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Tags 2020 elections , political predictions , political speculation , prediction thread , vice presidential choices

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Old 19th March 2020, 06:23 PM   #121
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
hmm...who thinks Biden may consider Tulsi Gabbard as VP?

I thought it was incredible that Gabbard endorsed Biden. But apparently she's friends with one of Biden's sons and says Biden has a good heart.
NO way. She isn't popular enough to gain him anything.
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Old 19th March 2020, 06:29 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
It's Kamala Harris for Biden, I'm thinking Warren if Sanders gets it.

Stacey Abrams is too unlikeable, when she wouldn't admit she lost the election, she really turned off a lot of national potential.
Only among Republicans.

I think Abrams would be a good choice for a Biden VP.
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Old 19th March 2020, 06:41 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by fishbob View Post
Only among Republicans.

I think Abrams would be a good choice for a Biden VP.
The fact she almost beat a Republican in Georgia says a lot for her. She received more votes than any other Democrat running for governor in Georgia history. Now, if she would just learn to spell her first name correctly...
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Old 19th March 2020, 06:57 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
The fact she almost beat a Republican in Georgia says a lot for her. She received more votes than any other Democrat running for governor in Georgia history. Now, if she would just learn to spell her first name correctly...
World has changed dramatically.
She is appealing, but her Statehouse experience does not give her the gravitas needed to be seen leading the Country right now.
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Old 19th March 2020, 07:05 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
World has changed dramatically.
She is appealing, but her Statehouse experience does not give her the gravitas needed to be seen leading the Country right now.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
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Old 20th March 2020, 08:26 AM   #126
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I have been hoping Biden considers Amy. Anyone else think she and Biden would be a good team?
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Old 20th March 2020, 02:17 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
I have been hoping Biden considers Amy. Anyone else think she and Biden would be a good team?

I'm not sure that Pres and VP operating as a team has a great deal of historical traction anyway. Unless Ribbon Cutter and Substitute Campaigner count. First Ladies seem to have more claim ... and visibility ... for that concept.

Anyone remember this plaintive refrain;

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Old 20th March 2020, 02:23 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by fishbob View Post
Only among Republicans.
Which makes her a bad choice for a Biden VP, going into the general election.

Quote:
I think Abrams would be a good choice for a Biden VP.
You lost me.
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Old 20th March 2020, 02:34 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
I have been hoping Biden considers Amy. Anyone else think she and Biden would be a good team?
In the American system, the VP functions as a spare president, not a contributing member of the President's team.

Unless you're envisioning some kind of Bush-Cheney thing, where Biden isn't competent to do the job, and Amy pulls all the strings from behind the scenes, and all of Biden's cabinet goes along with it because they all feel more beholden to Amy than to Biden anyway.

Hrm.

Maybe Obama-Biden is the better comparison. Maybe Amy can do for Biden's team what Biden did for Obama's team... Remind me: What did Biden do for Obama's team?
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Old 20th March 2020, 02:50 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
In the American system, the VP functions as a spare president, not a contributing member of the President's team.

Unless you're envisioning some kind of Bush-Cheney thing, where Biden isn't competent to do the job, and Amy pulls all the strings from behind the scenes, and all of Biden's cabinet goes along with it because they all feel more beholden to Amy than to Biden anyway.

Hrm.

Maybe Obama-Biden is the better comparison. Maybe Amy can do for Biden's team what Biden did for Obama's team... Remind me: What did Biden do for Obama's team?
The VP's input depends on the president. There are certain things by law only the VP can do but how much the president takes his/her ideas into consideration is up to him/her. The president can also appoint the VP to head certain tasks.
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Old 20th March 2020, 02:58 PM   #131
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Tulsi Gabbard might be a smarter choise than anything else I've heare Biden considering - Amy Klobuchar is the likeliest choise though, I think.

Tulsi Gabbard might actually win over SOME support from the progressives, whereas Amy Klobuchar would not, even if progressives are pissed off that she endorsed Biden with Bernie still in the race. If she got the VP slot soon, at lest that would explain it.

Though there's a petition out there to have Biden pick Nina Turner as her VP. Unlikely? For sure!

But if he wants to win enough of the Bernie voters over to win the presidency, he'll have to do something as dramatic as that. Otherwise, I think that half the progressives that held their noses and voted for Hillary to avoid Trump, won't do it for Biden, this time, and he'll lose worse than Hillary did.
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Old 20th March 2020, 03:19 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
The VP's input depends on the president. There are certain things by law only the VP can do but how much the president takes his/her ideas into consideration is up to him/her. The president can also appoint the VP to head certain tasks.
I think the only things that only the VP can do by law are
1) cast the deciding vote for a tie in the Senate; and
2) succeed the President if he dies, resigns, or is removed.

The Pres CAN, of course, task him/her with lots of stuff, or just let him take it over. US foreign policy was controlled by Dick Cheney for about six years.

You know who I'd have liked to see as the Dem VP candidate? Beto O'Rourke. With Liz Warren as the Presidential candidate.
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Old 20th March 2020, 03:32 PM   #133
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Lately I've been hearing rumors that it might be Joe Biden.
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Old 20th March 2020, 04:53 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
I'm not sure that Pres and VP operating as a team has a great deal of historical traction anyway. Unless Ribbon Cutter and Substitute Campaigner count. First Ladies seem to have more claim ... and visibility ... for that concept.

Anyone remember this plaintive refrain;

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Pence is "in charge" of the response to the greatest crisis we have faced as a Nation since the 911 crisis (the response to which, Dick Cheney was "in charge of").

Recent history begs to differ.
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Old 21st March 2020, 09:50 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Pence is "in charge" of the response to the greatest crisis we have faced as a Nation since the 911 crisis (the response to which, Dick Cheney was "in charge of").

Recent history begs to differ.
The 9/11 crisis was handled pretty well, I thought.

Also, "greatest crisis since 9/11" isn't actually such a high bar. If 9/11 was worse than this, then we're in pretty good shape. Hell, this probably isn't even our greatest crisis since that Ebola scare a few years back.
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Old 21st March 2020, 03:43 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The 9/11 crisis was handled pretty well, I thought.

Yeah, the invasion of Iraq was well planned and went spectacularly!

Quote:
Also, "greatest crisis since 9/11" isn't actually such a high bar. If 9/11 was worse than this, then we're in pretty good shape. Hell, this probably isn't even our greatest crisis since that Ebola scare a few years back.

As usual, you are fooling yourself.
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Old 21st March 2020, 05:56 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The 9/11 crisis was handled pretty well, I thought.

Also, "greatest crisis since 9/11" isn't actually such a high bar. If 9/11 was worse than this, then we're in pretty good shape. Hell, this probably isn't even our greatest crisis since that Ebola scare a few years back.
The point addressed was that VPs have played a larger role than their Constitutional powers suggest in recent history.

The nature and scope of the crises mentioned is probably a topic for one of the many other threads.
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Old 22nd March 2020, 10:39 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
The point addressed was that VPs have played a larger role than their Constitutional powers suggest in recent history.

The nature and scope of the crises mentioned is probably a topic for one of the many other threads.

There's no question that Darth Cheney had an impact on the Bush presidency, But I think he's something of an anomaly.

I haven't seen any evidence that Pence is anything more than a front man for the Trump administration's lack of policy regarding Covid 19. What initiatives has he personally orchestrated and controlled? He's little more than a mouthpiece that stands next to Trump during the news briefings and reads the prepared statements that have words too big for Trump to be able to read for himself.
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Old 23rd March 2020, 05:16 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I think the only things that only the VP can do by law are
1) cast the deciding vote for a tie in the Senate; and
2) succeed the President if he dies, resigns, or is removed.

The Pres CAN, of course, task him/her with lots of stuff, or just let him take it over. US foreign policy was controlled by Dick Cheney for about six years.

You know who I'd have liked to see as the Dem VP candidate? Beto O'Rourke. With Liz Warren as the Presidential candidate.
You forgot "Lead viral pandemic effort" as well.
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Old 23rd March 2020, 06:54 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
There's no question that Darth Cheney had an impact on the Bush presidency, But I think he's something of an anomaly.

I haven't seen any evidence that Pence is anything more than a front man for the Trump administration's lack of policy regarding Covid 19. What initiatives has he personally orchestrated and controlled? He's little more than a mouthpiece that stands next to Trump during the news briefings and reads the prepared statements that have words too big for Trump to be able to read for himself.
You are conflating Pence' efficacy at the role with the role itself.
He is being used as a figurehead (and possibly fall guy) for the Trump response- yet he certainly could be more than that without shocking anyone- because we are accustomed to the VP using powers outside their technical purview.
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Old 23rd March 2020, 07:00 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
You are conflating Pence' efficacy at the role with the role itself.
He is being used as a figurehead (and possibly fall guy) for the Trump response- yet he certainly could be more than that without shocking anyone- because we are accustomed to the VP using powers outside their technical purview.
We are? We're accustomed to thinking Dick Cheney used powers outside the Vice President's purview, perhaps. Are we actually accustomed to seeing VPs using powers outside their purview?

What powers outside the VP's purview did Joe Biden customarily use, in the Obama administration?
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Old 23rd March 2020, 09:03 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by DuvalHMFIC View Post
You forgot "Lead viral pandemic effort" as well.
That was two things ONLY the veep can do. They do lots of other stuff.
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Old 23rd March 2020, 11:01 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
There's no question that Darth Cheney had an impact on the Bush presidency, But I think he's something of an anomaly.

I haven't seen any evidence that Pence is anything more than a front man for the Trump administration's lack of policy regarding Covid 19. What initiatives has he personally orchestrated and controlled? He's little more than a mouthpiece that stands next to Trump during the news briefings and reads the prepared statements that have words too big for Trump to be able to read for himself.
You forgot his roles to look adoringly at Trump like an infatuated schoolgirl and to approvingly nod in support of whatever Trump is saying.
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Old 23rd March 2020, 11:22 AM   #144
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Please let it be Al Franken
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Old 23rd March 2020, 11:59 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
We are? We're accustomed to thinking Dick Cheney used powers outside the Vice President's purview, perhaps. Are we actually accustomed to seeing VPs using powers outside their purview?

What powers outside the VP's purview did Joe Biden customarily use, in the Obama administration?
Well, there was that whole thing where his Son took an outrageous salary to get him to fire the Ukranian prosecutor that was prosecuting Burisma for its' corruption.

Something the VP is constitutionally charged with handling?
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Old 23rd March 2020, 12:33 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Well, there was that whole thing where his Son took an outrageous salary to get him to fire the Ukranian prosecutor that was prosecuting Burisma for its' corruption. : rolleyes :

Something the VP is constitutionally charged with handling?
I don't understand what this means. Can you rephrase it?
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Old 23rd March 2020, 03:13 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
You are conflating Pence' efficacy at the role with the role itself.

No. I'm not.

Quote:
He is being used as a figurehead (and possibly fall guy) for the Trump response- yet he certainly could be more than that

Yes. He "could be".

Whether or not he will be is an entirely different question

Quote:
without shocking anyone

Sorry. It would certainly shock me. (I can't speak for anyone else, of course.)

I'm not averse to being pleasantly surprised, but I don't expect to be surprised by anything like this.

After all, we have his record as governor to use as metric.

Quote:
- because we are accustomed to the VP using powers outside their technical purview.

How do you figure that?
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Old 23rd March 2020, 06:30 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
No. I'm not.




Yes. He "could be".

Whether or not he will be is an entirely different question




Sorry. It would certainly shock me. (I can't speak for anyone else, of course.)

I'm not averse to being pleasantly surprised, but I don't expect to be surprised by anything like this.

After all, we have his record as governor to use as metric.




How do you figure that?
Truly?
Conducting foreign policy, heading up pandemic response teams, plotting invasions of Middle Eastern Nations, etc..
None of those things are the Constitutional duty of the VP, yet no one raises their voice in shock when they fill those roles because we are accostomed to their use in such ways.

Even when resistance to their actions is voiced, it is voiced against the various actions carried out- not against those actions being undertaken by the VP.
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Old 24th March 2020, 03:06 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Truly?
Conducting foreign policy, heading up pandemic response teams, plotting invasions of Middle Eastern Nations, etc..
None of those things are the Constitutional duty of the VP, yet no one raises their voice in shock when they fill those roles because we are accostomed to their use in such ways.

Even when resistance to their actions is voiced, it is voiced against the various actions carried out- not against those actions being undertaken by the VP.
On the other hand, none of those things require the VP. The president already has a whole cabinet-level agency for diplomatic work. The Secretary of State can conduct foreign diplomacy. The Secretary of the Interior and the Surgeon General can head up pandemic response. The Secretary of Defense, the National Security Advisor, and the Joint Chiefs of Staff can plot invasions.

And all of these people are ostensibly chosen for the their subject matter expertise. The VP would have to be some kind of polymath, to pinch hit across that whole range of specialties.

Why did Obama replace Clinton with Kerry, instead of just letting Biden fill in on the diplomatic front?
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Old 24th March 2020, 05:51 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
On the other hand, none of those things require the VP. The president already has a whole cabinet-level agency for diplomatic work. The Secretary of State can conduct foreign diplomacy. The Secretary of the Interior and the Surgeon General can head up pandemic response. The Secretary of Defense, the National Security Advisor, and the Joint Chiefs of Staff can plot invasions.

And all of these people are ostensibly chosen for the their subject matter expertise. The VP would have to be some kind of polymath, to pinch hit across that whole range of specialties.

Why did Obama replace Clinton with Kerry, instead of just letting Biden fill in on the diplomatic front?
Certainly, there are positions in the Government often more capable of serving those roles and designed ,in most cases ,specifically to do them.

I am not arguing that there are not. Nor am I arguing that it is uncommon or unacceptable for a VP to be a nearly complete non-entity in an administration without raising eyebrows.

My point is that it is not unusual in more recent times (last 30 years or so) for a VP to take a much more active role. Not that such a role has somehow become a requirement of the office.
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Old 24th March 2020, 12:53 PM   #151
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Just remember, whomever Biden picks as VP can't be worse than Sarah Palin.
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Old 24th March 2020, 01:01 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Certainly, there are positions in the Government often more capable of serving those roles and designed ,in most cases ,specifically to do them.

I am not arguing that there are not. Nor am I arguing that it is uncommon or unacceptable for a VP to be a nearly complete non-entity in an administration without raising eyebrows.

My point is that it is not unusual in more recent times (last 30 years or so) for a VP to take a much more active role. Not that such a role has somehow become a requirement of the office.
The thing is, I'm not sure I've seen recent VPs being "much more active". They may have been appointed to roles that sound like they're really active, but how much action have we really seen from them?

Even Dick Cheney is mostly theorized to have been super active behind the scenes, rather than being seen in action.
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Old 24th March 2020, 02:08 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Just remember, whomever Biden picks as VP can't be worse than Sarah Palin.
Jesus wept, I just had a vision of Biden saying "hold my beer!"
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Old 24th March 2020, 03:17 PM   #154
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The grifter Avenatti is alive, so there's that option
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Old 25th March 2020, 07:46 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Jesus wept, I just had a vision of Biden saying "hold my beer!"
"Sir, I'm already holding your beer. You asked me to hold it because you weren't sure of your grip."

"Oh... Right. I-I guess I forgot. I'm sorry."

"No problem, sir. Happy to help. Let's take another look at potential VP picks, shall we?"

"I want someone with sweet-smelling hair."
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Old 25th March 2020, 08:31 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
"Sir, I'm already holding your beer. You asked me to hold it because you weren't sure of your grip."

"Oh... Right. I-I guess I forgot. I'm sorry."

"No problem, sir. Happy to help. Let's take another look at potential VP picks, shall we?"

"I want someone with sweet-smelling hair."
That is the problem with Biden picking a woman. Lord help him if he tries to stick his nose in a black woman's hair.
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Old 25th March 2020, 10:07 AM   #157
theprestige
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
That is the problem with Biden picking a woman. Lord help him if he tries to stick his nose in a black woman's hair.
... Because we all know how black women are, right?
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Old 25th March 2020, 10:29 AM   #158
Dr. Keith
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
... Because we all know how black women are, right?
Sorry, I shouldn't have assumed knowledge. Here is a documentary that may help.
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He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa

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