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Tags 2020 elections , Bernie Sanders , presidential candidates , socialism

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Old 22nd February 2020, 12:58 AM   #241
Cain
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Sanders has said that Fox News treats him more fairly than MSNBC. Well, just wait until the general election...
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Old 22nd February 2020, 02:54 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
In particular racism! If it weren't for the black and brown people, racists would have no reason to be racists!
Oh, I'm sure they would think of something else.

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Old 22nd February 2020, 08:16 AM   #243
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I guess you're right. Haters gonna hate. A true patriot never runs out of people to hate. However, svenskerhaderne disappeared into the general background noise when the Muslims arrived in Denmark.
And it's been years since I last saw one of those "DK" signs replaced by "J" on Jutland cars ...
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Last edited by dann; 22nd February 2020 at 08:19 AM.
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Old 22nd February 2020, 10:12 AM   #244
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It's about time that two of the three moderates do what's best for the country and leave the race.
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Old 22nd February 2020, 11:14 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
For starters, Trump has used up the pool of people willing to get into legal trouble for him.
Has he? He's got the majority of the Senate willing to violate their oaths of office for him.

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
And since he can't run for a third term,
Can't he? I mean, I don't see any way he survives to a 3rd term but if he makes it to reelection for a 2nd one, what's to stop him from appointing Princess Ivanka as his successor? "That's not how the Constitution works" means nothing when a neutered Congress either can't or won't do anything to stop him, and he's got the SCOTUS firmly in his hip pocket.

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I think that it is far more important to win the Senate than the White House in 2020.
BOOM. I want both, but if forced to choose I'd prefer the flipped Senate.
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Old 22nd February 2020, 11:52 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
Can't he? I mean, I don't see any way he survives to a 3rd term but if he makes it to reelection for a 2nd one, what's to stop him from appointing Princess Ivanka as his successor? "That's not how the Constitution works" means nothing when a neutered Congress either can't or won't do anything to stop him, and he's got the SCOTUS firmly in his hip pocket.
Doesn't even need to do that. He's been talking about a third term for ages now, and it's currently a standard part of his campaign speeches that he'll still be president in 2028.

I don't think he has the power to game the system enough to reverse the 22nd Amendment, but recent events should really make the question - if he were to defy the Constitution (again), who would actually stop him?
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Old 22nd February 2020, 11:54 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Bernie's been in government for a few decades now. He seems like a nice guy who's never been able to do much with his ideas. But happens if he wins?
Personally, I think there is good reason why Russia is backing this guy, and it ain't because he's DemSoc.

https://twitter.com/McFaul/status/1230973734397214721
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Old 22nd February 2020, 01:10 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Personally, I think there is good reason why Russia is backing this guy, and it ain't because he's DemSoc.

https://twitter.com/McFaul/status/1230973734397214721
So what's the plan; boost Sanders up and then in the general flood the airwaves with anti-socialist propaganda to make him lose?

I speculated about a month ago here that the Russians might try to help Sanders just to mess with our heads and delegitimize the election results once again. But if it's part of a larger scheme to make Trump look good once again that will be pretty remarkable.

I've always thought they'd be okay with a President Sanders, someone who isn't interventionist and does not have the baggage Hillary Clinton and now Trump has.
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Old 22nd February 2020, 01:14 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
For starters, Trump has used up the pool of people willing to get into legal trouble for him.

He can just pardon some more felons.
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Old 22nd February 2020, 01:36 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
So what's the plan; boost Sanders up and then in the general flood the airwaves with anti-socialist propaganda to make him lose?
At a guess, use his campaign as a cover for agent provocateurs. Democrats are primed for believing anything coming from a "Bernie Bro," so you see how far you can push it.
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Old 22nd February 2020, 02:06 PM   #251
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We'll just USE Bernie to get Medicare for all or something for all. Probably a deductible and a 200 dollar monthly payment. No requirement to buy a plan, that will not pass for decades.

Then we dump him. He looks like a 4 year guy. So does Biden.
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Old 22nd February 2020, 03:42 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
So what's the plan; boost Sanders up and then in the general flood the airwaves with anti-socialist propaganda to make him lose?
Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
At a guess, use his campaign as a cover for agent provocateurs.
At another guess, Putin doesn't want Trump to have a particularly strong opponent so he's backing the one who is furthest along the political spectrum. This helps polarize and weaken the Democratic Party, and ultimately does the same for the entire polity.
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Old 22nd February 2020, 04:12 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I don't think he has the power to game the system enough to reverse the 22nd Amendment, but recent events should really make the question - if he were to defy the Constitution (again), who would actually stop him?

Nobody, apparently: Maddow: Time For Warnings Is Past As Trump Openly Abuses Power (Feb. 22, 2020)
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I AGREE
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 22nd February 2020, 06:00 PM   #254
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lol, the Russians help Trump in 2016, Russians helping the soon to be Dem nominee out helps Trump in 2020.


How convenient.


Wile E coyote couldn't have planned it better
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Old 22nd February 2020, 06:16 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
lol, the Russians help Trump in 2016, Russians helping the soon to be Dem nominee out helps Trump in 2020.


How convenient.


Wile E coyote couldn't have planned it better
Not out of the question.

I doubt they have the resources to carry it out though if that's indeed what's going on. Most of the damage may be psychological instead.
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Old 23rd February 2020, 04:01 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
When why have the terms?
Can I just check, you want to use emotionally charged terms in a debate without defining them?

And you think that's a good thing, yes?
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Old 23rd February 2020, 06:40 AM   #257
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Now two of the three moderates REALLY need to drop out.
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Old 23rd February 2020, 07:13 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
So what's the plan; boost Sanders up and then in the general flood the airwaves with anti-socialist propaganda to make him lose?

I speculated about a month ago here that the Russians might try to help Sanders just to mess with our heads and delegitimize the election results once again. But if it's part of a larger scheme to make Trump look good once again that will be pretty remarkable.

I've always thought they'd be okay with a President Sanders, someone who isn't interventionist and does not have the baggage Hillary Clinton and now Trump has.
I think the simplest explanation is they think Sanders is the most favorable candidate of the democrats for Russia.
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Old 23rd February 2020, 07:24 AM   #259
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Chris "guillotine in central park" Matthews comparing the big NV Sanders win to the Nazi blitz of France in bizarre meltdown.

https://twitter.com/elivalley/status...53034447507461
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Old 23rd February 2020, 08:38 AM   #260
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The Nazis may have won in France in 1940, but if I remember correctly, they didn't win the popular vote ...
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 23rd February 2020, 11:56 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
* the end of all national borders.

Not going to happen even if he wanted it cause Canada and Mexico won't agree.

* the end of ICE and CBP.

A lot of people want ICE gone, they are a solution looking for a problem and causing more issues than they solve. Customs and Border Patrol aren't going anywhere.

* the destruction of Capitalism.

Is not going to happen even under Bernie. Regulated Capitalism might, but then that is a good idea, not a bad one. Unregulated Capitalism is blight that is highly destructive.

* state ownership of large industries

Nationalization isn't going to occur.

* legalized prostitution

Which is a problem how? We've had legalised Prostitution for 17 years now and the country hasn't exploded into fiery shards of lava.

* reperations for slavery

Which is bad how? Slavery was kinda abhorrent, and the US political systems have been working to continue the oppression of blacks ever since Lincoln announced emancipation. Why is paying reparations for that treatment so bad?
That's the thing about Bernie, there's a long list of things that would never happen. None of those items on the list would occur. So what do you think he would actually do?

It's pretty clear that he would immediately reverse some of the most racist, racist, and self destructive policies of Trump. Those are things that are very likely to happen, and would have an immediate positive impact. Beyond that, while he would spend a significant amount of time advocating for things that would never happen, the real question is what would actually happen.

Maybe he would reduce drug price gouging, offer help for small businesses, increase child care assistance, increase infrastructure projects, increase community college access, and do some marginal help for the middle class. Which would be a great economic boom by increasing the available extra cash of the area of the economy that contributes the most to the GDP.

However, the real question is how much time will he waste before he gets to the things that will actually pass. Certainly a lot better than the disaster of Trump, but Warren would have been a much better choice since she is much more realistic.
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Old 23rd February 2020, 12:16 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I think the simplest explanation is they think Sanders is the most favorable candidate of the democrats for Russia.
It's certainly possible as he is fairly anti-interventionist, which always helps them out. But he's not soft on Russia.

This may be a bad look in the primary and general though.
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Old 23rd February 2020, 12:18 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Chris "guillotine in central park" Matthews comparing the big NV Sanders win to the Nazi blitz of France in bizarre meltdown.

https://twitter.com/elivalley/status...53034447507461
Bernie Derangement Syndrome
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Old 23rd February 2020, 12:23 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Bernie Derangement Syndrome
The treatment? A rousing round of Bernie Derangement Syndrome Management.
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Old 23rd February 2020, 12:37 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
If Sanders wins the nomination and you don't vote for him in November, you are helping Trump get re-elected. Then it'll be your fault.
Probably the most important thing for the immediate future of this Country will be finding an effective argument to support Sanders for moderates, Independents, and reasonable Republicans who care more about their Country than blind party loyalty.

The whole 'scary Socialism' thing is not realistic, and most people who are honest know that. We should just state the basic fact that Capitalism is just a form of Socialism. There is no Capitalist system anywhere that would exist without the Socialist police, schools, infrastructure, and regulations that allow it to exist. Socialism is almost never about directly controlling the means of production, but about controlling the required factors in ways that allow the means of production to actually occur.

In other words, we all live under different shades of Socialism. We might as well be honest about that, and find the best mix that works for our society.


Trump is a disaster for this Country. The number of times that he has asked about or threatened to use nuclear weapons, or commit war crimes, or betrayed critical allies, not only puts not only our Country at risk, but the entire world at risk. Trump abhores making informed decisions, and is more than happy to do severe damage to this Country if it suits his whim. He ignores the law, and is certain to get more brazen if he gets a 2nd term.

The world ending in a nuclear fireball because of Trump is far too late for the moderates, Independents, and reasonable Republicans to regret allowing it to happen.

The answer I think will basically be finding a balance between arguing for all of the actual things that Sanders could get passed that would benefit all of Americans, which everyone would support, and not highlighting too much that all of the really large projects that the Sanders supports love, have close to 0% chance of passing.
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Old 23rd February 2020, 12:38 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
At another guess, Putin doesn't want Trump to have a particularly strong opponent so he's backing the one who is furthest along the political spectrum. This helps polarize and weaken the Democratic Party, and ultimately does the same for the entire polity.
If they think that way, it's a miscalculation - on head to head polls with different candidates, Bernie has been having the best chances against Trump, on a consistent basis.

Personally, I think Putin's gang is more intelligent than that - either there's no attempt to boost Sanders, or an attempt to undermine him, posing as if they are trying to boost him.

We'll see, I guess. I wonder what the next week's, or month's Anti-Bernie MSNBC take will be. Most recently it's the same ol' "toxic Bernie Bros" stuff. If Russia were to interfere to ensure a Trump victory, the best way would be to give fuel for the MSNBC attacks against Bernie - especially something that will embitter his supporters against the DNC and other candidates.

That way, if they managed to get it to a brokered convention with Bernie going in with a plurality of delegates but not an an outright majority that would automatically give him the nomination, and knowing that the establishment would likely grant the nomination to someone else..... that would ensure a second term for Trump.

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Old 23rd February 2020, 01:21 PM   #267
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So, we all agree Comrade Bernie is an illegitimate candidate because Putin's meddling has pushed him to the top, or does that only work if the candidate is Republican? (Yes, I know there is no evidence, but Comrade Bernie is on tape praising the USSR, and Democrats have said over and over that Trump is an illegitimate POTUS because of Russian meddling.) Oh, it also makes Comrade Bernie a Russian operative, according to Democrats, who wrote the book on this.
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Old 23rd February 2020, 01:24 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
So, we all agree Comrade Bernie is an illegitimate candidate because Putin's meddling has pushed him to the top, or does that only work if the candidate is Republican? (Yes, I know there is no evidence, but Comrade Bernie is on tape praising the USSR, and Democrats have said over and over that Trump is an illegitimate POTUS because of Russian meddling.) Oh, it also makes Comrade Bernie a Russian operative, according to Democrats, who wrote the book on this.
Obvious baiting is obvious.
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Old 23rd February 2020, 01:31 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
It's about time that two of the three moderates do what's best for the country and leave the race.
I agree but which two?
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Old 23rd February 2020, 01:39 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
...

BOOM. I want both, but if forced to choose I'd prefer the flipped Senate.
And we better be working on that.

McConnell is vulnerable, the Democratic contender polls neck and neck with him.
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Old 23rd February 2020, 01:51 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
So, we all agree Comrade Bernie is an illegitimate candidate because Putin's meddling has pushed him to the top, or does that only work if the candidate is Republican? (Yes, I know there is no evidence, but Comrade Bernie is on tape praising the USSR, and Democrats have said over and over that Trump is an illegitimate POTUS because of Russian meddling.) Oh, it also makes Comrade Bernie a Russian operative, according to Democrats, who wrote the book on this.
Putin's meddling didn't push Sanders to the top. He's been one of the most admired politicians in the country since his 2016 loss.

I wouldn't say Trump is illegitimate either.

It depends on the nature of the help. There's no evidence it's the same. There's a difference between coordination and unknowingly being helped.
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Old 23rd February 2020, 03:11 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
So, we all agree Comrade Bernie is an illegitimate candidate because Putin's meddling has pushed him to the top, or does that only work if the candidate is Republican? (Yes, I know there is no evidence, but Comrade Bernie is on tape praising the USSR, and Democrats have said over and over that Trump is an illegitimate POTUS because of Russian meddling.) Oh, it also makes Comrade Bernie a Russian operative, according to Democrats, who wrote the book on this.
So you agree that Trump is an illegitimate candidate?

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Old 23rd February 2020, 04:58 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Putin's meddling didn't push Sanders to the top. He's been one of the most admired politicians in the country since his 2016 loss.

I wouldn't say Trump is illegitimate either.

It depends on the nature of the help. There's no evidence it's the same. There's a difference between coordination and unknowingly being helped.
Admired?
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Old 23rd February 2020, 05:57 PM   #274
Cabbage
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Admired?


Absolutely! Believe it or not, many people do have the audacity to disagree with you, you know.
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Old 23rd February 2020, 06:08 PM   #275
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Admired?
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Old 23rd February 2020, 06:28 PM   #276
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I agree but which two?
I think it all depends on if Biden wins South Carolina.
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Old 23rd February 2020, 06:31 PM   #277
Hercules56
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No doubt Sanders will not support Ukraine against Russia.

Sanders and his folks believe the USA/NATO staged a coup to oust Yanukovitch and Ukraine is now ruled by "Nazis".
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Old 23rd February 2020, 08:11 PM   #278
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
No doubt Sanders will not support Ukraine against Russia.

Sanders and his folks believe the USA/NATO staged a coup to oust Yanukovitch and Ukraine is now ruled by "Nazis".
source?

I know that Sanders doesn't want to support Ukraine with military aid at all.
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Old 23rd February 2020, 08:24 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I think it all depends on if Biden wins South Carolina.
If Bernie wins SC, that's four in a row; hard to imagine him losing on Super Tuesday.
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Old 23rd February 2020, 09:34 PM   #280
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As someone who is just right of center with a splash of libertarian and did NOT vote for Trump last election for obvious reasons...if its Sanders VS Trump...I doubt ill go with with Sanders.

I would probably vote for Pete
I would have voted for Yang
If Obama could run again I would vote Obama

Just saying
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