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Old 18th March 2020, 01:29 AM   #41
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Exactly one of those sounds like a perfect date.
What? No cuddles?
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Old 18th March 2020, 05:33 AM   #42
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I just turned 40 two weeks ago, am I considered Gen X or a millennial?

And I didn't vote yesterday for one good reason. I repair fitness equipment as a side job, so I've been around all sorts of potentially infected areas....and the polls are run by 80 year olds. That just sounded like a recipe for disaster.
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Old 18th March 2020, 12:55 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
This feels like an untestable assertion at best.

Where is the top ten list and what metrics did they use?
What test do you propose? Apple is leading the fight against "right to repair" laws, trying to force their customers to only use THEIR reapair centers, who, often as not, simply say "can't fix it, get a new one" when third-party repair centers often can fix it easily.

Microsoft was almost broken up under Clinton for it's monopolistic, bullying practices and only got saved by Bush's election.
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Old 18th March 2020, 12:57 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Dread Pirate Roberts View Post
This Gen Xer tends to go with "My Corona" to the tune of My Sharona by The Knack. But that's just me.
This X-er likes the cut of your jib on this one.
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Old 18th March 2020, 01:09 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by DuvalHMFIC View Post
I just turned 40 two weeks ago, am I considered Gen X or a millennial?

And I didn't vote yesterday for one good reason. I repair fitness equipment as a side job, so I've been around all sorts of potentially infected areas....and the polls are run by 80 year olds. That just sounded like a recipe for disaster.
Millennial.

But I think the standard American generation labels are not very useful in assessing people's habits and lifestyles. Urban life has changed rapidly in the past few decades. Maybe they could be broader....or narrower. I take them about as seriously as ethnic stereotypes, hit or miss generalizations.
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Old 18th March 2020, 01:31 PM   #46
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If you've already had your birthday this year, you're not a millenial. The earliest date ranges start with '81.
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Old 18th March 2020, 08:32 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
Apple is leading the fight against "right to repair" laws, trying to force their customers to only use THEIR reapair centers, who, often as not, simply say "can't fix it, get a new one" when third-party repair centers often can fix it easily.
And this obviously puts Apple at or near the top of the list?

**** I've heard of corporate abuses which make this look entirely mundane.
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Old 19th March 2020, 05:49 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
What test do you propose? Apple is leading the fight against "right to repair" laws, trying to force their customers to only use THEIR reapair centers, who, often as not, simply say "can't fix it, get a new one" when third-party repair centers often can fix it easily.

Microsoft was almost broken up under Clinton for it's monopolistic, bullying practices and only got saved by Bush's election.
The solution is simple: don't buy apple or use Microsoft.
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Old 19th March 2020, 12:20 PM   #49
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Ya gotta love these Millennials. And they whine about Boomers?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/trave...gf9RMPr_zEb198
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Old 19th March 2020, 12:52 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Ya gotta love these Millennials. And they whine about Boomers?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/trave...gf9RMPr_zEb198
That's not fair, Florida is a cross generational collaboration of failure. Truly a team effort from all involved to do the wrong thing. Inspiring, in its own way.
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Old 19th March 2020, 12:54 PM   #51
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That would be Zoomers, not Millennials. Millennials are long since out of college at this point.
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Old 19th March 2020, 01:01 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by DuvalHMFIC View Post
That would be Zoomers, not Millennials. Millennials are long since out of college at this point.
Not necessarily. Millennials can be as young as 22. I don't think all those partiers were younger than 22.
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Old 19th March 2020, 05:11 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Millennial.

But I think the standard American generation labels are not very useful in assessing people's habits and lifestyles. Urban life has changed rapidly in the past few decades. Maybe they could be broader....or narrower. I take them about as seriously as ethnic stereotypes, hit or miss generalizations.
This is my impression too. It's just tribalism based on an arbitrary boundary.

When I was a kid, there was open hostility in our highschool between those born North or South of Queens Rd. Somebody said something once, I guess, and the prejudice stuck.

I can't seriously entertain the idea that somebody born at five minutes after midnight on Jan 1, 1966 is categorically different than somebody born ten minutes earlier.
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Old 19th March 2020, 09:56 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I wonder if there will ever be any concrete data on which people acted most and least responsibly during the outbreak. I see lots of finger pointing, but no real evidence.

At least in the US, there did appear to be a political distinction, at least in the early days. Pro-Trump conservatives seemed determined to underplay the severity of the disease.
.
Are we still in the early days? I ask because today I read posts by conservatives ranting about the MSM-created hysteria that is being used to curtail civil rights.
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Old 20th March 2020, 05:47 AM   #55
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Question Arbitrary boundary

Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
This is my impression too. It's just tribalism based on an arbitrary boundary.
It's not entirely arbitrary, though, since different generations have different formative experiences. My dad's generation had to either protest the draft or accept it (he served in the reserves during Vietnam but his unit wasn't called up). My generation had the Gulf War, but we didn't see 9/11 until we'd already chosen our path in life. My younger brother-in-law's generation graduated college during a financial crisis, my son's generation gets to choose their path in life right after watching our most mendacious politicians mismanage a pandemic and the subsequent economic fallout.

And all this is just talking about major crises, leaving aside subtle cultural shifts. Try rewatching the sitcoms you grew up with some time, notice all the jokes which wouldn't be acceptable today. Try to imagine casting a family with two dads or a transwoman mother figure back then.

So yeah I suppose the boundaries are indeed arbitrary (aside from measurable booms) but the generations really do end up seeing the world differently, IMO.
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Old 20th March 2020, 05:48 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
I can't seriously entertain the idea that somebody born at five minutes after midnight on Jan 1, 1966 is categorically different than somebody born ten minutes earlier.
You'd be wrong. The person born earlier had thick bootstraps. The person born later was just a lazy POS.
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Old 20th March 2020, 11:52 AM   #57
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I read somewhere, maybe it was even posted by somebody on this site, the generation immediately following "millennials" leans conservative in large part due to 9/11 and the War on Terror.

This may mirror boomers who grew up during the Cold War.
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Old 20th March 2020, 12:22 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
I read somewhere, maybe it was even posted by somebody on this site, the generation immediately following "millennials" leans conservative in large part due to 9/11 and the War on Terror.

This may mirror boomers who grew up during the Cold War.
I doubt it. Gen X grew up during the Cold War also, and we're quite dissimilar politically from Boomers. If geopolitical fear were a factor Gen X should be more xenophobic as the Cold War was ongoing during our formative childhood years, and so much of our popular culture of that time was anti-Soviet fearmongering propaganda.
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Old 20th March 2020, 02:55 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
It's not entirely arbitrary, though, since different generations have different formative experiences. My dad's generation had to either protest the draft or accept it (he served in the reserves during Vietnam but his unit wasn't called up). My generation had the Gulf War, but we didn't see 9/11 until we'd already chosen our path in life. My younger brother-in-law's generation graduated college during a financial crisis, my son's generation gets to choose their path in life right after watching our most mendacious politicians mismanage a pandemic and the subsequent economic fallout.

And all this is just talking about major crises, leaving aside subtle cultural shifts. Try rewatching the sitcoms you grew up with some time, notice all the jokes which wouldn't be acceptable today. Try to imagine casting a family with two dads or a transwoman mother figure back then.

So yeah I suppose the boundaries are indeed arbitrary (aside from measurable booms) but the generations really do end up seeing the world differently, IMO.
I agree.
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Old 20th March 2020, 03:13 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I doubt it. Gen X grew up during the Cold War also, and we're quite dissimilar politically from Boomers. If geopolitical fear were a factor Gen X should be more xenophobic as the Cold War was ongoing during our formative childhood years, and so much of our popular culture of that time was anti-Soviet fearmongering propaganda.
The height of the Cold War was long before the Vietnam War ended. Gen Xers would not have been exposed to the most heated confrontations between US and Soviet Union and friends.
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Old 20th March 2020, 03:24 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
The height of the Cold War was long before the Vietnam War ended. Gen Xers would not have been exposed to the most heated confrontations between US and Soviet Union and friends.
"Height" meaning what? When I was a kid the talk was pretty intense, even if there wasn't a big probability of leaders following through with it. We were exposed to what we heard in the media, regardless of whether it could be recognized as distortion after the fact. As far as we knew, WWIII with nukes was a button press away.
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Old 20th March 2020, 09:42 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
The height of the Cold War was long before the Vietnam War ended. Gen Xers would not have been exposed to the most heated confrontations between US and Soviet Union and friends.

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Old 20th March 2020, 10:21 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
And this obviously puts Apple at or near the top of the list?

**** I've heard of corporate abuses which make this look entirely mundane.
And on the other end of the ****show, their Chinese factories have to have suicide barriers because conditions are so intolerable there. Apple actively works to screw people over in every single step of their operation. They are one of the most demonic manifestations of capitalism ever spawned.
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Old 20th March 2020, 10:22 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
The solution is simple: don't buy apple or use Microsoft.
The solution is even simpler. Enforce the laws that are supposed to make corporations toe the line and function like civilized organizations.
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Old 20th March 2020, 10:24 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
Are we still in the early days? I ask because today I read posts by conservatives Rusasian agitprop agents ranting about the MSM-created hysteria that is being used to curtail civil rights.
FIFY
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Old 20th March 2020, 10:26 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
I read somewhere, maybe it was even posted by somebody on this site, the generation immediately following "millennials" leans conservative in large part due to 9/11 and the War on Terror.
They also grew up marinated in highly sophisticated right-wing propaganda fed to them from all fronts.
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Old 21st March 2020, 02:11 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Beeyon View Post
I'm inclined to join the blame-the-baby-boomer camp.

But what years were they really 'in power'?

No generation was ever 'in power'. For some reason people find it very difficult to grasp the concept, but the 0,1%'ers aren't really a generational thing. Neither is cultural behaviour. Some of the boomers were old enough to be in Woodstock, some weren't. Some boomers were fighting the the VCs in Vietnam, others were fighting the politicians that sent them there. Some voted Trump into office, some would have preferred Sanders. Some benefit from Trump's policies, some definitely don't. I wasn't aware of this thread at the time, but I had the following very strange discussion in the members forum, which is why I can't quote the anti-boomer:

Originally Posted by dann View Post
And so far, nobody really seems to be taking this [generational] difference into consideration beyond the attempts to protect hospitals and retirement homes. So why not do something to let (healthy) young people become immune to the disease by having and (in the vast majority of cases, apparently) overcoming it so they'll no longer be a health risk to anybody else? (I.e. 'quarantine' them in order to get it over with so they can return to their schools and colleges or whatever they were doing until now, i.e. 'pox party')
Originally Posted by dann View Post
What a weird post! Why do you think that's what I assume???
What I do assume is that most young people are very well aware of the fact that very few grandparents belong to the 1%.
Originally Posted by dann View Post
Yes, extremely few! What are "these parts" that you're talking about? Is it geographical or all in your head? The majority of "the older generation (60yrs +)" are piss poor. You seem to have bought into the ideology about wealthy boomers.
The 1% (or better still, the 0.1%) is a question of class, i.e. private property, not age!
It's like when some people believe that the boomer all used to be hippies back in the 1960s and '70s. Very few actually were.
And some X'ers, millennials and even a few Z'ers are extremely rich and part of the 0.1% - the majority of the latter because they were born into wealth.
Boomers and millennials: this is not intergenerational warfare, it's class warfare (The Guardian, April 6, 2016)
“OK boomer” isn’t just about the past. It’s about our apocalyptic future. It’s not really about age — and it’s more complicated than just memes. (Vox, Nov. 19, 2019)
Originally Posted by dann View Post
It is when you claim that "the older generation (60yrs +) hold the wealth and property" as if certain generations collectively own wealth and property. Geez!
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Old 21st March 2020, 02:29 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Ya gotta love these Millennials. And they whine about Boomers?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/trave...gf9RMPr_zEb198

It has already been pointed out that they are younger than Millennials. But I don't find it hard to empathize with them. To the majority of them, this virus won't be worse than a cold, and some of them won't even be aware that they have (had) it.
In my opinion they should be allowed to party and go crazy and infect each other, i.e. get it over with for a couple of weeks.
That is not the problem. The problem is that they return from the party too soon and infect people to whom the virus is a much more serious threat - and sometimes even lethal.
In this respect, it's a generational thing, but not entirely. Consider this 18-year-old girl on immunosuppressants after a lung transplant. She can't party and getting infected will probably kill her.
That is why people like her would be exempt from my not-entirely-serious proposal.

ETA: By the way, in Denmark the people who brought the virus into the country from Tyrol were Gen X'ers and Millennials:
Quote:
Age distribution of cases in Denmark

Age ---- Number of cases

0-9: 13
10-19 35
20-29 153
30-39 170
40-49 345
50-59 224
60-69 127
70-79 82
80-89 65
90+ 12

The majority of confirmed cases were infected in Denmark. Until now most cases have been Danish tourists on holiday in Austria.

Nyeste corona-tal fra Danmark og verden: Så mange er smittede, døde og indlagte (TV2)
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Old 21st March 2020, 12:12 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
It has already been pointed out that they are younger than Millennials. But I don't find it hard to empathize with them. To the majority of them, this virus won't be worse than a cold, and some of them won't even be aware that they have (had) it.
In my opinion they should be allowed to party and go crazy and infect each other, i.e. get it over with for a couple of weeks.
That is not the problem. The problem is that they return from the party too soon and infect people to whom the virus is a much more serious threat - and sometimes even lethal.
In this respect, it's a generational thing, but not entirely. Consider this 18-year-old girl on immunosuppressants after a lung transplant. She can't party and getting infected will probably kill her.
That is why people like her would be exempt from my not-entirely-serious proposal.

ETA: By the way, in Denmark the people who brought the virus into the country from Tyrol were Gen X'ers and Millennials:
As I have already pointed out, not all those kids on the beach are under 22 so whether they are Millennials or slightly younger isn't important. They have the same mind-set.

"...they should be allowed to party and go crazy and infect each other, i.e. get it over with for a couple of weeks. "

This is what my parents generation did in the 50's and early 60's with rubella, measles, chicken pox. When one kid got it, they took all the other kids in the neighborhood over to their house and let them all get it. As most adults had had the disease as children they were immune. I know that's how my sister and I got all three diseases as kids.

I think the kids' (in the video) attitude is due to emotional immaturity, "me, me" selfishness, and the sense of immortality that the young tend to have.
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Old 22nd March 2020, 07:13 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
This is what my parents generation did in the 50's and early 60's with rubella, measles, chicken pox. When one kid got it, they took all the other kids in the neighborhood over to their house and let them all get it. As most adults had had the disease as children they were immune. I know that's how my sister and I got all three diseases as kids.

That was the point of my reference to pox parties.

Quote:
I think the kids' (in the video) attitude is due to emotional immaturity, "me, me" selfishness, and the sense of immortality that the young tend to have.

I think so, too. But in this case, they seem to be right about their own invulnerability, which is why it would have been a better idea to isolate them, i.e. let them party for a couple of weeks, infect each other and get it over with, before they returned to civilization and not a moment sooner. Instead, they have attempted to isolate the elderly - as if the employees working at retirement homes don't risk being infected when they get home from work.
The health care system would have been able to cope with the few teens and tweens seriously affected by the virus, wouldn't have run out of respirators and ventilators, and a large segment of the population would then have achieved immunity and thus serve the role as buffers against the disease.
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Old 22nd March 2020, 10:28 AM   #71
ChristianProgressive
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
That was the point of my reference to pox parties.
Pox Parties = child abuse




Quote:
I think so, too. But in this case, they seem to be right about their own invulnerability, which is why it would have been a better idea to isolate them, i.e. let them party for a couple of weeks, infect each other and get it over with, before they returned to civilization and not a moment sooner. Instead, they have attempted to isolate the elderly - as if the employees working at retirement homes don't risk being infected when they get home from work.
The health care system would have been able to cope with the few teens and tweens seriously affected by the virus, wouldn't have run out of respirators and ventilators, and a large segment of the population would then have achieved immunity and thus serve the role as buffers against the disease.
That's not what the science shows. As much as 40% of cases involve people under the age of 40s. This is not an "old person's sickness", it's an EVRERYone sickness.
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Old 22nd March 2020, 11:09 AM   #72
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
Pox Parties = child abuse






That's not what the science shows. As much as 40% of cases involve people under the age of 40s. This is not an "old person's sickness", it's an EVRERYone sickness.
Nonsense. In what way was it abuse? These diseases were far less dangerous for children than for adults. Mumps in post-puberty males can cause infertility. In the days before vaccines, it made sense to get it young and get it over with.

I do agree with you regarding C 19 not just being an 'old person' disease. They are finding that
Quote:
Millennials are not invincible. The new data show that up to one-fifth of infected people ages 20-44 have been hospitalized, including 2%-4% who required treatment in an intensive care unit.
https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/18/...ot-invincible/
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Old 22nd March 2020, 11:13 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Nonsense. In what way was it abuse? These diseases were far less dangerous for children than for adults. Mumps in post-puberty males can cause infertility. In the days before vaccines, it made sense to get it young and get it over with.
You've got your tenses mixed up. Nobody said "was" they said "are."

The Anti-vaxxers are still waaaaaaay into "Pox Parties." We aren't talking "was" we're talking now.
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Old 22nd March 2020, 11:28 AM   #74
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
You've got your tenses mixed up. Nobody said "was" they said "are."

The Anti-vaxxers are still waaaaaaay into "Pox Parties." We aren't talking "was" we're talking now.
Ah. You are correct.

Anti-vaxxers are idiots.
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Old 22nd March 2020, 02:17 PM   #75
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That is why it's important to distinguish between then and now. Nowadays we have an efficient vaccine against measles. Before the vaccine, exposing children to the measles before they got too old was the rational thing to do. Now it's the anti-vaxxer thing to do.

20 to 44-year-olds may not be "invincible", but their chances are immensely better than that of the elderly:

Quote:
But of the 144 cases in people 85 and older, 31% to 71% were hospitalized and 6.3% to 29% needed intensive care. The death rate in that age group was 10% to 27%.
In contrast, among people 20 to 44, 14% to 21% of 705 cases were admitted to hospitals and 2% to 4% to ICUs; 0.1% to 0.2% died.

Hardly anybody in their early 20s have serious problems with Covid-19. And 44-year-olds aren't spring breakers.

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
You've got your tenses mixed up. Nobody said "was" they said "are."

Yes, somebody did say "was." I did, and I made it explicitly clear that I was talking about the pox parties of the past:
Quote:
Only ignorant parents, i.e. anti-vaxxers, organize pox parties for their children. Pox parties used to be a thing that concerned parents did to protect their children because infections like measles and chicken pox got riskier as the children grew older. Better let them suffer through it while they were still young. But nowadays we have vaccines against these diseases so the children no longer have to get sick in order to acquire immunity. Link
ChristianProgressive got it wrong as if I had been talking about the pox parties that anti-vaxxers have and recommend nowadays.
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 22nd March 2020 at 02:20 PM.
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Old 22nd March 2020, 02:27 PM   #76
dann
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
Pox Parties = child abuse

See the post above this one: There's a difference between then and now that you ignore.

Quote:
That's not what the science shows. As much as 40% of cases involve people under the age of 40s. This is not an "old person's sickness", it's an EVRERYone sickness.

Consider the meaning of the word "involve"! It means number of people infected. I don't think anybody has claimed that "people under the age of 40" aren't "involved." I definitely haven't.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 22nd March 2020, 02:30 PM   #77
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
That is why it's important to distinguish between then and now. Nowadays we have an efficient vaccine against measles. Before the vaccine, exposing children to the measles before they got too old was the rational thing to do. Now it's the anti-vaxxer thing to do.

20 to 44-year-olds may not be "invincible", but their chances are immensely better than that of the elderly:




Hardly anybody in their early 20s have serious problems with Covid-19. And 44-year-olds aren't spring breakers.




Yes, somebody did say "was." I did, and I made it explicitly clear that I was talking about the pox parties of the past:


ChristianProgressive got it wrong as if I had been talking about the pox parties that anti-vaxxers have and recommend nowadays
.
Thanks for clarifying that. I just took Joe M's word for it that I'd made a mistake in my understanding. No biggie; we all make mistakes.
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Old 22nd March 2020, 06:46 PM   #78
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And coming as no big surprise:

Quote:
A group of Florida college students traveling together on spring break have tested positive for the novel coronavirus
https://www.insider.com/college-stud...YGhoyljuDGIBd0
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Old 23rd March 2020, 04:14 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
The Florida example is going to be among the worst. Across the board total failure. Young people selfishly refusing to cancel their vacation plans alone did not do this. The Governor refused to order the beaches closed, and I'm sure most of these local tourist business owners were glad for it.
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Old 23rd March 2020, 06:06 AM   #80
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Part of me is thinking, weren't we just hearing about how Obamacare wouldn't work because young people are healthy and don't want to pay for health insurance?

Maybe it's not such a big deal if the youths are getting C19 and staying home sick for a few weeks. They're unlikely to burden the hospital system (being otherwise healthy), and so it might be a good way to move the virus through society while still flattening the curve.
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