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Tags 2020 elections , Bernie Sanders , presidential candidates

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Old 25th February 2020, 11:38 AM   #361
d4m10n
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Klobuchar on a Bernie ticket? Wouldnít that reassure a lot of people?
It would reassure me, but at the cost of alienating some of his core constituents.
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Old 25th February 2020, 11:39 AM   #362
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I mean better strategy as an individual assessing someone's suitability for the position of president.
What better strategy do you have in mind?
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Old 25th February 2020, 11:45 AM   #363
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I'm getting the impression that much like Trump himself Bernie is less candidate then a reckoning, a punishment put upon us for not being "X" enough. In this case not being progressive enough.
Unlike Trump, Bernie's been in the fire. He's been quietly pushing his agenda through incrementalist votes. Not many times has he sat out a vote because it wasn't exactly as progressive as he wanted. He voted for financial regulations, Obama's healthcare proposal, etc. He got tired of the slow pace and demonization from the radicalized GOP. I sympathize with his attitude.
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Old 25th February 2020, 12:09 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
It would reassure me, but at the cost of alienating some of his core constituents.
What are they going to do, vote for someone else? Stay home? I donít see either thing happening.
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Old 25th February 2020, 12:39 PM   #365
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
What are they going to do, vote for someone else? Stay home?
If their most salient goal was throwing a wrench into the system so we can rebuild from scratch, and if they conclude that running alongside a well-known moderate (and a cop) will compromise that goal, then yes.

I doubt very many people would choose that path, but the difference in 2016 was made by so few voters that they would all fit quite comfortably in an Oklahoma City suburb.

ETA: The actuarial tables aren't looking great for a Sanders second term, so the veep pick becomes more salient than usual.
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Old 25th February 2020, 01:17 PM   #366
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The number of Bernie supporters who would stay home because they didn't like his VP selection would be vanishingly small. It's not really worth mentioning.
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Old 25th February 2020, 01:22 PM   #367
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
What are they going to do, vote for someone else? Stay home? I donít see either thing happening.
Well that is what the evidence says.

Again the "In meaningfully greater number the other candidates, Bernie supporters want him or nobody and have declared their intention to not for the candidate if it isn't Sanders" isn't something we just made up.
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Old 25th February 2020, 01:34 PM   #368
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Well that is what the evidence says.

Again the "In meaningfully greater number the other candidates, Bernie supporters want him or nobody and have declared their intention to not for the candidate if it isn't Sanders" isn't something we just made up.
Yes it is. There's so much posturing about "electability" right now that no one is saying anything that isn't pulled from their or someone else's ass.

Do we have a single Bernie supporter here that wouldn't vote for The Democrat if he wasn't nominated?

Do we have a single notBerner Democrat here that wouldn't vote for Bernie if he were nominated?
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Old 25th February 2020, 01:36 PM   #369
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
Yes it is. There's so much posturing about "electability" right now that no one is saying anything that isn't pulled from their or someone else's ass.

Do we have a single Bernie supporter here that wouldn't vote for The Democrat if he wasn't nominated?

Do we have a single notBerner Democrat here that wouldn't vote for Bernie if he were nominated?
I've stated I wouldn't vote to Bloomberg and I'm a Bernie supporter. This only applies to Bloomberg though. As much as I would be disappointed, I would pull the lever for any of the other candidates.

I will canvas and phonebank for the Bernie in the general. Maybe also for Warren. Not volunteering for any of the others, but they'll get my votes.
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Old 25th February 2020, 01:43 PM   #370
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
He's not, but it is a handy (hypberbolic) shorthand for the contempt I've seen Bernie progressives express for mainstream liberals on a daily basis in my social feeds. As such, it serves to make me skeptical of offers of cooperation, a stance which you have validated here.



Okay, so by "progressives are willing to cooperate with the centrists" what you really mean to say is that centrists need to get on board with progressives or expect to be turfed out.

While I believe you believe this, it's hard for me to understand why you expect this will actually work out in practice. Democrats took the house by flipping nearly twoscore purple districts in 2018, and you expect those novice Congresspersons to (1) win again in 2020 and (2) stop catering to their ideologically mixed constituencies just a few months later after the political revolution assumes power in D.C.
That seems to be the attitude a lot of the Berniebros have.
That they will need centrist and moderate votes in November is something they reject preferring the whole
Bernie will excite millions of people who have never voted before theory, which is just another version of the Lost Tribe Theory of politics.
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Old 25th February 2020, 01:44 PM   #371
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
Yes it is. There's so much posturing about "electability" right now that no one is saying anything that isn't pulled from their or someone else's ass.

Do we have a single Bernie supporter here that wouldn't vote for The Democrat if he wasn't nominated?

Do we have a single notBerner Democrat here that wouldn't vote for Bernie if he were nominated?
The question is what about the swing voters who will decide this election, unless you by into the Lost Tribe nonsense.
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Old 25th February 2020, 01:46 PM   #372
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
If their most salient goal was throwing a wrench into the system so we can rebuild from scratch, and if they conclude that running alongside a well-known moderate (and a cop) will compromise that goal, then yes.

I doubt very many people would choose that path, but the difference in 2016 was made by so few voters that they would all fit quite comfortably in an Oklahoma City suburb.

ETA: The actuarial tables aren't looking great for a Sanders second term, so the veep pick becomes more salient than usual.

Most important VP pick since Roosevelt in 1944, when quite a few Democrats, on the quite, knew FDR health was not good, and there was a very good chance he would not finish his fourth term.
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Old 25th February 2020, 01:50 PM   #373
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The question is what about the swing voters who will decide this election, unless you by into the Lost Tribe nonsense.
It is not about a lost tribe, it is about mobilizing volunteers to get out the vote in key states. Mobilizing the youth can help get voters of all ages off their asses and into voting booths.

I would rather have Warren as president, but I don't think she can mobilize the same number of volunteers to get out into the streets. I haven't voted in the primaries yet, but I'm leaning more towards Bernie every day.
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Old 25th February 2020, 01:51 PM   #374
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It's cynical, but I can see a cromulent strategy here.

The starting assumption is that Democrats are fundamentally motivated to get rid of Trump in 2020. The turnout will be there, and the votes will be there, purely on the strength of widespread anti-Trumpism.

This creates an opportunity for the progressive wing to yank the party leftward. Since the votes are there to get rid of Trump regardless, why waste them on a moderate? 2020 may be a singular convergence of voter turnout and a truly progressive candidate.

All the Democratic voters have to do is not let their fear of Bernie override their hatred of Trump. The "Bernie Bro" strategy of threatening to let all that Trump-hatred go to waste is probably the best chance they have of exploiting this opportunity and getting a truly progressive candidate into office.

The strategy is opposed by people who don't accept the starting assumption. If the votes to oust Trump aren't there, or are going to be scared away by the prospect of President Sanders, then the Bro strat is probably counter-productive.
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Old 25th February 2020, 01:52 PM   #375
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
Yes it is. There's so much posturing about "electability" right now that no one is saying anything that isn't pulled from their or someone else's ass.

Do we have a single Bernie supporter here that wouldn't vote for The Democrat if he wasn't nominated?

Do we have a single notBerner Democrat here that wouldn't vote for Bernie if he were nominated?
Is there a single poster in here that is going to vote Trump?

Well, maybe 1 or 2. Point is, this site is hardly representative of the broader electorate.
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Old 25th February 2020, 01:52 PM   #376
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What better strategy do you have in mind?
Refrain from voting until a relevant study is done to a) evaluate if it matters and B) how to measure it.
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Old 25th February 2020, 01:56 PM   #377
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's cynical, but I can see a cromulent strategy here.

The starting assumption is that Democrats are fundamentally motivated to get rid of Trump in 2020. The turnout will be there, and the votes will be there, purely on the strength of widespread anti-Trumpism.

This creates an opportunity for the progressive wing to yank the party leftward. Since the votes are there to get rid of Trump regardless, why waste them on a moderate? 2020 may be a singular convergence of voter turnout and a truly progressive candidate.

All the Democratic voters have to do is not let their fear of Bernie override their hatred of Trump. The "Bernie Bro" strategy of threatening to let all that Trump-hatred go to waste is probably the best chance they have of exploiting this opportunity and getting a truly progressive candidate into office.

The strategy is opposed by people who don't accept the starting assumption. If the votes to oust Trump aren't there, or are going to be scared away by the prospect of President Sanders, then the Bro strat is probably counter-productive.
There's nothing new about this. The centrist dems have been using the "It's a two party system, and we're better than the Republicans" line against progressives for decades. People who thought the Dems were too conservative either had to vote for it anyway or piss their votes away on third party, occasionally suffering hysterical screeds about "spoilers".

For once, the shoe may be on the other foot, and the centrists are losing their minds.

Keep in mind we're only in this situation because Hillary absolutely blew it in 2016 in probably the most consequential election in a generation. So yeah, people aren't really trusting the conventional wisdom like they used to.

It's also important to maintain perspective. Bernie is generally popular with the voters. He has the highest favorability polling of all the primary candidates. The party managers are the ones throwing a fit.
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Old 25th February 2020, 01:58 PM   #378
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
There's nothing new about this. The centrist dems have been using the "It's a two party system, and we're better than the Republicans" line against progressives for decades. For once, the shoe may be on the other foot, and the centrists are losing their minds.

Keep in mind we're only in this situation because Hillary absolutely blew it in 2016 in probably the most consequential election in a generation. So yeah, people aren't really trusting the conventional wisdom like they used to.
Your hatred of centrists is pretty clear.
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Old 25th February 2020, 02:00 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's cynical, but I can see a cromulent strategy here.

The starting assumption is that Democrats are fundamentally motivated to get rid of Trump in 2020. The turnout will be there, and the votes will be there, purely on the strength of widespread anti-Trumpism.

This creates an opportunity for the progressive wing to yank the party leftward. Since the votes are there to get rid of Trump regardless, why waste them on a moderate? 2020 may be a singular convergence of voter turnout and a truly progressive candidate.

All the Democratic voters have to do is not let their fear of Bernie override their hatred of Trump. The "Bernie Bro" strategy of threatening to let all that Trump-hatred go to waste is probably the best chance they have of exploiting this opportunity and getting a truly progressive candidate into office.

The strategy is opposed by people who don't accept the starting assumption. If the votes to oust Trump aren't there, or are going to be scared away by the prospect of President Sanders, then the Bro strat is probably counter-productive.
Precisely. I'm obviously in the "make hay while we can" faction of yanking the party leftward. Are we ever going to get a bugbear as easy as Trump to run against? Swing for the fences!!
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Old 25th February 2020, 02:00 PM   #380
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Your hatred of centrists is pretty clear.
What is the proper reaction to sheer incompetence that allows for a proto-fascist to seize power?
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Old 25th February 2020, 02:01 PM   #381
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
It is not about a lost tribe, it is about mobilizing volunteers to get out the vote in key states. Mobilizing the youth can help get voters of all ages off their asses and into voting booths.

I would rather have Warren as president, but I don't think she can mobilize the same number of volunteers to get out into the streets. I haven't voted in the primaries yet, but I'm leaning more towards Bernie every day.
Which key states?
It does not matter if Bernie gets 75% of the vote in the Blue States, it's the Purple states that matter.
And, yeah, you are talking yourself in voting for Bernie and joining the cult.;Have a nice 4 more years of Trump.
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Old 25th February 2020, 02:02 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
What is the proper reaction to sheer incompetence that allows for a proto-fascist to seize power?
Have a drink?
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Old 25th February 2020, 02:04 PM   #383
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Which key states?
It does not matter if Bernie gets 75% of the vote in the Blue States, it's the Purple states that matter.
And, yeah, you are talking yourself in voting for Bernie and joining the cult.;Have a nice 4 more years of Trump.
Doesn't matter, we're jumping onto the comet the day before the general election. Someone has to stay behind to maintain the website while the rest of us take the long phenobarbital nap, you interested in the position?
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Old 25th February 2020, 02:21 PM   #384
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Your hatred of centrists is pretty clear.
Don't take criticism as hatred.

They might need to just get out of the way for this round.
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Old 25th February 2020, 02:26 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Have a drink?
Forcibly remove their hands from the steering wheel and tell them to switch seats. A friendly aggressive gesture. We can still be friends, I just think you're doing a ****** job right now.
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Old 25th February 2020, 02:32 PM   #386
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Which key states?
It does not matter if Bernie gets 75% of the vote in the Blue States, it's the Purple states that matter.
And, yeah, you are talking yourself in voting for Bernie and joining the cult.;Have a nice 4 more years of Trump.
Yes, I was only thinking of California, are there any other states?

Who is Michigan anyway . . .
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Old 26th February 2020, 01:45 AM   #387
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Yesterday Chris Matthews apologized to Bernie Sanders on air for comparing his win to the fall of France in WWII.

https://twitter.com/ndrew_lawrence/s...773583874?s=09
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Old 26th February 2020, 06:43 AM   #388
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Old 26th February 2020, 03:43 PM   #389
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Not a chance. To me, Bernie is likely to be another McGovern, who supposedly settled that question 48 years ago. It is at once a significant weakness (and a surprising occasional strength) that the Left declines to learn the lessons of history.

This is innate. We have a name for people who think history has many lessons to teach us: conservatives.
And yet they elected a wanna-be autocrat and bigot for President.
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Old 26th February 2020, 04:24 PM   #390
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
And yet they elected a wanna-be autocrat and bigot for President.
This. THye elected somebody who is betraying everything conservatives claimed to be for.
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Old 26th February 2020, 05:08 PM   #391
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Yes, I was only thinking of California, are there any other states?

Who is Michigan anyway . . .
I urge you to go with your first choice there.
Texas could do a great deal for the Warren campaign. She is doing quite well there according to some recent polling (21% Biden and Sanders, but a strong % 18 for her)
She will gain a lot of traction if she can hang in until the non-Sanders Democrats realize they need someone who can give them a little appeal to swing voters without completely alienating the Sanders people.

Keep Liz alive.

ETClarify: that was supposed to be in response to your post claiming you were considering a Sanders vote.
Jehova's Witnesses have a good ground game too, but I am doubting that they have turned you yet.
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Old 27th February 2020, 05:22 AM   #392
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US man returning from China suspected he had the virus, got tested. Turns out he only had the flu. Also go stuck with a $3,500 bill. That's the price you pay in the US for doing the right thing.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a9358146.html

If the virus gets a serious foothold here in the US, it is going to run absolutely rampant. Our lack of universal health care and sick-leave job protections means that people will have very strong reasons to ignore anti-epidemic measures.

Running a failed state so that a handful of rich people can horde billions. The American Way!
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Old 27th February 2020, 09:01 AM   #393
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
I urge you to go with your first choice there.
Texas could do a great deal for the Warren campaign. She is doing quite well there according to some recent polling (21% Biden and Sanders, but a strong % 18 for her)
She will gain a lot of traction if she can hang in until the non-Sanders Democrats realize they need someone who can give them a little appeal to swing voters without completely alienating the Sanders people.

Keep Liz alive.

ETClarify: that was supposed to be in response to your post claiming you were considering a Sanders vote.
Jehova's Witnesses have a good ground game too, but I am doubting that they have turned you yet.
I was having similar thoughts.
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Old 27th February 2020, 10:49 AM   #394
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
US man returning from China suspected he had the virus, got tested. Turns out he only had the flu. Also go stuck with a $3,500 bill. That's the price you pay in the US for doing the right thing.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a9358146.html

If the virus gets a serious foothold here in the US, it is going to run absolutely rampant. Our lack of universal health care and sick-leave job protections means that people will have very strong reasons to ignore anti-epidemic measures.

Running a failed state so that a handful of rich people can horde billions. The American Way!
I fail to see how that justifies theft.
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Old 27th February 2020, 11:22 AM   #395
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
This. THye elected somebody who is betraying everything conservatives claimed to be for.
The GOP establishment was doing that anyway.
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Old 27th February 2020, 11:26 AM   #396
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The GOP establishment was doing that anyway.
But less cartoonishly supervillain style. They used to exercise a little subtlety. They used to be Littlefinger, now they're Gargamel. It's cringe-inducing.
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Old 27th February 2020, 11:27 AM   #397
Segnosaur
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
I urge you to go with your first choice there.
Texas could do a great deal for the Warren campaign.
A bit of a tangent...

I always found it strange that in the American system, the Democratic nominee can be decided upon through primaries in states that they would have no hope of winning in the general election. So, some candidate wins a bunch of primaries in republican-held states, and they help decide the election. (Same with Republican primaries in Democratically-leaning states.)

I know why its done that way, just seems strange.

In Canada, we usually do direct voting for the party leaders, by anyone who has a party membership. If there are very few members of the political party in a particular province, they won't get as much influence in selecting the leader.
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Old 27th February 2020, 03:24 PM   #398
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Nancy Pelosi says she would be comfortable with Bernie Sanders winning the Democratic presidential nomination

Originally Posted by CNN
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said on Thursday that she will support Sen. Bernie Sanders if he wins the Democratic presidential nomination as the Vermont senator builds momentum heading into a crucial slate of primaries.

The establishment of the Democratic Party has been nervous over the self-described democratic socialist's strong performances in the first three contests in Iowa, New Hampshire and Nevada. With talk of a potential convention fight over the nomination looming, and senior party figures like James Carville and Rahm Emanuel sounding the alarm, Pelosi sought to pour cold water on rumors of dissension within the Capitol Hill wing of the party.
"Whoever our nominee is we will support, with respect for his or her positions," Pelosi said when asked about Sanders during a news conference Thursday.
Pelosi's message was simple: "Unity, unity, unity"
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Old 27th February 2020, 07:12 PM   #399
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Yeah looks like they want to Hillary the election. If they do that I will probably sit out on the presidential vote though I will still vote for ILHAN OMAR.

I do support Nancy Pelosi for president as well. I guess I will still vote democratic even if the eventual nominee is Hillary.

Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
A bit of a tangent...

I always found it strange that in the American system, the Democratic nominee can be decided upon through primaries in states that they would have no hope of winning in the general election. So, some candidate wins a bunch of primaries in republican-held states, and they help decide the election. (Same with Republican primaries in Democratically-leaning states.)

I know why its done that way, just seems strange.



In Canada, we usually do direct voting for the party leaders, by anyone who has a party membership. If there are very few members of the political party in a particular province, they won't get as much influence in selecting the leader.
Actually the Republicans changed the rules to Trump uncontested in the vast majority of states.

It seems that the press is just as incoherent as they were during the last election cycle. They should have an apolitical new source that Americans can go to.
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Last edited by MinnesotaBrant; 27th February 2020 at 07:48 PM.
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Old 29th February 2020, 12:05 PM   #400
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Found out that you can filter out Trump on reddit
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