracy theory to rest, right?
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Old 1st December 2018, 02:42 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
True, but the BBC has a truly enormous digital media presence. Then there's the Guardian, Daily Mirror, etc. The overall media bias is well to the left.
And yet the 'left' think the BBC is biassed towards the right.
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Old 1st December 2018, 03:22 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
The amount I hear "it's okay for a country of grown people to **** with a kid" makes me sick lately. Reminds me of the zero tolerance violence policies when I was a kid. "Violence is bad so we make no distinction and there is no mitigation. "

And it's going to have the same effect, those true ******** who emit violence/racisim won't care, and those caught in the crossfire ate going to become bitter and disenfranchised.

But racisim is bad so let's not look any deeper than " racist had bad day victim got money".

Seriously , change racisim to drugs and tell me what character you sound like. That sould really make you question yourself.
wut?
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Old 1st December 2018, 03:25 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Awesome. So you can lay one conspiracy theory to rest, right?
Which one?
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Old 2nd December 2018, 04:20 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
My apologies for personalizing things, Baron. Hopefully you're aware that my positive observations weren't sarcastic.
No worries. What do you think of the media coverage and reaction to this case?
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Old 2nd December 2018, 07:29 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
No worries. What do you think of the media coverage and reaction to this case?
Overboard.
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