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Old 19th December 2017, 12:01 PM   #641
beachnut
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Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
I can take a shot at the Begging The Question/Red Herring Fallacy, After you Respond to MY ACTUAL ARGUMENT...

How do you have a GAS PRESSURE (Atmospheric Pressure) WITHOUT a Container...."TO BEGIN WITH" ?? When...

"The "PRESSURE OF A GAS" is the force that the gas exerts on the WALLS OF IT'S CONTAINER".
http://chemistry.elmhurst.edu/vchemb...0pressure.html


regards
With respect to pressure you have no argument, you have cherry picked quotes, you have nonsense.

Take a plastic glove. Tie it off at or near sea level. Now travel to the mountains, and watch the glove expand. Oh noes, the walls of your container, the glove, have expanded due to pressure differences between sea level and higher up the mountain. Don't do this, the FEer anti-science fantasy of no gravity and flat earth will evaporate.

Why do fantasy anti-science claims require cherry picking and quote mining sources to support the lies of flat earth no gravity woo?

http://chemistry.elmhurst.edu/vchemb...0pressure.html
Your source says.
Quote:
Atmospheric pressure varies with height
oops, the walls come tumbling down...
You cherry pick quotes, and debunk yourself by including the source.

You have no argument. Regressing to the middle ages in thinking, is not an argument, it is a failed education, and willful ignorance.

This is comedy anti-science? You are joking right? Oh, your world has no gravity. Do you have hills in your world? Does this mean on a mountain your compass points down towards what?
Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
That's Interesting, thanks for bringing it up. How in the World can a Compass work in the Southern Hemisphere on a Sphere ?? Wouldn't the needle be buried in the ring?

regards
Really?
Add magnetic fields to the list of science FEers don't understand.
Prove a compass can't work on a spherical earth, and use some math/science/physics. Wait, FEers don't do science, they make up failed questions and think the delusions are arguments.

Is there a diagram how a compass works on a flat earth? How far away is the current north star in the flat earth fantasy world?
Post your flat earth map. How far is the sun? Show the geometry for the sun on the flat earth in a diagram.

What will globalist grandkids think when they see post by flat earth no gravity grandad posts? How do the flat earth fanatics explain eclipses.


FLAT EARTH INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE - it is all about the money.
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Old 19th December 2017, 12:38 PM   #642
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Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
Factually Incorrect. As spoken about previously (about 10 Times, complete with Examples) ... If there was a Limitation(s) in Range, then it/they would be Identified.
It's NOT Identified anywhere, Ergo...Range is not limited by anything other than it's inherent ballistics.
You are lying. The limitation in effective range for a surface target is identified. It is the horizon. That is also the limit for air targets, when they happen to be below the horizon.
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Old 19th December 2017, 12:57 PM   #643
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Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
So they can't sink ships... only small ships.
SO they are not primarily anti-ship missiles. They are anti missile missiles.

Quote:
Observations aren't Experiments.

Yes because there was no Experiment and is NO EXPERIMENT.
So what? You have to get over your obsession with formal experiments.

Daniel, where is the Sun? How far away and how large is it? Show your data.


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Old 19th December 2017, 01:04 PM   #644
MRC_Hans
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Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
1. Which 'gravity'... Einstienian or Newtonian ??

a. Is gravity a Force?
b. Is 'gravity' a Scientific Law or Scientific Theory?
c. What is the CAUSE of 'gravity'...?

2. Oh Never Mind...
Irrelevant.

Quote:
"A GAS is a sample of matter that conforms to the shape of a CONTAINER in which it is held and acquires a uniform density inside the CONTAINER, EVEN IN THE PRESENCE OF GRAVITY and regardless of the amount of substance in the CONTAINER. If not confined to a CONTAINER, gaseous matter, also known as vapor, WILL DISPERSE INTO SPACE."
http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/gas
Yes. I have news for you: Internet sites are not always the truth. In this case, while sincere, the explanation and definition is imperfect. Distribution of gas IS affected by gravity.

Quote:
If 'gravity' was a container (), then why do they distinctly separate each above?
I don't know, why don't you ask them?

Quote:
3. A Container is a Physical Barrier (Matter). So lol, please post the: Chemical Formula/Structure, Charge, Mass, Momentum, or Spin of 'gravity'...?
Fine. Then a container is not needed. Air has weight. Air can be retained by gravity. Live with it.


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Old 19th December 2017, 01:06 PM   #645
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Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
This isn't a Phenomenon, it's a Conjured Declaration.
(Sun height depending on position on Earth)

No, it is an observable and verifiable fact. You can verify it yourself, if you will.



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Old 19th December 2017, 01:15 PM   #646
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Originally Posted by Daniel View Post

"Formalized hypotheses contain two variables. One is "INDEPENDENT" and the other is "DEPENDENT". The independent variable is the one you, the "scientist" control and the dependent variable is the one that you observe and/or measure the results.
Yep.
Independent variable: Latitude of observation. Or, if you prefer, distance from the North Pole. You make observations in variable distances from the North Pole.

Dependent variable: Observed angle to the Sun at a given time.

Testable hypothesis: Observations will confirm that we observe the sun from a spheroid object.

Prediction: Sun angle will vary in a way that cannot be explained by triangulating the sun from a flat surface.

That's your experiment. If you don't believe the recorded results (hypothesis confirmed) you are welcome to go out and do the experiment yourself. It is relatively easy.


Have fun!

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Old 19th December 2017, 03:20 PM   #647
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Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
1. Which 'gravity'... Einstienian or Newtonian ??
General relativity reduces to Newtonian gravity in the appropriate limit.

http://www.math.uchicago.edu/~may/VI...ers/Tolish.pdf

Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
a. Is gravity a Force?
Technically it is a field. Like electro-magnetism is a field. However, unlike the electro-magnetic forces (resulting from those fields) the force of gravity is a fictitious or inertial force.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictitious_force

Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
b. Is 'gravity' a Scientific Law or Scientific Theory?
It is a Scientific Theory based on Scientific Laws.

Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
c. What is the CAUSE of 'gravity'...?
Matter and energy distribution. In general relativity that is represented by the stress energy tensor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stress...3energy_tensor

Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
2. Oh Never Mind...
No problem. At least the Sea Sparrow shtick was new but this ignorance of gravity routine is really old and played out. Again almost literally word for word that of another poster on another thread.
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Old 19th December 2017, 03:33 PM   #648
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I see Daniel's found another random insult to repeat ad nauseam:

Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
ps. You'd "FAIL" 5th Grade General Science.
My D.Phil examiners might not concur.

Dave
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Old 19th December 2017, 03:57 PM   #649
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
I see Daniel's found another random insult to repeat ad nauseam:



My D.Phil examiners might not concur.

Dave
Daniel would certainly fail 5th grade science. It's odd he says this considering "flat earth" and denial of gravity, combined with his lack of understanding of the word science would certainly lend a fail.

For him, this should be a complement...........
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Old 19th December 2017, 04:24 PM   #650
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Originally Posted by Daniel View Post

ps. You'd "FAIL" 5th Grade General Science.
I'm curious, do you feel you would have passed 5th grade general science with your views/arguments?

I'd argue you would have failed hard and likely had your mom and dad called in for a conference..........
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Old 19th December 2017, 04:25 PM   #651
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
SO they are not primarily anti-ship missiles. They are anti missile missiles.
Yep, Daniel's own citation notes it as a Surface to Air Missile in the very first sentence and then a number of times later. For the quote mined phrase I think the author was going for more of anti anti ship missile missile (an anti missile for anti ship missiles) but it didn't survive editing.
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Old 19th December 2017, 05:23 PM   #652
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Ah, Danielscience again.

Na, it's just "Science".



Quote:
It isn't science unless Daniel declares it to be science.

Na, it isn't "Science" unless it conforms to The Scientific Method 'duh':

Step 1: Observe a Phenomenon
Step 2: Lit Review
Step 3: Hypothesis
Step 4: TEST/EXPERIMENT
Step 5: Analyze Data
Step 6: Valid/Invalid Hypothesis
Step 7: Report Results

Cut and Dry.



Quote:
Astronomy isn't science under this regime.

asstronomy isn't "Science" because it doesn't conform to The Scientific Method...

Watch...

Post One Formal Scientific Hypothesis EVER constructed in the entire history of asstronomy...?

OR...

Show how you can have "Science" without Scientific Hypotheses...?

Ya see professor...

The sine qua non of "Science" is The Scientific Method.
The sine qua non of The Scientific Method is "Experiments" (Hypothesis Tests).
The sine qua non of Experiments is "Hypothesis".

"The Scientific Method is Hypothesis-Driven;"
http://www.pages.drexel.edu/~pyo22/s...ypothesis.html

"If it doesn't agree with EXPERIMENT, it's WRONG. In that simple statement is the KEY to SCIENCE".
Richard Feynman (Nobel Prize, Physics); The Essence Of Science In 60 Seconds.

EXPERIMENT is the only means of knowledge at our disposal. Everything else is POETRY, IMAGINATION.”
Max Planck (Nobel Prize, Physics), Quoted in; Atkins P.W.,: Molecular Quantum Mechanics; Oxford University Press, 1983

"The scientific method REQUIRES that an hypothesis be ruled out or modified if its predictions are clearly and repeatedly incompatible with EXPERIMENTAL TESTS. Further, no matter how elegant a theory is, its predictions must agree with EXPERIMENTAL RESULTS if we are to believe that it is a VALID description of nature. In physics, as in every experimental science, "EXPERIMENT is Supreme" and EXPERIMENTAL VERIFICATION of hypothetical predictions is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY."
http://teacher.nsrl.rochester.edu/ph...appendixe.html

Uh Ohh... ...

"Unlike the other sciences, astronomy is *ENTIRELY OBSERVATIONAL*. You CANNOT run EXPERIMENTS on things. You cannot manipulate the objects to see how they work."
http://www.astronomynotes.com/starprop/s2.htm

So, Crocheting is more "Scientific" than asstronomy.

Cut and Dry


Quote:
Measuring stuff isn't science.

Not Solely. no. SEE: The Scientific Method above. My 8 year old just measured a Bread Box...he's not a Scientist as a result.



Quote:
Observing and recording stuff isn't science

Not Solely, no. Stuff, eh?



Quote:
(so biology can go whistle, geology is just pretend, and geomorphology, oceanography, zoology, cell biology and so on are all a scam).

geology and geomorphology are most assuredly Pseudo-Sciences, it's Prima Facie.
Biology, zoology, and cell biology would have to be dealt with on a Case by Case basis.



Quote:
Infantile declarations of what is science, from a science-illiterate, are just standard Daniel stock-in-trade.

Generalized Sweeping Ipse Dixit Baseless 'bare' Assertion Fallacies (Like Here) are Infantile Declarations.
I forgot more Science yesterday than you'll ever know.



Quote:
Obviously genetics isn't science.

Genetics, Biochemistry/Chemistry, and Quantum Mechanics are The REAL "Sciences" in a General Sense. Meaning, each claim would still have to be evaluated on a Case-by-Case basis to see if it conformed to The Scientific Method, respectively.


Quote:
I hope you never get ill, Daniel. The clash between the real world and your fantasy when faced with an actual disease, and actual medical technology, would make your brain explode.

That's a Pretty Funny Straw Man Fallacy. The better, more apt question...

How in the World can you use your Computer/Smart Phone which is enabled by Quantum Mechanics, and at the same time Stage 5 Cling to with a Kung Fu Death Grip that which Quantum Mechanics has Bludgeoned then Jettisoned into the Incoherent Oblivion !! ...The Fairytale 👉 Philosophical Naturalism/Realism -- aka: atheism Religion?

A Real Life, Walking Talking Contradiction. Hypocrite Much?
You need any more Gasoline with your Matches?


regards
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Old 19th December 2017, 05:34 PM   #653
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
With respect to pressure you have no argument,



Quote:
you have cherry picked quotes, you have nonsense.

The truly disturbing part is that I had to provide citations for a Prima Facie Indubitable Fact that an Incoherent 3rd Grader knows as apodictic.



Quote:
Take a plastic glove. Tie it off at or near sea level. Now travel to the mountains, and watch the glove expand.

Wo Wo Wo there professor. Why do you need a Plastic Glove (CONTAINER)??



Quote:
Oh noes, the walls of your container, the glove, have expanded due to pressure differences between sea level and higher up the mountain.

Why do you need a Container?



Quote:
Prove a compass can't work on a spherical earth

Provide a Spherical Earth and I'll show you...?

btw: I said a compass wouldn't work South of a Spherical Equator.


regards
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Old 19th December 2017, 05:41 PM   #654
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
You are lying.

Yes and Pocahontas was a MI6 Mermaid and the mastermind behind the sinking of the Lusitania.



Quote:
The limitation in effective range for a surface target is identified.

Sure. More than 50 km, right here...

"The ESSM ANTI-SHIP MISSILE is powered by a high performance Mk 134 Mod 0 rocket motor dual-propellant propulsion system that develops high thrust. The motor can operate in temperatures ranging between -14°F to 133°F.
The propulsion system provides the missile with a speed of over Mach 4 and A RANGE OF MORE THAN 50km."
http://www.naval-technology.com/proj...-missile-essm/

pssst: all in need is "11 km" to Implode the entire "Spinning-Ball" Religion.


regards
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Old 19th December 2017, 05:59 PM   #655
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
General relativity reduces to Newtonian gravity in the appropriate limit.

http://www.math.uchicago.edu/~may/VI...ers/Tolish.pdf

Yes and I'm A Saudi Prince and a Mau Mau Fighter Pilot...

Newtonian Gravity is ... "A Force".
EinSHtienian Gravity is NOT ... "A Force".

"Einstein came up with the theory of general relativity (1915), the prototype of all modern gravitational theories. Its crucial ingredient, involving a colossal intellectual jump, is the concept of gravitation, NOT AS A FORCE, but as a manifestation of the curvature of space-time..."
https://ned.ipac.caltech.edu/level5/...ekenstein.html

Of course that leads into another 'problem', your "scientific community" (as if) doesn't follow Newtonian 'gravity'...

"...Einstein created his GENERAL THEORY OF RELATIVITY—which provides OUR MODERN UNDERSTANDING of gravity —with the express purpose of expunging nonlocality from physics. Isaac Newton's gravity acted at a distance, as if by magic, and general relativity snapped the wand in two by showing that the curvature of spacetime, and NOT AN INVISIBLE FORCE, gives rise to gravitational attraction."
Musser George: How Einstein Revealed the Universe's Strange "Nonlocality"; Scientific American, November 2015.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...e-nonlocality/

They are 'Mutually Exclusive'. They're not even in the same Geometry for cryin out-loud:
Newtonian 'gravity' is Euclidean 3 Space; whereas, EinSHtienian 'gravity' is Pseudo- Riemannian 4 Space.

Can you reconcile your TRAINWRECK here for us?

General Relativity reduces to a Fairytale. Do you need me to PUMMEL Einstein's Trainwrecks, specifically?? Say When!



Quote:
Technically it is a field. Like electro-magnetism is a field. However, unlike the electro-magnetic forces (resulting from those fields) the force of gravity is a fictitious or inertial force.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictitious_force

'wiki', eh? What's Next the National Enquirer?



Quote:
It is a Scientific Theory based on Scientific Laws.

Thanks!! ...

"Scientific Theories": "Explain" The How/WHY (mechanisms/process) and Identify The CAUSE ; e.g., Germ Theory. Scientific Theories are the Result of Validated/ Confirmed Scientific Hypotheses that have been rigorously TESTED via The Scientific Method.

"Scientific Laws"
: "describe" The What/IS (The How/Why and "CAUSE" is N/A). They are based SOLELY on OBSERVATIONS of Natural Laws; often expressed mathematically. e.g., 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.

That's why they're called The Laws of Thermodynamics and NOT the 'Theories' of Thermodynamics.

A Scientific Law NEVER becomes a Scientific Theory or Vice Versa because they each deal with different questions are in two different domains. 'duh'


*Caveat* : The "Scientific" in 'Scientific Laws' is a Misnomer because they never enter into The Scientific Method -- ( *"Science" -- 'Scientific'* ), as mentioned... they are merely 'descriptions' of Natural Laws.

*Scientific Law vs Scientific Theory:*

"Look above at the last definitions under Law and Theory. These definitions clearly differentiate the two words. Some scientists will tell you that the difference between them is that a LAW DESCRIBES WHAT NATURE DOES under certain conditions, and will predict what will happen as long as those conditions are met. A THEORY EXPLAINS HOW NATURE WORKS ..... From this view, laws and theories "do" different things and have different roles to play in science."
http://facultyweb.kennesaw.edu/rmats...s/theories.php


btw: You'd "FAIL" 5th Grade General Science.


regards
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Old 19th December 2017, 06:00 PM   #656
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I'll add to the highlighting.

The propulsion system provides the missile with a speed of over Mach 4 and A RANGE OF MORE THAN 50km."

Unless you're arguing that it doesn't have enough fuel, your highlighted part is irrelevant and has nothing to do with what is or isn't visible on sea or in the sky.
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Old 19th December 2017, 06:02 PM   #657
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Originally Posted by Daniel View Post

The truly disturbing part is that I had to provide citations for a Prima Facie Indubitable Fact that an Incoherent 3rd Grader knows as apodictic.

Amazing You continue to be.. wrong. about everything.



Quote:
Wo Wo Wo there professor. Why do you need a Plastic Glove (CONTAINER)??
It's an experiment. You should try it sometime.


Quote:
Why do you need a Container?
It's an experiment. Try it sometime.

I notice you didn't actually address the reasoning WHY a plastic glove filled with air, sealed, will expand if taken to higher latitudes.


Quote:
Provide a Spherical Earth and I'll show you...?
Sure. You're standing on a spherical* earth

Quote:
btw: I said a compass wouldn't work South of a Spherical Equator.
Australians disagree with you.

Have you managed to provide scientific evidence that the Earth is flat?


*Oblate Spheroid.
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Old 19th December 2017, 06:04 PM   #658
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Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
Yes and I'm A Saudi Prince and a Mau Mau Fighter Pilot...

Newtonian Gravity is ... "A Force".
EinSHtienian Gravity is NOT ... "A Force".

"Einstein came up with the theory of general relativity (1915), the prototype of all modern gravitational theories. Its crucial ingredient, involving a colossal intellectual jump, is the concept of gravitation, NOT AS A FORCE, but as a manifestation of the curvature of space-time..."
https://ned.ipac.caltech.edu/level5/...ekenstein.html

Of course that leads into another 'problem', your "scientific community" (as if) doesn't follow Newtonian 'gravity'...

"...Einstein created his GENERAL THEORY OF RELATIVITY—which provides OUR MODERN UNDERSTANDING of gravity —with the express purpose of expunging nonlocality from physics. Isaac Newton's gravity acted at a distance, as if by magic, and general relativity snapped the wand in two by showing that the curvature of spacetime, and NOT AN INVISIBLE FORCE, gives rise to gravitational attraction."
Musser George: How Einstein Revealed the Universe's Strange "Nonlocality"; Scientific American, November 2015.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...e-nonlocality/

They are 'Mutually Exclusive'. They're not even in the same Geometry for cryin out-loud:
Newtonian 'gravity' is Euclidean 3 Space; whereas, EinSHtienian 'gravity' is Pseudo- Riemannian 4 Space.

Can you reconcile your TRAINWRECK here for us?

General Relativity reduces to a Fairytale. Do you need me to PUMMEL Einstein's Trainwrecks, specifically?? Say When!






'wiki', eh? What's Next the National Enquirer?






Thanks!! ...

"Scientific Theories": "Explain" The How/WHY (mechanisms/process) and Identify The CAUSE ; e.g., Germ Theory. Scientific Theories are the Result of Validated/ Confirmed Scientific Hypotheses that have been rigorously TESTED via The Scientific Method.

"Scientific Laws"
: "describe" The What/IS (The How/Why and "CAUSE" is N/A). They are based SOLELY on OBSERVATIONS of Natural Laws; often expressed mathematically. e.g., 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.

That's why they're called The Laws of Thermodynamics and NOT the 'Theories' of Thermodynamics.

A Scientific Law NEVER becomes a Scientific Theory or Vice Versa because they each deal with different questions are in two different domains. 'duh'


*Caveat* : The "Scientific" in 'Scientific Laws' is a Misnomer because they never enter into The Scientific Method -- ( *"Science" -- 'Scientific'* ), as mentioned... they are merely 'descriptions' of Natural Laws.

*Scientific Law vs Scientific Theory:*

"Look above at the last definitions under Law and Theory. These definitions clearly differentiate the two words. Some scientists will tell you that the difference between them is that a LAW DESCRIBES WHAT NATURE DOES under certain conditions, and will predict what will happen as long as those conditions are met. A THEORY EXPLAINS HOW NATURE WORKS ..... From this view, laws and theories "do" different things and have different roles to play in science."
http://facultyweb.kennesaw.edu/rmats...s/theories.php


btw: You'd "FAIL" 5th Grade General Science.


regards
everything you said is wrong. All of it. You don't understand, well, anything it seems. You'd fail science at all grades, because you refuse to understand it. You refuse to learn. You refuse to answer any questions.

You are wrong.
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Old 19th December 2017, 06:29 PM   #659
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Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
Post One Formal Scientific Hypothesis EVER constructed in the entire history of asstronomy...?
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Old 19th December 2017, 06:48 PM   #660
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Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
Ahhh No. I take tenets of what the Fairytale 'Spinning-Ball' MUST BE ...THEN, I use those very same Tenets to DEBUNK the Premise ('Spinning-Ball').

It's similar to taking the tenets that make one a Carpenter, THEN using them to DEBUNK the Carpenter.

i.e., ... If you ask a Carpenter for a Framing Square and he hands you a Chalk Line THEN...he's not a Carpenter. Follow? (Obviously Rhetorical)


regards
Understanding that your insults mean nothing to me, how then would terrain masking by curvature of the earth work if the earth were flat?
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Old 19th December 2017, 07:31 PM   #661
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Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
Yes and Pocahontas was a MI6 Mermaid and the mastermind behind the sinking of the Lusitania.






Sure. More than 50 km, right here...

"The ESSM ANTI-SHIP MISSILE is powered by a high performance Mk 134 Mod 0 rocket motor dual-propellant propulsion system that develops high thrust. The motor can operate in temperatures ranging between -14°F to 133°F.
The propulsion system provides the missile with a speed of over Mach 4 and A RANGE OF MORE THAN 50km."
http://www.naval-technology.com/proj...-missile-essm/

pssst: all in need is "11 km" to Implode the entire "Spinning-Ball" Religion.


regards
I cannot believe you are even trying to still cling to a false interpretation.

Missile can fly 50 km.
Targeting limited by line of sight.


I can fire a bullet from a rifle a mile or two.
I can't hit a target easily by targeting with my eye or scope if the target is out of my sight in a ravine 200 yards away.

It is exactly the same principle.

Enough of the trolling on your part.
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Old 19th December 2017, 07:38 PM   #662
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Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
...The truly disturbing part is that I had to provide citations for a Prima Facie Indubitable Fact that an Incoherent 3rd Grader knows as apodictic...
No, no you didn't. You still haven't told us why you're still breathpng on your pathetic Flat Earth. Whatsa' matter. You need a container?!!
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Old 19th December 2017, 08:01 PM   #663
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Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
Ahhh No. I take tenets of what the Fairytale 'Spinning-Ball' MUST BE ...THEN, I use those very same Tenets to DEBUNK the Premise ('Spinning-Ball').

It's similar to taking the tenets that make one a Carpenter, THEN using them to DEBUNK the Carpenter.

i.e., ... If you ask a Carpenter for a Framing Square and he hands you a Chalk Line THEN...he's not a Carpenter. Follow? (Obviously Rhetorical)


regards
We ask you to define the properties of a flat earth and you stand there holding a pickle. Follow?
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Old 19th December 2017, 09:37 PM   #664
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Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
It's similar to the Phenomenon of watching a Plane fly over your head in Missouri but somebody in Chicago won't be able to see it.


If the earth was flat, or the jet was far enough away and high enough on the horizon (like a star), you would be able to see it.

Daniel, no one who is capable of working out how to post to a forum like this can be that dumb. What do you get out of this trolling? I mean you tend to put a lot of words in many of your emails, so it is taking up some amount of time for you to do this. What drives your behavior? I am actually more interested in that...
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Old 19th December 2017, 10:22 PM   #665
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Daniel,
The molecules that comprise the atmosphere have mass, just as do the molecules that make up your body. The same force which pulls you down to the ground when you step off a building pulls atmospheric molecules toward the Earth. The ocean of air responds to this force by compressing to higher density with decreasing altitude, settling to an equilibrium condition.

The vadt bulk of the air does not escape to space because both the temperature (which is a measure of the speed of motion of the molecules) and the density (which determines the mean free path between collisions) are insufficient at lower altitudes. But at the quite high altitudes of the upper thermosphere, where high temperature and very low density permit, atoms and molecules can and do escape to space.

You invoke the air hissing out of a tire when punctured, as proof of the escape of a gas when not contained. That's just an illustration of the equilibriation of a pressure differential; once the internal pressure equals that outside, the air exchange settles down to diffusion via Brownian motion.

But really, all this is moot. The fatal flaw of the flat Earth nonsense is best revealed by this simple fact. A flat disk must everywhere see the Sun (or Moon, or planet, or star) set or rise at the same time. (The fact of the Sun, Moon, planets and stars all rising and setting while they wheel about the sky at essentially fixed angular velocity is not an illusion, right?)

The notion of a 'floodlight' Sun that preferentially illuminates that part of the disk beneath it, in order to account for the differing times of day/night, CANNOT explain how it is that all places see the Sun shining at essentially full brilliance (accounting for the diminution near the horizon) while it's above the horizon. The 'floodlight' model MUST have the Sun fade in/out while still some angular distance above the horizon. The simplest geometry that can be understood by a fifth grader tells us this.

The experiment proposed earlier, whereby three or more people at widely separated places measure the Sun's altitude and azimuth at the same instant, would put the nail in the coffin of a disk world concept. If the Earth were really flat, we would find all lines of sight converging at the same place, some fairly small height above our platter planet.

But no matter how careful our experimenters are, there will be found a wide divergence in their sight lines, with no hint of a common convergence whatsoever. Those same results, though, when placed on a spherical model of Earth, would always be found to be essentially parallel, given that they're pointing to a spot some 93 million miles distant.

The difference between the flat Earth/near Sun and the round Earth/distant Sun is so utterly and markedly apparent that you and two other correspondents in other countries which all see the Sun above the horizon simultaneously could carry out this test so easily and provide your own direct proof. Do it for a star, as well, to show that for our first order purposes the Sun is practically as distant as the stars.

Your equipment need be no more complicated than a compass and a plastic protractor. While the compass may introduce an error of a couple or few degrees, this will be found to be rather smaller than the disparity between the two models.

Once you have your results, obtain a reasonably large map of your flat Earth. For each observer, place a wood skewer oriented to the appropriate azimuth and altirude for that Sun sighting. If your model is correct, all skewers will point to a common point of intersection. The more observers, the better, and from as widely scattered a region of the planet (having the Sun simultaneously seen) as possible.

Such an undertaking would qualify as real and true science. You could probably organize something through this group of folk in this Forum... I'm in Ottawa, Canada, and would be willing to give it a go.
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Old 19th December 2017, 10:34 PM   #666
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Just out of curiosity Daniel,

We know Venus, Titan and the gas giants are all spheres.
We know they have an atmosphere.
You claim that is impossible.

How does that work?
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Old 19th December 2017, 11:59 PM   #667
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Flat Earth 'theory' taking over the ... 'globe'?

Originally Posted by Daniel View Post


The truly disturbing part is that I had to provide citations for a Prima Facie Indubitable Fact that an Incoherent 3rd Grader knows as apodictic.

Wo Wo Wo there professor. Why do you need a Plastic Glove (CONTAINER)??


Why do you need a Container?

Provide a Spherical Earth and I'll show you...?

btw: I said a compass wouldn't work South of a Spherical Equator.

regards
You have no clue what pressure is, as you quote mine science to support the fantasy of flat earth. You ignore the science you quote mine. As predicted, you can't support your claims with the science you quote out of context to support the delusion of flat earth.

Thus you can't provide math and physics to explain how far the North star is, the moon, the sun, or anything.

You can't make a diagram of the sunset, or explain why celestial navigation works. It might be true you have no clue what celestial navigation is. You can't do diagram and geometry to support the lie of a flat earth.

I got it, the flat earth no gravity cherry picking quote mining fest of woo is based on projection.

Quote:
btw: You'd "FAIL" 5th Grade General Science.
Project much -


The Flat Earthers College Professor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHlLmYVCzKY
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Old 20th December 2017, 01:12 AM   #668
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Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
That's a Pretty Funny Straw Man Fallacy. The better, more apt question...

How in the World can you use your Computer/Smart Phone which is enabled by Quantum Mechanics, and at the same time Stage 5 Cling to with a Kung Fu Death Grip that which Quantum Mechanics has Bludgeoned then Jettisoned into the Incoherent Oblivion !! ...The Fairytale �� Philosophical Naturalism/Realism -- aka: atheism Religion?

A Real Life, Walking Talking Contradiction. Hypocrite Much?
I've forgotten more grammar in the last 10 seconds than you've ever known.

Oh, and if you try and bring religion into this discussion I'll report you for a Rule 11 breach.


Quote:
You need any more Gasoline with your Matches?......
We have petrol here.
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Old 20th December 2017, 01:49 AM   #669
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Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
Na, it isn't "Science" unless it conforms to The Scientific Method 'duh':

Step 1: Observe a Phenomenon
Sunlight reaches the bottom of a particular well at noon.

Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
Step 2: Lit Review
In ancient Greek times nobody had commented on the implications of this.

Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
Step 3: Hypothesis
The Earth is a sphere. The altitude of the sun may be used to measure the circumference of the Earth by comparing results at different latitudes.

Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
Step 4: TEST/EXPERIMENT
Measure the altitude of the sun at two different latitudes at local noon.

Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
Step 5: Analyze Data
Analysis of the data yields a circumference of ~25,000 miles.

Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
Step 6: Valid/Invalid Hypothesis
The hypothesis that the Earth is a sphere of circumference 25,000 miles is consistent with results. The hypothesis that the Earth is flat, is not. The former hypothesis is validated. The latter is invalidated.

Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
Step 7: Report Results
Done so effectively that even flat earthers are aware of them.

It's quite obvious that Daniel doesn't understand his own posts.

Dave
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Old 20th December 2017, 01:53 AM   #670
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Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
Yes and I'm A Saudi Prince and a Mau Mau Fighter Pilot...
These are no less credible than any other claim you make, actually.

Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
Newtonian Gravity is ... "A Force".
EinSHtienian Gravity is NOT ... "A Force".
Neither of these statements is correct; both are, in fact, theories which describe the actual phenomenon known as "Gravity". The suggestion that there are therefore two different types of gravity is utterly moronic; there are in fact two ways of describing gravity, one of which is outstandingly excellent and the other of which is merely very, very good.

And, of course, if you understood anything about GR, you'd realise that one of its fundamental postulates is that the effect of gravity is locally indistinguishable from acceleration due to a force.

Dave
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Old 20th December 2017, 01:55 AM   #671
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Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
I'd say there's a better chance of Liberace being resurrected sporting a purple tutu and jumping on a chartreuse hobbled unicorn and riding around the Sombrero Galaxy.
You'd be wrong then.

Quote:
That's not an Explanation, that's a Debunked Fairytale Declaration.
Nope. That's a predictive model that actually fits observed reality. You don't have to believe it or accept it. But it is the model that you're up against.

Quote:
So asking you to SUPPORT your Belly Laugher Debunked Fairytale Declaration 'gravity' via it's founding prognosticators: "Einsteinian or Newtonian" ...is Deflecting ??
Yes it is, seeing that my model is predicting observations. You don't have to know "what kind of gravity" or even what gravity is.

(BTW, "Einsteinian gravity" reduces to "Newtonian gravity" in this case. Not that it matters.)

Quote:
So back to the Begging The Question/Red Herring Fallacy, eh?? ...
Nope. Just asking you to support your claims. We have an objective, observable reality easily explained by my model.

You rant on and on and on about the scientific method. Now it's time for you to put up or shut up. Please state your model for how the atmospheric pressure varies by altitude. You don't have to define every little bit (at first) but it does have to be predictive.

This is how science works. In order for a new set of models and hypothesies to claim the throne they must have the same predictive powers as the existing models and hypothesies. In addition they need to explain things that the existing models and hypothesies are not able to explain.

No more deflections. Explain your model or sit the **** down.
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Old 20th December 2017, 02:49 AM   #672
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Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
... How in the World can you use your Computer/Smart Phone which is enabled by Quantum Mechanics, and at the same time Stage 5 Cling to with a Kung Fu Death Grip that which Quantum Mechanics has Bludgeoned then Jettisoned into the Incoherent Oblivion !! ...The Fairytale 👉 Philosophical Naturalism/Realism -- aka: atheism Religion?...
You have one skill - making up up clueless nonsense with ease.

It reminds me of this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJIvBeVKoQA
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Old 20th December 2017, 03:12 AM   #673
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Oh, the one-trick pony has returned? This stuff is just a rehash of same time last year.

2/10 - not even looking like he’s trying.
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Old 20th December 2017, 03:45 AM   #674
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Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
Yes and I'm A Saudi Prince and a Mau Mau Fighter Pilot...
OK, how nice for you.

Originally Posted by Daniel View Post

Newtonian Gravity is ... "A Force".
EinSHtienian Gravity is NOT ... "A Force".
Nope, technically not "A" force, since even in Newtonian Gravity the resulting force would be different for bodies of different mas. What Remains the same, even in Newtonian Gravity, for bodies of different mass in the same gravitational field is acceleration.

Originally Posted by Daniel View Post

"Einstein came up with the theory of general relativity (1915), the prototype of all modern gravitational theories. Its crucial ingredient, involving a colossal intellectual jump, is the concept of gravitation, NOT AS A FORCE, but as a manifestation of the curvature of space-time..."
https://ned.ipac.caltech.edu/level5/...ekenstein.html
Ever read the actual theory? I have, quote mining for particular internet phrases not from the theory won't help.

Originally Posted by Daniel View Post

Of course that leads into another 'problem', your "scientific community" (as if) doesn't follow Newtonian 'gravity'...

"...Einstein created his GENERAL THEORY OF RELATIVITY—which provides OUR MODERN UNDERSTANDING of gravity —with the express purpose of expunging nonlocality from physics. Isaac Newton's gravity acted at a distance, as if by magic, and general relativity snapped the wand in two by showing that the curvature of spacetime, and NOT AN INVISIBLE FORCE, gives rise to gravitational attraction."
Musser George: How Einstein Revealed the Universe's Strange "Nonlocality"; Scientific American, November 2015.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...e-nonlocality/

They are 'Mutually Exclusive'.
Nope, gave a paper, dispute it on its merits if you want.

Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
They're not even in the same Geometry for cryin out-loud:
Newtonian 'gravity' is Euclidean 3 Space; whereas, EinSHtienian 'gravity' is Pseudo- Riemannian 4 Space.
Yep, that's why the Newtonian limit is generally a flat space time (the Minkowski metric), a different Geometry. Glad you know where that limit be, yet sad you evidently don't even acknowledge the very limit you just asserted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newtonian_limit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minkowski_space


Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
Can you reconcile your TRAINWRECK here for us?
It is demonstrably your wreck (train or otherwise), reconcile it however you wish.

Originally Posted by Daniel View Post

General Relativity reduces to a Fairytale. Do you need me to PUMMEL Einstein's Trainwrecks, specifically?? Say When!

Again, dispute the papers assertions if you wish.



Originally Posted by Daniel View Post


'wiki', eh? What's Next the National Enquirer?
OK, Hyperphysics if you want.


http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/corf.html


http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...iv/relcon.html

Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
Thanks!! ...
Again, no problem.


Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
"Scientific Theories": "Explain" The How/WHY (mechanisms/process) and Identify The CAUSE ; e.g., Germ Theory. Scientific Theories are the Result of Validated/ Confirmed Scientific Hypotheses that have been rigorously TESTED via The Scientific Method.

"Scientific Laws"
: "describe" The What/IS (The How/Why and "CAUSE" is N/A). They are based SOLELY on OBSERVATIONS of Natural Laws; often expressed mathematically. e.g., 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.

That's why they're called The Laws of Thermodynamics and NOT the 'Theories' of Thermodynamics.

A Scientific Law NEVER becomes a Scientific Theory or Vice Versa because they each deal with different questions are in two different domains. 'duh'


*Caveat* : The "Scientific" in 'Scientific Laws' is a Misnomer because they never enter into The Scientific Method -- ( *"Science" -- 'Scientific'* ), as mentioned... they are merely 'descriptions' of Natural Laws.

*Scientific Law vs Scientific Theory:*

"Look above at the last definitions under Law and Theory. These definitions clearly differentiate the two words. Some scientists will tell you that the difference between them is that a LAW DESCRIBES WHAT NATURE DOES under certain conditions, and will predict what will happen as long as those conditions are met. A THEORY EXPLAINS HOW NATURE WORKS ..... From this view, laws and theories "do" different things and have different roles to play in science."
http://facultyweb.kennesaw.edu/rmats...s/theories.php
OK, none of that disputes a scientific theory being based on scientific laws. By all means, please, present your augments for why scientific theory can't be based on scientific laws


Originally Posted by Daniel View Post


btw: You'd "FAIL" 5th Grade General Science.
Nope, one of the few classes I never failed, even back then.


Originally Posted by Daniel View Post

regards
Whatever.
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Old 20th December 2017, 12:09 PM   #675
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Lurch, don't want to spoil your fun of doing the experiment... But

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V03eF0bcYno
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Old 20th December 2017, 12:33 PM   #676
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Originally Posted by alexi_drago View Post
Lurch, don't want to spoil your fun of doing the experiment... But

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V03eF0bcYno
It's beyond bizarre that in the 21st century, 3000 years since it was first done, someone has to actually do that work to counter the lunatic fringe.
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Old 20th December 2017, 12:41 PM   #677
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
It's beyond bizarre that in the 21st century, 3000 years since it was first done, someone has to actually do that work to counter the lunatic fringe.
Aha! See, you knew it was flat! You just admitted there's a fringe!

MikeG is part of the conspiracy!

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Old 20th December 2017, 12:44 PM   #678
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Damn. That's my cover blown.......
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Old 20th December 2017, 12:49 PM   #679
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Originally Posted by alexi_drago View Post
Lurch, don't want to spoil your fun of doing the experiment... But

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V03eF0bcYno
Excellent! It simplifies the protocol to finding the Sun's highest elevation at local noon on a particular day. No having to invoke spherical trigonometry when taking the observations all at the same instant over a range of longitude.

My work has been done for me. Thanks for linking to this. I hope Daniel and other flat Earthers will cogitate on such a simple yet profound experimental proof of the ball of rock we inhabit. As we know, they are hardly inclined to do this for themselves, contenting to navel gaze and parrot idiocy in willful ignorance or obstreporous denial.
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Old 20th December 2017, 01:25 PM   #680
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Originally Posted by Kid Eager View Post
Oh, the one-trick pony has returned? This stuff is just a rehash of same time last year.

2/10 - not even looking like he’s trying.
He's done beating the dead horse, now he's insulting everyone standing around telling him the horse is desd.
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