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Old 28th September 2023, 03:42 AM   #1
commandlinegamer
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Tree down

The not-completely-unknown sycamore at a depression on Hadrian's Wall had stood for a few hundred years, until it was discovered today, fallen.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-66947040

Reports suggesting it was deliberately felled; the stump does look remarkably smooth. I wouldn't rule out stormy weather, not being an arborist personally, but if humans were involved: bastards.

The location is rural, but not difficult to access, albeit involving about a twenty-minute walk from the nearest road.

Picture is from my visit on Monday afternoon.

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Old 28th September 2023, 03:48 AM   #2
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Hmm,what is the appropriate method of human sacrifice for sycamore? Perhaps just nail the miscreants to the trunk?
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Old 28th September 2023, 04:17 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Hmm,what is the appropriate method of human sacrifice for sycamore? Perhaps just nail the miscreants to the trunk?
Dropped from a great height with paddles strapped to their arms.
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Old 28th September 2023, 04:23 AM   #4
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Famous Sycamore Gap tree on Hadrian's Wall had been deliberately cut down

Quote:
A historic sycamore tree which stood in a dramatic dip in Hadrian's Wall appears to have been felled overnight, the national park has said.

Police are investigating after the tree in Sycamore Gap - known as Robin Hood's Tree - seemed to have been cut down.

Northumberland National Park Authority officials said it believed it had been "deliberately felled" and asked people to stay away from the site.
Absolutely shocking!

It's one of the symbols of the wall and the national park.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-66947040
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Old 28th September 2023, 04:31 AM   #5
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Is that the tree that was in Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves?
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Old 28th September 2023, 04:37 AM   #6
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Duplicate thread:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=368398
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
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Old 28th September 2023, 04:37 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
Is that the tree that was in Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves?
Yes
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Old 28th September 2023, 04:48 AM   #8
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Few things can irk me as much as vandalism does. I can spend tens of minutes on end making up punishments that will teach vandals and all their fellow vandals, and they tend to be brutal, sadistic and life-changing.
Like I think the proper punishment for a grafiti sprayer is to invade their home and spray everything in it and all they own - their clothes, their car, all windows, their computer inside and out, then spray the sprayer, and empty the can into their eyes
That's for a painted commuter train.

When vandals damage or destroy historic monuments or national treasures, my fantasies are a lot more drastic.
I am currently thinking how the guy (it is a guy, of course; or group of guys) who cut this tree could be tormented and very slowly be rid of the will to live using the remains of this tree itself...
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Old 28th September 2023, 05:12 AM   #9
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Why would anyone do this? Just to be an *******?

Surely the value of lumber from one tree can't explain this.
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Old 28th September 2023, 05:27 AM   #10
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Probably some militant Picts protesting the Roman take over of their country. They probably want reparations.
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Old 28th September 2023, 05:27 AM   #11
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It's not just some idiot with a cheap chainsaw from Lidl hacking away, it looks like a professional who knew what they were doing. Very clean cut, marked with paint and a wedge cut.

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Old 28th September 2023, 05:33 AM   #12
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Went to visit that when I was up North a few weeks ago. Never dreamed it would be my last opportunity. Real shame.
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Old 28th September 2023, 05:37 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Hmm,what is the appropriate method of human sacrifice for sycamore? Perhaps just nail the miscreants to the trunk?
Find these sick individuals and inject them with cholera so that they get sicker more.
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Old 28th September 2023, 05:43 AM   #14
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Looks like someone that knew what they were doing.
Remember it's a 20 minute walk in daylight and good conditions from a road.
There was a storm last night

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Old 28th September 2023, 05:44 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by TurkeysGhost View Post
Why would anyone do this? Just to be an *******?

Surely the value of lumber from one tree can't explain this.
Given the tree was left where it was, I don't think financial gain is evident.

The eastern side had a collection of pebbles (some painted) as memorials to loved ones; a special place for many people.
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Old 28th September 2023, 05:45 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Andy_Ross View Post
Looks like someone that knew what they were doing.
Remember it's a 20 minute walk in daylight and good conditions from a road.
There was a storm last night

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ictureid=13764
I wonder if this is going to turn out to be a simple, yet blunderous, screw up. Imagine being an arborist with a normal work order to cut down a tree, end up going to the wrong tree, and this is the news you wake up to the next day
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Old 28th September 2023, 05:50 AM   #17
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You mean someone that accidentally lugged a chainsaw across the moor to a world famous landmark in the middle of the night, in a storm?
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Old 28th September 2023, 05:55 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Andy_Ross View Post
You mean someone that accidentally lugged a chainsaw across the moor to a world famous landmark in the middle of the night, in a storm?
Man's gotta make a living.
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Old 28th September 2023, 05:58 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Andy_Ross View Post
You mean someone that accidentally lugged a chainsaw across the moor to a world famous landmark in the middle of the night, in a storm?
Maybe he was out of vacation days. Boss says chop, so you gotta chop.

ETA: jokes aside, I agree that middle of the night does imply maliciousness. I guess we have an aggrieved arborist out there somewhere, not sure how a tree managed to earn such ire.
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Old 28th September 2023, 06:01 AM   #20
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It's national trust land with the only tree
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Old 28th September 2023, 06:20 AM   #21
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I can totally see it as being a sick protest against climate change. "See what's going to happen if we don't get it together?!"
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Old 28th September 2023, 06:41 AM   #22
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Periodic cutting greatly extends the life of most trees, so that coppiced stools may be many hundreds of years old.
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Old 28th September 2023, 07:09 AM   #23
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Fines for felling trees without a licence (a tactic allegedly used by developers happy to pay the penalty as it was small beer compared to the land values) changed at the beginning of the year:

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...uncapped-fines

That said, there's no way on earth any development would have been allowed at that site, save perhaps signage: there are already significant museum facilities at other points on the wall.
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Old 28th September 2023, 07:17 AM   #24
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For what it's worth, it looks like it was actually two trees, fused together early on.
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Old 28th September 2023, 07:20 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
Yes
****. That was a beautiful tree.

It's hard to understand why anyone would do this.
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Old 28th September 2023, 07:25 AM   #26
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A man in Texas poisoned an ancient tree in the town square to death, out of some deranged impulse to impress or condemn the object of his affections (I forget now the exact nature of his "reasoning"). The woman he had in mind was by all accounts unaware of his interest in her, and of the arboricide plot he directed at her.
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Old 28th September 2023, 07:56 AM   #27
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BBC News - Sycamore Gap: Boy, 16, arrested after Hadrian's Wall tree felled

Not a lot of detail as yet.
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Old 28th September 2023, 07:58 AM   #28
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What exactly do you do in this kind of situation? Find another mature tree and transplant it? Plant another young tree? Leave the stump and a placard describing what happened and what used to be there?

A historical landmark like this isn't really replaceable, this is a huge bummer.
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Old 28th September 2023, 07:59 AM   #29
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...s-wall-england
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Old 28th September 2023, 08:08 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by TurkeysGhost View Post
I wonder if this is going to turn out to be a simple, yet blunderous, screw up. Imagine being an arborist with a normal work order to cut down a tree, end up going to the wrong tree, and this is the news you wake up to the next day
Just to re-inforce what Andy said already: you don't get to Sycamore Gap by accident, especially if you are lugging a chain saw large enough to take out that tree. You get there even less by accident in the middle of the night in 40-50mph winds, like what we had here last night. And you can't mistake it for another tree, as there aren't any (IIRC, the nearest is a bunch of conifers as a wind break by a farm house a bit further along the Wall).

As deliberate as a deliberate thing done on purpose with clear intent.
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Old 28th September 2023, 08:44 AM   #31
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From a rational perspective, the tree being cut down seems to minor...we've got wars going on. We've had terrible deaths due to covid. We've got so many horrible, crazy, things spiraling out of control that it seems silly to be bothered about a tree.

But those things are all so big, so hard to manage. We've always had war and disease and its hard to even imagine how we might end war and disease. Something small like this is so petty, so pointlessly cruel. We are saddened that terrible things to happen to people, but we take joy that objects of natural beauty will last and be there for the future.

So...is this actually a topic that everyone on ISF is actually in agreement about? Nobody's going to start explaining why it was such a good thing that the tree was cut down? That seems almost miraculous!
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Old 28th September 2023, 09:02 AM   #32
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Some things really are obvious, and there really is a smart bunch of people here.

It's like, who can argue about good news, except it isn't...
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Old 28th September 2023, 09:09 AM   #33
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I'd really like to know why. What's to gain? Notoriety?

Also, I know nothing about tries, save how to climb them, but is there no way to save it? Trees often seem remarkably resilient, pushing out new roots when apparently completely dead? (I suspect I'm clutching at straws here)
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Old 28th September 2023, 09:11 AM   #34
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What strikes me is yesterday's tragic UK news story was a 15 year old girl stabbed to death on the way to school by a teenage boy. Today's is a tree killed by a teenage boy.

In the abstract, it's no contest. If the thing George Washington was remembered for being unable to lie about was murdering a girl, he would have a different reputation today.

But, horrible though her senseless killing is, we didn't know the girl. Millions of us, generations of us, knew and admired the romantic, picturesque tree, at least from pictures of it if not IRL. It seems crass to think it matters at all compared to the death of a young person, but honestly it feels like it does. At least I think we can rage against both senseless acts without feeling silly for caring about a plant.
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Old 28th September 2023, 09:14 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by TurkeysGhost View Post
What exactly do you do in this kind of situation? Find another mature tree and transplant it? Plant another young tree? Leave the stump and a placard describing what happened and what used to be there?

A historical landmark like this isn't really replaceable, this is a huge bummer.
Stump, plaque, replant a sapling of the original tree, name it Antoninus Pius.

Salvage what else you can by selling overpriced trinkets made from the wood with all proceeds toward park conservation.
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Old 28th September 2023, 09:50 AM   #36
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I'd be at least mildly astonished if a 16 year old accomplished this on their own.
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Old 28th September 2023, 09:53 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by commandlinegamer View Post
I'd be at least mildly astonished if a 16 year old accomplished this on their own.
Cutting a tree down safely can be a time consuming task, but I wonder if this galaxy brain just said YOLO and did it quick and dirty. In a more just world the trunk would have crushed him flat.
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Old 28th September 2023, 10:51 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post

Quote:
A local pub, the Crown Inn at Humshaugh, posted: “Absolutely shocking news this morning, Sycamore Gap is no longer, some mindless idiot appears to [have] cut it down through the night.

It's over 10 miles away. There are entire towns that are nearer.
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Old 28th September 2023, 10:59 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by TurkeysGhost View Post
Cutting a tree down safely can be a time consuming task, but I wonder if this galaxy brain just said YOLO and did it quick and dirty. In a more just world the trunk would have crushed him flat.
As Andy Ross said it looks like whoever did it knew what they were doing. It's a wedge cut with the outline of the cut painted out. Plus to cut a tree at such a wide base needs a serious chainsaw to do.
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Old 28th September 2023, 11:35 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle View Post
As Andy Ross said it looks like whoever did it knew what they were doing. It's a wedge cut with the outline of the cut painted out. Plus to cut a tree at such a wide base needs a serious chainsaw to do.
Sure, a wedge cut shows a bit more sophistication than cutting straight through with a chainsaw, but this is the kind of thing you can learn on the internet with a simple google search. I don't think it's inherently suspicious that a 16 year old could have figured that out on their own if they were motivated for whatever reason.
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