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Tags assault incidents , Chicago incidents , Jussie Smollett

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Old 24th February 2020, 12:17 PM   #241
TragicMonkey
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
The Osindaros don't strike me as particularly loyal or sharp. I think they would have rolled on Jussie sooner or later, to bask in the 15 mins. This whole hoax could have flown If the players thought like proper villains. But they acted like...actors.
Well, if these were smart people they'd either not have done this or done it in a way that eluded detection.
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Old 24th February 2020, 12:27 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
If you were his lawyer would you be going to trial at all?
Probably? I'd be going for a pre-trial settlement of some kind, if possible. But if it went to trial...

Everybody deserves a fair trial, even the guilty. Everybody is entitled to go free, if the state cuts corners on due process, or is unable to make their charges stick in court. Even the guilty. The way I see it, one of the main roles of the defense attorney is to ensure that his client, guilty or innocent, gets due process. I think it's a crucial part of the rule of law, that the state not be allowed to railroad a defendant just because they happen to be guilty.

So yeah. If Smollett can pay my fees, and he's not asking me to do anything illegal or unethical, I'd probably go to trial. Not to try to paint him as innocent when he's actually guilty, mind you. But to make sure the government puts in the effort and makes their case against him by the book. I figure, Smollett's paying me to hold the government accountable, and to exploit each and every mistake they make in prosecuting the case. I think that's an ethical approach to lawyering, and an ethical paycheck to cash.
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Old 24th February 2020, 12:29 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Well, if these were smart people they'd either not have done this or done it in a way that eluded detection.
Well, they did stage the event out of view of the nearby security camera...
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Old 24th February 2020, 12:30 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Reading the couple of first pages of this thread (part 1) is quite interesting. The "doubters" sound much more reasonable than their opposition.
My contributions were solid. I even wrote a limerick. This thread was near peak big dog / 16.5 ...
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Old 24th February 2020, 12:40 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
So yeah. If Smollett can pay my fees, and he's not asking me to do anything illegal or unethical, I'd probably go to trial.
I agree with most of what you said, including this part that I quoted. But what do you think of his lawyer's insisting that the Osundairo brothers are guilty of the attack? I have to wonder if they are going to claim that at trial.
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Old 24th February 2020, 12:43 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Probably? I'd be going for a pre-trial settlement of some kind, if possible. But if it went to trial...

Everybody deserves a fair trial, even the guilty. Everybody is entitled to go free, if the state cuts corners on due process, or is unable to make their charges stick in court. Even the guilty. The way I see it, one of the main roles of the defense attorney is to ensure that his client, guilty or innocent, gets due process. I think it's a crucial part of the rule of law, that the state not be allowed to railroad a defendant just because they happen to be guilty.

So yeah. If Smollett can pay my fees, and he's not asking me to do anything illegal or unethical, I'd probably go to trial. Not to try to paint him as innocent when he's actually guilty, mind you. But to make sure the government puts in the effort and makes their case against him by the book. I figure, Smollett's paying me to hold the government accountable, and to exploit each and every mistake they make in prosecuting the case. I think that's an ethical approach to lawyering, and an ethical paycheck to cash.
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Old 24th February 2020, 12:51 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
If I were his lawyer I'd certainly not put him in the witness box. But being an actor I bet he overrules advice and goes in anyway.
They can not put him on the witness stand.

He is under oath on the stand. And up until this point, he hasn't been able to tell the truth about anything. He would end up with a perjury charge.

Any prosecutor would make him look like a fool on the stand.

The problem with narcissists and actors, is they think they can beat the system with what they've been using their whole life, but the prosecutors usually can really corner them. See: Jodi Arias for many examples.
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Old 24th February 2020, 12:57 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
I agree with most of what you said, including this part that I quoted. But what do you think of his lawyer's insisting that the Osundairo brothers are guilty of the attack? I have to wonder if they are going to claim that at trial.
It would seem to be their only hope of an avenue to generating a nano-particle of reasonable doubt in a jury.
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Old 24th February 2020, 12:58 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
They can not put him on the witness stand.
What else do they have? Especially to counter the testimony of the Osundairo brothers. I assume they'll be cooperating with the prosectuion. They still have an active defamation suit against Smollett's lawyers.
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Old 24th February 2020, 12:59 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
It would seem to be their only hope of an avenue to generating a nano-particle of reasonable doubt in a jury.
But does that make it ethical? That's what my question is about.
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Old 24th February 2020, 12:59 PM   #251
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So they'd have to show the Osundairo brothers setting up the attack I'd assume.

Mr. Osundairo, who's credit card did you use to buy those supplies?

Mr. Osundairo, who paid for you to go to Africa shortly after the attack?

Mr. Osundairo, do you think someone you just attacked, would pay for you to go to Africa on a holiday?
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Old 24th February 2020, 01:07 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
But does that make it ethical? That's what my question is about.
Lawyer? Ethics? I'm sorry, I just watched the season premier of Better Call Saul last night, so I was having a hard time parsing the question, my fault.
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Old 24th February 2020, 01:13 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
But does that make it ethical? That's what my question is about.
It's probably the kind of question that only a real lawyer can answer... But would you trust anything a real lawyer had to say?

I think it depends on the exact contours of the prosecution's case, and of this particular rebuttal.

My understanding is that conventional lawyer ethics holds that any technically correct legal gambit is ethical, even if it bears no relationship to the facts, or to their client's obvious guilt.

So if you can show a pattern of facts that supports the idea that the Osundarios did attack Smollett, and you can avoid the pattern of facts that clearly shows that the attack was a hoax, then you can build from this reasonable doubt in the minds of the jurors.

It doesn't necessarily have to be doubt that that Smollett is guilty. It can simply be doubt that the events happened exactly the way the government claims they happened.

If I can show you that the Osundarios really did attack Smollett, and the prosecution can't quite show you that the attack was planned and staged with Smollett's cooperation, then what verdict can you reasonably return?
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Old 24th February 2020, 08:33 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Yes. I agree with Rumpole, never plead guilty!
Maybe he can plead not guilty by reason of being the gay Tupac.
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Old 25th February 2020, 05:22 AM   #255
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
Maybe he can plead not guilty by reason of being the gay Tupac.
From what I've heard Tupac was the gay Tupac.
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Old 25th February 2020, 07:27 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
From what I've heard Tupac was the gay Tupac.
OK... the gayer Tupac.
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Old 26th February 2020, 06:23 AM   #257
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Mr. Smollett in his sunglasses appears in the TV ad for state's attorney Foxx' primary opponent, in a bit regarding special interests.
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Old 18th March 2020, 03:12 PM   #258
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In semi related news, Kim Foxx has been reelected.
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Old 18th March 2020, 03:22 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
In semi related news, Kim Foxx has been reelected.
She wasn't re-elected, she won the Dem primary... which means she almost certainly will be re-elected. Oh well.
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Old 18th March 2020, 04:28 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
She wasn't re-elected, she won the Dem primary... which means she almost certainly will be re-elected. Oh well.
You are correct, my misstatement. Thank you.
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Old 19th March 2020, 09:13 AM   #261
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The Tribune endorsed Donna More, who split the main opposition vote, with Conway and More totaling up to more or less the same % that Foxx received. Perennial losing candidate, ex-alderman Bob Fioretti got 5% from his church, friends and relatives, I guess. Thanks for nothing, idiots.

ETA - looking at the final final numbers, I stand corrected. Foxx did get 50%.
But maybe if they would have coalesced behind Conway sooner, they might have had a change.

Candidate% Vote
Kim Foxx50.2
Bill Conway31.4
Donna More13.5
Bob Fioretti5.0

Also, a republican named Patrick O'Brien won his primary handily in an election held on St. Patrick's Day.

Last edited by carlitos; 19th March 2020 at 09:20 AM.
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Old 26th March 2020, 03:03 PM   #262
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Poor Jussie, he can't just catch a break...

https://madhousemagazine.com/jussie-...oughed-on-him/

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Old 26th March 2020, 03:57 PM   #263
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Okay, that leads me, in my layman's opinion, to think that he must be mentally ill. No sane person could possibly make up a story that's that stupid in the context of his previous lie.
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Old 26th March 2020, 04:15 PM   #264
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Did The Onion go out of business or something?
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Old 26th March 2020, 04:19 PM   #265
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Oops, didn't notice it's a parody. Pretty funny, though.
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Old 26th March 2020, 04:36 PM   #266
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He’s found his place in the sun.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/chicago...uarantine/amp/
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Old 26th March 2020, 04:39 PM   #267
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"Rona"
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Old 26th March 2020, 04:40 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by Athyrio View Post
He’s found his place in the sun.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/chicago...uarantine/amp/
"In an Instagram video posted Wednesday morning, the former “Empire” actor claims he is on day 421 of quarantine."

WTF?

Dodging the media spotlight for over a year while your tragicomic court case makes its way through the system is not the same thing as "quarantine".

And, as with Julian Assange, self-isolation is not the same as serving a court-ordered sentence. If you want to incarcerate yourself while you wait for the government to incarcerate you, that's fine with me, but it doesn't count towards time served.
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Old 26th March 2020, 05:00 PM   #269
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"Quarantine" might be a code word for cocaine.
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