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Old 8th November 2017, 12:23 PM   #2121
bruto
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
I'd point out that saying something falls due to density is simply replacing a question with a tautology, akin to saying "It doesn't fall because of gravity, it falls because it's heavy!"

In other words, the same type of logic my children would present around age 4 or so.
Yes, I'm assuming, most likely wildly, that the term "density" refers to the actual density of something. I seem vaguely to recall that that lying Illuminati shill Galileo did a thing or two with regard to relative weight and the speed of descent.
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Old 9th November 2017, 03:09 AM   #2122
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Yes, I'm assuming, most likely wildly, that the term "density" refers to the actual density of something. I seem vaguely to recall that that lying Illuminati shill Galileo did a thing or two with regard to relative weight and the speed of descent.
While they use the term density, really they are meaning buoyancy, and seem to be totally unaware that without gravity, you have no buoyancy!

Their idea is based on that objects of greater density than a fluid sink, while objects of lesser density than the fluid float. They don't seem to understand why this occurs, and thus simply declare that since we are more dense than air, we sink in it and that's why we are stuck to the planet's surface.

The idea that we are buoyant in air, just not enough to overcome gravity doesn't occur to them.

The math is simple really. The fluid around us creates a force on us and as we know, F = ma so we need a mass, which is going to be that amount equal to the fluid we have displaced. Now we just need an acceleration. I wonder what could that acceleration could be? Oh yes, that would be 9.81ms-2 or "g" which is of cause G*ME/RE2 or the Gravitational Constant times the mass of the Earth times the square of the Earth's Radius. What we call Gravitational Acceleration.

So the buoyancy force is mdg, and the gravitational force is mog, so if md (the mass displaced) is greater than the mass of the object (mo) then because g is the same on both sides the force as a net is downwards, and the object sinks, while if the mass displaced is greater, then the force is net upwards and the object floats. Since both have the same volume, and Density is Mass by Volume, then we get the result we started with, an object that is denser than the fluid it is in will sink, and one that is less dense will float.

Now I am sure that some witt will point out that since we have g on both side of the equation we can just get rid of it and so it doesn't prove that gravity exists at all. However, we can't because of a very special condition.

When g = 0

If g is zero, such as in zero-g freefall, then both sides also become zero and because of that there is no force and even if the object is a different density to the fluid it is in, it will neither float nor sink because no forces are acting on it. Density no longer matters and even different density liquids such as oil and water simply mix into a single layer of water and oil globules.

But hey, don't take my word for it, why not watch it for yourself.....

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Old 11th November 2017, 03:48 AM   #2123
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Why is it that flat earthers deny gravity exists, finding the notion that mass attracts mass so ridiculous, and yet they have no problem believing that a vacuum sucks, that the absolute nothing that's in a vacuum can apply a force to matter?

That force of suction being the reason rockets wouldn't work in space, and why a globe earth wouldn't be able to hold on to its atmosphere.
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Old 11th November 2017, 11:10 AM   #2124
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Is The Earth Spinning or Stationary?

Originally Posted by alexi_drago View Post
Why is it that flat earthers deny gravity exists, finding the notion that mass attracts mass so ridiculous, and yet they have no problem believing that a vacuum sucks, that the absolute nothing that's in a vacuum can apply a force to matter?

That force of suction being the reason rockets wouldn't work in space, and why a globe earth wouldn't be able to hold on to its atmosphere.


They have an answer for that. According to them there IS no space as described by NASA. We are capped by the firmament. There are even videos claiming they’re of object “scraping” against the firmament.

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A lack of gravity becomes camera tricks and lies. The behavior of a gravity tower in 0 Gravity becomes as nonsensical as asking about how well A1 steak sauce goes with Griffin meat. In their minds you’re asking about how a real thing (the steak sauce and the gravity tower) interacts with a fictional thing (the griffin and 0g).

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Old 11th November 2017, 01:27 PM   #2125
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
They have an answer for that. According to them there IS no space as described by NASA. We are capped by the firmament. There are even videos claiming they’re of object “scraping” against the firmament.

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A lack of gravity becomes camera tricks and lies. The behavior of a gravity tower in 0 Gravity becomes as nonsensical as asking about how well A1 steak sauce goes with Griffin meat. In their minds you’re asking about how a real thing (the steak sauce and the gravity tower) interacts with a fictional thing (the griffin and 0g).
In reply to their gravity denials I bring up two laboratory experiments confirming gravity, one with a torsion device and a more recent one with lead weights influencing quantum diffraction. The torsion experiment they hand wave away based on musings by a theorist who denies it shows gravity, however they ignore that he also thinks the Earth is a globe. The quantum diffraction experiment they have no answer for, they generally retreat at that point to insisting the laboratory experiment must show water adhering to a globe.
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Old 11th November 2017, 02:40 PM   #2126
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
In reply to their gravity denials I bring up two laboratory experiments confirming gravity, one with a torsion device and a more recent one with lead weights influencing quantum diffraction. The torsion experiment they hand wave away based on musings by a theorist who denies it shows gravity, however they ignore that he also thinks the Earth is a globe. The quantum diffraction experiment they have no answer for, they generally retreat at that point to insisting the laboratory experiment must show water adhering to a globe.
well with a large enough globe, set up in orbit, it could actually be done, but the problem is that a) if it was in space they wouldn't believe it, and b) either they have no understanding why such things can't be done on Earth, or they do know and keep using it because they think that it's clever.
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Old 11th November 2017, 04:04 PM   #2127
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Still spinning (just in case anyone is ignorant enough to think it won't/wouldn't be)!!!!
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Old 11th November 2017, 11:21 PM   #2128
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Dunno about that.
After going out drinking last night, the earth suddenly (but only briefly) spun violently and then remained still for about 10 hours.
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Old 12th November 2017, 01:54 AM   #2129
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I've heard nothing from the Facebook friend-of-a-friend since I encouraged him to disprove gravity by fliming himself jumping off a tall building.
I'm beginning to worry....
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Old 12th November 2017, 06:00 AM   #2130
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
Dunno about that.
After going out drinking last night, the earth suddenly (but only briefly) spun violently and then remained still for about 10 hours.
I noticed that too.............................

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Old 12th November 2017, 06:10 AM   #2131
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
They have an answer for that. According to them there IS no space as described by NASA. We are capped by the firmament. There are even videos claiming they’re of object “scraping” against the firmament.

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A lack of gravity becomes camera tricks and lies. The behavior of a gravity tower in 0 Gravity becomes as nonsensical as asking about how well A1 steak sauce goes with Griffin meat. In their minds you’re asking about how a real thing (the steak sauce and the gravity tower) interacts with a fictional thing (the griffin and 0g).
It's not that, it's that they say there's no 'magical' force of gravity between masses, then in their next breath they claim that the nothing (of a vacuum) can somehow apply a force to mass.
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Old 12th November 2017, 01:19 PM   #2132
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
I've heard nothing from the Facebook friend-of-a-friend since I encouraged him to disprove gravity by fliming himself jumping off a tall building.
I'm beginning to worry....
No worries. If he hit somebody, it would be in the news. Otherwise, you just made the world a little saner.

Hans
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Old 12th November 2017, 01:24 PM   #2133
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
They have an answer for that. According to them there IS no space as described by NASA. We are capped by the firmament. There are even videos claiming they’re of object “scraping” against the firmament.

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A lack of gravity becomes camera tricks and lies. The behavior of a gravity tower in 0 Gravity becomes as nonsensical as asking about how well A1 steak sauce goes with Griffin meat. In their minds you’re asking about how a real thing (the steak sauce and the gravity tower) interacts with a fictional thing (the griffin and 0g).
Text: "And now it scrapes against the dome a few times before decent."

Which time is decent to scrape?



Note, by the way, how the horizon obviously curves in that video. Trust that kind of people to get the spelling wrong and disprove their own claim in one go.

Hans
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Old 12th November 2017, 04:39 PM   #2134
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Flat Earth International Conference

Yes, there were enough of them to rent a hotel room.

http://fe2017.com/

And apparently it was sold out with 500 attendees.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/loc...183782906.html



It burns, it burns.

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Old 13th November 2017, 01:41 AM   #2135
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
No worries. If he hit somebody, it would be in the news. Otherwise, you just made the world a little saner.

Hans
Thanks. I'd rather the Darwin Awards were self-selecting, though. I feel i bit like I've just joined one of those Japanese suicide websites.
"Go on! Jump! You'll be fine!"
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Old 13th November 2017, 03:23 AM   #2136
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Thanks. I'd rather the Darwin Awards were self-selecting, though. I feel i bit like I've just joined one of those Japanese suicide websites.
"Go on! Jump! You'll be fine!"
"Ah. Oh dear."
Somebody tells you to jump, so you jump? That IS self-selection.

But, I doubt he has. Like other fringe people, he simply moved to greener pastures as soon as he encountered serious resistance. When you defend idiotic concepts like stationary or flat earth, you don't have a continuous chain of logic and observation to draw from, you have some layers of strawmen and unsupported claims, and when you encounter someone who starts to peel them away quickly you need to leave, lest your claim be stripped bare in a jiffy.

Hans
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Old 13th November 2017, 03:07 PM   #2137
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A few months ago I posted this in the "companion thread" to this one:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...6#post11913546

I was back playing in my lab today and wonder if this is a thing that any flat earthers will think about. The TL;DR version: I have a box that after receiving power, and a few commands, will tell me its Latitude on the earth's surface, and which way North is. I contend that this is achieved by measuring the rotation of the earth. How would this result be achieved on a flat and/or stationary earth?

Inquiring minds want to know...
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Old 18th November 2017, 01:46 AM   #2138
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Originally Posted by cow_cat View Post
A few months ago I posted this in the "companion thread" to this one:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...6#post11913546

I was back playing in my lab today and wonder if this is a thing that any flat earthers will think about. The TL;DR version: I have a box that after receiving power, and a few commands, will tell me its Latitude on the earth's surface, and which way North is. I contend that this is achieved by measuring the rotation of the earth. How would this result be achieved on a flat and/or stationary earth?

Inquiring minds want to know...
Dont hold your breath waiting on any answers to that,they just fit in all sorts of nonsense to go with their story. In a video by globe busters it was stated that they'd got hold of some sort of fibre optic gyro and that they'd measured a 15 degree per hour rotation, so they concluded that it wasn't the rotation of the earth they'd measured but the rotation of the aether around the flat earth.
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Old 20th November 2017, 05:30 PM   #2139
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I'm not holding my breath, but it's amazing how 15 degrees per hour equals 360 degrees in one day. It's almost like mathematics itself is in on the conspiracy...
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Old 20th November 2017, 05:41 PM   #2140
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Originally Posted by cow_cat View Post
I'm not holding my breath, but it's amazing how 15 degrees per hour equals 360 degrees in one day. It's almost like mathematics itself is in on the conspiracy...
Hey, that aether cat is known for no end of skulduggery. Heck, it even took Michelson & Morley for everything they had and gave them the old null result in return.
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Old 20th November 2017, 08:33 PM   #2141
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Self-taught rocket scientist plans to launch over ghost town

Quote:
Hughes is a 61-year-old limo driver who’s spent the last few years building a steam-powered rocket out of salvage parts in his garage. His project has cost him $20,000, which includes Rust-Oleum paint to fancy it up and a motor home he bought on Craigslist that he converted into a ramp.
...
“I’m a walking reality show.”
...
I don’t believe in science,” said Hughes, whose main sponsor for the rocket is Research Flat Earth. “I know about aerodynamics and fluid dynamics and how things move through the air, about the certain size of rocket nozzles, and thrust. But that’s not science, that’s just a formula. There’s no difference between science and science fiction.”

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Old 22nd November 2017, 12:55 PM   #2142
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Ooh, a live broadcast attempt for the Darwin award.
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Old 22nd November 2017, 03:05 PM   #2143
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So I'll just tell my daughter, an honors student in the Aerospace Engineering program at her school, that she's not studying science, shall I?
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Old 22nd November 2017, 03:09 PM   #2144
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Originally Posted by Arisia View Post
So I'll just tell my daughter, an honors student in the Aerospace Engineering program at her school, that she's not studying science, shall I?
Has she built and flown in her own rocket?
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Old 22nd November 2017, 03:10 PM   #2145
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Oooh, someone should give him a gift subscription to Analog Science Fiction and Fact!
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Old 22nd November 2017, 03:16 PM   #2146
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Originally Posted by alexi_drago View Post
Has she built and flown in her own rocket?
Not yet, but then again, neither has he!
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Old 22nd November 2017, 03:24 PM   #2147
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Originally Posted by Arisia View Post
Not yet, but then again, neither has he!
This will be his 2nd launch.
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Old 22nd November 2017, 03:28 PM   #2148
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Originally Posted by alexi_drago View Post
This will be his 2nd launch.
Yep, missed that bit in the article, sorry!

He better be thankful the science of parachutes tends to work whether he believes in it or not!


(Yes, I know he's playing up to the Flat Earth lot to get more funding.)

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Old 23rd November 2017, 01:32 AM   #2149
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Originally Posted by Arisia View Post
Yep, missed that bit in the article, sorry!

He better be thankful the science of parachutes tends to work whether he believes in it or not!


(Yes, I know he's playing up to the Flat Earth lot to get more funding.)
Let's hope he's studied the Theory of Density in enough detail to be sure his parachute will work, or that he even needs one in the first place. Gravity, we are told, has never been scientifically proven to exist, and is just another one of NASA's lies.

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Old 23rd November 2017, 05:13 AM   #2150
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Let's hope he's studied the Theory of Density in enough detail to be sure his parachute will work, or that he even needs one in the first place. Gravity, we are told, has never been scientifically proven to exist, and is just another one of NASA's lies.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/59/32/48/5...45362b48bb.jpg
But but but, gravity was proposed by Newton, long before NASA was even a government agency!!!!!!

EDIT:
I'm not on NASA's payroll either.

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Old 23rd November 2017, 05:26 AM   #2151
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Originally Posted by bknight View Post
But but but, gravity was proposed by Newton, long before NASA was even a government agency!!!!!!

EDIT:
I'm not on NASA's payroll either.
Newton was a paid shill of the British government - still counts.
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Old 23rd November 2017, 09:02 AM   #2152
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Originally Posted by Arisia View Post
So I'll just tell my daughter, an honors student in the Aerospace Engineering program at her school, that she's not studying science, shall I?
I was studying that 50 years ago. It's not science, it's engineering, despite the many actual science classes I had to take.
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Old 23rd November 2017, 12:38 PM   #2153
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Originally Posted by alexi_drago View Post
This will be his 2nd launch.
And how far will this attempt take him. Will it be far enough to actually observe the curvature he doesn't believe. Is he going to place a piece of paper on his cockpit to reference?
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Old 23rd November 2017, 04:57 PM   #2154
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I was studying that 50 years ago. It's not science, it's engineering, despite the many actual science classes I had to take.

I guess I'll never understand the whole 'science isn't engineering, engineering isn't science' thing, like on 'The Big Bang Theory'. To me, engineering is the ultimate expression of applying the physical sciences in real life. Of course, I have a degree in a social science (Geography), so a bit of an outsiders view.
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Old 23rd November 2017, 05:08 PM   #2155
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Originally Posted by Arisia View Post
I guess I'll never understand the whole 'science isn't engineering, engineering isn't science' thing, like on 'The Big Bang Theory'. To me, engineering is the ultimate expression of applying the physical sciences in real life. Of course, I have a degree in a social science (Geography), so a bit of an outsiders view.
On the Big Bang Theory it's pushed as a joke between what is Theoretical Science and what is Physical Application of Science. i.e, Engineering isn't science because you get your hands dirty doing it.
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Old 23rd November 2017, 05:19 PM   #2156
Trebuchet
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Originally Posted by Arisia View Post
I guess I'll never understand the whole 'science isn't engineering, engineering isn't science' thing, like on 'The Big Bang Theory'. To me, engineering is the ultimate expression of applying the physical sciences in real life. Of course, I have a degree in a social science (Geography), so a bit of an outsiders view.
Science is figuring out how the universe works, right down to the lowest levels of life and non-life.
Applied Science, like engineering and medicine, is making use of that knowledge.
There's some overlap, of course, but not all that much. I would never in a million years have called myself a scientist.
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Old 23rd November 2017, 05:25 PM   #2157
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Originally Posted by bknight View Post
And how far will this attempt take him. Will it be far enough to actually observe the curvature he doesn't believe. Is he going to place a piece of paper on his cockpit to reference?
About 1800' in a steam rocket. So nothing will be observed as he holds on for dear life.
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Old 23rd November 2017, 05:31 PM   #2158
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It is just a stunt to ADVERTISE for flat Earth. Yet another ignorant dunning kruger example that is trying to spread his ignorance.
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Old 24th November 2017, 12:54 PM   #2159
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Flat earthers generally seem to think rockets work by pushing against the atmosphere and so wouldn't work in the vacuum of space, I wonder what mad Mike and his formulae say about that?
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Old 24th November 2017, 02:27 PM   #2160
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Originally Posted by alexi_drago View Post
Flat earthers generally seem to think [...]
I disagree.

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