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28th September 2023, 03:42 AM | #1 |
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Tree down
The not-completely-unknown sycamore at a depression on Hadrian's Wall had stood for a few hundred years, until it was discovered today, fallen.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-66947040 Reports suggesting it was deliberately felled; the stump does look remarkably smooth. I wouldn't rule out stormy weather, not being an arborist personally, but if humans were involved: bastards. The location is rural, but not difficult to access, albeit involving about a twenty-minute walk from the nearest road. Picture is from my visit on Monday afternoon. |
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28th September 2023, 03:48 AM | #2 |
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Hmm,what is the appropriate method of human sacrifice for sycamore? Perhaps just nail the miscreants to the trunk?
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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28th September 2023, 04:17 AM | #3 |
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28th September 2023, 04:23 AM | #4 |
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Famous Sycamore Gap tree on Hadrian's Wall had been deliberately cut down
Quote:
It's one of the symbols of the wall and the national park. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-66947040 |
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28th September 2023, 04:31 AM | #5 |
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Is that the tree that was in Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves?
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28th September 2023, 04:37 AM | #6 |
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Duplicate thread:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=368398 |
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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28th September 2023, 04:37 AM | #7 |
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28th September 2023, 04:48 AM | #8 |
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Few things can irk me as much as vandalism does. I can spend tens of minutes on end making up punishments that will teach vandals and all their fellow vandals, and they tend to be brutal, sadistic and life-changing.
Like I think the proper punishment for a grafiti sprayer is to invade their home and spray everything in it and all they own - their clothes, their car, all windows, their computer inside and out, then spray the sprayer, and empty the can into their eyes That's for a painted commuter train. When vandals damage or destroy historic monuments or national treasures, my fantasies are a lot more drastic. I am currently thinking how the guy (it is a guy, of course; or group of guys) who cut this tree could be tormented and very slowly be rid of the will to live using the remains of this tree itself... |
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28th September 2023, 05:12 AM | #9 |
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Why would anyone do this? Just to be an *******?
Surely the value of lumber from one tree can't explain this. |
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28th September 2023, 05:27 AM | #10 |
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Probably some militant Picts protesting the Roman take over of their country. They probably want reparations.
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28th September 2023, 05:27 AM | #11 |
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It's not just some idiot with a cheap chainsaw from Lidl hacking away, it looks like a professional who knew what they were doing. Very clean cut, marked with paint and a wedge cut.
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28th September 2023, 05:33 AM | #12 |
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Went to visit that when I was up North a few weeks ago. Never dreamed it would be my last opportunity. Real shame.
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28th September 2023, 05:37 AM | #13 |
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Слава Україні! **** Putin! |
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28th September 2023, 05:43 AM | #14 |
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Looks like someone that knew what they were doing.
Remember it's a 20 minute walk in daylight and good conditions from a road. There was a storm last night |
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28th September 2023, 05:44 AM | #15 |
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He bade me take any rug in the house. |
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28th September 2023, 05:45 AM | #16 |
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28th September 2023, 05:50 AM | #17 |
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You mean someone that accidentally lugged a chainsaw across the moor to a world famous landmark in the middle of the night, in a storm?
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28th September 2023, 05:55 AM | #18 |
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28th September 2023, 05:58 AM | #19 |
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28th September 2023, 06:01 AM | #20 |
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It's national trust land with the only tree
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28th September 2023, 06:20 AM | #21 |
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I can totally see it as being a sick protest against climate change. "See what's going to happen if we don't get it together?!"
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28th September 2023, 06:41 AM | #22 |
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Periodic cutting greatly extends the life of most trees, so that coppiced stools may be many hundreds of years old.
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28th September 2023, 07:09 AM | #23 |
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Fines for felling trees without a licence (a tactic allegedly used by developers happy to pay the penalty as it was small beer compared to the land values) changed at the beginning of the year:
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...uncapped-fines That said, there's no way on earth any development would have been allowed at that site, save perhaps signage: there are already significant museum facilities at other points on the wall. |
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28th September 2023, 07:17 AM | #24 |
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For what it's worth, it looks like it was actually two trees, fused together early on.
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Maybe later.... |
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28th September 2023, 07:20 AM | #25 |
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28th September 2023, 07:25 AM | #26 |
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A man in Texas poisoned an ancient tree in the town square to death, out of some deranged impulse to impress or condemn the object of his affections (I forget now the exact nature of his "reasoning"). The woman he had in mind was by all accounts unaware of his interest in her, and of the arboricide plot he directed at her.
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28th September 2023, 07:56 AM | #27 |
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BBC News - Sycamore Gap: Boy, 16, arrested after Hadrian's Wall tree felled
Not a lot of detail as yet. |
28th September 2023, 07:58 AM | #28 |
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What exactly do you do in this kind of situation? Find another mature tree and transplant it? Plant another young tree? Leave the stump and a placard describing what happened and what used to be there?
A historical landmark like this isn't really replaceable, this is a huge bummer. |
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28th September 2023, 07:59 AM | #29 |
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20 |
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28th September 2023, 08:08 AM | #30 |
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Just to re-inforce what Andy said already: you don't get to Sycamore Gap by accident, especially if you are lugging a chain saw large enough to take out that tree. You get there even less by accident in the middle of the night in 40-50mph winds, like what we had here last night. And you can't mistake it for another tree, as there aren't any (IIRC, the nearest is a bunch of conifers as a wind break by a farm house a bit further along the Wall).
As deliberate as a deliberate thing done on purpose with clear intent. |
28th September 2023, 08:44 AM | #31 |
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From a rational perspective, the tree being cut down seems to minor...we've got wars going on. We've had terrible deaths due to covid. We've got so many horrible, crazy, things spiraling out of control that it seems silly to be bothered about a tree.
But those things are all so big, so hard to manage. We've always had war and disease and its hard to even imagine how we might end war and disease. Something small like this is so petty, so pointlessly cruel. We are saddened that terrible things to happen to people, but we take joy that objects of natural beauty will last and be there for the future. So...is this actually a topic that everyone on ISF is actually in agreement about? Nobody's going to start explaining why it was such a good thing that the tree was cut down? That seems almost miraculous! |
28th September 2023, 09:02 AM | #32 |
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Some things really are obvious, and there really is a smart bunch of people here.
It's like, who can argue about good news, except it isn't... |
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Maybe later.... |
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28th September 2023, 09:09 AM | #33 |
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I'd really like to know why. What's to gain? Notoriety?
Also, I know nothing about tries, save how to climb them, but is there no way to save it? Trees often seem remarkably resilient, pushing out new roots when apparently completely dead? (I suspect I'm clutching at straws here) |
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28th September 2023, 09:11 AM | #34 |
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What strikes me is yesterday's tragic UK news story was a 15 year old girl stabbed to death on the way to school by a teenage boy. Today's is a tree killed by a teenage boy.
In the abstract, it's no contest. If the thing George Washington was remembered for being unable to lie about was murdering a girl, he would have a different reputation today. But, horrible though her senseless killing is, we didn't know the girl. Millions of us, generations of us, knew and admired the romantic, picturesque tree, at least from pictures of it if not IRL. It seems crass to think it matters at all compared to the death of a young person, but honestly it feels like it does. At least I think we can rage against both senseless acts without feeling silly for caring about a plant. |
28th September 2023, 09:14 AM | #35 |
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28th September 2023, 09:50 AM | #36 |
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I'd be at least mildly astonished if a 16 year old accomplished this on their own.
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28th September 2023, 09:53 AM | #37 |
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28th September 2023, 10:51 AM | #38 |
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28th September 2023, 10:59 AM | #39 |
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28th September 2023, 11:35 AM | #40 |
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Sure, a wedge cut shows a bit more sophistication than cutting straight through with a chainsaw, but this is the kind of thing you can learn on the internet with a simple google search. I don't think it's inherently suspicious that a 16 year old could have figured that out on their own if they were motivated for whatever reason.
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