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5th December 2017, 05:05 PM | #481 |
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Here's a definition of pressure:
Pressure is an expression of force exerted on a surface per unit area. It's from this site: http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/pressure It doesn't use the word container. You seem to believe because you found a definition of pressure that uses the word container a container is necessary for pressure to exist. How does the fact that there is a definition of pressure that doesn't use the word affect your idea about the need for a container for pressure to exist? Assuming you are serious, I have wondered for awhile if you just don't understand the mechanism by which planets (including earth) prevent their atmospheres from escaping. This is a link to the Wikipedia article on the atmosphere of the earth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Earth If you go to the section of "Principal Layers" you will see a description of the layers of the atmosphere. One take away from this section is how the atmospheric pressure of earth gradually declines until it is at the pressure of the interplanetary space. You might in particular take a look at the exosphere article. This is the layer thats pressure gradually declines to the pressure of interplanetary space. It is reasonable to wonder if some gas doesn't escape from exosphere into interplanetary space. Gas molecule speeds are distributed and even if the average speed of the molecules is not large enough to escape earth's gravity some of the molecules near the edge of the exosphere are going fast enough that they do escape the earth's atmosphere so in a sense you're right in that a solid container would be necessary to completely prevent the loss of gas to interplanetary space. However this is a very slow process that is really only significant for the lighter molecules in the atmosphere like helium and hydrogen. |
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5th December 2017, 05:10 PM | #482 |
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5th December 2017, 05:17 PM | #483 |
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lol, wonder how scuba works in the delusional dumbed down flat earth world of woo.
GPS? Oh, Celestical navigation. Right, Gravity does not exist. No clue Newtonian physics are enough to go to the moon, wait, physics does not exist. (okay, it exists, but flat earth faith based believers don't have a practical knowledge of physics) The swimming pool analogy is funny. Don't worry, if you could do physics/math/science, you could cherry pick/quote mine science to support the flat earth woo.
Quote:
six sigma of stupid, flat earth claims - is there an award for that https://www.villanovau.com/lp/six-si...RoCcUAQAvD_BwE Is there a six sigma certification for woo Gee, there is no container for the atmosphere, I have flown near 50,000 feet, did not hit the container, but we needed oxygen because the pressure was too low to sustain a human. Denying science, the woo of flat earth religion. Are your GPS satellites in side the dome of flat earth woo. You don't understand pressure, and thus have no idea what the pressure is on a standard day at 27,000 feet, or 50,000 feet. Then when we have rapid decompressions or slow decompressions in aircraft, you have to deny we pass out in 10 seconds at 45,000 feet pressure altitude. Or we fall asleep like Payne Stewart's flight crew and passengers, due to the lack of pressure, in the open atmosphere of earth, when we fail to close our "container", the plane. oops, you don't do science, you do woo. How far is your sun, or the north star? I thought only Russians were flat earthers |
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5th December 2017, 05:39 PM | #484 |
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Compass discussion dropped hurriedly
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5th December 2017, 06:01 PM | #485 | |||
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Your own quote disagrees with you. It says the pressure is the force the gas exerts on the walls of it's container, not the force the container puts on the gas.
How come this railcar decided to increase it's force? Is it committing suicide?
By the way, you never did explain how on a flat Earth the stars circle above the |
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5th December 2017, 06:44 PM | #486 |
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5th December 2017, 06:52 PM | #487 |
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Who have you exposed us to? There's no body of people seriously pondering the spherical nature of our planet. What's the venue of for your victory dance? Is it other flat earth believers? So what? Do you think you're going to make some change in science or technology? Are you expecting some alteration in geography text books? Are you going to show this thread to the Air Force and Navy they'll stop computing terrain masking by curvature of the earth?
In short, you've exposed us to people who never mattered to us, and still don't. |
5th December 2017, 06:56 PM | #488 |
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5th December 2017, 08:09 PM | #489 |
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5th December 2017, 10:22 PM | #490 |
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I'm not Daniel but I think the basic idea is that the Sun moves around the flat earth illuminating different parts as it passes over them. The only way that I can see remotely how this would work is if the Sun is like a flood light. If it's a big bright ball the transition from dark to light would be gradual and everybody on earth would always be able to see the sun albeit glowing dimly.
A problem with the flood light idea is that it seems like you'd see the dark side of the Sun. (Not that this is the only problem with the idea ) ETA: In thinking about this a bit more, the flood light needs to produce a pattern that illuminates about half the earth and it rotates around a point that the north pole is continuously illuminated for half the year and in the dark for the other half of the year. But I don't understand something here because I can't see how to produce the seasons. But the sun flood light already needs to be pretty trick since it needs to vary the illumination so that the areas near the edge get as much light as the areas directly under the Sun. So I think what is required here is an arduino processor to carefully control the flood lamp output to make it so that every part of the earth gets the amount of illumination appropriate for the season. |
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6th December 2017, 01:47 AM | #491 |
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6th December 2017, 01:49 AM | #492 |
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The question of whether Daniel is actually serious about this, or is simply trolling is an interesting one (at least to me).
Daniel's method of debate consists largely of these things:
It is also notable that the scientists on this forum are unanimous in saying that Daniel is at times misrepresenting science, and at others displaying a woeful ignorance of basic science. At the same time, the Christians on the forum linked to upthread, in which Daniel is engaging in the same (i.e. identical in all the above points) debate, are saying that Daniel is making their faith look ridiculous. Given all this, I would like to know from Daniel whether anyone has been convinced and converted by these tactics. Personally, I think it highly unlikely, but it is just possible that someone out there has been mocked into submission, or won over by some blatant cherry-picking. Daniel: has this ever happened? If not, you might want to consider a couple of options: Firstly, your approach is not bearing fruit, assuming your aim is to persuade rather than alienate or annoy. Perhaps a change of tactics might be more productive? Secondly, there is always the possibility that you are just wrong. Have you considered the fact that virtually no-one agrees with you might be worth thinking about? |
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6th December 2017, 03:27 AM | #493 |
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Everything you describe is typical of some of the Creationist writing I’ve encountered over the years. The point of such an approach is, like a Jack Chick tract, not to convert anyone, but to reassure the extant believers. Nobody was ever converted by a Chick tract, but they were reassured that they were doing something Godly by giving them out. Daniel’s approach is not about converting anyone. It’s about reassuring himself if he is a true believer and reassuring other true believers if they encountered this thread. The whole point is to preach to the choir. I suspect Daniel is a troll but he could be a true believer in the flat earth theory who isn’t very good at the harsher creationist style rhetoric. |
6th December 2017, 03:57 AM | #494 |
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This just doesn't magically become true no matter how many times you assert it. You have repeatedly been shown this. You have also repeatedly dodged the question of where and what this container is as we undeniably have air pressure on the Earth - unless this is one of the things you also deny.
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6th December 2017, 04:04 AM | #495 |
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He doesn't deny that we have air pressure on the Earth; he denies that there is vacuum anywhere else. He also accepts that air pressure varies with altitude, but won't take any notice of the suggestion that it might vary over several orders of magnitude; at that point he fringe resets, repeats the mantra and hurls abuse.
Dave |
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6th December 2017, 05:02 AM | #496 |
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Well, firstly let me thank you for the education: I had not heard of Chick tracts before. This is a great site for learning things.
You may be right about this: I really don't think Daniel is here to learn anything, or to engage in any kind of honest conversation. In the years he has been posting, he hasn't changed his tune one whit, and keeps posting the same questions over and over again, whilst ignoring or dismissing the answers. I wonder if the name is a reference to Daniel in the lion's den, and that he is, as you say, merely proclaiming his faith for his benefit, and that of other likeminded zealots. |
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6th December 2017, 05:15 AM | #497 |
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Indeed I believe it is, though it's also a handy anagram of 'denial' Sadly for her, to mix a biblical metaphor, in this forum she can't rely on anyone closing our mouths while she interprets dreams.
Daniel's use of language appears in a number of places on the web in identical forms and presentational style, which is how I came across This page and this youtube video. Are we in danger of focusing attention on the debater rather than the debate? Possibly, but when one side of the discussion is clearly not actually interested in engaging in meaningful debate or an exchange of idea it's useful to know that their tactics are employed elsewhere with the same resulting frustration and annoyance. |
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6th December 2017, 05:31 AM | #498 |
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6th December 2017, 05:39 AM | #499 |
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For there to be a debate both sides have to offer opposing points and arguments. What we have in this thread is a large group of people trying to have a conversation with someone who keeps responding with rambling insults best paraphrased as “I reject anything about science that might contradict my claims and I’m boggled you don’t agree with my unsupported, vague assertions! And you’re all poopieheads!” |
6th December 2017, 06:51 AM | #500 |
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There was a similar conversation about what to do with Holocaust deniers, who I think are quite similar in their tactics and lack of interest in honest debate. The conclusion was that we, and others like us, should continue to engage them, and I believe the same reasoning applies here. Continued engagement would have a dual effect: firstly, it would contrast the two approaches (reasoned, evidence-based, at least halfway polite attempts at dialogue, versus scornful, ignorant zealotry), and leave the deniers looking as foolish as they should. Secondly, it would prevent them from claiming victory, which they would if their points went unanswered.
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6th December 2017, 07:19 AM | #501 |
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Yeah, pretty much par for the course:
- Present strawmen and unsubstantiated claims. - Demand that opponents prove well-known science all over just for you and in a way you specify (and which mostly won'r work, of course). - Ignore or flatly refuse all counterarguments. (Add some insults and condescending remarks). - Repeat strawmen and unsubstantiated claims, now with bolded letters, etc. (Add insults and condescending remarks). - Ignore or flatly refuse all counterarguments. (Add some insults and condescending remarks). ..... repeat several times till it becomes too obvious that you are contradicting yourself and making absolutely no headway. - Stomp off declaring that you have won. Well, thanks to all who patiently play the game, so we ensure that this nonsense is never left unopposed. It is tedious, but it has to be done. Hans |
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6th December 2017, 08:22 AM | #502 |
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6th December 2017, 09:20 AM | #503 |
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner. Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so. - Manifesto |
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6th December 2017, 09:29 AM | #504 |
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner. Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so. - Manifesto |
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6th December 2017, 10:46 AM | #505 |
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6th December 2017, 05:44 PM | #506 |
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Flat Earth Internation Conference 2017!!!
Not only that but how would they explain how the stars are different in Australia compared with the Uk without hemispheres. I don’t think Daniel’s for real. What I find almost as odd as a flat earther is someone who spends obviously quite a bit of time constructing this long garbled and arrogant posts just for fun? What do trolls like this get out of it? Don’t understand. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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6th December 2017, 05:49 PM | #507 |
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7th December 2017, 02:23 AM | #508 |
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7th December 2017, 09:18 AM | #509 |
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Oh, that's easy.
A spherical earth, with gravity and a non earth-centered universe complete with the big bang theory and all that entails, along with evolution and other scientific discoveries pretty much removes God from the equation entirely. It's bad enough lightning rods diverted God's vengeance, a non-earth centered universe takes him out of the picture altogether. The best way to put God back into the equation is with the earth being the center of the universe again, with the earth being special, and everything revolving around US. A flat earth does that nicely. Of course, that flat earth model, along with the denial of evolution, also has the nice ancillary benefit of putting humans back at the top of all living creatures in the universe. That has a certain amount of appeal as well. I mean, we must be at the center, because everything in the universe revolves around US. It certainly appears to be so. Right? Hank |
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner. Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so. - Manifesto |
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7th December 2017, 09:57 AM | #510 |
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Which makes me wonder if the flat-earthers have an answer to this question:
If proving the earth was flat would validate certain religions, why haven't the religious governments of various countries refused to go along with the supposed global effort to suppress the truth and launched their own expeditions to the edge? I'm thinking of Iran and Saudi Arabia here specifically, but any country where a significant portion of the electorate would be delighted to have their fundamentalist views proven would do. Like, say, America. Apparently 1 in 4 Americans believes the sun goes round the earth. That would be a guaranteed vote-winner. |
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7th December 2017, 11:28 AM | #511 |
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Zensmack (LastChild, Laughing Assassin, RazetheFlag, Wastrel, TruthbyDecree) - Working his way up the sock puppet chain, trying to overtake P'Doh. Or, are they the same? Quote me where I said conspiracists use evidence. - mchapman Last edited by Disbelief; 7th December 2017 at 11:30 AM. Reason: Added units, would have been marked off for that. |
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7th December 2017, 12:36 PM | #512 |
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"The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here. |
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7th December 2017, 01:05 PM | #513 |
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner. Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so. - Manifesto |
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7th December 2017, 01:19 PM | #514 |
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Zensmack (LastChild, Laughing Assassin, RazetheFlag, Wastrel, TruthbyDecree) - Working his way up the sock puppet chain, trying to overtake P'Doh. Or, are they the same? Quote me where I said conspiracists use evidence. - mchapman |
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7th December 2017, 01:20 PM | #515 |
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7th December 2017, 01:25 PM | #516 |
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What it is that's supposed to be accelerating us? And how does one consolidate this with the supposed unmoving Earth at the centre of the universe? For a start that would mean that the entire universe is being accelerated upwards at 9.8m/s2 which considering that just the part of it we can see has a mass of about 1.5 x 1053 kg we are talking about absolutely extraordinary amounts of energy being required to achieve this. Where is it all coming from?
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7th December 2017, 01:31 PM | #517 |
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7th December 2017, 01:31 PM | #518 |
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Not only that, but how do you define "up" in space?
Oh, and if we're travelling at 6 times the speed of light, how come we can see colours? And if we're not in a vacuum, as Daniel seemed to be saying (never sure what he is actually trying to say, with all the contradictions), I'd suggest that travelling at that sort of speed would have meant things should be getting a little warm around here. |
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"The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here. |
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7th December 2017, 01:34 PM | #519 |
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What about "an all powerful God" don't you understand?
Also, Daniel indicated that he is not this flavor of flat earther. He believes the earth is stationary and flat. I really can't tell you what he thinks about gravity, other than his note that "science" can't even agree if gravity is Newtonian or Einsteinian. |
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7th December 2017, 03:25 PM | #520 |
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