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Old 22nd March 2020, 03:36 AM   #281
The Common Potato
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Back in the day, when playing Elite, I was Scorpius. I bought Elite Dangerous a while ago and am now Scorpius Hairloss.

It's scary how these predictions come true. Eight out of ten cats said so.
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Old 22nd March 2020, 03:38 AM   #282
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
As *you* say. Can you show any evidence that acceptance to the challenge was only open to those with mental problems? This seems unlikely when it was one of the excluding factors.

As a magician, Randi was perfectly aware of the deceitfulness people might use to "demonstrate" some feat, which is exactly why the test protocols were carefully agreed by both parties to keep things as simple as practicable and exclude any possibility of cheating by either side.

It was amazing how simply Some of these paranormal powers were to sabotage. Bit of talcum powder in front of a phone book, bit of tape between the blindfold and the nose and woosh the powers stopped.
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Old 22nd March 2020, 04:27 AM   #283
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Originally Posted by Frank McLaughlin View Post
Ad hominen duly noted. Arrogance noted.

If you wish to write to your intellectual superiority, please drop off. The dialog is a waste of time for both us.
You still don't know what an ad hominem is, do you? Hint: the folk you have accused of using it weren't.

Oh, accusations of arrogance from someone who has dismissed most science, amongst other things, and who is still claiming that folk who disagree with his views are "mentally challenged" or similar. Please stop using such terms, as I said before it is offensive and most likely inaccurate (oh yes, I really do know what I'm talking about here).

I'm almost deafened by the sound of goal posts being moved...

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Old 22nd March 2020, 05:49 AM   #284
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Originally Posted by Frank McLaughlin View Post

Sometimes personal experience can get you further than quantitative analysis. Go look at the stones at Sacsayhuaman in Peru. Those were not done by the Incas, the claim is ridiculous. That becomes obvious when you see them in person.
I have looked at those stones.
Sacsayhuaman is not finished. We can see every stage of how the Incas built it. Nothing there suggests anything otherwise.
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Old 22nd March 2020, 05:51 AM   #285
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Originally Posted by Frank McLaughlin View Post

Tell you what. I'll look into that education you speak of, if you'll look into how to right coherently so I can figure out what you are tying to say without reading three times.

You might want to read your posts three times before posting.
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Old 22nd March 2020, 06:13 AM   #286
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Originally Posted by Frank McLaughlin View Post
Interesting to read the study. Just one study without any understanding of how they chose the astrologers or verified the birth times, it doesn't do much to move the needle, but interesting.
The process of choosing the astrologers is explained in their article, which contains the results of the study as well.

https://skepticalinquirer.org/2013/0...ian-astrology/

I think this insistence on verified birth times is a bit of a dodge. How would any astrologer, good or bad, western or vedic, verify a birth time? Beyond asking when their customer was born, how else would they do it? I note that, in the study, they say they rely on the parents- which is the same way that professional astrologers do.
Perhaps you could clarify how astrologers you believe to be genuine verify the birth times?

Originally Posted by Frank McLaughlin View Post
And THEN I noticed that the people running this study were from the Skeptical Inquirer and that the study was not published anywhere.
Well, actually, it was. See above.

Originally Posted by Frank McLaughlin View Post
In fact, by your rules you can't cite this study because there was certainly no peer review or Journal publication---or does that rule your people throw at me all the time only count when it is to your advantage?
The link above cites numerous published studies, by Indian scientists.
Yes, we do insist on properly-conducted studies. If you have doubts about the methodology of the one above, you could state them here, or even, dare I suggest, contact the authors themselves.

Originally Posted by Frank McLaughlin View Post
To cite the Skeptic Inquirer on a study on Vedic Astrology is ridiculous. Kinda like having Mahahishi M Yogi University in Iowa do a study on the ability of their meditation to produce world peace. I'm sure they would be very well intentioned, but you couldn't use that to make your point.

We agree on that, right?
No, actually, we can't.
Read the study. All the researchers did was to run the study. All the actual results were produced by the respondents themselves, on their own. The researchers had no input, and no way to influence the horoscopes.

If Yogi Uni conduct a study under valid conditions, there is no reason it wouldn't be accepted. However, if they set out to prove their idea, rather than allowing the evidence to inform their conclusions, then it would be suspect. 9/11 'researchers', for example, have a bad track record of beginning with the conclusion, and retro-fitting the evidence to suit it.
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Old 22nd March 2020, 07:18 AM   #287
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
I have looked at those stones.
Sacsayhuaman is not finished. We can see every stage of how the Incas built it. Nothing there suggests anything otherwise.
Incas and pre-Inca societies, according to Wiki. But I have an idea* that Frank is adverting to builders from Out There. 130,000 years ago probably I bet. With the help of Atlanteans from Mu. I mean, was old Ed Cayce ever wrong?



* I really must not keep doing that. It's already getting stale.
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Old 22nd March 2020, 07:49 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
The process of choosing the astrologers is explained in their article, which contains the results of the study as well.

https://skepticalinquirer.org/2013/0...ian-astrology/
I wasn't going to comment further on this study until I'd had a chance to look up the details, so thanks for this. Having now read the full article I have nothing much to add to your comments. An epic fail indeed.
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Old 22nd March 2020, 01:30 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by Frank McLaughlin View Post
The guy you studied under, some guy who is dead, you know that about him, but you can't remember his name. How do you know he is dead if you don't know his name? You can't keep your BS straight.
I happen to be particularly poor at recalling names. But even if I could recall it, I would never had it out to some crank on the internet out of respect for the mans family.

Originally Posted by Frank McLaughlin View Post
If you know anything about astrology, Astrology 101, you'd know that the difference between the Sun sign astrology, not part of this forum, and Vedic astrology is night and day. To say they are "the very same" is to indicate you don't have a clue.
Then you should read the tread title to discover that Vedic Astrology is off topic.

Originally Posted by Frank McLaughlin View Post
Let's move on to Edgar Casey. That's an area where you claim to have researched. You claim to know about him. Tell me, what ideas of his do you find objectionable? What was the central points of his teaching?
And you are done. Your ignorance is so towering that you don't even know the man's name. You cannot even pass it off as a typo since you spelled it incorrectly no less than 6 more times in the rest of your pointless rambling screed.
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Old 22nd March 2020, 02:07 PM   #290
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The thread title is confusingly worded but if you read the OP it was created to discuss the debunking of types of astrology other than the usual sun sign type, so Vedic astrology is on topic.

For some reason Frank McLaughlin bumped the thread to continue a discussion he was having four years ago from the exact point he left off. He's making exactly the same argument, and getting exactly the same rebuttals.
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Old 22nd March 2020, 11:18 PM   #291
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Presumably, he resurrected the thread because he had new evidence?

Well, apparently not.
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Old 22nd March 2020, 11:46 PM   #292
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He's even feigning ignorance of the evidence there is, like the Indian study, despite having it brought to his attention four years ago.
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Old 23rd March 2020, 02:18 AM   #293
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Unlurking to note:

Originally Posted by Frank McLaughlin View Post
In 1993 I was told my mother would die 15 years later. She died in 2007 within the timeframe predicted. Cognitive biases has nothing to do with it: my mother is either dead or not.
Originally Posted by Frank McLaughlin View Post
I was told by an American astrologer practicing Indian astrology when my mother would die approximate 30 years before her death. I was in my 30s. She picked a range of years, not the exact year so you could understandably dismiss this as not precise enough.
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Old 23rd March 2020, 03:54 AM   #294
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Maybe he is forgetting stuff while he is getting older. This story certainly got better by the telling.
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Old 23rd March 2020, 06:26 AM   #295
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If any astrology of any type, Vedic, Sun Sign, or Moonshine, actually worked. Those who used it would become rich. The fact that "Frank McLaughlin" bothers to spend time posting here rather than flying around the World in his private 747, proves that it does not.
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Old 23rd March 2020, 07:34 AM   #296
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
If any astrology of any type, Vedic, Sun Sign, or Moonshine, actually worked. Those who used it would become rich. The fact that "Frank McLaughlin" bothers to spend time posting here rather than flying around the World in his private 747, proves that it does not.
To be fair, the astrology industry does turn over a lot of money. They just don't do it by generating real predictions, they do it as entertainment or by giving people whatever reassurance they need to make the decisions they wanted to make anyway. Now that isn't nothing. Both of those things are services people would willingly pay for. It just isn't the thing astrology pretends to do.
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Old 23rd March 2020, 04:06 PM   #297
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
If any astrology of any type, Vedic, Sun Sign, or Moonshine, actually worked. Those who used it would become rich. The fact that "Frank McLaughlin" bothers to spend time posting here rather than flying around the World in his private 747, proves that it does not.
Perhaps arsestrology predicted the current global shut down so he knew not to invest in a 747.

Huh?

Huh?
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Old 23rd March 2020, 04:31 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by Frank McLaughlin View Post
It is a big business in India and Europe and Wall Street. I don't think they light a candle in India without checking with an astrologer. In the Vedas it says "that which is closest to the truth lasts longest," which certainly would include astrology, developed around 7,000 years ago.
Yes, religion is big business everywhere. As religion. And the mechanisms by which astrology is monetized are the same as the mechanisms by which religion is monetized.

This is substantially different from scientifically founded industrial processes, which are monetized by producing measurable goods and services in a predictable, repeatable way. I'm sure there are indeed superstitious investors on Wall Street who consult the stars when making investment decisions. And I'm sure that if you examined their investing strategies, it would be impossible to separate the effect of astrology from the other effects, and identify a predictable, repeatable, contribution from that source.

The reason I'm sure of that second thing is because if astrology were a predictable, repeatable way to play the stock market, it would form the industrial basis for every successful firm on Wall Street.

That's the economic rebuttal. There's no doubt that astrology works as a religion: It profits by telling people stories they want to hear. It profits by exploiting the various failure modes of human cognition, most prominently confirmation bias.

What I'm saying is, astrology only works as a religion. It obviously doesn't work as a scientific principle. If it did, it wouldn't be found alongside the other religions and superstitions of the world. If astrology actually worked, it'd be found alongside the other industrial processes of the world. The manufacture of aluminum from bauxite ore, for example. The prevention of disease by vaccines. The transmission of signals by radio waves. The powering of automobiles by internal combustion or electrical batteries.

If astrology works, beyond making people feel good the same way any other fairy tale works, then it would have been put to work a long time ago.

Show me one demonstration of astrology, that is predictable and repeatable in its results, the way science is predictable and repeatable. Not an anecdote. Not a vague allusion to how popular it is in India. An actual scientific demonstration.

Even if astrology really is more than just a fairy tale, it can't be much more than a fairy tale. It can hardly be anything more than a fairy tale, otherwise we would have noticed by now and put it to work at scale.

---

For me, it's like ghosts. Even if ghosts are real, it's obvious they don't really do anything.
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Old 23rd March 2020, 06:15 PM   #299
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I invite all astrologers to go to www.gjopen.com and make some forecasts. If you can come up with a brier score of 0.05 or so, the world should take note.

Seems like a very simple and easy way to test the efficacy of astrology. If you know anyone who you think is an astrologer whose understanding of astrology can actually lead to accurate predictions, ask them to try.
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Old 23rd March 2020, 10:12 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by Frank McLaughlin View Post
All the evidence I've seen contradicts this. There are web pages full of twins who have never met, showing up for the meeting in the exact same clothing and color with a great many traits in common down to the drink they prefer (diet pepsi or whatever). Twins are not going to be separated by location, but often by time, one birth an hour later. That can be huge.

How about Tom and Mark Kelly, the NASA space station employees? Mark lost all his hair a later than Tom. Both NASA engineers. Both divorced once and remarried. Both with two kids. Agreed, one example does not make a case.
Ever heard of DNA?
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Old 23rd March 2020, 10:28 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by Frank McLaughlin View Post
In the Vedas it says "that which is closest to the truth lasts longest," which certainly would include astrology, developed around 7,000 years ago.
Not that it matters much, but I'd like to see your evidence of this 7000 year old date.

For instance, wikipedia tells me of the history of astrology in India:

Quote:
The earliest use of the term jyotiṣa is in the sense of a Vedanga, an auxiliary discipline of Vedic religion. The only work of this class to have survived is the Vedanga Jyotisha, which contains rules for tracking the motions of the sun and the moon in the context of a five-year intercalation cycle. The date of this work is uncertain, as its late style of language and composition, consistent with the last centuries BC, albeit pre-Mauryan, conflicts with some internal evidence of a much earlier date in the 2nd millennium BC.[68][69]
It also has this to say:

Quote:
Babylonian astrology was the first organized system of astrology, arising in the 2nd millennium BC.[13] There is speculation that astrology of some form appeared in the Sumerian period in the 3rd millennium BC, but the isolated references to ancient celestial omens dated to this period are not considered sufficient evidence to demonstrate an integrated theory of astrology.[14] The history of scholarly celestial divination is therefore generally reported to begin with late Old Babylonian texts (c. 1800 BC), continuing through the Middle Babylonian and Middle Assyrian periods (c. 1200 BC).[15]
So between four and five thousand years old, maybe a thousand years older than that if the Sumerian claims are correct.
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Old 23rd March 2020, 11:52 PM   #302
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Raindancing is thousands of years old. So is animal sacrifice.

Saw one of those documentarry series a while back in which a hardy type goes backpacking to the parts of the world which tourists rarely visit. In one episode, in the Himalayas IIRC, he accompanied some villagers as they took a struggling goat to a high point and threw it into a deep ravine, to ensure a good harvest or something. The traveller remarked on how important it was that such ancient traditions were still preserved. The goat's opinion was not recorded.
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Old 24th March 2020, 12:41 AM   #303
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Raindancing is thousands of years old. So is animal sacrifice.
I was going to say, that at least with animal sacrifice you can predict a meal afterwards.

But I guess I was wrong (or I’ve been doing it wrong all these years)
Quote:
Saw one of those documentarry series a while back in which a hardy type goes backpacking to the parts of the world which tourists rarely visit. In one episode, in the Himalayas IIRC, he accompanied some villagers as they took a struggling goat to a high point and threw it into a deep ravine, to ensure a good harvest or something. The traveller remarked on how important it was that such ancient traditions were still preserved. The goat's opinion was not recorded.
it couldn’t beleat it was happening to it.
I kid you not.
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Old 24th March 2020, 02:44 AM   #304
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Originally Posted by Frank McLaughlin View Post
Interesting to read the study. Just one study without any understanding of how they chose the astrologers or verified the birth times, it doesn't do much to move the needle, but interesting.

India is filled with bad astrologers and astrologers who cheat--I know this first hand. There was a famous Indian astrologer in southern CA who gave me a reading twice on the phone ($250 a pop) and he just wasn't any good, though he was popular. He got a few things right, but overall he was very poor. This represents a initial problem. Finding the right people to test. Had you picked this CA guy for testing you would have reached the wrong conclusion.

And THEN I noticed that the people running this study were from the Skeptical Inquirer and that the study was not published anywhere.

In fact, by your rules you can't cite this study because there was certainly no peer review or Journal publication---or does that rule your people throw at me all the time only count when it is to your advantage?

To cite the Skeptic Inquirer on a study on Vedic Astrology is ridiculous. Kinda like having Mahahishi M Yogi University in Iowa do a study on the ability of their meditation to produce world peace. I'm sure they would be very well intentioned, but you couldn't use that to make your point.

We agree on that, right?
Why is it so hard for proponents of astrology to come up with even a single scientific study that supports their proposition?

Proponents of 3D printing don't have this problem.

Or what about weather forecasts? Weather conditions are an important factor in military operations. Weather forecasting is a critical military task. Accurate weather forecasting is also notoriously difficult. Why don't military planners have astrologers on their meteorology staffs?

Why isn't astrologer a military occupation specialty, like helicopter pilot or intelligence analyst? Hell, I served as an intelligence analyst. Why weren't the basics of astrology part of my training?

Did you know it's common practice to build dossiers on enemy commanders, as an aid in trying to predict their actions? Did you know that it is not common practice to include astrological analysis in those dossiers?
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Old 24th March 2020, 03:32 AM   #305
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
This is a fabulous point! Frank McLaughlin claims science only focuses on proving established ideas and cannot accept new ideas “such as astrology.” But it was astrology that was the established idea historically. It was science that eventually rigorously tested astrology and concluded it was bunk.
More over, compare the scientific understanding of 200 years ago that of today and it makes a mockery of the idea that science is hostile to new ideas. Science is hostile to unevidenced ideas.
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Old 24th March 2020, 03:45 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by Frank McLaughlin View Post
Tell you what. I'll look into that education you speak of, if you'll look into how to right coherently so I can figure out what you are tying to say without reading three times.
"Write". Normally, I'd consider pointing that out to be petty, but, glass houses and stones.
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Old 24th March 2020, 05:16 AM   #307
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Anyway, just to try to take Mr McLaughlin a bit more seriously...

Vedic astrology still relies on planetary positions at time of birth; still relies on those arbitrary and only in any way visible from here groupings of stars which have been labelled constellations, even though most of the stars are further from each other than from here; still relies on some mysterious and as yet unexplained and unmeasured by anything approaching science force or energy to have any effect; still hasn't provided consistent and testable predictions about anything much; still requires all manner of special pleading from its proponents...

That's different from "standard" astrology how?

And why should I give it any more credence?

Last edited by Carrot Flower King; 24th March 2020 at 05:18 AM. Reason: Sense...
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Old 24th March 2020, 01:32 PM   #308
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Raindancing is thousands of years old. So is animal sacrifice.

Saw one of those documentarry series a while back in which a hardy type goes backpacking to the parts of the world which tourists rarely visit. In one episode, in the Himalayas IIRC, he accompanied some villagers as they took a struggling goat to a high point and threw it into a deep ravine, to ensure a good harvest or something. The traveller remarked on how important it was that such ancient traditions were still preserved. The goat's opinion was not recorded.
https://www.ispot.tv/ad/ZuPA/spectru...llen-degeneres

For those that must know before clicking, Man sacrifices commercial.
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Old 24th March 2020, 01:45 PM   #309
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
If any astrology of any type, Vedic, Sun Sign, or Moonshine, actually worked. Those who used it would become rich. The fact that "Frank McLaughlin" bothers to spend time posting here rather than flying around the World in his private 747, proves that it does not.
Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King View Post
Anyway, just to try to take Mr McLaughlin a bit more seriously...

Vedic astrology still relies on planetary positions at time of birth; still relies on those arbitrary and only in any way visible from here groupings of stars which have been labelled constellations, even though most of the stars are further from each other than from here; still relies on some mysterious and as yet unexplained and unmeasured by anything approaching science force or energy to have any effect; still hasn't provided consistent and testable predictions about anything much; still requires all manner of special pleading from its proponents...

That's different from "standard" astrology how?

And why should I give it any more credence?
Well, it can't be gravity. We already know that when it comes to sun sign astrology, the gravitational influence of Jupiter is completely lost in the gravitational fluctuations from cars in the street outside the maternity ward.

Even if Vedic astrology worked, its effects would be overridden by sun sign astrology anyway.
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Old 24th March 2020, 01:48 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
I was going to say, that at least with animal sacrifice you can predict a meal afterwards.
My impression is that cultures that take animal sacrifice seriously take the sacrifice part seriously. It's not a sacrifice if you get to eat it, too. The whole point is that you set aside part of your profit out of respect for a higher power whose good will you hope to influence. Telling god this goat is for him, and then eating it yourself... Do you want to get cursed? Because that's how you get cursed.
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Old 24th March 2020, 02:10 PM   #311
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What I have found recently when I look at those 'daily/monthly horoscopes', is amusing. For example; "Spend more time alone." "Remove yourself from your daily social interactions". "Instead of visiting, phone your loved ones".

It is as if astrologers are trying to be socially responsible? Yes, it amused me.
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Old 24th March 2020, 04:23 PM   #312
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
My impression is that cultures that take animal sacrifice seriously take the sacrifice part seriously. It's not a sacrifice if you get to eat it, too. The whole point is that you set aside part of your profit out of respect for a higher power whose good will you hope to influence. Telling god this goat is for him, and then eating it yourself... Do you want to get cursed? Because that's how you get cursed.
Many cultures (I can’t really say most as I don’t know) do/did indeed eat the meat of sacrificed animals. The sharing of it within the community is just as important to them as the ritual of the sacrifice itself.
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Old 24th March 2020, 05:56 PM   #313
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Telling god this goat is for him, and then eating it yourself... Do you want to get cursed? Because that's how you get cursed.That's the Priest's job
FTFY
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Old 24th March 2020, 07:20 PM   #314
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
My impression is that cultures that take animal sacrifice seriously take the sacrifice part seriously. It's not a sacrifice if you get to eat it, too. The whole point is that you set aside part of your profit out of respect for a higher power whose good will you hope to influence. Telling god this goat is for him, and then eating it yourself... Do you want to get cursed? Because that's how you get cursed.
An interesting little tidbit: in China you still see ancestor worship and people will burn things as an offering to their dead ancestors. Things like a warm sweater because they might be cold. They also have "money" that they burn, but it's money specifically made for burning for them. Another offering is food, and you put that food out in a bowl with chopsticks in the food to give to your ancestors.

Anyway, the interesting bit is that because of the way you put chopsticks in the bowl for an offering, with the chopsticks sticking into the rice, say, when you're eating your own food you never stick your chopsticks into the food like that. It's a pretty easy thing to do: you're eating, you stop to say something or to reach for a drink, and you want to put your chopsticks down. Where do you put them? Stick them into the rice. Then the people around you gasp in horror because your ancestors will think the food is for them now and when you go back to eating it they'll be pissed.
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Old 26th March 2020, 10:33 AM   #315
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
My impression is that cultures that take animal sacrifice seriously take the sacrifice part seriously. It's not a sacrifice if you get to eat it, too. The whole point is that you set aside part of your profit out of respect for a higher power whose good will you hope to influence. Telling god this goat is for him, and then eating it yourself... Do you want to get cursed? Because that's how you get cursed.
I think that's a different thing. There's a distinction between making a sacrificial offering (which might get shared with the community) and diving the future from the entrails of a sacrificed animal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haruspex

I believe sacrificing and sharing of (typically) a goat is still a major part of Eid celebrations in Islam but it's not a form of divination.
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Old 26th March 2020, 12:06 PM   #316
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
I think that's a different thing. There's a distinction between making a sacrificial offering (which might get shared with the community) and diving the future from the entrails of a sacrificed animal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haruspex

I believe sacrificing and sharing of (typically) a goat is still a major part of Eid celebrations in Islam but it's not a form of divination.
I think it's Offler the Crocodile God on Discworld who receives offerings of sausages. His priests make the offering of the spirit of the sausages for Offler to savour while they take care of disposing of the crude and lowley matter of which the sausages are made.
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Old 26th March 2020, 12:57 PM   #317
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
I think it's Offler the Crocodile God on Discworld who receives offerings of sausages. His priests make the offering of the spirit of the sausages for Offler to savour while they take care of disposing of the crude and lowley matter of which the sausages are made.
I've been trying to remember the name of that god. The priest solemnly explains that because the sausageosity of the sausages is consumed by the god, the substance of it turns to ash in their mouths.

The Discworld pantheon is extensive. My personal favourite is Bilious, the Oh God of Hangovers.

I wonder if Frank McLaughlin will be back in another four years to resume this discussion where he left off yet again.
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Old 26th March 2020, 01:06 PM   #318
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
I wonder if Frank McLaughlin will be back in another four years to resume this discussion where he left off yet again.
Maybe the Vedas have told him his next fringe reset will be more successful if it's aligned with the Grand Conjunction.
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Old 26th March 2020, 02:07 PM   #319
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
What I have found recently when I look at those 'daily/monthly horoscopes', is amusing. For example; "Spend more time alone." "Remove yourself from your daily social interactions". "Instead of visiting, phone your loved ones".

It is as if astrologers are trying to be socially responsible? Yes, it amused me.

Well of course the astrologers can see the virus in the stars. That’s why they were all warning us about it months ago....
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Old 26th March 2020, 02:34 PM   #320
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Well of course the astrologers can see the virus in the stars. That’s why they were all warning us about it months ago....
Not all of them can, though. My wife just looked in todays newspaper horoscope and for Sagittarius (that's me if you count my premature caesarian as a birth date...I'm sure the knife glittered in the starlight....)the prediction is "Grab every chance to socialize and party with others, because you're in the mood for fun. Sports Events, playful activities with kids and romantic dates are great choices." For Capricorn, which might also be my sign if you decide it is, the forecast is "This is a great day for a warm-hearted, family discussion. You might also want to entertain at home and invite people over to share good food and drink."

I might also have been an aquarius, if the planets had pulled right, but all they want me to do then is have meaningful discussions and avoid idle chitchat. Deep, man.

If today was your birthday one of the things recommended is to grab every chance to travel.

Wow, right on the money! I beleeeeeeve!
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