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Tags 2020 elections , democratic party , presidential candidates

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Old 12th March 2020, 08:14 PM   #321
The_Animus
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Overton Window much?
Biden's platform is incredibly progressive, just not as progressive as Sanders'.
It's weird to claim that Biden just wants to return to the Status Quo Ante. And it seems that Biden is moving to the left to woo Sanders' supporters for the general election.
And as soon as he wins he'll do what all politicians like that do. Drop the act and pursue what they intended to all along. I actually hate that aspect of politics. I'd much rather they all ran on what they actually believe and therefore what they will actually fight for. At least that way you know what you're getting and can vote accordingly.
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Old 12th March 2020, 08:43 PM   #322
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Bernie said something reported yesterday that hints of a concession IMO - that he would be talking to people and debating Biden and finding out "who is best positioned" to take on Trump and/or move policy in a more progressive direction. That's a paraphrase. I don't really know much about his personality, if he is likely to concede that Biden might be that person. I can see it not being 100 percent clear at this point. Just as I was saying hmm, maybe that's
Bernie, several candidates dropped out and threw in with Biden. These people probably know each other pretty well and maybe they know more than I do which of their colleagues has a better shot.
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Old 12th March 2020, 08:58 PM   #323
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I don't think Biden is the same as Trump. I just think his proposals, even if they are successful, are not enough to meet the moment.

A Biden administration is much preferable than a Trump administration, but it's still one that is tiptoeing from disaster. This country needs radical reform, and Joe isn't going to get it.
The Return to Normal™ strategy raises the spectre of recreating the conditions that lead to Trump. Consider the possibility that, while I understand many have been hurt by his Presidency, we got lucky that the tyrant catapulted into power is a buffoon.

I even wielded the Marius-Sulla-Pompey/Crassus-Caesar analogy several times early in Trump's administration. Trump isn't the scariest part about Trump, it's the crafty opportunist watching what Trump could be getting away with if he weren't getting in his own way.

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Old 12th March 2020, 09:57 PM   #324
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
The Return to Normal™ strategy raises the spectre of recreating the conditions that lead to Trump. Consider the possibility that, while I understand many have been hurt by his Presidency, we got lucky that the tyrant catapulted into power is a buffoon.

I even wielded the Marius-Sulla-Pompey/Crassus-Caesar analogy several times early in Trump's administration. Trump isn't the scariest part about Trump, it's the crafty opportunist watching what Trump could be getting away with if he weren't getting in his own way.
Nonsense.

First, it'll take 4 years for Biden to clean up the mess. Then we can elect someone else.

But second, there was no mess that led to Trump. Unless you are referring to bigotry and a constant message of how bad things were when they weren't.

Remember McConnell making it clear he planned to sabotage everything Obama did? And if his goal was to stack the SCOTUS with biased judges, what does that say about said 'conditions that led to Trump'? Are you including legal abortions in said conditions? Demanding religion get out of school science classes? What are these conditions you speak of?
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Old 12th March 2020, 11:10 PM   #325
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I don't think Biden is the same as Trump. I just think his proposals, even if they are successful, are not enough to meet the moment.

A Biden administration is much preferable than a Trump administration, but it's still one that is tiptoeing from disaster. This country needs radical reform, and Joe isn't going to get it.
...I hate to break it to you, but, given Sanders, the chance of radical reform in a Sanders Presidency would be unfortunately very, very low. Warren, given her overwhelming competence and serious networking, preparation, and planning, would have had a fighting chance (and is the only candidate that was in the field that did, really) - but even then, not even remotely a guarantee.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Nonsense.

First, it'll take 4 years for Biden to clean up the mess. Then we can elect someone else.

But second, there was no mess that led to Trump. Unless you are referring to bigotry and a constant message of how bad things were when they weren't.
Err... there was distinctly more than that. The GOP's lies and political nonsense is certainly a major factor and deserves significant emphasis, but it's hardly all there was - especially in places that tended to be controlled by Republicans. Take the coal industry as a rather obvious example, though hardly the only one. Its death has been slow and painful, but ever quickening... and that rather clearly causes problems in areas that are largely dependent on it. Denying the many, many problems isn't even remotely beneficial, much as hammering on the Republicans for usually making the actual problems hit much harder than they would have under actually responsible management of the situation might be useful. Much of the GOP's MO, really, is creating problems for the average person by overwhelming trying to put the power into a few (rich, though frequently not moral or competent) hands and then working to profit off of the inevitable problems that directly and indirectly result, one way or another.
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Old 13th March 2020, 04:13 AM   #326
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
...I hate to break it to you, but, given Sanders, the chance of radical reform in a Sanders Presidency would be unfortunately very, very low. Warren, given her overwhelming competence and serious networking, preparation, and planning, would have had a fighting chance (and is the only candidate that was in the field that did, really) - but even then, not even remotely a guarantee.
Both Sanders or Biden are walking into the same partisan gridlock. The difference is how they will respond to it.

Biden's messaging about bipartisanship and good-faith negotiation shows that he refuses to deal with the situation as it is. McConnell is going to play him like a fiddle.

I don't expect Sanders to walk into office and wave a magic wand to make Medicare For All happen. I do think he would be able to radically reframe the discussion of the issue and drag the party back after years of rightward drift. We need a president that is going to draw a sharp contrast, not just another centrist that is just a more polite, less bigoted version of Republicans.
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Old 13th March 2020, 08:27 AM   #327
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Nonsense.



First, it'll take 4 years for Biden to clean up the mess. Then we can elect someone else.



But second, there was no mess that led to Trump. Unless you are referring to bigotry and a constant message of how bad things were when they weren't.



Remember McConnell making it clear he planned to sabotage everything Obama did? And if his goal was to stack the SCOTUS with biased judges, what does that say about said 'conditions that led to Trump'? Are you including legal abortions in said conditions? Demanding religion get out of school science classes? What are these conditions you speak of?
I'm talking about 40 years of economic anxiety being experienced by most of us.

Congratulations on being insulated from it sufficiently such that aspects of the "culture war" apparently strikes you as the notable examples of hardships in our history.

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Old 13th March 2020, 09:04 AM   #328
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
Really? You want a second term for Trump? If true, then I have badly assessed your political views.
I'm not particularly anxious or enthusiastic about it, if that's what you mean. If we get Sanders or Biden instead, that's okay too.
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Old 13th March 2020, 09:07 AM   #329
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
Of course it is. Sheeeeeesh. If the president wants to enact his agenda - as all do - then he's got to jawbone, entreat, and bargain with the Congress to get done what he can. After all, the president is the #1 politician.
Having an agenda that extends beyond the execution of the President's duties isn't actually part of the President's job. Of course he does have one. And of course he hopes the Legislature will enact it, but having that agenda and getting the legislature to enact it isn't part of the job. The job is actually for the president to enact the legislature's agenda.
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Old 13th March 2020, 09:13 AM   #330
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Both Sanders or Biden are walking into the same partisan gridlock. The difference is how they will respond to it.

Biden's messaging about bipartisanship and good-faith negotiation shows that he refuses to deal with the situation as it is. McConnell is going to play him like a fiddle.
I think Biden has been around long enough and understands the political climate that he won't be "Played like a fiddle". He has seen how McConnell treated Obama.
Quote:
I don't expect Sanders to walk into office and wave a magic wand to make Medicare For All happen. I do think he would be able to radically reframe the discussion of the issue
Oh, I get it...

You don't think Bernie has a "Magic wand", you think he just has magic powers. I guess that makes a big difference.

He's not a Harry Potter wizard, "Accio BernieCare". He's a Jedi. "These are not the policies you are looking for".
Quote:
and drag the party back after years of rightward drift.
People often make the claim that the Democrats have had a "rightward drift", but is it really true? Well, lets see:

Clinton once signed the "defense of Marriage act". Now, gay marriage is something that widely accepted within the Democratic party. The party also seems to have accepted loosening restrictions on marijuana.

What about the economy? Well, again, Clinton had relaxed many of the financial regulations (which contributed to the crash of 2008). But Obama had restored many of those regulations, and most of the Democratic candidates want even stricter enforcement. And pretty much every Democrat wants an increase in the minimum wage.

Perhaps free trade is one area where many democrats have "drifted to the right", but I think evidence has shown that trade liberalization is usually beneficial to the economy.
Quote:
We need a president that is going to draw a sharp contrast, not just another centrist that is just a more polite, less bigoted version of Republicans.
And there we go again.

Why should anyone give any attention to what you say if you consider a Democrat who wants to expand access to public health care, protect abortion rights and increase taxes on the wealthy as a "version of the republicans" just because they don't particularly like Sander's particular policies?

Again, is your understanding of the political landscape so skewed that you can't actually identify the differences between non-Sanders democrats and Republicans?
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Old 13th March 2020, 09:13 AM   #331
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
Would the number of billions of dollars Trump has taken from the military without congressional approval to build his stupid wall change your opinion?
Not prima facie, no.

But I'm open to arguments otherwise.


I suspect part of the problem with such an argument is going to be:

IF the President asserts that money allocated to national security can be spent on specific national security programs at the President's discretion;

AND Congress neither passes laws to restrict that discretion, NOR challenges the expenditures in court;

THEN the President's assertion stands, and his discretion in such matters is properly part of his constitutional authority.

I suppose it all comes down to how Congress earmarked those specific billions, and whether this particular program arguably falls within the remit of that earmark.
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Old 13th March 2020, 09:18 AM   #332
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I think Biden has been around long enough and understands the political climate that he won't be "Played like a fiddle". He has seen how McConnell treated Obama.
Biden was Obama's VP. If he couldn't figure out how to handle McConnell then, what makes you think he can figure it out now?
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Old 13th March 2020, 09:31 AM   #333
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post

What about the economy? Well, again, Clinton had relaxed many of the financial regulations (which contributed to the crash of 2008). But Obama had restored many of those regulations, and most of the Democratic candidates want even stricter enforcement. And pretty much every Democrat wants an increase in the minimum wage.

Perhaps free trade is one area where many democrats have "drifted to the right", but I think evidence has shown that trade liberalization is usually beneficial to the economy.
I'm sure Biden is going to make abortion access his top priority. It's not like he's been opposed to that his entire career and only changed his view to clear the primary. Hope you're ready for him to stop talking about all together once the general election starts. Joe doesn't give a damn about abortion access, don't be naive. Joe's gonna gallop back to the right the second that he gets the nomination.

Joe was on an interview where he said he would veto Medicare for All if it managed to clear the legislature. He can't even pretend to support progressive policies in a hypothetical where a minor miracle has occurred. He cites "high costs" as the reason.

Free trade, what a resounding success. The people in the rust belt are sure glad they could make such a noble sacrifice for the good of the economy.
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Old 13th March 2020, 09:53 AM   #334
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Quote:
I think Biden has been around long enough and understands the political climate that he won't be "Played like a fiddle". He has seen how McConnell treated Obama.
Biden was Obama's VP. If he couldn't figure out how to handle McConnell then, what makes you think he can figure it out now?
I never claimed that Biden would have a magical way to get around McConnel's obstructionism. No democrat has that (not even Sanders)

But the previous poster suggested that McConnell would "play Biden like a fiddle", suggesting he would be manipulated into doing things that were against the country's best interest. That is a different issue than whether there will be obstructionism.

I think Biden is smart enough not to be manipulated by Moscow Mitch. Yes, there may be times when some negotiation is warranted, but that would be the case with any Democrat.
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Old 13th March 2020, 10:06 AM   #335
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I never claimed that Biden would have a magical way to get around McConnel's obstructionism. No democrat has that (not even Sanders)

But the previous poster suggested that McConnell would "play Biden like a fiddle", suggesting he would be manipulated into doing things that were against the country's best interest. That is a different issue than whether there will be obstructionism.

I think Biden is smart enough not to be manipulated by Moscow Mitch. Yes, there may be times when some negotiation is warranted, but that would be the case with any Democrat.
My bad. Someone made the comparison to Obama. I inferred that they meant McConnell had played Obama, but Biden was too smart and too experienced to get played the same way.

My response to that inference is that Biden was already about as smart and experienced as he could be, when he served as Obama's VP. If he wasn't able to help Obama avoid getting played by McConnell, how could he help himself avoid the same fate, just a few short years later?

But if that inference was incorrect, then my response is moot.
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Old 13th March 2020, 12:21 PM   #336
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
I'm talking about 40 years of economic anxiety being experienced by most of us.

Congratulations on being insulated from it sufficiently such that aspects of the "culture war" apparently strikes you as the notable examples of hardships in our history.
I'm not insulated.

40 years of economic anxiety caused by whom?

Trump was elected because the country has had a steady diet of right wing propaganda. What I'm asking you is to be specific, just what specific causes of economic anxiety has the country experienced that you think Trump was the answer to? He was an answer to propaganda fed fear mongering. The economy was not crashing the 8 years prior to Trump. It's a big lie.

How is Biden going to ruin your day?
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Old 13th March 2020, 12:23 PM   #337
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm not particularly anxious or enthusiastic about it, if that's what you mean. If we get Sanders or Biden instead, that's okay too.
You're watching incompetrump mishandle this crisis in real time and you'd be OK risking another 4 years?
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Old 13th March 2020, 12:34 PM   #338
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Biden was Obama's VP. If he couldn't figure out how to handle McConnell then, what makes you think he can figure it out now?
First, McConnell's reelection is not certain. And even if he's reelected, the GOP holding the Senate majority is not certain either.

Second, McConnell does not have the power he once had. He tied his fortunes to Trump and Trump is falling flat on his face right now.

Third, Biden has 8 years of hindsight to draw on.
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Old 13th March 2020, 12:48 PM   #339
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If you want stupid, here it is....


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/elect...cid=spartandhp
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Old 13th March 2020, 12:54 PM   #340
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
If you want stupid, here it is....

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/elect...cid=spartandhp
Amplified for you by your friendly neighborhood trolls and bots farm.
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Old 13th March 2020, 01:07 PM   #341
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
You're watching incompetrump mishandle this crisis in real time and you'd be OK risking another 4 years?
Pretty much, yeah. Every week for the past three years, TDS has coughed up a fresh new definitive gotcha, The One Thing That Will Finish Trump. The One Thing #157 doesn't seem any more definitive than TOTs 1 - 156.
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Old 13th March 2020, 01:16 PM   #342
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
First, McConnell's reelection is not certain. And even if he's reelected, the GOP holding the Senate majority is not certain either.
Irrelevant to the point under discussion.

Quote:
Second, McConnell does not have the power he once had. He tied his fortunes to Trump and Trump is falling flat on his face right now.
Irrelevant to the point under discussion.

Quote:
Third, Biden has 8 years of hindsight to draw on.
Biden's been in the Senate since 1971. That's almost fifty years. Shouldn't the first forty have counted for something? Did Biden really need another eight years of observation, plus three years and counting of contemplation, to come up with a game plan?

It seems like Obama would have been better served if Biden had figured out a game plan for the McConnell Senate during his running mate's first term, and they'd put it into action in the second term.

If Biden and Obama together couldn't figure it out in four, five, six years, what makes you think Biden can figure it out on his own in eight, nine, ten years? Don't you think maybe if he had a game plan for McConnell, we would have seen it by now?

I think you better hope McConnell's out of the picture after November. Because there's no indication Biden is up to the task of working around him.
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Old 13th March 2020, 01:42 PM   #343
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Pretty much, yeah. Every week for the past three years, TDS has coughed up a fresh new definitive gotcha, The One Thing That Will Finish Trump. The One Thing #157 doesn't seem any more definitive than TOTs 1 - 156.
TDS did at least give me one of my favorite CNN headlines yesterday: The 30 most troubling things about Trump's corona virus address.
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Old 13th March 2020, 02:29 PM   #344
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Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
And as soon as he wins he'll do what all politicians like that do. Drop the act and pursue what they intended to all along. I actually hate that aspect of politics. I'd much rather they all ran on what they actually believe and therefore what they will actually fight for. At least that way you know what you're getting and can vote accordingly.
Does thsi complaint apply equally to Sanders?
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Old 13th March 2020, 02:30 PM   #345
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
I'm talking about 40 years of economic anxiety being experienced by most of us.

Congratulations on being insulated from it sufficiently such that aspects of the "culture war" apparently strikes you as the notable examples of hardships in our history.
That first sentence really stops me. If you've been economically anxious for 40 years, think about the easily billion or so people on the planet who are just trying to survive from meal to meal. That is not economic reality for most Americans. The U.S. boomer population has lived better than any generation ever. Maybe the more you have, the more insecure you feel. I know wealth inequality happens, is real and it is IMO a drag on progress, but whatever is going on in the U.S. pales against what happens globally.

In the second sentence I just don't understand what you're trying to say.
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Old 13th March 2020, 02:35 PM   #346
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
The U.S. boomer population has lived better than any generation ever.
Not all of them, of course, but on average this checks out.

https://twitter.com/graykimbrough/st...03644721524744
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Old 13th March 2020, 02:44 PM   #347
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
If you want stupid, here it is....


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/elect...cid=spartandhp
Talk is cheap. Primaries bring out some hotheads, but when the time comes to vote in the general, people tend to be more pragmatic. This excludes 25% of Hillary supporters that voted for McCain.
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Old 13th March 2020, 02:49 PM   #348
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Amplified for you by your friendly neighborhood trolls and bots farm.
From that link:


Quote:
Paul Maslin, a top Democratic pollster who worked on the presidential campaigns of Jimmy Carter and Howard Dean, said that in their overtures to Sanders’ supporters, Democrats have “time, Trump and hopefully Bernie himself on our side.”
After reading the first part of that sentence, I really wondered if there was any point to reading what he had to say. This isn't "fake news," but it is an example of grist-for-the-mill journalism. I guess I could describe that as constructing a narrative out of a factoid. I'm not sure exactly what bugs me about this, but I do wonder what makes him a top "Democratic" pollster. The qualifications presented aren't impressive.
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Old 13th March 2020, 02:51 PM   #349
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
But second, there was no mess that led to Trump.
Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
I'm talking about 40 years of economic anxiety being experienced by most of us.
BINGO! EXACTLY! SPOT-ON!

SG, you're not missing the forest for the trees, you're missing the whole planet. The "mess" is decades of American corporate kleptocracy. We live in a plutocracy now and Trump, despite being a plutocrat himself, was able to convince large numbers of people that he was an advocate the the "little guy". That "mess is real and needs to be cleaned up.

The Democrats, while claiming to be supporters of the middle class, have done almost as much as the GOP in contributing to this mess. Until their rhetoric and policies reflect a recognition of the fact of our plutocracy, they will remain in trouble.

That is why I am a Warren man. She explicitly recognizes the problem and knows what to do about it. The others, not so much.
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Old 13th March 2020, 02:54 PM   #350
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm not particularly anxious or enthusiastic about it, if that's what you mean. If we get Sanders or Biden instead, that's okay too.
That last word says to me that a second Trump term is "OK" by you. How incredibly sad - and I mean that seriously.
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Old 13th March 2020, 02:54 PM   #351
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
BINGO! EXACTLY! SPOT-ON!

SG, you're not missing the forest for the trees, you're missing the whole planet. The "mess" is decades of American corporate kleptocracy. We live in a plutocracy now and Trump, despite being a plutocrat himself, was able to convince large numbers of people that he was an advocate the the "little guy". That "mess is real and needs to be cleaned up.

The Democrats, while claiming to be supporters of the middle class, have done almost as much as the GOP in contributing to this mess. Until their rhetoric and policies reflect a recognition of the fact of our plutocracy, they will remain in trouble.

That is why I am a Warren man. She explicitly recognizes the problem and knows what to do about it. The others, not so much.
Indeed. The decline of American society has been a bipartisan effort.

In 2016, pissed off people were made to choose between a hated technocrat that hardly deigned to acknowledge the problem and a charlatan that promised to poke the system in the eye.

When real relief is not possible, spite seems pretty attractive.
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Old 13th March 2020, 03:32 PM   #352
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Pretty much, yeah. Every week for the past three years, TDS has coughed up a fresh new definitive gotcha, The One Thing That Will Finish Trump. The One Thing #157 doesn't seem any more definitive than TOTs 1 - 156.

Actually, for three years you (and others) have been absolving him of responsibility for things he F's up.

But, like you said, I have no reason to expect that to ever change.

Many people are resistant to learning from their mistakes.
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Old 13th March 2020, 03:45 PM   #353
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Irrelevant to the point under discussion.
Irrelevant to the point under discussion.
Riight, forget about facts, just make the hypothesis that McConnell will walk all over Biden fit your assertions.


Quote:
Biden's been in the Senate since 1971. That's almost fifty years. Shouldn't the first forty have counted for something? Did Biden really need another eight years of observation, plus three years and counting of contemplation, to come up with a game plan?

It seems like Obama would have been better served if Biden had figured out a game plan for the McConnell Senate during his running mate's first term, and they'd put it into action in the second term.

If Biden and Obama together couldn't figure it out in four, five, six years, what makes you think Biden can figure it out on his own in eight, nine, ten years? Don't you think maybe if he had a game plan for McConnell, we would have seen it by now?
Irrelevant to the point under discussion.
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Old 13th March 2020, 03:51 PM   #354
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
BINGO! EXACTLY! SPOT-ON!

SG, you're not missing the forest for the trees, you're missing the whole planet. The "mess" is decades of American corporate kleptocracy. We live in a plutocracy now and Trump, despite being a plutocrat himself, was able to convince large numbers of people that he was an advocate the the "little guy". That "mess is real and needs to be cleaned up.

The Democrats, while claiming to be supporters of the middle class, have done almost as much as the GOP in contributing to this mess. Until their rhetoric and policies reflect a recognition of the fact of our plutocracy, they will remain in trouble.

That is why I am a Warren man. She explicitly recognizes the problem and knows what to do about it. The others, not so much.
If this is your rationale for why Trump was elected, we live on different planets. Yes, much of that is true. No, it is not why Trump got elected. If anything it's the opposite, corporate interference is exactly how we got incompetrump.

To me, this is the Sanders' supporters' POV that the revolution which obviously ain't happening is the answer.

Warren is out of the race in case you missed that memo.

Biden is all we have.

Time to suck it up and stop promoting the belief Biden and Trump are the same.
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Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 13th March 2020 at 03:54 PM.
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Old 13th March 2020, 04:01 PM   #355
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Riight, forget about facts, just make the hypothesis that McConnell will walk all over Biden fit your assertions.


Irrelevant to the point under discussion.
The question was, how will Biden respond, if McConnell does walk all over him. Imagining scenarios where that doesn't happen doesn't address the scenario where it does happen..

If McConnell does happen to stay in power after November, do you think Biden's got a good game plan for dealing with him?
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Old 13th March 2020, 04:48 PM   #356
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
That first sentence really stops me. If you've been economically anxious for 40 years, think about the easily billion or so people on the planet who are just trying to survive from meal to meal. That is not economic reality for most Americans. The U.S. boomer population has lived better than any generation ever. Maybe the more you have, the more insecure you feel. I know wealth inequality happens, is real and it is IMO a drag on progress, but whatever is going on in the U.S. pales against what happens globally.



In the second sentence I just don't understand what you're trying to say.
I see nobody is even going to pretend like I made those comments in the context of pushing back against the idea the Return to Normal might not be as appealing to everyone as its proponents imagine.

I'm aware it's worse across most of the planet.

That has nothing to do with whether people have anything to be angry about in America.
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Old 13th March 2020, 09:29 PM   #357
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
I see nobody is even going to pretend like I made those comments in the context of pushing back against the idea the Return to Normal might not be as appealing to everyone as its proponents imagine.

I'm aware it's worse across most of the planet.

That has nothing to do with whether people have anything to be angry about in America.
Nah man. Other people have it worse, so the bad things about America don't matter apparently. Injustice is fine so long as others suffer even more!
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Old 13th March 2020, 10:02 PM   #358
Aridas
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Clinton once signed the "defense of Marriage act". Now, gay marriage is something that widely accepted within the Democratic party.
Hmm. To poke at this - When it comes to DOMA, I admit to not being particularly attentive to politics at the time, but... I've heard, recently, that DOMA was an unpleasant compromise for the Democrats as they worked to derail Republican plans of a Constitutional Amendment to completely rule out gay marriage. Thus, that might not be the best example.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Biden's been in the Senate since 1971. That's almost fifty years. Shouldn't the first forty have counted for something? Did Biden really need another eight years of observation, plus three years and counting of contemplation, to come up with a game plan?
To chip in a little... I'm largely in agreement with theprestige here. Going further, Biden has addressed this issue directly and repeated... with a pattern in his responses. A pattern that inspires no confidence from me, given that it's basically just... "If I'm elected, the Republicans will be a tiny bit easier to work with and McConnell won't be quite as bad" and without any specifics. I have no problem with calling that magical thinking. Naturally, Biden could surprise me in a good way on that front and if he becomes President, I really, really hope he does.

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Free trade, what a resounding success. The people in the rust belt are sure glad they could make such a noble sacrifice for the good of the economy.
More specifically, more trade is good, overall, even if it's not great for every industry everywhere. Things change, though, regardless. The phonograph makers have long been out of business, for example. With that said, though, there certainly are a number of measures that could have been used to reduce the damage, increase worker protections, and help with transitioning that weren't done, I think. One of the things that Warren called for, for example, was making it mandatory that part of the board of directors for big companies be composed of the workers - a measure that has apparently done quite a lot elsewhere to reduce damages caused by adherents to shareholder theory and profits are the only thing that matter philosophies.
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Last edited by Aridas; 13th March 2020 at 10:05 PM.
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Old 13th March 2020, 10:06 PM   #359
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Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
Nah man. Other people have it worse, so the bad things about America don't matter apparently. Injustice is fine so long as others suffer even more!
Somewhere out there is a cancer-ridden AIDS-having limbless blind dwarf baby who is the only person allowed to complain about anything, ever. And then just when he's feeling pretty full of himself out pops his smaller, sicker conjoined twin, who has all of that plus a cleft palate.

If you think about it, out of the seven whatever billion people on the planet, if you rank them all in terms of how bad they have it someone has to be on the bottom. Life must really, really suck for that one. But on the bright side you could also rank every human by how attractive they are. Can you imagine how incandescently hot the top 10 must be? They must appear as gods amongst barnyard animals! Just think of it, think of the hottest person you've ever met: the odds are very good that compared to the real Top Ten, that hot person looks like a termite queen that got stepped on and busted open. It really puts things into perspective, eh? I'm going to go up to that really hot guy I've been too shy to ask out and say, just right to his face, "hey, you may be really gorgeous but somewhere out there are people who make your face look like a big insect leaking pus. Wanna go out?"

Oh, also, to stay on topic, Biden needs to do something about his eye sockets. Whether it's real or fake tan he's got to put something on those white circles. It looks bad by itself, but it's magnified when he's running against Trump. That last thing he needs is another point of similarity with that orange dotard.
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Old 14th March 2020, 12:38 AM   #360
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Hmm. To poke at this - When it comes to DOMA, I admit to not being particularly attentive to politics at the time, but... I've heard, recently, that DOMA was an unpleasant compromise for the Democrats as they worked to derail Republican plans of a Constitutional Amendment to completely rule out gay marriage. Thus, that might not be the best example.
That might be recent revisionism.
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