Texas Governor and FOX News Blames Liberals for Power Outages - Page 7

CORed · 25th February 2021, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by shemp

If Texas were to up and secede right now, I don't think I'd have a problem with that.

I'm totally in favor of giving Texas back to Mexico, but I'm pretty sure that Mexico would refuse to take it.

Horatius · 26th February 2021, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

What are you talking about? I will take any mother effer's money if he is giving it away.

When you feel the need to paraphrase Clay Davis, you should really stop to consider if you're on the right side of the argument.

Horatius · 26th February 2021, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by Blue Mountain

What might come out of the lawsuit is pressure to change the law so that contracts like these simply cannot be made, or have caps on the maximum rate that can be charged. As a consumer, I might have signed such a contract if I believed the rate might go from a few cents per kWH to maybe a 50 cents, but not $9! That's like 100 times the base rate. Imagine gasoline jumping to $230.00 a gallon at the same time your gas tank is empty.

The problem with this is, you simply can't write a contract such as this that does that. The contract is, "We pass along the wholesale price to you!", and the wholesale price cannot be controlled by a contract. The wholesale price is what it is at any time because that's what the big players are willing to pay at that exact moment.

The only way to "cap" the price for the end consumer would be to cut their service off automatically if the price crosses a threshold, which just leaves you with a different problem - one person on a block loses their power while everyone else is okay, because the problems aren't in their neighborhood, but problems in other places drive up the wholesale price.

As you said, the only way to avoid such issues is to ban contracts like these in their entirety. Retail consumers simply should not be buying directly from a wholesale market.

BobTheCoward · 26th February 2021, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by Horatius

When you feel the need to paraphrase Clay Davis, you should really stop to consider if you're on the right side of the argument.

Which is why I don't argue people should do what I do.

Segnosaur · 26th February 2021, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by CORed

I'm totally in favor of giving Texas back to Mexico, but I'm pretty sure that Mexico would refuse to take it.

Depends...

If they give Texas back to Mexico, would Mexico be getting all the people of Texas, or just the land?

Heck, Mexico would be happy if they could get Texas back, but the U.S. had to keep Ted Cruz, Rick Perry and Greg Abbot.

Dr. Keith · 26th February 2021, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Depends...

If they give Texas back to Mexico, would Mexico be getting all the people of Texas, or just the land?

Heck, Mexico would be happy if they could get Texas back, but the U.S. had to keep Ted Cruz, Rick Perry and Greg Abbot.

In that deal would average Texans have the ability to apply for Mexican citizenship? Asking for a friend.

Dr. Keith · 26th February 2021, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Who are they and why didn't all their energy go to their regular customers?

How is it they had energy to free-wheel with? Wouldn't they have the same customers as they normally do except they didn't lose power?

It's not making sense to me.

Power generators don't provide power to customers, they provide it to the grid. Grid operators buy it for the grid and sell it to distributors. Retailers buy it from distributors and sell it to customers. Some areas have retail choice, where you literally go on a website that compares all the plans in your area to sign up fro electricity, and some have sole providers.

I live in an area with retail choice. I pay my bills to Reliant Energy. Reliant buys electricity from Oncor on my behalf. Oncor is the company I call when my power is out because they are the ones who actually provide my entire area power. ERCOT is the grid regulator who tells Oncor how much power they can have from the grid in situations like this. Power generators just own facilities that pump power into the grid as requested by ERCOT. The PUCT is supposed to be overseeing this whole mess to make sure ~~the companies are always profitable~~ the power supply is reliable.

Even in areas of the state where there is not a retail choice, such as rural areas with co-ops or small towns with municipal power systems, they are simply buying power off the grid for the benefit of their customers. The town does not have their own power generation capability, they just manage the distribution for their area.

Side note, my kids live in a small town that is served by two co-ops and a municipal system. It took us hours to find a map that accurately indicated where their address fell with respect to these boundaries. Not that it helped, none of the three had any useful information about their outages during the outage and the account information is in the name of the landlord, so there was no way to even report their outage, even as it rolled past 48 hours.

It is not a good system, but it is the best we are willing to pay for, apparently.

Bob001 · 26th February 2021, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Dr. Keith

......
It is not a good system, but it is the best we are willing to pay for, apparently.

Apparently El Paso manages its own system that's connected to the national grid, and they didn't crash. Are other Texans starting to say "Why can't we have what they have?"
https://www.texasmonthly.com/news/el...er-storm-2021/

Dr. Keith · 26th February 2021, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Bob001

Apparently El Paso manages its own system that's connected to the national grid, and they didn't crash. Are other Texans starting to say "Why can't we have what they have?"
https://www.texasmonthly.com/news/el...er-storm-2021/

It's not just El Paso, also most of the pan-handle and some of east Texas, IIRC. Still I think it is something like 90% of Texans who are stuck on the Texas grid and a surprising number of them feel like this is better than having to put up with federal regulations that may cost them a few dollars a month. I don't really understand it personally.

Norman Alexander · 26th February 2021, 12:29 PM

Freezing poorer people to death is the price rich Texans politicians are prepared pay to maintain their God-given freedom to holiday elsewhere.

bruto · 26th February 2021, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Freezing poorer people to death is the price rich Texans politicians are prepared pay to maintain their God-given freedom to holiday elsewhere.

The people have no heat? Let them fly coach!

Skeptic Ginger · 27th February 2021, 11:13 AM

Abbott is conveniently blaming the board at ERCOT. Like Ted Cruz, he had nothing to do with it.

catsmate · 28th February 2021, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by Bob001

Apparently El Paso manages its own system that's connected to the national grid, and they didn't crash. Are other Texans starting to say "Why can't we have what they have?"
https://www.texasmonthly.com/news/el...er-storm-2021/

"Because you were dumb enough to believe Republican lies"

Horatius · 28th February 2021, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by bruto

The people have no heat? Let them fly coach!

I think that's the part that actually bothers me the most.

A US Senator was flying coach? What, the cheap bastard couldn't even pony up for Economy Plus?

26th February 2021, 08:07 AM	#242
Horatius NWO Kitty Wrangler Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 29,114	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward What are you talking about? I will take any mother effer's money if he is giving it away. When you feel the need to paraphrase Clay Davis, you should really stop to consider if you're on the right side of the argument.
	__________________ Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd

26th February 2021, 08:15 AM	#243
Horatius NWO Kitty Wrangler Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 29,114	Originally Posted by Blue Mountain What might come out of the lawsuit is pressure to change the law so that contracts like these simply cannot be made, or have caps on the maximum rate that can be charged. As a consumer, I might have signed such a contract if I believed the rate might go from a few cents per kWH to maybe a 50 cents, but not $9! That's like 100 times the base rate. Imagine gasoline jumping to $230.00 a gallon at the same time your gas tank is empty. The problem with this is, you simply can't write a contract such as this that does that. The contract is, "We pass along the wholesale price to you!", and the wholesale price cannot be controlled by a contract. The wholesale price is what it is at any time because that's what the big players are willing to pay at that exact moment. The only way to "cap" the price for the end consumer would be to cut their service off automatically if the price crosses a threshold, which just leaves you with a different problem - one person on a block loses their power while everyone else is okay, because the problems aren't in their neighborhood, but problems in other places drive up the wholesale price. As you said, the only way to avoid such issues is to ban contracts like these in their entirety. Retail consumers simply should not be buying directly from a wholesale market.
	__________________ Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd

26th February 2021, 08:42 AM	#245
Segnosaur Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 17,320	Originally Posted by CORed I'm totally in favor of giving Texas back to Mexico, but I'm pretty sure that Mexico would refuse to take it. Depends... If they give Texas back to Mexico, would Mexico be getting all the people of Texas, or just the land? Heck, Mexico would be happy if they could get Texas back, but the U.S. had to keep Ted Cruz, Rick Perry and Greg Abbot.
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot

26th February 2021, 09:53 AM	#246
Dr. Keith Not a doctor. Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 22,884	Originally Posted by Segnosaur Depends... If they give Texas back to Mexico, would Mexico be getting all the people of Texas, or just the land? Heck, Mexico would be happy if they could get Texas back, but the U.S. had to keep Ted Cruz, Rick Perry and Greg Abbot. In that deal would average Texans have the ability to apply for Mexican citizenship? Asking for a friend.
	__________________ Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.

26th February 2021, 10:05 AM	#247
Dr. Keith Not a doctor. Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 22,884	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger Who are they and why didn't all their energy go to their regular customers? How is it they had energy to free-wheel with? Wouldn't they have the same customers as they normally do except they didn't lose power? It's not making sense to me. Power generators don't provide power to customers, they provide it to the grid. Grid operators buy it for the grid and sell it to distributors. Retailers buy it from distributors and sell it to customers. Some areas have retail choice, where you literally go on a website that compares all the plans in your area to sign up fro electricity, and some have sole providers. I live in an area with retail choice. I pay my bills to Reliant Energy. Reliant buys electricity from Oncor on my behalf. Oncor is the company I call when my power is out because they are the ones who actually provide my entire area power. ERCOT is the grid regulator who tells Oncor how much power they can have from the grid in situations like this. Power generators just own facilities that pump power into the grid as requested by ERCOT. The PUCT is supposed to be overseeing this whole mess to make sure ~~the companies are always profitable~~ the power supply is reliable. Even in areas of the state where there is not a retail choice, such as rural areas with co-ops or small towns with municipal power systems, they are simply buying power off the grid for the benefit of their customers. The town does not have their own power generation capability, they just manage the distribution for their area. Side note, my kids live in a small town that is served by two co-ops and a municipal system. It took us hours to find a map that accurately indicated where their address fell with respect to these boundaries. Not that it helped, none of the three had any useful information about their outages during the outage and the account information is in the name of the landlord, so there was no way to even report their outage, even as it rolled past 48 hours. It is not a good system, but it is the best we are willing to pay for, apparently.
	__________________ Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.

25th February 2021, 08:01 PM	#241
CORed Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Central City, Colorado, USA Posts: 10,135	Originally Posted by shemp If Texas were to up and secede right now, I don't think I'd have a problem with that. I'm totally in favor of giving Texas back to Mexico, but I'm pretty sure that Mexico would refuse to take it.

26th February 2021, 08:26 AM	#244
BobTheCoward Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 20,417	Originally Posted by Horatius When you feel the need to paraphrase Clay Davis, you should really stop to consider if you're on the right side of the argument. Which is why I don't argue people should do what I do.

26th February 2021, 11:05 AM	#248
Bob001 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: US of A Posts: 12,947	Originally Posted by Dr. Keith ...... It is not a good system, but it is the best we are willing to pay for, apparently. Apparently El Paso manages its own system that's connected to the national grid, and they didn't crash. Are other Texans starting to say "Why can't we have what they have?" https://www.texasmonthly.com/news/el...er-storm-2021/

26th February 2021, 11:56 AM	#249
Dr. Keith Not a doctor. Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 22,884	Originally Posted by Bob001 Apparently El Paso manages its own system that's connected to the national grid, and they didn't crash. Are other Texans starting to say "Why can't we have what they have?" https://www.texasmonthly.com/news/el...er-storm-2021/ It's not just El Paso, also most of the pan-handle and some of east Texas, IIRC. Still I think it is something like 90% of Texans who are stuck on the Texas grid and a surprising number of them feel like this is better than having to put up with federal regulations that may cost them a few dollars a month. I don't really understand it personally.
	__________________ Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.

26th February 2021, 12:29 PM	#250
Norman Alexander Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 9,124	Freezing poorer people to death is the price rich Texans politicians are prepared pay to maintain their God-given freedom to holiday elsewhere.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

26th February 2021, 02:40 PM	#251
bruto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy Posts: 28,194	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander Freezing poorer people to death is the price rich Texans politicians are prepared pay to maintain their God-given freedom to holiday elsewhere. The people have no heat? Let them fly coach!
	__________________ I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver) Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard) Last edited by bruto; 26th February 2021 at 02:42 PM.

27th February 2021, 11:13 AM	#252
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 87,749	Abbott is conveniently blaming the board at ERCOT. Like Ted Cruz, he had nothing to do with it.

28th February 2021, 08:53 AM	#253
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 24,253	Originally Posted by Bob001 Apparently El Paso manages its own system that's connected to the national grid, and they didn't crash. Are other Texans starting to say "Why can't we have what they have?" https://www.texasmonthly.com/news/el...er-storm-2021/ "Because you were dumb enough to believe Republican lies"
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

28th February 2021, 04:34 PM	#254
Horatius NWO Kitty Wrangler Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 29,114	Originally Posted by bruto The people have no heat? Let them fly coach! I think that's the part that actually bothers me the most. A US Senator was flying coach? What, the cheap bastard couldn't even pony up for Economy Plus?
	__________________ Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd