Meghan and Oprah - Page 16

Skeptic Ginger · 14th March 2021, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

The English countryside as it really was?

I’ve not seen it but I wonder if the murder body count is an accurate representation of the English countryside?

Apples and oranges.

Skeptic Ginger · 14th March 2021, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

It was ever so slightly stronger than that: https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...n-2250387.html

Now I live in “Midsomer” county - literally - quite a few scenes have used locations in my village and to add even more veracity to being the type of village he says Midsomer is meant to be, Slough* is on my doorstep, indeed like the Queen I share a Slough postcode.

Sadly he is right about the lack of diversity of ethnicity in such villages, seeing a non-“white” face is unusual, my next door neighbour - who is black, moved here about 10 years ago and he jokes he doubled the number of black people in the village.

Looking at the plain statistics of ethnicities in Britain doesn’t give a good picture of actual diversity in the country.

From 2011 (last census)

1. White European 87.1%
2 Black British or Afro-Caribbean 3.0%
3 Indian 2.3%
4 Multiracial 2.0%
5 Pakistani 1.9%
6 Bangladeshi 0.7%
7 Chinese 0.7%
Other Groups 2.3%

The non “white European” groups are not spread evenly throughout the country. They are pretty much concentrated in a few areas, so many areas of the UK are much more that “87.1% white european” many are indeed like my village in the high nineties. Whereas Slough (from my doorstep it is 9 miles to the centre of Slough) is one of the most “diverse” parts of the country, I think it is about 45% non-white British.

*Despite Slough being the largest town nearby people from around here edit it out of their awareness, when I first moved here I was surprised how it is never suggested as a location for anything. The self-editing is nothing but a mixture of snobbery and racism.

Fascinating. This (as in it isn't realistic) explains the casual interracial couples in the series.

arthwollipot · 14th March 2021, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

Oh, never mind. I’m wasting my breath....

Yeah I gave up on this too. Honestly, I'm almost at the point where I'd need evidence that the Royal Family is not racist.

cullennz · 14th March 2021, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Yeah I gave up on this too. Honestly, I'm almost at the point where I'd need evidence that the Royal Family is not racist.

Lol

Yeah ok.

I think you hit that point quite a few days ago now.

Darat · 15th March 2021, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Fascinating. This (as in it isn't realistic) explains the casual interracial couples in the series.

There has been a huge push for more visible diversity on our screens and in the media. But the strange thing is that in the UK unless you were producing a drama about one of the areas which have a high level of diversity e.g. say London or Slough than an “accurate” depiction of diversity would have very few non-white Europeans. London and its immediate surrounds (Greater London) distorts lots of things in the UK, including perception of the percentages of non-white Europeans.

Vixen · 15th March 2021, 12:47 AM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

Yep. I am owning up to my bias. Nothing wrong with that.

But frankly, yeah, tabloids gonna tabloid is pretty much what I assume. They are pretty awful to almost everyone. Do they have their favourites who somehow escape criticism? Sure. But look at almost every politician, every celebrity, every football manager who loses a few matches, look at almost all royalty (Charles? Camilla Parker Bowles? Edward? Philip? Andrew?). Do they usually get favourable or I favourable coverage? My recollection of reading things like the Daily Mail or the Sun is that they are relentlessly nasty to almost everyone. And not just tabloids. Look at some of the caricatures in the broadsheet cartoons. Or things like Spitting Image. They are relentlessly brutal.

American parody and satire on the other hand is weak af. Is any politician supposed to be upset by SNL? By Stephen Colbert or Trevor Noah?

Therefore, they shouldn't deny it then. Associated Newspapers Limited (ANL) have written to CBS News to complain about being misrepresented over headlines but one headline in particular struck me. It was the one about Meghan's blood tainting the royal family. ANL claim this was out of context, with the claim in quotation marks and attributed to an expelled UKIP member.

However, why put that quote in the headline at all, except to infer to readers that is the newspaper's stance. We have the DAILY EXPRESS who use this type of headline every day. "The EU are bullies!" [says MEP] and it is clear that is the message the newspaper wants readers to be swayed by. They put it in quotations as ascribed to A.N. Other because they know it would not be considered appropriate to do otherwise.

In other words, why would they have an opening headline screaming that Meghan's blood would taint the royal family, especially as the quote is by someone no-one had ever heard of (some bod in the UKIP hierachy who says a lot of openly racist things). The claim 'we were just quoting a racist' is really intellectually dishonest of ANL as they had no need to quote her at all as a banner headline.

Vixen · 15th March 2021, 01:07 AM

Originally Posted by EHocking

There’s a short documentary series that may interest some here.
BBC 2’s Mixed Brittania.
Available here - perhaps not available outside the Uk?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b015skx4

Harry and William have Indian ancestry, themselves.

Quote:

Britain's royal family has long been taunted for its German roots, but now a more exotic lineage can be revealed after evidence emerged indicating that Prince William is the direct descendant of an Indian woman.

The Duke of Cambridge's maternal lineage was revealed on Friday by a genetic ancestry testing company, BritainsDNA, which carried out tests on the DNA of Princess Diana's two matrilineal cousins and compared them to a global database of samples.

https://edition.cnn.com/2013/06/14/w...dia/index.html

Vixen · 15th March 2021, 02:03 AM

The Behaviour Panel has done an analysis of Harry & Meghan's body language in the Winfrey interview.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Manger Douse · 15th March 2021, 02:56 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

*Despite Slough being the largest town nearby people from around here edit it out of their awareness, when I first moved here I was surprised how it is never suggested as a location for anything. The self-editing is nothing but a mixture of snobbery and racism.

It's where The Office was set and one of the forms of Gozer the Traveller from Ghostbusters

Myriad · 15th March 2021, 02:59 AM

Originally Posted by Vixen

The Behaviour Panel has done an analysis of Harry & Meghan's body language in the Winfrey interview.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

One should never trust "body language expert" interpretations unless their findings are properly confirmed by aura readings, tarot cards, and haruspicy.

lionking · 15th March 2021, 03:03 AM

Originally Posted by Myriad

One should never trust "body language expert" interpretations unless their findings are properly confirmed by aura readings, tarot cards, and haruspicy.

Bravo.

whoanellie · 15th March 2021, 05:41 AM

Originally Posted by Vixen

The Behaviour Panel has done an analysis of Harry & Meghan's body language in the Winfrey interview.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

I'm familiar with them. As body language experts go, they are especially not credible.

Sent from my SM-G981V using Tapatalk

TragicMonkey · 15th March 2021, 06:34 AM

Originally Posted by Myriad

One should never trust "body language expert" interpretations unless their findings are properly confirmed by aura readings, tarot cards, and haruspicy.

...he said, crossing his arms behind his back, legs akimbo, leaning to the left, with one eye closed and the other staring straight up, his tongue flicking across his nose, and ears wiggling rapidly. To a properly-trained expert all these subtle clues that others might miss add up and reveal hidden truths.

Darat · 15th March 2021, 06:36 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

...he said, crossing his arms behind his back, legs akimbo, leaning to the left, with one eye closed and the other staring straight up, his tongue flicking across his nose, and ears wiggling rapidly. To a properly-trained expert all these subtle clues that others might miss add up and reveal hidden truths.

And so it was revealed that Myriad was a Russian agent!

Vixen · 15th March 2021, 06:55 AM

Originally Posted by whoanellie

I'm familiar with them. As body language experts go, they are especially not credible.

Sent from my SM-G981V using Tapatalk

I have a good idea as to why you don't like them.

They are extremely credible. Mark Dowden is a bit of camp entertainment and once streaked nude across a rugby field as an advertising stunt. The others include an army interrogator, former police interrogators, university professors, and are serious psychology professionals.

I like this guy here, who studies the psychology of languages. He has come up with this analysis:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

xjx388 · 15th March 2021, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Fascinating. This (as in it isn't realistic) explains the casual interracial couples in the series.

I think Call the Midwife (my wife's new favorite show, apparently) has handled the race thing about as well as could be handled.

If you are going to have a realistic show set in a certain period and place, I think it's really dumb to try and shoehorn in people of color where they really weren't present. Maybe they should just not do period pieces anymore. Or if they are, set them in an alternate universe where you can explore these issues without being anachronistic: see Bridgerton.

I think insisting on POC representation in anachronistic and unrealistic settings is a form of sugarcoating the past and denying the present; "See, we aren't a bad society!" Sorry, UKians in denial, but your royal family (and a big part of your society) is racist and always has been. MM is a prime example.

ponderingturtle · 15th March 2021, 07:13 AM

Well this thread has set new standards for how much we have to challenge anyone anytime they claim to have racist relatives/inlaws.

zooterkin · 15th March 2021, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by xjx388

I think Call the Midwife (my wife's new favorite show, apparently) has handled the race thing about as well as could be handled.

If you are going to have a realistic show set in a certain period and place, I think it's really dumb to try and shoehorn in people of color where they really weren't present. Maybe they should just not do period pieces anymore. Or if they are, set them in an alternate universe where you can explore these issues without being anachronistic: see Bridgerton.

I think insisting on POC representation in anachronistic and unrealistic settings is a form of sugarcoating the past and denying the present; "See, we aren't a bad society!" Sorry, UKians in denial, but your royal family (and a big part of your society) is racist and always has been. MM is a prime example.

Totally agreed, though there were people of colour in situations that you might think were not likely. Henry VIII had a black trumpeter, for example, and Dido Elizabeth Belle was born a slave in 1761, but brought up as an aristocrat in England.

ponderingturtle · 15th March 2021, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by zooterkin

Totally agreed, though there were people of colour in situations that you might think were not likely. Henry VIII had a black trumpeter, for example, and Dido Elizabeth Belle was born a slave in 1761, but brought up as an aristocrat in England.

There you go bringing facts into a perfectly good rant about why we have to white wash the past.

I am reminded of how people reacted to the inclusion of non white roman legionnaires in Doctor Who. When of course we know from their own writing that boatmen from Iraq were stationed in England during the roman period.

zooterkin · 15th March 2021, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

There you go bringing facts into a perfectly good rant about why we have to white wash the past.

I am reminded of how people reacted to the inclusion of non white roman legionnaires in Doctor Who. When of course we know from their own writing that boatmen from Iraq were stationed in England during the roman period.

There's DNA evidence for Romans in Britain who were originally from North Africa, and, back to Henry VIIIs time, the same for several of the crew of the Mary Rose.

ponderingturtle · 15th March 2021, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by zooterkin

There's DNA evidence for Romans in Britain who were originally from North Africa, and, back to Henry VIIIs time, the same for several of the crew of the Mary Rose.

The ones from Iraq we know of because we have their letters home asking for new underwear.

zooterkin · 15th March 2021, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

The ones from Iraq we know of because we have their letters home asking for new underwear.

Cool.

ponderingturtle · 15th March 2021, 11:38 AM

Then there are the Asian immigrants including Japanese samurai in 16th century mexico.

https://tlatollotl.tumblr.com/post/1...samurai-helped

Some even got to be honorary whites.

Vixen · 15th March 2021, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by zooterkin

There's DNA evidence for Romans in Britain who were originally from North Africa, and, back to Henry VIIIs time, the same for several of the crew of the Mary Rose.

The North Africans were likely Berbers and not particularly black at all.

Childlike Empress · 15th March 2021, 02:20 PM

While we are at Russian agents, the spokesperson of the Russian Foreign Ministry, the sharp-brained Maria Zakharova, was asked to comment on that affair at a press briefing some days ago. Her answer is quite interesting - I will quote it in full here as it obviously is meant to be spread and has no copyright, and it makes it available to people who might be afraid to click on a link to an official Russian government website.

Originally Posted by Maria Zakharova

We have received many requests to comment on the high profile interview of the Duke and Duchess of Sussex on a CBS television show. We are not really interested in such things and won’t comment on them. This is not our business.

However, we are very interested in and concerned about everything that is linked with British propaganda and the undermining of freedom of speech in Britain. We paid some attention to this interview in this context.

Edited by zooterkin:

<SNIP>
Edit for rule 4.

Matthew Best · 15th March 2021, 02:25 PM

She may be sharp-brained, but brevity is not her strong point.

Childlike Empress · 15th March 2021, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

She may be sharp-brained, but brevity is not her strong point.

tl;dr version:

Originally Posted by Maria Zakharova

[T]he “unwavering traditions of professionalism” of the British media, stemming from their close ties with the British political establishment, are nothing more than a mixture of hypocrisy and double standards wrapped in custom-made snobbery and imperial phantom pains.

Matthew Best · 15th March 2021, 04:44 PM

Well, it's painting with a broad brush, but I don't really think that anyone actually believes that the entirety of the British press has "unwavering traditions of professionalism", do they? British tabloids have a worldwide reputation, for sure, but not necessarily for professionalism.

Darat · 16th March 2021, 12:21 AM

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

Well, it's painting with a broad brush, but I don't really think that anyone actually believes that the entirety of the British press has "unwavering traditions of professionalism", do they? British tabloids have a worldwide reputation, for sure, but not necessarily for professionalism.

Considering Scoop was published over 80 years ago one wonders when the press was ever mean to have had “ unwavering traditions of professionalism”.

Vixen · 16th March 2021, 02:34 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Considering Scoop was published over 80 years ago one wonders when the press was ever mean to have had “ unwavering traditions of professionalism”.

What came first? The gutter press or the public's insatiable desire for salaciousness?

Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. ~ H. L. Mencken

cullennz · 16th March 2021, 03:45 AM

Originally Posted by Vixen

What came first? The gutter press or the public's insatiable desire for salaciousness?

Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. ~ H. L. Mencken

The latter I would imagine, given court gossip has been around and has cost heads for centuries, or probably a lot longer.

Darat · 16th March 2021, 03:47 AM

Originally Posted by Vixen

What came first? The gutter press or the public's insatiable desire for salaciousness?

Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. ~ H. L. Mencken

They aren’t separate things.

14th March 2021, 09:23 PM	#603
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 70,919	Originally Posted by lionking Oh, never mind. I’m wasting my breath.... Yeah I gave up on this too. Honestly, I'm almost at the point where I'd need evidence that the Royal Family is not racist.
	__________________ Semantic ambiguity is how vampires get you.

14th March 2021, 10:29 PM	#604
cullennz Embarrasingly illiterate Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: NZ Posts: 19,960	Originally Posted by arthwollipot Yeah I gave up on this too. Honestly, I'm almost at the point where I'd need evidence that the Royal Family is not racist. Lol Yeah ok. I think you hit that point quite a few days ago now.
	__________________ "I mean, you've got the first sort of mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a story-book, man," Biden said. 2007 https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna16911044

15th March 2021, 12:02 AM	#605
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 97,699	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger Fascinating. This (as in it isn't realistic) explains the casual interracial couples in the series. There has been a huge push for more visible diversity on our screens and in the media. But the strange thing is that in the UK unless you were producing a drama about one of the areas which have a high level of diversity e.g. say London or Slough than an “accurate” depiction of diversity would have very few non-white Europeans. London and its immediate surrounds (Greater London) distorts lots of things in the UK, including perception of the percentages of non-white Europeans.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

15th March 2021, 12:47 AM	#606
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 21,529	Originally Posted by angrysoba Yep. I am owning up to my bias. Nothing wrong with that. But frankly, yeah, tabloids gonna tabloid is pretty much what I assume. They are pretty awful to almost everyone. Do they have their favourites who somehow escape criticism? Sure. But look at almost every politician, every celebrity, every football manager who loses a few matches, look at almost all royalty (Charles? Camilla Parker Bowles? Edward? Philip? Andrew?). Do they usually get favourable or I favourable coverage? My recollection of reading things like the Daily Mail or the Sun is that they are relentlessly nasty to almost everyone. And not just tabloids. Look at some of the caricatures in the broadsheet cartoons. Or things like Spitting Image. They are relentlessly brutal. American parody and satire on the other hand is weak af. Is any politician supposed to be upset by SNL? By Stephen Colbert or Trevor Noah? Therefore, they shouldn't deny it then. Associated Newspapers Limited (ANL) have written to CBS News to complain about being misrepresented over headlines but one headline in particular struck me. It was the one about Meghan's blood tainting the royal family. ANL claim this was out of context, with the claim in quotation marks and attributed to an expelled UKIP member. However, why put that quote in the headline at all, except to infer to readers that is the newspaper's stance. We have the DAILY EXPRESS who use this type of headline every day. "The EU are bullies!" [says MEP] and it is clear that is the message the newspaper wants readers to be swayed by. They put it in quotations as ascribed to A.N. Other because they know it would not be considered appropriate to do otherwise. In other words, why would they have an opening headline screaming that Meghan's blood would taint the royal family, especially as the quote is by someone no-one had ever heard of (some bod in the UKIP hierachy who says a lot of openly racist things). The claim 'we were just quoting a racist' is really intellectually dishonest of ANL as they had no need to quote her at all as a banner headline.
	__________________ Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder, vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på! Last edited by Vixen; 15th March 2021 at 12:48 AM.

15th March 2021, 01:07 AM	#607
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 21,529	Originally Posted by EHocking There’s a short documentary series that may interest some here. BBC 2’s Mixed Brittania. Available here - perhaps not available outside the Uk? https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b015skx4 Harry and William have Indian ancestry, themselves. Quote: Britain's royal family has long been taunted for its German roots, but now a more exotic lineage can be revealed after evidence emerged indicating that Prince William is the direct descendant of an Indian woman. The Duke of Cambridge's maternal lineage was revealed on Friday by a genetic ancestry testing company, BritainsDNA, which carried out tests on the DNA of Princess Diana's two matrilineal cousins and compared them to a global database of samples. https://edition.cnn.com/2013/06/14/w...dia/index.html
	__________________ Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder, vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på!

14th March 2021, 11:52 AM	#601
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 87,749	Originally Posted by angrysoba The English countryside as it really was? I’ve not seen it but I wonder if the murder body count is an accurate representation of the English countryside? Apples and oranges.

14th March 2021, 11:56 AM	#602
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 87,749	Originally Posted by Darat It was ever so slightly stronger than that: https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...n-2250387.html Now I live in “Midsomer” county - literally - quite a few scenes have used locations in my village and to add even more veracity to being the type of village he says Midsomer is meant to be, Slough* is on my doorstep, indeed like the Queen I share a Slough postcode. Sadly he is right about the lack of diversity of ethnicity in such villages, seeing a non-“white” face is unusual, my next door neighbour - who is black, moved here about 10 years ago and he jokes he doubled the number of black people in the village. Looking at the plain statistics of ethnicities in Britain doesn’t give a good picture of actual diversity in the country. From 2011 (last census) 1. White European 87.1% 2 Black British or Afro-Caribbean 3.0% 3 Indian 2.3% 4 Multiracial 2.0% 5 Pakistani 1.9% 6 Bangladeshi 0.7% 7 Chinese 0.7% Other Groups 2.3% The non “white European” groups are not spread evenly throughout the country. They are pretty much concentrated in a few areas, so many areas of the UK are much more that “87.1% white european” many are indeed like my village in the high nineties. Whereas Slough (from my doorstep it is 9 miles to the centre of Slough) is one of the most “diverse” parts of the country, I think it is about 45% non-white British. *Despite Slough being the largest town nearby people from around here edit it out of their awareness, when I first moved here I was surprised how it is never suggested as a location for anything. The self-editing is nothing but a mixture of snobbery and racism. Fascinating. This (as in it isn't realistic) explains the casual interracial couples in the series.

15th March 2021, 02:56 AM	#609
Manger Douse Muse Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 628	Originally Posted by Darat *Despite Slough being the largest town nearby people from around here edit it out of their awareness, when I first moved here I was surprised how it is never suggested as a location for anything. The self-editing is nothing but a mixture of snobbery and racism. It's where The Office was set and one of the forms of Gozer the Traveller from Ghostbusters
Manger Douse Muse Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 628

15th March 2021, 03:03 AM	#611
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 47,147	Originally Posted by Myriad One should never trust "body language expert" interpretations unless their findings are properly confirmed by aura readings, tarot cards, and haruspicy. Bravo.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

15th March 2021, 06:34 AM	#613
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 59,717	Originally Posted by Myriad One should never trust "body language expert" interpretations unless their findings are properly confirmed by aura readings, tarot cards, and haruspicy. ...he said, crossing his arms behind his back, legs akimbo, leaning to the left, with one eye closed and the other staring straight up, his tongue flicking across his nose, and ears wiggling rapidly. To a properly-trained expert all these subtle clues that others might miss add up and reveal hidden truths.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

15th March 2021, 06:36 AM	#614
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 97,699	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey ...he said, crossing his arms behind his back, legs akimbo, leaning to the left, with one eye closed and the other staring straight up, his tongue flicking across his nose, and ears wiggling rapidly. To a properly-trained expert all these subtle clues that others might miss add up and reveal hidden truths. And so it was revealed that Myriad was a Russian agent!
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

15th March 2021, 07:08 AM	#616
xjx388 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 9,302	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger Fascinating. This (as in it isn't realistic) explains the casual interracial couples in the series. I think Call the Midwife (my wife's new favorite show, apparently) has handled the race thing about as well as could be handled. If you are going to have a realistic show set in a certain period and place, I think it's really dumb to try and shoehorn in people of color where they really weren't present. Maybe they should just not do period pieces anymore. Or if they are, set them in an alternate universe where you can explore these issues without being anachronistic: see Bridgerton. I think insisting on POC representation in anachronistic and unrealistic settings is a form of sugarcoating the past and denying the present; "See, we aren't a bad society!" Sorry, UKians in denial, but your royal family (and a big part of your society) is racist and always has been. MM is a prime example.
xjx388 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 9,302	__________________ Hello.

15th March 2021, 07:13 AM	#617
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 50,706	Well this thread has set new standards for how much we have to challenge anyone anytime they claim to have racist relatives/inlaws.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

15th March 2021, 08:26 AM	#618
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Administrator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 48,814	Originally Posted by xjx388 I think Call the Midwife (my wife's new favorite show, apparently) has handled the race thing about as well as could be handled. If you are going to have a realistic show set in a certain period and place, I think it's really dumb to try and shoehorn in people of color where they really weren't present. Maybe they should just not do period pieces anymore. Or if they are, set them in an alternate universe where you can explore these issues without being anachronistic: see Bridgerton. I think insisting on POC representation in anachronistic and unrealistic settings is a form of sugarcoating the past and denying the present; "See, we aren't a bad society!" Sorry, UKians in denial, but your royal family (and a big part of your society) is racist and always has been. MM is a prime example. Totally agreed, though there were people of colour in situations that you might think were not likely. Henry VIII had a black trumpeter, for example, and Dido Elizabeth Belle was born a slave in 1761, but brought up as an aristocrat in England.
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20

15th March 2021, 08:28 AM	#619
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 50,706	Originally Posted by zooterkin Totally agreed, though there were people of colour in situations that you might think were not likely. Henry VIII had a black trumpeter, for example, and Dido Elizabeth Belle was born a slave in 1761, but brought up as an aristocrat in England. There you go bringing facts into a perfectly good rant about why we have to white wash the past. I am reminded of how people reacted to the inclusion of non white roman legionnaires in Doctor Who. When of course we know from their own writing that boatmen from Iraq were stationed in England during the roman period.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin Last edited by ponderingturtle; 15th March 2021 at 08:31 AM.

15th March 2021, 10:28 AM	#620
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Administrator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 48,814	Originally Posted by ponderingturtle There you go bringing facts into a perfectly good rant about why we have to white wash the past. I am reminded of how people reacted to the inclusion of non white roman legionnaires in Doctor Who. When of course we know from their own writing that boatmen from Iraq were stationed in England during the roman period. There's DNA evidence for Romans in Britain who were originally from North Africa, and, back to Henry VIIIs time, the same for several of the crew of the Mary Rose.
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20

15th March 2021, 11:33 AM	#621
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 50,706	Originally Posted by zooterkin There's DNA evidence for Romans in Britain who were originally from North Africa, and, back to Henry VIIIs time, the same for several of the crew of the Mary Rose. The ones from Iraq we know of because we have their letters home asking for new underwear.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

15th March 2021, 11:35 AM	#622
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Administrator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 48,814	Originally Posted by ponderingturtle The ones from Iraq we know of because we have their letters home asking for new underwear. Cool.
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20

15th March 2021, 11:38 AM	#623
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 50,706	Then there are the Asian immigrants including Japanese samurai in 16th century mexico. https://tlatollotl.tumblr.com/post/1...samurai-helped Some even got to be honorary whites.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

15th March 2021, 11:48 AM	#624
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 21,529	Originally Posted by zooterkin There's DNA evidence for Romans in Britain who were originally from North Africa, and, back to Henry VIIIs time, the same for several of the crew of the Mary Rose. The North Africans were likely Berbers and not particularly black at all.
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15th March 2021, 02:25 PM	#626
Matthew Best Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Leicester Square, London Posts: 8,433	She may be sharp-brained, but brevity is not her strong point.

15th March 2021, 04:22 PM	#627
Childlike Empress Ewige Blumenkraft Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ivory Tower Posts: 19,082	Originally Posted by Matthew Best She may be sharp-brained, but brevity is not her strong point. tl;dr version: Originally Posted by Maria Zakharova [T]he “unwavering traditions of professionalism” of the British media, stemming from their close ties with the British political establishment, are nothing more than a mixture of hypocrisy and double standards wrapped in custom-made snobbery and imperial phantom pains.
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15th March 2021, 04:44 PM	#628
Matthew Best Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Leicester Square, London Posts: 8,433	Well, it's painting with a broad brush, but I don't really think that anyone actually believes that the entirety of the British press has "unwavering traditions of professionalism", do they? British tabloids have a worldwide reputation, for sure, but not necessarily for professionalism.

16th March 2021, 12:21 AM	#629
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 97,699	Originally Posted by Matthew Best Well, it's painting with a broad brush, but I don't really think that anyone actually believes that the entirety of the British press has "unwavering traditions of professionalism", do they? British tabloids have a worldwide reputation, for sure, but not necessarily for professionalism. Considering Scoop was published over 80 years ago one wonders when the press was ever mean to have had “ unwavering traditions of professionalism”.
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16th March 2021, 02:34 AM	#630
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 21,529	Originally Posted by Darat Considering Scoop was published over 80 years ago one wonders when the press was ever mean to have had “ unwavering traditions of professionalism”. What came first? The gutter press or the public's insatiable desire for salaciousness? Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. ~ H. L. Mencken
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16th March 2021, 03:45 AM	#631
cullennz Embarrasingly illiterate Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: NZ Posts: 19,960	Originally Posted by Vixen What came first? The gutter press or the public's insatiable desire for salaciousness? Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. ~ H. L. Mencken The latter I would imagine, given court gossip has been around and has cost heads for centuries, or probably a lot longer.
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16th March 2021, 03:47 AM	#632
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 97,699	Originally Posted by Vixen What came first? The gutter press or the public's insatiable desire for salaciousness? Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. ~ H. L. Mencken They aren’t separate things.
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