ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 21st February 2020, 06:34 PM   #81
PhantomWolf
Penultimate Amazing
 
PhantomWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 19,497
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Problem is in the US a great many of the hospitals are owned by the Health Providers ie the Insurance Companies,so they would still have to bought out.
Why? You can still have privately run hospitals in the system I outlined, you don't have to have them all Government owned, they just get funded for patients in the same way as all the rest.
__________________

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah
I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

PhantomWolf is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2020, 06:38 PM   #82
The Shrike
Philosopher
 
The Shrike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,121
I'm not optimistic about ousting Trump in 2020, simply because this country has let me down time and again. But were I to develop some optimism about next November I might base it on some things like this:

1. That dude is a drug-addled mess. I'm not convinced as others claim that he's sundowning from dementia before our eyes, but something ain't right. There's no way that his impromptu "part 1 physical" was as-billed. My guess is mini-stroke or some kind of heart scare. I'm comfortable with 0.10 probability that he's not on the ballot come November because he's dead or incapacitated.
2. Should he be on the ballot and ostensibly no less healthy than today, I'd give it 0.50 probability that he debates his opponent. Bloomberg and Klobuchar I'm not sure, but Sanders, Warren, & Buttigieg would mop the floor with him on the debate stage. (If Biden is the nominee that's Trump's ticket to successful debates, and that's why I'm not convinced that Biden would perform in November as well as polls predict in matchups today.) Should Trump make some excuse for canceling debates, look for McCain/Romney-type Republicans to just stay home on Election Day.
3. Yes, Obama's economy is (by some select indicators) still going strongly, but there have been some bad things that have happened. There's a fraternity of Trump pals who've been indicted from Mueller investigation and the dude was IMPEACHED. Behind assassinated and indicted in impeachment, an acquittal on impeachment is the 3rd worst thing that can happen to a president. A whole lotta folks who were happy that he wasn't removed from office still know darn well that he's a guilty, lying POS, and their patience for his garbage wears thin.
4. Trump's approval seems to have a ceiling ~44%. It rarely dips below 41% or gets as high as 45%. He's going to have to surpass 45% of the general vote to win.
5. Though folks in Wisconsin be high or something right now, it was a thin margin and a handful of states that got Trump the Electoral College win. Naive voters from 2016 aren't so naive anymore as to what an idiotic assclown our president is. No matter who the Democratic nominee is, there is nothing that person could do over the next few months to be as near uniformly hated as Hillary Clinton.
6. Though I never bet against the Democrats to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, I also have zero confidence in Trump's ability to keep from openly committing new crimes between now and November – plus there's a decent chance his tax records will go public at some point, and I can't see how those could be anything but damaging to him.
7. I'm 0.99 on there being no pee pee tape...
The Shrike is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2020, 07:48 PM   #83
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 23,712
Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
She did win. DESPITE massive GOP election rigging, she got more votes.
*Head desk*

Nobody... cares. Nobody cares that Clinton won at the game that neither her or Trump were playing.

I am so sick of hearing about Clinton winning the popular vote.
__________________
- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset
- "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal
- "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2020, 09:10 PM   #84
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 11,407
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
*Head desk*

Nobody... cares. Nobody cares that Clinton won at the game that neither her or Trump were playing.

I am so sick of hearing about Clinton winning the popular vote.
I care a great deal. It gives me comfort to know the majority of 2016 voters weren't stupid.
Stacyhs is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2020, 09:14 PM   #85
Venom
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 4,066
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I care a great deal. It gives me comfort to know the majority of 2016 voters weren't stupid.
I have faith we won't elect the same idiot twice.

fool me, you can't get fooled again!
Venom is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2020, 09:16 PM   #86
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 11,415
Originally Posted by Venom View Post
I have faith we won't elect the same idiot twice.

fool me, you can't get fooled again!
Con me, and I'll bend backwards to deny you ever conned me, including letting you con me again.
__________________
ETTD
Everything Trump Touches Dies
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2020, 10:52 PM   #87
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 25,917
Originally Posted by Venom View Post
I have faith we won't elect the same idiot twice.



fool me, you can't get fooled again!
Richard M Nixon.
Ronald W Reagan.
George W Bush.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2020, 11:04 PM   #88
Meadmaker
Penultimate Amazing
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 20,656
Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
Just so long as you get your 30 pieces of silver, eh Mead?
I really, really, hate it when people mistake my own beliefs for the people I am talking about.


I'm voting for whatever Democrat is nominated to run against Trump. I don't want it to be Bernie or Bloomberg, but I will vote for them if they are the nominee.


Is it so inconceivable that when I say, "You won't convince many people like that...…" I am not saying, "You're wrong." When I say, "Most Americans want..." I am not saying "I want".



Well, I've been talking on the internet long enough that I know there are tons of people who can't tell the difference, but it's still irritating.
Meadmaker is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2020, 11:14 PM   #89
llwyd
Muse
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 597
At the moment, I think he is the favourite - despite of pretty bad favourability levels. The economy is doing fine, there is a well oiled propaganda machine marching in lockstep headed by the Fox News, various voter suppression schemes, Russian efforts fuelling the social media etc. etc. - and most of all, a radicalized base with a blind devotion which is simply indifferent to "fake news" (or facts as they are called elsewhere). He will pretty easily get 47-50% share once the Democratic candidate is a thoroughly smeared as only the Republicans know how.

So, maybe a 60-40 favourite at the moment. Any other Republican as bad but with a better judgement would be in even much better position.
llwyd is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2020, 11:15 PM   #90
llwyd
Muse
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 597
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I really, really, hate it when people mistake my own beliefs for the people I am talking about.
Just purely apropos - have you ever heard about the concept of "concern trolling"?
llwyd is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2020, 11:32 PM   #91
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 11,407
Originally Posted by Venom View Post
I have faith we won't elect the same idiot twice.

fool me, you can't get fooled again!
Have you watched his rallies?
Stacyhs is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2020, 11:33 PM   #92
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 11,407
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I really, really, hate it when people mistake my own beliefs for the people I am talking about.


I'm voting for whatever Democrat is nominated to run against Trump. I don't want it to be Bernie or Bloomberg, but I will vote for them if they are the nominee.


Is it so inconceivable that when I say, "You won't convince many people like that...…" I am not saying, "You're wrong." When I say, "Most Americans want..." I am not saying "I want".



Well, I've been talking on the internet long enough that I know there are tons of people who can't tell the difference, but it's still irritating.
Stacyhs is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2020, 12:04 AM   #93
sir drinks-a-lot
Illuminator
 
sir drinks-a-lot's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Cole Valley, CA
Posts: 3,867
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Why trump will be reelected

1. The Democratic Party. Around 90 years ago Will Rodgers said “I'm not a member of any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” Still true.
2. The Republican Party. Absolutely monolithic in its devotion to Trump.
3. Socialism. The current front-runner is a self described socialist. But it's not just Bernie, the R's will use that scare word for any candidate. And a vast number of Americans don't understand what it is. As in the first post of this thread.
4. Toxic Bernie-Bro culture. There are not that many of the toxic ones, but they are very vocal.
5. Fox News. They have no shame and will lie about anything to help the Republican party.
6. Cheating. In addition to the ongoing Republican efforts to disenfranchise likely Democratic voters, the Russians are already busy, and Trump is already working hard to cover it up.
7. Impeachment. I think it was a dumb idea. Trump will run on how exonerated he is.
8. Prejudice. Against immigrants, brown people, women, and LGBT people. A lot more folks harbor subtle prejudices than you probably think.
9. Gullibility. Trump fans willingly believe anything he says; anything they here on Fox News or Breitbart. But it's not the fans that are the problem; it's the folks in the middle who are susceptible to the lies when they get repeated often enough.
The USA is totally screwed.
What a strange and skewed worldview.

But I hope you're right about the election results.
__________________
I drink to the general joy o' th' whole table. --William Shakespeare
sir drinks-a-lot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2020, 12:30 AM   #94
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 15,132
Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Why? You can still have privately run hospitals in the system I outlined, you don't have to have them all Government owned, they just get funded for patients in the same way as all the rest.
True, you can have privately owned hospitals in a publicly funded system.

Does bring up a few issues though:

- Does BernieCare allow for that? Its all well and good to come up with ur own ideas about what health care should be like, but if the politicians are pushing something else, our own plans are irrelevant

- Who decides what the fees are? Does the government force all hospitals to accept the same payment? Or do they offer certain fees and the hospital can take it or leave it? And if the fees offered are less than the cost to run the hospital (or are less profitable than other uses of the real estate), are you prepared to see a reduction in hospital beds (with the possibility of wait lists)?
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2020, 12:45 AM   #95
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 28,136
Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
4. Trump's approval seems to have a ceiling ~44%. It rarely dips below 41% or gets as high as 45%. He's going to have to surpass 45% of the general vote to win.
Not necessarily.

If enough people vote third party, 45% could be plenty.

If the electoral college works as intended, President Trump could lose the popular vote by a huge margin but still get enough electoral college votes to get the presidency.

People who don't approve of President Trump may still vote for him if the Democratic Party candidate is (or is made to look) sufficiently unappealing.

He may have 45% approval but that may translate into more than 45% of the vote if people who disapprove of him are unable to, or don't bother to, vote.
The Don is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2020, 05:15 AM   #96
Distracted1
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 3,725
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Not necessarily.

If enough people vote third party, 45% could be plenty.

If the electoral college works as intended, President Trump could lose the popular vote by a huge margin but still get enough electoral college votes to get the presidency.

People who don't approve of President Trump may still vote for him if the Democratic Party candidate is (or is made to look) sufficiently unappealing.

He may have 45% approval but that may translate into more than 45% of the vote if people who disapprove of him are unable to, or don't bother to, vote.
I have seen demonstrations of hypothetical electoral college results that show a candidate can win the White House in a two-party race with as little as %22 of the vote.

The EC is a farce.
__________________
The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.
Distracted1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2020, 10:54 AM   #97
The Shrike
Philosopher
 
The Shrike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,121
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
If enough people vote third party, 45% could be plenty.
Of course, that's how math works. Right now at least it doesn't look like we'll have a 3rd party spoiler this go round.

I am stunned sometimes how dense the anti-Trump moneyed classes are in this country. If Bloomberg wants to defeat Trump, he should drop out of the Democratic race and pour all his money into somebody like Romney running as a conservative Independent. The conservatives who'd never vote for a Democrat would have someone pro-Life for whom to cast their vote. It might pull some "centrist" Democrats that way, but I'd imagine rank and file Republicans appalled by Trumpism would leave like rats from a sinking ship.
The Shrike is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2020, 11:00 AM   #98
Venom
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 4,066
Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
Of course, that's how math works. Right now at least it doesn't look like we'll have a 3rd party spoiler this go round.

I am stunned sometimes how dense the anti-Trump moneyed classes are in this country. If Bloomberg wants to defeat Trump, he should drop out of the Democratic race and pour all his money into somebody like Romney running as a conservative Independent. The conservatives who'd never vote for a Democrat would have someone pro-Life for whom to cast their vote. It might pull some "centrist" Democrats that way, but I'd imagine rank and file Republicans appalled by Trumpism would leave like rats from a sinking ship.
My thoughts as well.

Perhaps throw in ads about Trump's gun control measures and stuff he's said on air.
Venom is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2020, 01:32 PM   #99
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Alexandria, VA Home to the Deep State.
Posts: 19,690
Forty-six percent of voter say they will vote for the American candidate no matter who it is. Thirty-five percent of voters say they will betray their country and vote Trump. About 17 percent say they will wait and see who the Dems pick as a candidate before they decide if they will betray their country. That's not a great place for Trump to be.
__________________
A MAGA hat = a Swastika arm band. A vote for Trump is a vote for treason.

Last edited by Craig4; 22nd February 2020 at 01:40 PM.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2020, 01:35 PM   #100
dann
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 9,772
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
To phrase it differently, "it's the economy, stupid."

Trump's planned reduction of the national debt (The Balance, Feb. 6, 2020)
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2020, 01:38 PM   #101
dann
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 9,772
Originally Posted by calebprime View Post
Possible that corona virus will wreck enough of world and U.S. economy prior to election that Trump has to try to deal with it and looks helpless?

But he's fighting the virus by accelerating global warming!
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2020, 01:47 PM   #102
dann
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 9,772
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
4. Toxic Bernie-Bro culture. There are not that many of the toxic ones, but they are very vocal.

They are?! It appears to be a narrative invented by MSNBC and the NYT:
Nina Turner ANNIHILATES MSNBC's Bernie Bro Narrative
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2020, 01:53 PM   #103
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 42,740
"Annihilates." Is this like when Tucker Carlson "destroys" someone, but when you watch the video all you see is a posturing jackass?
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2020, 02:02 PM   #104
Tero
Graduate Poster
 
Tero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North American prairie
Posts: 1,813
He is not. Polling is of some use. He and the governor conned pepole in Wisconin to shovel money at Foxconn. And the state went Democrat for governor. Trump has lost Michigan as well, possibly Iowa. He does not have the battleground states to win the election with 200 000 people in the right places. Sure he gets the reds states in the middle and with a lot of empty state. Every Republican gets those.
Tero is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2020, 02:21 PM   #105
Mumbles
Philosopher
 
Mumbles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 7,497
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Richard M Nixon.
Ronald W Reagan.
George W Bush.
To be fair, Nixon did a great many good things - he'd be drummed out of the modern GOP.

Reagan, at least, managed to use his acting chops to inspire most people (although he was a segregationist, this didn't seem to matter much to most voters)

And GWB had united the country after 9/11 and launched a fully justified war in Afghanistan as well as a falsely justified war in Iraq. I still think he wasn't *supposed* to have lost this one, as People at the time were still crowing about how great both had gone/were going.

Dolt 45? Let's face it, if there's any sort of major problem, he'll be laughably unequipped to handle it, because he's spent his time driving experts out, often in favor of big gaping holes. Terrorist attack? expect a ton of FBI/CIA leaks about how his idiot sycophants were too busy kissing up to him to take any preventative action. Pandemic? With Noravirus we're already seeing that they've dismantled the bureaucracy responsible for coordinating a response. Financial crisis? Forget it, the entire thing will sink like a ball of lead.

(This is one issue I have yet to hear much about from the nominees - how do they intend to restore government into something fully functioning? And congress should, ideally, be considering what laws to put in place to reform the courts and the executive branch. I'd say that the GOP rank and file should think about what it will take to reform the GOP into something other than a radical protofascist movement, but it's obvious that they're too terrified by the idea of christian white men not running anything.)
Mumbles is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2020, 04:25 PM   #106
dann
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 9,772
Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Dolt 45? Let's face it, if there's any sort of major problem, he'll be laughably unequipped to handle it, because he's spent his time driving experts out, often in favor of big gaping holes. (...) Pandemic? With Noravirus we're already seeing that they've dismantled the bureaucracy responsible for coordinating a response.

Don't think of Covid-19 as a threat! Think of it as the solution!

Quote:
COVID-19 Fatality Rate by AGE:
70-79 years old: 8.0%
COVID-19 Fatality Rate by SEX:
Male: 2.8%
Age, Sex, Existing Conditions of COVID-19 Cases and Deaths (Worldometers, Feb. 22, 2020)
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2020, 04:30 PM   #107
Roger Ramjets
Illuminator
 
Roger Ramjets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,340
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
So it might be the appeal to arms after all.
Yes!


Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
The polls showed Clinton winning, too.
In an honest election.


Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
If America votes for Trump again you will just have to wait for more of the stupid, selfish white boomers to die.
Why wait for them to die?


Originally Posted by Distracted1
I have seen demonstrations of hypothetical electoral college results that show a candidate can win the White House in a two-party race with as little as 22% of the vote.
Hmm, perhaps I should rethink my strategy. Trump winning with only 22% of the popular vote would be awesome! Just what we need to kick start the coming civil war.
__________________
We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good.
Roger Ramjets is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2020, 04:41 PM   #108
Suddenly
No Punting
 
Suddenly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Montani Semper Liberi
Posts: 3,534
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
"Annihilates." Is this like when Tucker Carlson "destroys" someone, but when you watch the video all you see is a posturing jackass?
Dramatic SYNONYMS for VICTORY and CAPITAL LETTERS will make your view count DECIMATE other youtubers.
Suddenly is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2020, 03:03 AM   #109
dann
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 9,772
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
"Annihilates." Is this like when Tucker Carlson "destroys" someone, but when you watch the video all you see is a posturing jackass?

Nina Turner really gets to you, doesn't she?!

Nina Turner Rips Moderate Call For Practicality: America Deserves Better | MSNBC
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

Right on, sister!


ETA: When Nina Turner criticizes the (in this context) hypocritical idea of practicality, I am reminded of one of my favourite Oscar Wilde quotations:

Quote:
It will, of course, be said that such a scheme as is set forth here is quite unpractical, and goes against human nature. This is perfectly true. It is unpractical, and it goes against human nature. This is why it is worth carrying out, and that is why one proposes it. For what is a practical scheme? A practical scheme is either a scheme that is already in existence, or a scheme that could be carried out under existing conditions. But it is exactly the existing conditions that one objects to; and any scheme that could accept these conditions is wrong and foolish. The conditions will be done away with, and human nature will change.
The Soul of Man under Socialism (1891) (marxists.org)
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 23rd February 2020 at 03:22 AM.
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2020, 05:23 AM   #110
dann
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 9,772
Even staunch reactionaries no longer endorse Trump; prefer actual billionaire:

Clint Eastwood dropper Trump-støtte og peger på Bloomberg (TV2, Feb. 23, 2020)
Clint Eastwood: electing Bloomberg would make my day (Guardian, Feb. 22, 2020)
Actor Clint Eastwood shows support for Michael Bloomberg and criticizes Trump's behavior (CNN, Feb. 22, 2020)

I look forward to his next speech when he'll be talking to an orange hairpiece representing Trump.
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2020, 07:18 AM   #111
Delvo
الشيطان الأبيض
 
Delvo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: North Tonawanda, NY
Posts: 8,393
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Why trump will be reelected

1. The Democratic Party. Around 90 years ago Will Rodgers said “I'm not a member of any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” Still true.
2. The Republican Party. Absolutely monolithic in its devotion to Trump.
3. Socialism. The current front-runner is a self described socialist. But it's not just Bernie, the R's will use that scare word for any candidate. And a vast number of Americans don't understand what it is. As in the first post of this thread.
4. Toxic Bernie-Bro culture. There are not that many of the toxic ones, but they are very vocal.
5. Fox News. They have no shame and will lie about anything to help the Republican party.
6. Cheating. In addition to the ongoing Republican efforts to disenfranchise likely Democratic voters, the Russians are already busy, and Trump is already working hard to cover it up.
7. Impeachment. I think it was a dumb idea. Trump will run on how exonerated he is.
8. Prejudice. Against immigrants, brown people, women, and LGBT people. A lot more folks harbor subtle prejudices than you probably think.
9. Gullibility. Trump fans willingly believe anything he says; anything they here on Fox News or Breitbart. But it's not the fans that are the problem; it's the folks in the middle who are susceptible to the lies when they get repeated often enough.
The USA is totally screwed.
  1. Most Democrats have been dedicated to the cause of finding ways to lose, but Bernie (along with a handful of others) is not most Democrats. They've actually been fighting instead of just rolling over. We've literally never seen in most currently living people's lifetimes what might result from Democrats finally giving the Republicans any resistance at all, except for a little taste in 2018, which went pretty well.
  2. Core party members are, but there aren't enough of those to dictate the outcome. A bunch of those who voted Republican last time are not so dedicated. The subcategory "those who voted for Obama twice" alone (nevermind how many others can be and have been swayed but just weren't on Obama at least once) is 9 million: a perfect example of why left/right or Republican/Democrat is the wrong division to make to figure out what's really happening.
  3. That word's just not a big deal at all. Maybe it once was, but not anymore.
  4. It's a myth. (And the lying crybabies who peddle it are showing their desperation by doing so; they wouldn't need to resort to something so utterly pathetic if they had something real to use instead.)
  5. See #2.
  6. A potential real factor, but still a pretty small one in the big picture.
  7. Impeachment itself wasn't a bad idea. Doing impeachment the wrong way was. Pelosi's insistence on doing everything she could to make it as unimpeachy for him as possible and helping him get away with everything was... Pelosian... again. But it didn't change the election. To do that, it would need to have changed a bunch of people's minds about Trump overall, not just get written into the sermons of people who were already in the cult anyway. There are Democrats whom that whole thing reflects badly on, but Bernie is not one of those, and there's nobody mistaking him for Just Another Democrat.
  8. See #2. (Also, this not only won't be important next time but also wasn't last time. Those who obssessivley get themselves stuck in myths of the past doom themselves to failure to understand the present & future.)
  9. See #2. Most people saw through it last time, and we're set up for even more to see through it this time.
Really, the biggest threat to Bernie right now is Democrat hypocrisy: they preach & blather on & on about "unity" when it's one of their kind of Democrat, but demonstrate how much they really actually care about "unity" when it's not.

Last edited by Delvo; 23rd February 2020 at 07:20 AM.
Delvo is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2020, 07:24 AM   #112
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 22,688
Originally Posted by dann View Post
Even staunch reactionaries no longer endorse Trump; prefer actual billionaire:

Clint Eastwood dropper Trump-støtte og peger på Bloomberg (TV2, Feb. 23, 2020)
Clint Eastwood: electing Bloomberg would make my day (Guardian, Feb. 22, 2020)
Actor Clint Eastwood shows support for Michael Bloomberg and criticizes Trump's behavior (CNN, Feb. 22, 2020)

I look forward to his next speech when he'll be talking to an orange hairpiece representing Trump.
Tells you everything you should know about Bloomberg.
Sideroxylon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2020, 07:46 AM   #113
Delvo
الشيطان الأبيض
 
Delvo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: North Tonawanda, NY
Posts: 8,393
Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
The recent Quinnepac poll shows the entire Democratic field beating Trump in an honest election.
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
The polls showed Clinton winning, too.
No, they didn't. The polls showed what might happen, some commentators were pointing it out all along, and Clinton and a bunch of her followers simply neglected reality.

Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
even if Trump does actually become the President again, then I expect that his problems with Congress will be even worse than they already are.
That doesn't matter anymore. When you get to dictate clearly illegal, anti-Constitutional, evil things that a President just doesn't have the ability to order, and your dictations get obeyed anyway regardless of the law and nothing happens to anybody over it, you're not presiding over anything; you're dictating, being somebody who dictates. And in a system that has one of those around (maybe we could coin some kind of new term for "somebody who dictates rather than presides"), the legislature makes no difference.
Delvo is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2020, 08:31 AM   #114
dann
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 9,772
Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Tells you everything you should know about Bloomberg.

It might persuade some old-school Republicans to shift to a candidate that they find less repulsive than Trump, but I can't imagine that it will make any Democrats shift from another candidate to Bloomberg.
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2020, 09:23 AM   #115
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Alexandria, VA Home to the Deep State.
Posts: 19,690
The other good news for pro American voters is that Trump supporters skew older. Some of them either have died or will die before November. Newly older voters don't seem to be replacing the dead pro Trump voters.
__________________
A MAGA hat = a Swastika arm band. A vote for Trump is a vote for treason.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2020, 09:38 AM   #116
Suddenly
No Punting
 
Suddenly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Montani Semper Liberi
Posts: 3,534
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
The other good news for pro American voters is that Trump supporters skew older. Some of them either have died or will die before November. Newly older voters don't seem to be replacing the dead pro Trump voters.

In an ironic twist, it is Medicare keeping a lot of them alive so they can vote against socialized medicine.
Suddenly is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2020, 01:07 PM   #117
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 11,407
Originally Posted by Suddenly View Post
In an ironic twist, it is Medicare keeping a lot of them alive so they can vote against socialized medicine.
People often vote against their own best interests. My husband and I are both 60+ and absolutely despise the Orange Clown in the WH.
Stacyhs is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th February 2020, 05:44 AM   #118
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 88,910
Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
How many voters in MI PA and WI do those groups represent?
And that's the problem that some on the left don't get: Trump's presidency so far hasn't really affected the lives of the vast majority of Americans. If you look at what he does, it's atrocious, but as long as it doesn't impact working families' budgets and lives, it doesn't look bad right now.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th February 2020, 05:51 AM   #119
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 88,910
Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Dems will basically fall in line behind almost whoever's nominated
Will they?
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th February 2020, 07:03 AM   #120
Suddenly
No Punting
 
Suddenly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Montani Semper Liberi
Posts: 3,534
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
And that's the problem that some on the left don't get: Trump's presidency so far hasn't really affected the lives of the vast majority of Americans. If you look at what he does, it's atrocious, but as long as it doesn't impact working families' budgets and lives, it doesn't look bad right now.
Except for healthcare. All it takes is to know someone who has trouble getting insulin or who had to enter into mortal combat with their insurance while dealing with a dire medical issue to become somewhat radicalized as to that issue.

There is a reason this is Sanders' primary issue. Climate change is more important, but the healthcare issue reaches into places where the left usually doesn't reach.

It has potential to be the Democratic answer to what the GOP has been doing with abortion. The single issue that could get people to vote Democrat even though they aren't all that thrilled about the rest of the platform. Magnify the heck out of the horror stories and offer obvious solutions. Worry about technical details once in office.
Suddenly is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:43 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.