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Tags general discussion , holocaust , holocaust denial , World War II history

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Old 23rd September 2017, 12:46 AM   #361
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Originally Posted by LeoMajor View Post
I am not Jewish and am not a fan of Israel or Bibi. I am not a fan of those like you who rape history in the name of dead, evil ideologies that my forefathers fought against. You have thus far offered no resistance to our fact-based arguments and are close to total capitulation. Your use of braindead memes and cheap insults only discredits you.
I doubt many (if anyone) contributing to this thread has anything to do with the subject matter directly. The point, as with any subject, is not whether the poster has some sort of ulterior motive but whether or not what is being posted is true.

Jumping up and down and shouting 'Hasbara', 'Zionist shill' or whatever as if that's all that is required does nothing to persuade anyone that they are incorrect and is as irrelevant as me disagreeing with a poster just because he is a nazi.

The disagreement is over points of fact and historical accuracy. Nazis and their loathsome apologists are not so good at presenting these.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 03:35 AM   #362
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Mod WarningYet again the thread devolves into comments about one another. Issued several Rule 11/12/0 infractions but not going to go back any further in trying to remove posts in breach of the Membership Agreement. Going to put the thread onto moderated status for a little while to see if we can get it back to the topic of the thread rather than what you think of each other.
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Old 29th September 2017, 12:05 PM   #363
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In Eric Hunts video on the gas chambers, at 13.08 he presents a witness Allen Seder who talks about showering. Hunt presents that as having taken place at Treblinka. Is there access to the entire interview? Seder's interview is subtitled Bialystock to Treblinka to Majdanek. I want to check where in that journey he is recounting showering.

My recollection from previous debates when Hunts video first came out was that he had posted interviewees recounting showering, but it was at their final destination.
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Old 30th September 2017, 10:21 PM   #364
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http://vhaonline.usc.edu/viewingPage...returnIndex=0#

According to the note on this page, this interview "is not viewable in the Visual History Archive Online. Testimony videos not viewable in the VHA Online can be viewed onsite at many institutions around the world."

There's a link for a directory of sites where the interview can be viewed.
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Old 21st October 2017, 10:53 AM   #365
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Can this thread be reinstated without moderation? It has died a death.
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Old 21st October 2017, 11:17 AM   #366
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Mod WarningThread taken off moderated status. Any return to the previous naughty behaviour will result it going straight back onto moderated status!
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Old 21st October 2017, 11:40 AM   #367
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Can this thread be reinstated without moderation? It has died a death.
Well it seems to lack a antagonist. We appear to be all protagonists.

Unless someone would like to volunteer to be the antagonist we are stuck. Until the sloshing tides of fate once again wash up a suitable foil.
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Old 21st October 2017, 12:27 PM   #368
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Well it seems to lack a antagonist. We appear to be all protagonists.

Unless someone would like to volunteer to be the antagonist we are stuck. Until the sloshing tides of fate once again wash up a suitable foil.

The 6 million figure is not supported by evidence. In reality, the total number of Jews murdered was different - as low as 5.65 million (though possibly more than 6 million). Records are spotty and the Soviets overstated their losses to the Nazis.

Debunk that, Jew lovers!
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Old 21st October 2017, 12:37 PM   #369
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The guy Scaramucci who was briefly speaker of the White House has put up a poll on twitter that asks how many Jews died during the holocaust, and at the moment almost a quarter of almost 40,000 votes say it was less than a million, while around 70% say it was more than five millions. This seems to make some headwaves in the usual circles.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 03:48 AM   #370
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In fairness, this could simply be a case of widespread ignorance of history, rather than rampant Holocaust denial. I believe Scaramucci stated that the former was what he intended to demonstrate. However, I see that some deniers are posting their [rule10] in the comments.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 01:27 PM   #371
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We don't need a resident denier since none are able or willing to evidence their beliefs and there reasons to dismiss evidence for the Holocaust are spurious.

At the moment I am getting the usual abuse at RODOH for providing medical evidence to prove F Berg's claim the vast majority of people gassed with CO would show obvious bright cherry red skin. Since only one witness mentions pink skin (a German who witnessed a gassing using a van) and some witnesses mention other colours, Berg thinks he has found a flaw which shows all the witnesses lied. The problem for him is that cherry red skin is not common and obvious prior to death (the CDC and NHS confirm that) and it only appears with lividity.

Berg's next mistake is he thought lividity appears all over the body within minutes of death. But it take hours to form and cannot form at all if a body is moved. As the bodies were being moved from the chambers to be buried they had not had time to left lividity form and in any case, movement stopped it from forming.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 01:37 PM   #372
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
The guy Scaramucci who was briefly speaker of the White House has put up a poll on twitter that asks how many Jews died during the holocaust, and at the moment almost a quarter of almost 40,000 votes say it was less than a million, while around 70% say it was more than five millions. This seems to make some headwaves in the usual circles.
The problem with asking "how many were killed" is that means different things to different people. To me "killed" means murdered, so that is those who were gassed or shot. That includes reprisal actions such as at Babi Yar as well as actions part of the Final Solution.

If you asked my how many died, I would include everyone who died whilst under Nazi control, from those who perished during persecutions, in the camps from disease or neglect and who died on the death marches.

Then people often don't think of non Jews, such as gypsies and others who were gassed and shot. They think of the Holocaust as referring to Jewish victims.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 05:00 PM   #373
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
If you asked my how many died, I would include everyone who died whilst under Nazi control, from those who perished during persecutions, in the camps from disease or neglect and who died on the death marches.

I would include those deaths as kills because the Nazi's weren't actually trying to keep any of those people alive. If it were a real refugee camp ravaged by disease, maybe. But there was no "resettlement," it was all just slavery and murder.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 08:02 PM   #374
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
We don't need a resident denier since none are able or willing to evidence their beliefs and there reasons to dismiss evidence for the Holocaust are spurious.

At the moment I am getting the usual abuse at RODOH for providing medical evidence to prove F Berg's claim the vast majority of people gassed with CO would show obvious bright cherry red skin. Since only one witness mentions pink skin (a German who witnessed a gassing using a van) and some witnesses mention other colours, Berg thinks he has found a flaw which shows all the witnesses lied. The problem for him is that cherry red skin is not common and obvious prior to death (the CDC and NHS confirm that) and it only appears with lividity.

Berg's next mistake is he thought lividity appears all over the body within minutes of death. But it take hours to form and cannot form at all if a body is moved. As the bodies were being moved from the chambers to be buried they had not had time to left lividity form and in any case, movement stopped it from forming.
Indeed, there are often aspects appearance of a body that might not become apparent in an examination shortly after death, which only become apparent hours later with a detailed examination by a forensic pathologist. Certain kinds of bruising sometimes don't show up until after rigor mortis has ended. In rare cases, previously invisible bruises can show up during embalming.

In the case of red skin due to CO poisoning, most coroners would not see the body until some hours after death, so its understandable that they would record that as an observation to determine cause of death. However, immediate witnesses are much less likely to see this colouration. The colouration takes time because it is a chemical process. The time to onset of the redness of the skin can can vary according to the dose and the length of time to which the victim was exposed. A long period low dose leading to death (rather than a short period high dose) would result in a quicker discolouration after death because there has been more time for the chemical process to take place.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 02:01 AM   #375
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
I would include those deaths as kills because the Nazi's weren't actually trying to keep any of those people alive. If it were a real refugee camp ravaged by disease, maybe. But there was no "resettlement," it was all just slavery and murder.
Deniers point to there was a lot of work in camps to keep people alive with actions to stop disease and hospitals. They ask, why have hospitals when the plan was supposedly to kill everyone? But as you say, it was just to keep the slaves working.
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Old 24th October 2017, 08:32 AM   #376
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
To me "killed" means murdered, so that is those who were gassed or shot.
Those Jews who died of enforced disease and starvation both in ghettos and in camps are included in most of the death statistics I know of - e.g., Hilberg who has a category he calls "Ghettoization and general privation." A reading of the diary of young Dawid Sierakowiak, with its brutal description of privation and starvation, or of the conditions in the Gammelblocks at Majdanek will reinforce this point. IMO. German Judenpolitik are responsible for these deaths; similar thinking can apply to the casualties caused by Germany's ally Romania in the Transnistria. As is well known, Hilberg estimates at least 5.1m deaths in excess of "normal" deaths including the ghetto privation totals and all-in totals from the camps without breaking out shooting or gassing in them.
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Old 24th October 2017, 01:48 PM   #377
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At "Counterpunch" a far left website,there is a spate of articles trying to whitewash the Pol Pot regime. There tactics and methods...surprise,surprise,....strongly resemble those of the Holocaust deniers.
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Old 29th October 2017, 06:05 PM   #378
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
At "Counterpunch" a far left website,there is a spate of articles trying to whitewash the Pol Pot regime. There tactics and methods...surprise,surprise,....strongly resemble those of the Holocaust deniers.
So do the arguments of 9-11 “Truthers.”
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Old 31st October 2017, 01:20 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by LemmyCaution View Post
Those Jews who died of enforced disease and starvation both in ghettos and in camps are included in most of the death statistics I know of - e.g., Hilberg who has a category he calls "Ghettoization and general privation." A reading of the diary of young Dawid Sierakowiak, with its brutal description of privation and starvation, or of the conditions in the Gammelblocks at Majdanek will reinforce this point. IMO. German Judenpolitik are responsible for these deaths; similar thinking can apply to the casualties caused by Germany's ally Romania in the Transnistria. As is well known, Hilberg estimates at least 5.1m deaths in excess of "normal" deaths including the ghetto privation totals and all-in totals from the camps without breaking out shooting or gassing in them.
Is there any figures for deaths broken down into -

Einsatzgruppen shootings
AR camp gassings
T4 gassings
Disease in camps & ghettos
Executions (escapers, camp discipline etc)
Death marches
Starvation

or categories like that?
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Old 2nd November 2017, 05:03 AM   #380
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Nessie, I haven't seen a comprehensive breakdown at the level of detail you are asking for. For Majdanek, I've looked at gassing vs shooting vs privation, and come up with between 15,000 and 20,000 estimate gassing death (the USHMM gives a higher estimate but I haven't been able to figure out why).

Of course Birkenau would be very different from Majdanek - at Birkenau there were about 600,000 deemed unfit on arrival and gassed straightaway; to these must be added those selected inside the camp, as Muselmänner or in the Gypsy and family camp actions - this number is unknown to me. At Chełmno, Sobibór, Bełzec, and Treblinka nearly all would have been gassed with some 1000s of sick/infirm/weak shot on arrival.

T4 didn't involve Jews per se, of course, but over 70,000 victims were gassed or killed by means of injection during the official so-called euthanasia program (Sept '39 - Aug '41), with IIRC over more 100,000 murdered, most often by injection or other use of drugs, during the so-called wild euthanasia that followed.

Blatman and Wachsmann would give estimates for the number who died during the death marches and camp liquidations - but, again, the death marches killed KL prisoners in general and were not aimed at Jewish liquidations, so caution is needed here. Yad Vashem gives a figure of up to 250,000 deaths during such actions in the final 10 months of the war, with 1/3 of the victims being Jews.

OTOH 14f13, an extension of the so-called euthanasia to the KLs beginning in spring 1941, targeted Jews along with asocials and political prisoners IIRC. Perhaps as many as 20,000 were killed, both inside the KLs and at the T-4 killing centers, in Aktion 14f13.

Here is the spreadsheet I've made for myself at a higher level. It's based on Hilberg with tweaks from HC articles and various other sources. Btw Gerlach's most recent book is another good source on causes of mortality during these events. I am sure there are better compilations of deaths than my own note taking but this is what I have handy:


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Old 3rd November 2017, 02:52 AM   #381
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Thanks for that. By mobile killings, is that the Einsatzgruppen?
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Old 3rd November 2017, 03:47 AM   #382
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Thanks for that. By mobile killings, is that the Einsatzgruppen?
And Order Police, Wehrmacht, Waffen-SS, plus collaborator police. The 2 million figure would also include mass shootings carried out by the Romanian Army and police, plus pogroms.

The Einsatzgruppen in the strict sense claimed only 633,000 victims, as per the Korherr report, which fits with the earlier Einsatzgruppen reports, but these show for example that Einsatzgruppe A didn't claim the Rumbula massacres outside Riga in 1941; their reports mentioned Rumbula but the credit for the bodycount was given to Jeckeln (HSSPF Ostland).

One problem with Hilberg's conception of mobile killings is that he doesn't really factor in Poland to his estimate of this figure, but presents his estimate at the end of his chapter on the USSR. But there were extensive mass shootings by units that can be considered 'mobile', because they moved from town to town, such as the famous Police Battalion 101 in the Lublin district, across both western and eastern Poland. So many ghetto and camp deaths as counted by Hilberg were actually shooting deaths.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 04:31 AM   #383
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Thanks for that. By mobile killings, is that the Einsatzgruppen?
Einsatzgruppen + Waffen SS, troops of the HSSPFs, police battalions, Wehrmacht, local collaborators like Shaulists in Lithuania and Arajs commando in Latvia, etc (also Romanian military units); the shorthand is "Einsatzgruppen" but the reality is a more expansive list of units perpetrating these execution actions.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 01:06 PM   #384
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Thanks. I was not aware that from Korherr;

"In addition there are the figures of the Main Reich Security Office for the evacuation of the Jews from the Russian territories including the formerly Baltic countries since the beginning of the Eastern campaign - 633, 300"

was with reference to mobile killings. I just used it to question denier claims of resettlement in the Russian east, when Korherr was claiming Jews had been evacuated from the area.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 03:08 PM   #385
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The most recent scholarship is the percentage of victims of the Holocaust who were killed outside the extermination camps is much greater then originally thought;probably around a Million and a half died at the hands of "Mobile" killing units.
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Old 4th November 2017, 04:20 AM   #386
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Thanks. I was not aware that from Korherr;

"In addition there are the figures of the Main Reich Security Office for the evacuation of the Jews from the Russian territories including the formerly Baltic countries since the beginning of the Eastern campaign - 633, 300"

was with reference to mobile killings. I just used it to question denier claims of resettlement in the Russian east, when Korherr was claiming Jews had been evacuated from the area.
Linking the 633,000 figure with the Einsatzgruppen is standard, e.g. in Hilberg 2003, pp.1315-6.

There were no deportations to camps from the 'Russian territories', which meant the Ostministerium + military administration zones, and the two Korherr reports, long and short, mention the Bialystok and Galicia districts elsewhere. Deportations in 1942 from the Bialystok and Galicia districts would not have added up to 633,000 anyway, and it would have been strange if the RSHA ignored the USSR entirely.

The Korherr report states that the figure for the Russian territories is incomplete, which means that HSSPF-claimed bodycounts are not included, nor are the Kommandostab RFSS actions of e.g. the SS-Cavalry Brigade; HSSPFs like Jeckeln and Pruetzmann reported directly to Himmler. Thus Meldung 51, submitted by HSSPF Ukraine, with 361,000 Jews reported as executed, is not in the 633,000 figure.

Korherr doesn't claim to have been given access to the Einsatzgruppen reports, which were a mess statistically. Gestapo Mueller had to order the Einsatzgruppen in July 1942 to keep precise count of executions along standardised lines.
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Old 4th November 2017, 05:18 AM   #387
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The most recent scholarship is the percentage of victims of the Holocaust who were killed outside the extermination camps is much greater then originally thought;probably around a Million and a half died at the hands of "Mobile" killing units.
The scholarship isn't that recent, since it's been generally understood in the field for 25 years or so, and the number killed in mass shootings is recognised as more than 2 million across Poland, the USSR and Serbia.
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Old 15th November 2017, 08:51 PM   #388
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I am a Holocaust Denier

I didn't know that there was a rule that you had to make 15 posts before you could put links in your posts when I joined. When I joined, I really just wanted to make a ruckus on the skeptic forum by posting this thread. Anyway, I've made 15 posts, so now I can finally have my fun. Here it is.

I will prove by contradiction that the official Holocaust story is false.

Claim: Hitler came up with the idea of holocausting 6 million Jews
Assumption: Causes precede effects
Assumption: This article exists https://www.radioislam.org/islam/eng...-Palestine.gif
Assumption: The Nazis started murdering Jews in 1941

The article from assumption 2 shows that the allied media had knowledge of the holocaust before Hitler did, and together with assumption 1, that proves that Hitler is not the cause of the holocaust. Therefore, the mainstream story about the holocaust is false.

Personally, before I found these articles, I got to the point where I saw that somebody must be lying about the holocaust. Either people like David Irving, David Cole, or Fred Leuchter were lying, or the mainstream news media were lying about them lying. The evidence that they were presenting was too straightforward to be misinterpreted if they were telling the truth. It became much easier for me to believe the holocaust deniers after I saw proof that the mainstream media had a long history of lying about the holocaust.

What I presented above is already sufficient proof, but I will offer more:

Other occurrences of holocausts of 6 million Jews in major newspapers prior to WW2. You can still find these articles in the archives of the New York archives. Go check yourself if you don’t believe me. http://balder.org/judea/Six-Million-...ials-Began.php

Testimonies of Jews about swimming pools, movie theaters, and soccer fields at Auschwitz. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtlPlZGvgY0

Fake Holocaust photos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8djIHQS4kyQ

An interesting coincidence:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...0576/image.jpg

Historical records of populations:
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-8xFQdkdU6...ures%2B002.JPG

The Red Crosse's record of holocaust victims:
http://truedemocracyparty.net/wp-con.../auschwitz.jpg

Hitler’s multicultural army:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUoOJEidm2o



Modern evidence showing that the media is controlled:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhgVbbDBJ24

Really if you pay attention, you should be able to tell that the news media is controlled by yourself. I figured it out on my own several years before I started looking at conspiracy theories online and found out that it was the Jews behind it. I could write several pages about my observations of the media, such as how all of the news sites talk about the same thing at the same time, how they avoid talking about real issues, how the media helps the US government lie about wars, and how one can predict future policy and wars by studying the current propaganda in the news, etc. But it would take a while, and I don’t have the patience for it.
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Old 15th November 2017, 08:54 PM   #389
theprestige
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Cool story, bro.
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Old 15th November 2017, 11:20 PM   #390
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Originally Posted by ShamelessGit View Post
Claim: Hitler came up with the idea of holocausting 6 million Jews
False

Originally Posted by ShamelessGit View Post
Assumption: Causes precede effects
False
Originally Posted by ShamelessGit View Post
False
Originally Posted by ShamelessGit View Post
Assumption: The Nazis started murdering Jews in 1941
False.

So have you anything to offer that is not false?
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Old 15th November 2017, 11:39 PM   #391
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Yawn. Here we go again.
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Old 16th November 2017, 12:00 AM   #392
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Originally Posted by ShamelessGit View Post
I will prove by contradiction that the official Holocaust story is false.
Can you prove it without youtube videos?

Originally Posted by ShamelessGit View Post
Claim: Hitler came up with the idea of holocausting 6 million Jews
Does someone else deserve the credit then?
Originally Posted by ShamelessGit View Post
Assumption: Causes precede effects
So?
Originally Posted by ShamelessGit View Post
So? Hadn't the lower case spelling of the term holocaust been around for a few years to describe the issues the jews were dealing with?
Originally Posted by ShamelessGit View Post
Assumption: The Nazis started murdering Jews in 1941
Who is claiming this?

Originally Posted by ShamelessGit View Post
The article from assumption 2 shows that the allied media had knowledge of the holocaust before Hitler did, and together with assumption 1, that proves that Hitler is not the cause of the holocaust. Therefore, the mainstream story about the holocaust is false.
You would have us believe that Hitler had no idea what was going on in his own country? Surely you are aware that the word "holocaust" is used for other than describing the final solution.

Originally Posted by ShamelessGit View Post
What I presented above is already sufficient proof, but I will offer more:
I think what you have presented sucks, that is a technical term by the way.

Originally Posted by ShamelessGit View Post
Other occurrences of holocausts of 6 million Jews in major newspapers prior to WW2. You can still find these articles in the archives of the New York archives. Go check yourself if you don’t believe me. http://balder.org/judea/Six-Million-...ials-Began.php
They're a joke if you think they refer to 6M people killed.

Originally Posted by ShamelessGit View Post
Lacks context.

Originally Posted by ShamelessGit View Post
Historical records of populations:
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-8xFQdkdU6...ures%2B002.JPG
Looks fake as the dates were obviously added later after the article was scanned.

Originally Posted by ShamelessGit View Post
The Red Crosse's record of holocaust victims:
http://truedemocracyparty.net/wp-con.../auschwitz.jpg
The only date I see is 1979. What is the origin of this scan and why do you think it is accurate?

Originally Posted by ShamelessGit View Post
Really if you pay attention, you should be able to tell that the news media is controlled by yourself.
Yes I control the media.

Originally Posted by ShamelessGit View Post
I figured it out on my own several years before I started looking at conspiracy theories online and found out that it was the Jews behind it.
Why not join them then? Seems they have a good union.

Originally Posted by ShamelessGit View Post
I could write several pages about my observations of the media, such as how all of the news sites talk about the same thing at the same time, how they avoid talking about real issues, how the media helps the US government lie about wars, and how one can predict future policy and wars by studying the current propaganda in the news, etc. But it would take a while, and I don’t have the patience for it.
Bolding mine.
Then it seems you lack the patience to persuade anyone of anything and you're probably wasting your time here if the above evidence is all you have.

Last edited by Ranb; 16th November 2017 at 12:02 AM.
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Old 16th November 2017, 12:46 AM   #393
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Originally Posted by ShamelessGit View Post
... Either people like David Irving, David Cole, or Fred Leuchter were lying,...
They are. Anything else you would like to know?
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Old 16th November 2017, 01:02 AM   #394
TubbaBlubba
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Mod InfoMerged with general Holocaust denial thread. While I'm sure there must be many novel aspects of this ever-productive subject to discuss, we appreciate if they are, as a rule, kept in one thread.
Posted By:TubbaBlubba
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Old 16th November 2017, 03:05 PM   #395
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Daft counter-arguments

I didn't put a whole lot of effort into it, because I was afraid that these were the kinds of answers I'd get.

How do I argue with someone who says that causes don't precede effects?

And it's the official mainstream story that the holocaust started in 1941. It's not hard to find. When you argue against that point, you're arguing against the mainstream position.

And no, these articles aren't jokes. I've read a dozen of them, and they have 6 million used in a variety of contexts, and a few of them actually are about 6 million Jews being killed, specifically in Russia.

I don't see any rebuttals that aren't either bland assertions, such as that holocaust deniers are liars without offering any evidence, or which don't say utterly nonsensical things, such as what I mentioned immediately above.
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Old 16th November 2017, 03:37 PM   #396
TubbaBlubba
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The Holocaust is in most but not all academic works taken to refer to the period of state-driven Jewish persecution of 1935-1945. For the mass killing events that began in 1941-42 the term "The Final Solution [to the Jewish Question]" is often used.
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Old 16th November 2017, 04:11 PM   #397
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Originally Posted by ShamelessGit View Post
I didn't put a whole lot of effort into it...

Random words...
You'll have to try harder.
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Old 16th November 2017, 04:24 PM   #398
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Originally Posted by ShamelessGit View Post
I didn't know that there was a rule that you had to make 15 posts before you could put links in your posts when I joined. [...].

TL;DR
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Old 16th November 2017, 05:35 PM   #399
LemmyCaution
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Originally Posted by ShamelessGit View Post
Claim: Hitler came up with the idea of holocausting 6 million Jews
Lost me here: I know of no one making such a claim, certainly not historians who research the Third Reich and the Holocaust.

Originally Posted by ShamelessGit View Post
Assumption: The Nazis started murdering Jews in 1941
Actually, Jews were murdered by National Socialists before 1941. In any case, these murders are not "assumptions" but conclusions drawn from evidence.

Originally Posted by ShamelessGit View Post
the mainstream news media . . . the mainstream media had a long history of lying about the holocaust.
Sorry, we do not know about this history through "the mainstream news media": we know about it by studying the evidence and through research done by historians and other scholars of the period.

The rest of what you post is old hat - long since debunked and explained, especially at Nizkor, HDOT, Holocuast Controversies, and forums like this one. You've posted nothing new and nothing interesting enough to warrant anything more than links to help you, such as, http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/.
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Old 16th November 2017, 06:45 PM   #400
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Originally Posted by ShamelessGit View Post
I didn't put a whole lot of effort into it
Clearly. You didn't even bother to state the arguments your opponents make accurately. And you simply regurgitated a few familiar HD cliches.

Originally Posted by ShamelessGit View Post
And it's the official mainstream story that the holocaust started in 1941. It's not hard to find.
I have no idea what you mean by "the official mainstream story." Would you be so kind as to show us where the so-called official mainstream story is found and who authorizes such an "official mainstream story." I ask especially because historians like Browning, Longerich, Gerwarth, Gerlach, Bauer, and others continue to debate when the Third Reich opted for a European-wide extermination of Jews - and historians like Cesarani prefer not using the term the Holocaust at all.
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