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Tags Amanda Knox , Italy cases , Meredith Kercher , murder cases , Raffaele Sollecito

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Old 7th March 2020, 09:30 PM   #1561
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
If she had not wanted others to share in that experience, she would not have posted it...unlike those who took pictures of her guests arriving and her at her wedding party with telephoto lenses who were uninvited.
I understand that. But to me it seems deeply personal. I get showing something like that to loved ones and friends. And I'm not suggesting that Amanda is doing something wrong. It just feels strange me viewing it.

Maybe, that doesn't make sense. But I went from loving watching her joy to feeling like I was doing something wrong and had to turn it off.
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Old 9th March 2020, 07:03 AM   #1562
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I understand that. But to me it seems deeply personal. I get showing something like that to loved ones and friends. And I'm not suggesting that Amanda is doing something wrong. It just feels strange me viewing it.

Maybe, that doesn't make sense. But I went from loving watching her joy to feeling like I was doing something wrong and had to turn it off.
Changing subjects....

Perhaps I missed it but when did the amandaknoxcase dot com website get locked down and how does one get a login to get onto the site? Anyone know?
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Old 9th March 2020, 08:28 AM   #1563
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Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
Changing subjects....

Perhaps I missed it but when did the amandaknoxcase dot com website get locked down and how does one get a login to get onto the site? Anyone know?
I don't know. Maybe someone else can answer.
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Old 9th March 2020, 11:01 AM   #1564
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Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
Changing subjects....

Perhaps I missed it but when did the amandaknoxcase dot com website get locked down and how does one get a login to get onto the site? Anyone know?
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I don't know. Maybe someone else can answer.
The page is moving to a new server. It could take a few days.
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Old 9th March 2020, 11:19 AM   #1565
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Originally Posted by Methos View Post
The page is moving to a new server. It could take a few days.
Thanks Methos! Hi AC. ....and now you do.
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Old 9th March 2020, 11:31 AM   #1566
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Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
Thanks Methos! Hi AC. ....and now you do.
Hi back.
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Old 9th March 2020, 02:56 PM   #1567
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
It's so weird to watch that proposal video. On the one hand, it is great to see Amanda so joyful and happy. But it also feels wrong to watch it. Like you're a Peeping Tom peeking through your neighbor's windows. Like haven't we invaded her life enough already?
I understand how you feel about the video and of course the question: "haven't we invaded her life enough already?" is the right one to ask.
But I'm also with Stacyhs when it comes to:
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
If she had not wanted others to share in that experience, she would not have posted it...unlike those who took pictures of her guests arriving and her at her wedding party with telephoto lenses who were uninvited.
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I understand that. But to me it seems deeply personal. I get showing something like that to loved ones and friends. And I'm not suggesting that Amanda is doing something wrong. It just feels strange me viewing it.

Maybe, that doesn't make sense. But I went from loving watching her joy to feeling like I was doing something wrong and had to turn it off.
Amanda Knox published an article titled: Your Content, My Life in June last year, describing how the tabloids turn "her life" (i.e. what she posts on social media) into "their content" (i.e. the "story" they want to make of it)...

So I don't feel like a "Peeping Tom", taking a look, now and then, at the joys and sadnesses she's willing to share on twitter and instagram...

I'm just laughing at the stupid stories the Daily Fail and especially Barbie Nadeau at the Daily Beast were trying to make up from the proposal video and everything else she posts on social media like Barbie on Knox making her instagram public

"Bizzare" is the word most publications, even publications here in Germany, chose to descibe the proposal and the wedding...
I wonder why? Maybe because no one writing articles about the proposal or the wedding cared to watch this "behind the scenes" video?
Or is it, because those "writers" simply don't get the reference?

42

Just for the record: I think the proposal was brilliant

Eta: Looks like "Amanda Watch" is in service again producing "content" from nothing:
Newlywed Amanda Knox posts picture of her 'hubby for a week' as she and poet Christopher Robinson enjoy mackerel avocado toast for breakfast...
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Old 9th March 2020, 04:09 PM   #1568
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Originally Posted by Methos View Post
I understand how you feel about the video and of course the question: "haven't we invaded her life enough already?" is the right one to ask.
But I'm also with Stacyhs when it comes to:

Amanda Knox published an article titled: Your Content, My Life in June last year, describing how the tabloids turn "her life" (i.e. what she posts on social media) into "their content" (i.e. the "story" they want to make of it)...

So I don't feel like a "Peeping Tom", taking a look, now and then, at the joys and sadnesses she's willing to share on twitter and instagram...

I'm just laughing at the stupid stories the Daily Fail and especially Barbie Nadeau at the Daily Beast were trying to make up from the proposal video and everything else she posts on social media like Barbie on Knox making her instagram public

"Bizzare" is the word most publications, even publications here in Germany, chose to descibe the proposal and the wedding...
I wonder why? Maybe because no one writing articles about the proposal or the wedding cared to watch this "behind the scenes" video?
Or is it, because those "writers" simply don't get the reference?

42

Just for the record: I think the proposal was brilliant

Eta: Looks like "Amanda Watch" is in service again producing "content" from nothing:
Newlywed Amanda Knox posts picture of her 'hubby for a week' as she and poet Christopher Robinson enjoy mackerel avocado toast for breakfast...
I certainly didn't think the proposal was bizarre. Theatrical and unique maybe. But what's wrong with that? I think that makes it special. A good friend of mine asked his wife to marry him doing a skit around Back to the Future.

Here's one of my favorite proposals on YouTube.
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


I don't think Amanda was wrong in sharing it and there is nothing wrong in watching it. I'm just saying I felt a little weird.
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Old 9th March 2020, 06:32 PM   #1569
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Originally Posted by Methos View Post
Amanda Knox published an article titled: Your Content, My Life in June last year, describing how the tabloids turn "her life" (i.e. what she posts on social media) into "their content" (i.e. the "story" they want to make of it)...
There are people who are on the guilter side of the fence who've made a fairly decent living off of monetizing "Amanda Knox".

Barbie Nadeau is the worst. If anyone wants to know what Michael Winterbottom thinks of Barbie Nadeau, you should watch his (not well received, admittedly) film from 2014, "The Face of an Angel." Winterbottom "monetized" Nadeau's story, and made Nadeau look like a cocaine-addled, sexually promiscuous, hack tabloid reporter. Nadeau, for her part, cashed the cheque that Winterbottom's film company wrote to her (or more precisely, to The Daily Beast) for rights to her slutty little book.

That Nadeau actively cooperated in the making of the film, including a cameo
outside the cottage as a reporter covering the murder, makes it truly weird.

Nadeau continues to try to put artificial content around Knox's life, virtually ignoring Sollecito, and esp. the real murderer, Rudy Guede. It has simply been too lucrative for Nadeau not to.

All the guilters have is pop-gun criticisms - accusing scientific supporters of the case for innocence as "in it for the money", when there is no evidence, none at all, that anyone like Dr. Peter Gill took money. All Dr. Gill did was write peer reviewed papers.

The tabloids continue to troll Knox's social media accounts, and know they'll get "clicks" by misrepresenting an otherwise innocent picture. It's the way they roll. It is embarrasingly transparent what the tabloids continue to do.
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Old 9th March 2020, 07:28 PM   #1570
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So true.

The Daily Mail continued their anti-Knox bias with this headline from their coverage of her wedding:
Quote:
Amanda Knox wears bizarre yellow outfit as she marries poet boyfriend at out-of-this-world 'space-themed' wedding ceremony...
It would have been bizarre except for the theme of the party. It would be considered 'bizarre' to wear a Greek toga to a traditional wedding...but not to an ancient Greek themed wedding. The fact that guests wore many different costumes from different eras..including the future...makes Knox's choice not bizarre at all.

Despite what the DM claims, it was not 'space themed' but 'time machine' themed which accounts for the varying styles of costumes. But leave it to the DM...
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Old 9th March 2020, 09:06 PM   #1571
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
So true.

The Daily Mail continued their anti-Knox bias with this headline from their coverage of her wedding:


It would have been bizarre except for the theme of the party. It would be considered 'bizarre' to wear a Greek toga to a traditional wedding...but not to an ancient Greek themed wedding. The fact that guests wore many different costumes from different eras..including the future...makes Knox's choice not bizarre at all.

Despite what the DM claims, it was not 'space themed' but 'time machine' themed which accounts for the varying styles of costumes. But leave it to the DM...
People have this idea that a wedding ceremony is supposed to look a certain way and when it strays too far from the formula it is strange to them. Wearing bright yellow Hufflepuff pants seems different to me for such an affair, but its clear they didn't want tradition and something stuffy but wanted something fun. So why the hell not?
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Old 10th March 2020, 07:46 AM   #1572
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Despite what the DM claims, it was not 'space themed' but 'time machine' themed which accounts for the varying styles of costumes. But leave it to the DM...
Knox's first Halloween back in Seattle 2011 she was stalked by paparazzi, they got a long lens photo of her going to a party dressed as her favourite Seattle Sounder soccer player, complete with drawn-on curly mustache.

Tabloids and guilter-nutters went ga-ga, accusing her of dressing as a burglar so close to the anniversary of the horrible murder.

It was no good to point out the mistake here on these forums... you'd get a response like, "once again you're defending your precious murderer, who you secretly fantasize about."

I once pointed out the ridiculousness of THAT response, and was dared to say I was not fantasizing about a precious murderer. Sigh.

What's changed over the years is the number of gaslighting guilter-nutters online about this, and less tabloid stalking for clickbait. Although not gone.
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Old 10th March 2020, 08:04 AM   #1573
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Originally Posted by Methos View Post
Eta: Looks like "Amanda Watch" is in service again producing "content" from nothing:
When the decidedly nonesteemed Daily Mail posted an article about John Kercher Sr's death when the news first broke, it got a whopping 36 comments. Then, after one of their trashy articles about Knox's wedding - the one in which they printed the pictures they stole from Eonline! - over 800 comments, most of them stupid, followed.

The other day news broke that John Kercher Sr. died as a result of injuries sustained from a fall. Per the local police who investigated, no car "hit and run" occurred and nobody is being sought in connection with his death. Apparently this isn't interesting enough for the Daily Mail to run a story on. Nor, evidently, do the TJMK lunatic few feel it's important enough to so much as mention. I'd at least have thought the, um, "Machine" would have said something.

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Old 10th March 2020, 03:51 PM   #1574
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Meanwhile in Italy:
Salvatore Parolisi, Winston Reyes e Rudy Guede: la laurea dietro le sbarre sognando un futuro e il riscatto

I wonder, if we should expect more "feel good" pieces like this one, as a certain Rudy Guede is getting closer to be released?

Quote:
"E c’è poi un terzo assistito dell’avvocato Biscotti che di laurea ne ha già presa una e sta per conseguirne una seconda. Si tratta di Rudy Guede, l’ivoriano condannato in concorso con ignoti (Amanda Knox e Raffaele Sollecito sono stati assolti in Cassazione) per l’assassinio della studentessa Meredith Kercher il 1 novembre 2007 a Perugia. Nel carcere di Viterbo, Guede si è già laureato con 110 e lode in Scienze storiche del territorio e della cooperazione internazionale e a breve diventerà di nuovo dottore in Storia e società all’università di Roma Tre con una tesi in narrazione cinematografica . «Quando Rudy fu condannato – ricorda l’avvocato Biscotti – gli consigliai di diplomarsi e laurearsi in prigione. “Fai finta di essere chiuso in un collegio svizzero e prendi la laurea” gli dissi e lui mi ha dato ampiamente ascolto».
[...]
A due lauree punta Rudy Guede, che oggi ha 34 anni, e ha già scontato 12 dei 16 anni di reclusione che gli sono stati inflitti con il rito abbreviato. Non ha mai negato di essere presente in casa al momento dell’omicidio ma si è sempre professato innocente. «Chi lo incontra oggi – sottolinea l’avvocato – racconta di un Rudy serio ed impegnato. Credo che anche gli studi in carcere abbiano contribuito molto alla sua riabilitazione».
[...]
(where's the vomitting little yellow fellow when needed?)

As a sidenote: not a sentence about the wedding on TJMK so far...
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Old 10th March 2020, 04:30 PM   #1575
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Writers who "cover" celebrity weddings are accustomed to their subjects pursuing "style" above all else. The kind of style that's based on conformity and money, not creativity and individuality. They have no clue how real people plan weddings for themselves.

You know, throughout this whole story and thread, for all these years, I've never thought of Amanda Knox as someone I either disliked or liked. My interest was in the facts of the case and the behavior of the people involved in it.

But, more recently I've been getting the distinct impression that she's very cool and sweet. (Just to know where I'm coming from there, my own proposal was D&D themed, and involved a multi-player four-level Gingerbread dungeon with candy monsters and gingerbread PCs and a gingerbread princess to rescue and a diamond ring in the final treasure vault, which my fiancee-to-be had helped build over the previous week, but the ring part was a surprise.)
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Old 10th March 2020, 06:21 PM   #1576
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
Writers who "cover" celebrity weddings are accustomed to their subjects pursuing "style" above all else. The kind of style that's based on conformity and money, not creativity and individuality. They have no clue how real people plan weddings for themselves.

You know, throughout this whole story and thread, for all these years, I've never thought of Amanda Knox as someone I either disliked or liked. My interest was in the facts of the case and the behavior of the people involved in it.

But, more recently I've been getting the distinct impression that she's very cool and sweet. (Just to know where I'm coming from there, my own proposal was D&D themed, and involved a multi-player four-level Gingerbread dungeon with candy monsters and gingerbread PCs and a gingerbread princess to rescue and a diamond ring in the final treasure vault, which my fiancee-to-be had helped build over the previous week, but the ring part was a surprise.)
It's funny. I haven't wanted to like her.

But, I haven't wanted to dislike her either. I wanted my judgment to be based entirely on the merits of the case. But yes, she seems very sweet and nerdy.
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Old 10th March 2020, 07:42 PM   #1577
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
It's funny. I haven't wanted to like her.

But, I haven't wanted to dislike her either. I wanted my judgment to be based entirely on the merits of the case. But yes, she seems very sweet and nerdy.
Just wait. She'll kill again.
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Old 10th March 2020, 08:28 PM   #1578
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Just wait. She'll kill again.
Is she going to do stand up?
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Old 10th March 2020, 10:48 PM   #1579
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Is she going to do stand up?
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Old 11th March 2020, 05:10 PM   #1580
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Originally Posted by AnimalFriendly View Post
When the decidedly nonesteemed Daily Mail posted an article about John Kercher Sr's death when the news first broke, it got a whopping 36 comments. Then, after one of their trashy articles about Knox's wedding - the one in which they printed the pictures they stole from Eonline! - over 800 comments, most of them stupid, followed.

The other day news broke that John Kercher Sr. died as a result of injuries sustained from a fall. Per the local police who investigated, no car "hit and run" occurred and nobody is being sought in connection with his death. Apparently this isn't interesting enough for the Daily Mail to run a story on. Nor, evidently, do the TJMK lunatic few feel it's important enough to so much as mention. I'd at least have thought the, um, "Machine" would have said something.


Yes. Though frankly, I think it was pretty irresponsible of the police to say anything at all after John Kercher's death other than "we are currently treating his death as unexplained" (standard police argot in this situation). They certainly should not have been explicitly mentioning things like physical violence or hit-and-run, and most definitely not until after receiving the autopsy results and report. Of course, it would have been entirely prudent for them to have been pursuing all lines of inquiry right from the start (including door-to-door inquiries, seizure and analysis of all local CCTV footage, detailed forensic examination of the death scene, etc). But that could - and should - all have been taking place behind the scenes.

But by going beyond the "treating death as unexplained" statement and articulating the possibility that he might have been the victim of a hit and run or a physical assault, the police gave a good ol' green light to the tabloids to sensationalise-it-up. After all, a newspaper story headlined "Meredith Kercher's father dead: police say he may have been hit-and-run victim" is a LOT more eye-catching than, say, "Meredith Kercher's father dead: police currently treating death as unexplained".

The disgusting Mail, of course, went one step further still - implying that he actually WAS a victim of a hit-and-run driver, with this headline: "Tragedy as father of British student Meredith Kercher murdered in Amanda Knox case dies after 'hit-and-run' smash yards from his home"

On top of that, frankly I'd have thought that an experienced hospital A&E consultant (which is where John Kercher would have been taken as soon as he was found) could pretty easily have judged his injuries as entirely consistent with a man of his age and health collapsing onto a hard surface, and could consequently probably state that it was improbable that his injuries were consistent with either a hit and run or a physical assault. And police would/could have known that level of information literally within a couple of hours - long before they would have issued their initial press release.

Sadly, the media (and especially UK tabloid newspaper) reporting of the death of John Kercher turned out to be another vivid illustration of the type of "journalism" which so tainted the Knox/Sollecito trial process: sensationalism and lurid speculation is magnified and printed in 28-point, even when there's little or no actual evidence underpinning it; and the more sober, less sensational, less lurid truth is almost forgotten (and when not forgotten, is most certainly given far, far less prominence).
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Old 11th March 2020, 05:22 PM   #1581
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
It's funny. I haven't wanted to like her.

But, I haven't wanted to dislike her either. I wanted my judgment to be based entirely on the merits of the case. But yes, she seems very sweet and nerdy.


This is one whole area in which I find the attitude of most pro-guilt commentators to be misdirectional at best, and downright disgusting at most. The standard pro-guilt trope seems to be that people arguing for Knox's (and, erm, Sollecito's) non-guilt/innocence are "fans" of Knox/Sollecito; and it's far from uncommon to see pro-guilt commentators go beyond that to claim that pro-acquittal/pro-innocence commentators are lusting after Knox (and even hoping for reciprocation of that lust.....).

As with you, my opinion on Knox and Sollecito as people is entirely divorced from - and unconnected to - my opinion on their non-guilt/innocence in the Kercher murder case. As it happens, I think Sollecito, while fundamentally decent, may be emotionally underdeveloped (he's certainly done some pretty stupid and regrettable things in the years since his acquittal), while I think Knox is probably kind-hearted, spontaneous (which can sometimes come back to bite her), passionate and extrovert.

But, as I say, I hardly spend any time at all wondering about whether I'd like either of them or not, or whether I'd choose to be friends with either of them or not. Because it's irrelevant to my analysis of the case itself. And as it happens (and I've mentioned it before), the only previous case in which I've publicly argued for a wrongful conviction involved a man who could only be described as an unpleasant, creepy, untrustworthy fantasist: Barry George.
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Old 11th March 2020, 05:59 PM   #1582
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Regarding John Kercher, I agree that the tabloids did their usual and sensationalized it as much as they could. I also agree that the injuries sustained in an elderly person's fall would be very different from those sustained from being hit by a car. My grandmother fell at the age of 97 and died from those injuries. Not once did the ER doctors ask if she'd been hit by a car even though she'd fallen in a parking lot and was found there by some passing high school students.
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Old 11th March 2020, 06:43 PM   #1583
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
This is one whole area in which I find the attitude of most pro-guilt commentators to be misdirectional at best, and downright disgusting at most. The standard pro-guilt trope seems to be that people arguing for Knox's (and, erm, Sollecito's) non-guilt/innocence are "fans" of Knox/Sollecito; and it's far from uncommon to see pro-guilt commentators go beyond that to claim that pro-acquittal/pro-innocence commentators are lusting after Knox (and even hoping for reciprocation of that lust.....).

As with you, my opinion on Knox and Sollecito as people is entirely divorced from - and unconnected to - my opinion on their non-guilt/innocence in the Kercher murder case. As it happens, I think Sollecito, while fundamentally decent, may be emotionally underdeveloped (he's certainly done some pretty stupid and regrettable things in the years since his acquittal), while I think Knox is probably kind-hearted, spontaneous (which can sometimes come back to bite her), passionate and extrovert.

But, as I say, I hardly spend any time at all wondering about whether I'd like either of them or not, or whether I'd choose to be friends with either of them or not. Because it's irrelevant to my analysis of the case itself. And as it happens (and I've mentioned it before), the only previous case in which I've publicly argued for a wrongful conviction involved a man who could only be described as an unpleasant, creepy, untrustworthy fantasist: Barry George.
I thought Raffaele was more balanced for many of those years. I admired him as a human being. He was as much a stand up guy as could be possible.

But just as much as Amanda was singled out, he was ignored. And her road to recovery had to be easier. She mad much more money from her book than Raffaele did. She was here in America and here in Seattle with much more support as well as separation from the insanity which is Italy. Raffaele also had to live in fear of the much more real possibility of being arrested and incarcerated again where there was a strong probability that she wouldn't have been extradited.

I think I always liked the Amanda that was described to me in the past. But I never forgot that this was what was written about her and not necessarily who she is. Just as she probably wasn't the demon the press and the nutters made her out to be, she also very well may not be the sweetie I thought she probably was.

The fact of the matter is I know by the evidence, not just the lack of evidence that Amanda didn't have anything to do with Meredith's murder. So I guess it is ok to drop my resistance to liking her.
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Old 11th March 2020, 11:50 PM   #1584
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I thought Raffaele was more balanced for many of those years. I admired him as a human being. He was as much a stand up guy as could be possible.

But just as much as Amanda was singled out, he was ignored. And her road to recovery had to be easier. She mad much more money from her book than Raffaele did. She was here in America and here in Seattle with much more support as well as separation from the insanity which is Italy. Raffaele also had to live in fear of the much more real possibility of being arrested and incarcerated again where there was a strong probability that she wouldn't have been extradited.

I think I always liked the Amanda that was described to me in the past. But I never forgot that this was what was written about her and not necessarily who she is. Just as she probably wasn't the demon the press and the nutters made her out to be, she also very well may not be the sweetie I thought she probably was.

The fact of the matter is I know by the evidence, not just the lack of evidence that Amanda didn't have anything to do with Meredith's murder. So I guess it is ok to drop my resistance to liking her.
Most men who had only known her for 6 weeks would have turned on her in a second and thrown her under the bus. Of course, the PGP have often tried to claim he did, because of what he said during the illegal interrogation. But once he had time to recover, he recanted all of that and stood by her.
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Old 12th March 2020, 09:30 AM   #1585
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Most men who had only known her for 6 weeks would have turned on her in a second and thrown her under the bus. Of course, the PGP have often tried to claim he did, because of what he said during the illegal interrogation. But once he had time to recover, he recanted all of that and stood by her.
I don't know about most. But definitely many would.

Raffaele has been through a lot. He hasn't always chosen the right words.

There was a time I worried much more about Amanda recovering from this ordeal. She in fact seemed a mess for the first few years after her release. But not any more. I worry about Raffaele thinking he may have often been putting on a brave face.
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Old 12th March 2020, 10:33 AM   #1586
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I don't know about most. But definitely many would.

Raffaele has been through a lot. He hasn't always chosen the right words.

There was a time I worried much more about Amanda recovering from this ordeal. She in fact seemed a mess for the first few years after her release. But not any more. I worry about Raffaele thinking he may have often been putting on a brave face.
I think most would have. but that's not meant as a criticism against men in general. After all, we're talking about spending life in prison vs. a girl he'd known 6 weeks.
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Old 12th March 2020, 11:27 AM   #1587
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Don't forget his sister Vanessa who was treated disgracefully. I wonder what she is doing now.

Also, does anyone know if Raffaele has an appeal with the ECHR? He had his trainers taken away at some point during the interrogation so he would certainly be as suspect at that point since he would be in no position to leave of his own free will. He should certainly have had a lawyer too.

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Old 12th March 2020, 12:14 PM   #1588
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Originally Posted by TomG View Post
Don't forget his sister Vanessa who was treated disgracefully. I wonder what she is doing now.

Also, does anyone know if Raffaele has an appeal with the ECHR? He had his trainers taken away at some point during the interrogation so he would certainly be as suspect at that point since he would be in no position to leave of his own free will. He should certainly have had a lawyer too.

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Not that I'm aware of. He has no conviction left standing and it was ruled years ago by Cassation that he was also denied his right to a lawyer during the interrogation and that he was a suspect at the time.
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Old 12th March 2020, 01:23 PM   #1589
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Originally Posted by TomG View Post
Don't forget his sister Vanessa who was treated disgracefully. I wonder what she is doing now.

Also, does anyone know if Raffaele has an appeal with the ECHR? He had his trainers taken away at some point during the interrogation so he would certainly be as suspect at that point since he would be in no position to leave of his own free will. He should certainly have had a lawyer too.

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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Not that I'm aware of. He has no conviction left standing and it was ruled years ago by Cassation that he was also denied his right to a lawyer during the interrogation and that he was a suspect at the time.
I believe some time ago his lawyer stated that he would file an application to the ECHR relating to the denial of his claim before the Italian courts for compensation for wrongful detention.

To date, there has been no Communication from the ECHR to Italy on such an application. Nor has there been any ECHR decision in its database showing the inadmissibility of a Sollecito application. This lack of information may simply be because of the huge backlog of applications before the ECHR, or it may be because the application was never lodged with the ECHR.

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Old 12th March 2020, 08:16 PM   #1590
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Most men who had only known her for 6 weeks would have turned on her in a second and thrown her under the bus. Of course, the PGP have often tried to claim he did, because of what he said during the illegal interrogation. But once he had time to recover, he recanted all of that and stood by her.


Days - which makes your point even more powerfully correct.
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Old 12th March 2020, 09:05 PM   #1591
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
I believe some time ago his lawyer stated that he would file an application to the ECHR relating to the denial of his claim before the Italian courts for compensation for wrongful detention.

To date, there has been no Communication from the ECHR to Italy on such an application. Nor has there been any ECHR decision in its database showing the inadmissibility of a Sollecito application. This lack of information may simply be because of the huge backlog of applications before the ECHR, or it may be because the application was never lodged with the ECHR.
If Sollecito did file a timely application relating to the denial of compensation, the likely claims would include, without excluding other possibilities, violations of Convention Article 6 (right to a fair trial) in relation to the fairness of the domestic court decision denying compensation; Article 6.2 (presumption of innocence) in relation to the statements of the motivation report; and Article 5.5 (compensation for detention in violation of Convention Article 5.1c).

The issue of whether the compensation decision could make use of his statements from the November 5-6 interrogation without a lawyer to deny compensation could be claimed as a violation of Article 6 with 6.1c, although I am not sure of the strength of precedents for that claim. However, if the ECHR finds that the initial detention or that following the first-instance (Massei) court conviction was arbitrary, then compensation would be required under Convention Article 5.5.

The precedents would appear to include this ECHR statement, in a case claiming a violation of Article 5.5: "a conviction which has been imposed by judgment following a breach of substantive provisions of domestic law in the criminal proceedings does not, however, render the detention by virtue of that judgment unlawful unless the conviction was imposed in proceedings conducted manifestly contrary to the provisions of Article 6 and thus amounted to a flagrant denial of justice."

Source: Gruber v. Germany (dec.) 45198/04 20/11/2007

Also, the ECHR has stated in another case claiming a violation of Article 5.5:

"54. ... it is a fundamental principle that no detention which is arbitrary can be compatible with Article 5 § 1 of the Convention (Mooren v. Germany [GC], no. 11364/03, § 77, 9 July 2009).

55. In this connection, mere mistakes are to be distinguished from a flagrant denial of justice undermining not only the fairness of a person’s trial, but also the lawfulness of the ensuing detention. According to the Court’s case-law, detention following a conviction imposed in manifestly unfair proceedings amounting to a flagrant denial of justice is unlawful and automatically implies a breach of Article 5 § 1 of the Convention (see Gruber, cited above; Ilaşcu and Others v. Moldova [GC], no. 48787/99, § 461, ECHR 2004-VII; and Stoichkov v. Bulgaria, no. 9808/02, §§ 51 and 58-59, 24 March 2005)."

Source: Shulgin v. Ukraine 29912/05 08/12/2011

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Old 13th March 2020, 02:28 PM   #1592
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
Days - which makes your point even more powerfully correct.
DOH! Of course. I knew it was six days, not six weeks.
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Old 25th March 2020, 06:21 AM   #1593
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I found this oddly interesting and very well done. For anyone who hasn't seen it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJuuNFpm0V4
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Old 25th March 2020, 10:24 AM   #1594
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Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
I found this oddly interesting and very well done. For anyone who hasn't seen it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJuuNFpm0V4
The promenade of the STOP signs is especially of interest.
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Old 26th March 2020, 07:50 AM   #1595
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Originally Posted by Methos View Post
The page is moving to a new server. It could take a few days.
Is there an update on this? I still can't access the wiki.

Hoots
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Old 26th March 2020, 10:15 AM   #1596
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Originally Posted by TomG View Post
Is there an update on this? I still can't access the wiki.

Hoots
Sorry, I forgot.
The new adress is amandaknoxcase.net
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Old 26th March 2020, 02:56 PM   #1597
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Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
I found this oddly interesting and very well done. For anyone who hasn't seen it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJuuNFpm0V4
It kinda makes me a little happier to see Knox moving on past this fiasco.

Even Vixen seems to have abandoned her crusade so I suppose there is hope for anyone. I like to think so.
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Old 26th March 2020, 04:00 PM   #1598
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Originally Posted by Methos View Post
Sorry, I forgot.
The new adress is amandaknoxcase.net
Many thanks

Hoots
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Old 27th March 2020, 10:35 AM   #1599
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
It kinda makes me a little happier to see Knox moving on past this fiasco.

Even Vixen seems to have abandoned her crusade so I suppose there is hope for anyone. I like to think so.
Today marks 5 years since full exoneration for Raffaele Sollecito (remember him?) and Amanda Knox.

It's only now, amid a global pandemic, that guilter-nutters have completely given up parsing words, quibbling about trivial differences between "acquitted" or "exonerated by the courts".

All the while, while claiming the acquittal wasn't really an acquittal, those nutbars additionally claimed that lurking right around the corner....

.... any day now .....

.... those acquittals will be startlingly reversed; or that Judges Marasca-Bruno and Judge Hellmann will soon, any day now, wind up in prison.

Or that as felons, which they are not, neither Knox nor Sollecito can travel, because Interpol will snap them up.

However, this latter one is probably true in this pandemic.... if they travel they'll be forced to isolate for 14 days. The guilter-nutters will then rise as one and chime, "I told you so!!"
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Old 27th March 2020, 04:36 PM   #1600
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TJMK has been reduced to reporting on the Covid 19 pandemic and, for some reason, the Spanish Flu pandemic. Not a word about the Kercher case in months.
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