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Old 22nd February 2018, 04:30 PM   #2081
Captain_Swoop
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Davis says the EU must recognise British standards and regulations after Brexit.

Yup that's going to happen.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a8219166.html

Quote:
Britain wants a Brexit trade deal that gives it free, unrestricted access to EU markets but where it was “not required to obey European rules”, David Davis has said.

Speaking to business leaders in Vienna the Brexit Secretary rejected the idea that the UK has to stay aligned with EU regulations to avoid trade barriers, and called for “mutual recognition” between the two regulatory regimes to avoid cutting British firms off from the continent.
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Old 22nd February 2018, 05:08 PM   #2082
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World standards are the way forward. Much better than parochial standards.
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Old 22nd February 2018, 05:38 PM   #2083
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Davis says the EU must recognise British standards and regulations after Brexit.

Yup that's going to happen.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a8219166.html
Why has not a single one of those business leaders asked him during the Q&A if he's completely bonkers?

Oh, and this is also a gem:
Quote:
Mr Davis also reiterated a UK warning that if Britain did not strike a trade deal, it would withhold the massive cash payment to Brussels agreed as phase one of the Brexit negotiations.
Maybe it would be wise to reintroduce the medieval custom of exchanging hostages to ensure a treaty is upheld.
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Old 22nd February 2018, 11:33 PM   #2084
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
World standards are the way forward. Much better than parochial standards.
Good luck with that

I mean in an ideal world of course there would be common standards but aligning 200+ countries and territories has proven to be very difficult indeed. With some new "greenfield" technologies the barriers have proven to be comparatively low but OTOH if the UK is baulking at kowtowing to the EU and adhering to EU standards I don't see the UK being happy kowtowing to China, India, Brazil, the US or whoever else has been influential in implementing global standards.

IMO "global standards" is code for lower standards (cf earlier comments by JRM about how the UK should be happy with lower, Indian, standards) - the veil is slipping and it's clear that the future envisaged by the Brexiteers is a "Sweatshop Britannia" competing with the developing world on price not a "Great Britain" competing with the developed world on quality and innovation.

Brexit Britain - proudly striving for the lowest common denominator
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Old 23rd February 2018, 01:24 AM   #2085
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Many EU standards and existing world standards were derived from old British standards. Electrical safety standards in Britain had to take a step backwards when we joined the EU, (called the common market back then). Like all safety standards, they have moved forwards again in recent years.

Last edited by ceptimus; 23rd February 2018 at 01:29 AM.
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Old 23rd February 2018, 01:41 AM   #2086
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
Many EU standards and existing world standards were derived from old British standards. Electrical safety standards in Britain had to take a step backwards when we joined the EU
But EU standards and regulations have always been touted as "health and safety gone mad" by those opposed to our membership. Now you're saying they are actually less stringent than those we already had? A lot of the people who voted leave because they believed such BS stories would be very surprised to hear that.
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Old 23rd February 2018, 02:13 AM   #2087
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Yes.
I seem to remember there was a whole hoo-ha (led by Dyson) over energy consumption standards for vacuum cleaners, for example.

Except, of course, now we can get effective cleaners which are cheaper to run.
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Old 23rd February 2018, 02:55 AM   #2088
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post


I'd be absolutely staggered if anything even resembling a unified approach comes out of the Chequers meeting.

p.s. I hope that 'faeries' aren't some kind of Irish fairy, coming over here with their foreign ways and funny food and taking our fairy jobs .
Let the new UKIP battle-cry be: "Faeries, yes! Leprechauns, no!"
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Old 23rd February 2018, 03:00 AM   #2089
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
Many EU standards and existing world standards were derived from old British standards. Electrical safety standards in Britain had to take a step backwards when we joined the EU, (called the common market back then). Like all safety standards, they have moved forwards again in recent years.
Can you identify some specific examples? It seems the UK is very much still using British Standards.
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Old 23rd February 2018, 04:32 AM   #2090
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Can you identify some specific examples? It seems the UK is very much still using British Standards.
Most (electrical) standards now derive from the IEC (world) standards. The EU, and or the UK may adopt these standards and give them their own numbers - for example a British Standard number, but they very rarely add anything (in terms of safety) to what is already laid down by the IEC standard. Over the last fifty years or so there has been a gradual move to the adoption of IEC standards so that if a product meets those standards then, from an electrical safety point of view, it can usually be exported worldwide.

I don't know as much about other standards that cover non-electrical items: the situation is probably different for those.
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Old 23rd February 2018, 05:03 AM   #2091
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Unless Hunt is going freelance with today's comments (which would be far from the first time for this cabinet) then it seems the Chequers meeting ruled out remaining in the customs union -

"The government will not consider entering into a customs union with the EU after Brexit, Jeremy Hunt has insisted, setting up a Commons fight over the cabinet’s plans for leaving the bloc that could inflict a damaging defeat on the prime minister."


I might mosey off and check the odds on May ceasing to be PM this year
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Old 23rd February 2018, 06:02 AM   #2092
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That isn't news. Given that remaining in the customs union prevents us from making our own trade deals with non-EU countries, plus the fact that Theresa May has said over and over again that we will leave the customs union, it can come as a surprise to no one that Hunt has, once again, ruled it out.

Remain enthusiasts seem to think that repeating the same thing over and over again might make it true. They must base their politics on Lewis Caroll's The Hunting of the Snark nonsense poem.
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Old 23rd February 2018, 06:35 AM   #2093
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So a collapse of the Good Friday Agreement it is then and a return to the 'Troubles'
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Old 23rd February 2018, 06:36 AM   #2094
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
Most (electrical) standards now derive from the IEC (world) standards. The EU, and or the UK may adopt these standards and give them their own numbers - for example a British Standard number, but they very rarely add anything (in terms of safety) to what is already laid down by the IEC standard. Over the last fifty years or so there has been a gradual move to the adoption of IEC standards so that if a product meets those standards then, from an electrical safety point of view, it can usually be exported worldwide.

I don't know as much about other standards that cover non-electrical items: the situation is probably different for those.
I was thining more about the second sentence:

Quote:
Electrical safety standards in Britain had to take a step backwards when we joined the EU, (called the common market back then).
You seem to be suggesting that Britain had high standards that had to be lowered.

Last edited by Information Analyst; 23rd February 2018 at 06:39 AM.
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Old 23rd February 2018, 06:41 AM   #2095
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
That isn't news. Given that remaining in the customs union prevents us from making our own trade deals with non-EU countries, plus the fact that Theresa May has said over and over again that we will leave the customs union, it can come as a surprise to no one that Hunt has, once again, ruled it out.
What's news is that they didn't change their minds. They face a Commons vote and a Labour leader who might well now be leaning towards staying in the customs union. All of which could spell an early end for May.
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Old 23rd February 2018, 01:42 PM   #2096
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In France right now and just about affording the cheese and wine. I'll miss this post Brexit
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Old 23rd February 2018, 01:59 PM   #2097
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
In France right now and just about affording the cheese and wine. I'll miss this post Brexit

There's no reason you should. You'll be able to just wander over the border into Ireland and go anywhere in the E.U. you want to.
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Old Yesterday, 11:19 AM   #2098
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
There's no reason you should. You'll be able to just wander over the border into Ireland and go anywhere in the E.U. you want to.
After the post Brexit collapse of the pound, it's the affordability that's the issue
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Old Yesterday, 11:35 AM   #2099
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This site allows you to track the Euro / Pound exchange rate. https://www.finder.com/uk/brexit-pound

You can alter the start and end dates of the graph to zoom in, but by default it goes from about May 2015 to the present. On that graph the "collapse" following the referendum can clearly be seen, but the downward trend in the first half of the graph (before referendum) is a little steeper than since.
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Old Yesterday, 11:36 AM   #2100
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We haven't left yet.
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Old Yesterday, 12:16 PM   #2101
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
We haven't left yet.
Yes, the pre and post referendum falls represent uncertainty and worry about Brexit. A no-deal Brexit IMO will consolidate those fears and result in a significant devaluation of the pound.
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Old Yesterday, 12:55 PM   #2102
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Got it. Anything bad that happened before the referendum was due to worries about Brexit. Anything bad that's happened since the referendum is due to Brexit. Anything good that's happened before or after the referendum is 'despite Brexit.'
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Old Yesterday, 11:10 PM   #2103
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
Got it. Anything bad that happened before the referendum was due to worries about Brexit. Anything bad that's happened since the referendum is due to Brexit. Anything good that's happened before or after the referendum is 'despite Brexit.'
Nope. If reason can be shown that the good thing is because of Brexit (for example a great new trade deal or a large company choosing to locate to the UK because of the opportunities offered then that's because, not despite). I'm not aware of too many of these yet.
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Old Yesterday, 11:33 PM   #2104
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I notice you didn't object to the 'All bad things are due to Brexit' part.
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Old Today, 04:25 AM   #2105
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Labour shifting position to support Customs Union.
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Old Today, 05:26 AM   #2106
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Yeah, a few days ago Emily Thornberry said that they would like to be in a similar customs union to the one we have now

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenter...s-union-brexit

More detail expected in a Corbyn speech tomorrow.

ETA:

More from Keir Starmer on Andrew Marr this morning:

https://twitter.com/MarrShow/status/967694575673384960
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Old Today, 05:48 AM   #2107
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Originally Posted by ohms View Post
Yeah, a few days ago Emily Thornberry said that they would like to be in a similar customs union to the one we have now

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenter...s-union-brexit

More detail expected in a Corbyn speech tomorrow.
And it seems to be official:

Labour wants new customs union treaty after Brexit - Starmer

The article includes a couple of quotes from the text of the speech Corbyn is due to deliver:

Quote:
In his speech on Monday, Mr Corbyn will say the EU "is not the root of all our problems and leaving it will not solve all our problems".
"The truth is more down to earth and it's in our hands. Brexit is what we make of it together, the priorities and choices we make in the negotiations."
In a breathtaking bit of cheek Liam Fox has responded:

Quote:
But Liam Fox said Labour's position did not make sense.
As opposed to the government position which makes perfect sense, if keeping Theresa May in Number 10 is your highest priority.
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Old Today, 06:30 AM   #2108
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My bet is that it spells the end for May, though for some reason my online bookie has limited the stake to €5 at 5-1 that she quits in the 2nd quarter of this year.
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Old Today, 07:58 AM   #2109
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
World standards are the way forward. Much better than parochial standards.
Just so long as those world standards come from the UK huh? You wouldn't want world standards coming from some large economic bloc from continental Europe would you?
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Old Today, 08:25 AM   #2110
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Originally Posted by Wildy View Post
Just so long as those world standards come from the UK huh? You wouldn't want world standards coming from some large economic bloc from continental Europe would you?
Doesn't matter to me where the standards come from as long as they have worldwide adoption. The SI system was mostly the invention of the French and it's the best worldwide system we have.
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Old Today, 09:37 AM   #2111
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
I notice you didn't object to the 'All bad things are due to Brexit' part.
It was so ridiculous, I didn't think it worthwhile.
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